Cyclist aware drivers... are you one?

[seano87]

Well, how many of you consider yourself to be really cyclist aware?

I've been trying to get more into riding my bike to/from work lately, partially because I'm trying to be a bit more fit and active, and also because every time I drive the disco something else seems to go wrong! :p

Anyway, coming home this arvo, going around a roundabout, a woman had even stopped and hence I assumed she'd seen me (come on, white shirt, fluoro green backpack and all!), oh no, at the worst possible moment she accelerated and managed to slam into me side on, hit fair and square the exact middle of her grill. I got thrown up the bonnet then back off again as she hit the brakes and barrel rolled 4 times along the road.

I am actually fine, just some skin off the elbow, nothing else, bike is an absolute mess, about 2 inch warp on the back wheel, cracked gearset, crank bent under the frame. Woman was apologetic as hell, her husband even competes in road cycling races.

I guess the thing to take from it all is - maybe just be that little bit more aware when you're out and about driving, and look twice, it might be a fellow landy lover out there on a bike!!

Seano :cool:

[seano87]

Oh crap, i forgot the most important bit!!...

It dinted her shiny new Toyota :twisted:

[Treads]

I'm aware that most cyclists I come across are :censored: :wasntme:


But I'm glad you're okay :angel:

[weeds]

this post will liven things up a bit

i am very cyclist aware, it only takes a few moment of your time in your trip to work in with them

[Matman]

Glad your ok,BUT it makes it hard to avoid cyclists when your doing 100kays and you come over a crest of a hill and there sitting in the lane,and you have nowhere to go as there is a truck coming up the hill from the other direction,and the only way to avoid them is by hitting the grass up the inside of them,and make sure the traffic behind you doesnt run up your ass from braking so hard.

[Blknight.aus]

Im cyclist friendly. except for the ones that try the 3rd lane trick at traffic lights and knock my left hand mirror out of adjustment. They get the fumigator treatment for as many K's as I can manage or untill they offer to adjust the mirror for me.

[one_iota]

I give cyclists a wide berth and respect that they have to share the road with motor vehicles. The odds aren't in the cyclist's favour so I'm glad that the odds fell in yours.

Having said that I have taken to suggesting out of the window to the odd one or two that insist on riding without lights at night that they should spend a little bit of money on active life assurance. The LED lights for bikes are fantastic and make my trip home so much more relaxing as a motorist.

[seano87]

I'm aware that most cyclists I come across are :censored: :wasntme:


But I'm glad you're okay :angel:

Ahaha I actually know what you mean. I think some take the "road is there to share" message and miscontrue it as the cyclist can be absolutely oblivious to what goes on around them.

I actually ride a slightly longer route to work so I can do the majority of it on a bike path instead of being a royal nuisance taking up a lane on the road. Where it happened was on a roundabout that there isn't really another choice but to go on it, and she had even come to a complete stop as I was going around it. Ah well.

I wonder if anyone will chime in about how cyclists shouldn't be on the road since there's no rego fees or anything, which I think is actually a damn valid point - another reason I don't object to going a slightly longer route!!

[weeds]

I wonder if anyone will chime in about how cyclists shouldn't be on the road since there's no rego fees or anything, which I think is actually a damn valid point - another reason I don't object to going a slightly longer route!!

oh it will come.....they ride two abreast, they ride through red light, dont stop at stop signs, they are noisy at 5am in the morning riding past my house, they cannot maintain the posted speed limit

re: round abouts, when possible i get out into the middle of the lane when going round, this way you are in the line of vision of the person entering the round about as they normally don't look at the outer edge

[bee utey]

It's amazing what some motorists can't see, like road signs, stop lights etc. I was waiting to cross at a pedestrian light in the middle of a roadworks area and watched 3 cars travelling nose to tail right through the red light. Yelling abuse at the drivers finally got the 4th one to stop.

Sometimes I think a cyclist would be more visible wearing no clothes at all...

[CJT]

I am a cyclist and obviously drive as well.

I believe the point about cyclists not paying rego is a bit invalid given that the majority of adult cyclists would actually own atleast one car and therefore pay rego anyway and every day you dont drive that vehicle on the road you are helping reduce the maintenance costs to the pavement etc.

I too will ride in a lane through a roundabout for two reasons. One to hopefully be seen by other vehicles entering and also to stop vehicles trying to pass you on the roundabout.

I generally will not ride through a red light with the exception of early morning etc. through turn signals. A bike will not triger the signal so you never get a green arrow. I have seen many cyclists running red lights and almost being cleaned up, as usual its usually the minority that give the group a bad name. A bit the same as 4wding I guess.

Also, the best thing a cyclist can get is lights, but they have to be good quality ones. I run Ayup lights, they are Australian design and made. I run twin lights on the bars, twin lights on the helmet (drivers tend to see you when you shine the head mounted lights straight at them) and a set on the rear with red covers. These lights are visible for atleast 150 - 200m and actually work for lighting your way if there are no street lights.

Anyone that cycles a lot should check them out, there expensive but you can put them in the dishwasher to clean them if you want too.

[ScottW]

Considering I have had people try to merge into me and pull out directly in front of me whilst driving my MX5 and Gigantic white 110 county, I'm very careful on my bike.
Like others have said, I'll take a slightly longer, safer ride any day. I do how ever have some very very bright lights on the front of my bike for after the sun goes down. (and I'm waiting for the plod to tell me they are too bright)

Riding a bike on the road makes you very considerate to cyclists. Even if you do want to give some a serve for being dickheads.

[jerryd]

I think that truck drivers need educating when it comes to passing cyclists, how many times have you been behind a truck and then suddenly he swerves out to pass a cyclist with no indication :eek: As you are behind the truck, 9 out of ten times you don't see the cyclist until the truck pulls out.

The same goes for most car drivers too, why can't you signal that you are passing a cyclist ?? and let other road users know that there is a cyclist ahead. "THINK BIKE" and no I'm not a cyclist

As a teenager, I had two friends who didn't get a chance to live out their lives, thanks to two truck drivers.

[abaddonxi]

oh it will come.....they ride two abreast, they ride through red light, dont stop at stop signs, they are noisy at 5am in the morning riding past my house, they cannot maintain the posted speed limit

re: round abouts, when possible i get out into the middle of the lane when going round, this way you are in the line of vision of the person entering the round about as they normally don't look at the outer edge

It's just too quiet in Queensland.:D

[John W]

I can get around a round about, about as quick on my bike as a P plater in a WRX and cars just don't expect that so you get to assume that they are going to hit you and so you make allowances to be able to stop in mid flight around the things for those drivers. A mate I ride with had to come to a screeching stop one day in his car as I rode around one, that cost him!

Truck drivers, nothing! Try coach drivers, they would have to be schooled in how to kill cyclists.

Two abreast, well that is legal in NSW. Suck it up.

Over the crest at 100k and nowhere to go to avoid the cyclists? What if it was a cow on the road or a great hole or your mothers car broken down or a horse and cart or tractor or roo or your child who had run onto the road to wave to the cyclists... If you are going over a crest at a speed that you can not stop in the visible road then slow down!

[Didge]

Well here ya go guys I'll tell ya the truth about what I think. Whilst I like the idea of being able to ride to work for the exercise and minimising pollution, etc. I think cyclists who ride on main roads especially during peak hours are generally selfish and arrogant and have some sort of inate death wish; I do sympathise with anyone who has known or lost a friend, relative, etc on the roads, I'm not a heartless bastard. And before you get up in arms, I say generally, obviously not all riders are this way. But for the life of me I can't understand why the wannabe Lance Armstrong, brightly clad lycra brigade devotees think they have every right to toddle along at 25 - 30 kmh in a 70 or 80 zone and hold up multitudes of people who have planned to get to their destination in a certain time without being held up by cyclists. Woud they like to be stuck behind a rollerskater for kms on end? What would they think or say if some clown just decided to drive a car at a speed that was well below their optimum travelling speed?; ya can get booked for that! If they're after exercise why not take the backstreets? No, it nearly always has to be the main roads doesn't it?! I'm sick to death of seeing cyclists two abreast in a car lane and ignoring the cycle lane. As for saying they already pay rego on their cars, yeah great argument; why don't we all drive an unregistered boat, motorbike or another car and claim we've already paid rego on the first car. I've personally had a car damaged (punched) by a cyclist because I blew the horn at the bastard and I'll break the mongrel's neck if I ever see him again. Because he had no ID I couldn't take it any further. In part it is the government's fault because they promote cycling and then provide dangerous avenues for cycling that die out at lights and roundabouts but the arrogance of a large number of cyclists perpetuates the hostility between drivers and cyclists. As for lights on bikes on busy roads at night; sorry guys but you generally just blend into the background although the new era of lights are much better. Also it is not always the drivers fault. We need cycleways separated from roads that actually lead places not only part of the way. Now I'll sit back and wait for the backlash.

[Chad]

Im CYCLIST AWARE...

Aware they are all a PACK OF *******....

I believe if they are OLD enough to drive, then its there choice to ride, and there fore PAY REGO and Follow the road rules...

How many times do we see them HOGGING the road, to come to a RED light, then they, vere off, across the PEDESTRIAN crossing(on side street) and the keep going..

Imagine I did that in my car?

They can all **** off the lot of them...

And in CANBERRA, where alot of my work is done, they think its COLL to ride these Stupid Contrapions, that have 3 or 4 wheels, lay flat on the road almost and out of my truck cannot even see them??? Who do they think they are..

And to top it off, I had one rider who obvioulsy can follow road rules, DIDN"T want to remove his Clips from pedals, so at a red light, decided to lean against my truck, to hold himself up?? I almost pushed the ****ER off his bike after an argument..

The only thing I am aware of now, is how excited I get, when during or after heavy rain, I can SPRAY the *******, from puddles of water

who probably ride to work to save the PLANET, then sit under air con all day, take numerous Plane trips a year and sleep with the lights on...not to mention the washing they do for their kids PRIVATE SCHOOL UNIFORMS, ETC... Etc.. etc...

I am one for saving the PLANET trust me, I try my best NOT TO BE A HYPOCRITE, but as pointed out by lots and lots of reasearch, if a person takes ONE plane trip per year, that poluttes back into the PLANET far more than ANY household can save, even if they uwere completey green, and used all rainwater etc...

So I hope these ******* remember that when booking the INTERNATIONAL travel, next time, after clogging OUR MAIN ROADS....

[CJT]

I agree with some of your points, cycleways that actually make sense would be great but unless every road had a cycleway all points will never be connected without a cyclist being on a road. I think an offroad cycleway along the highway routes would be good and used regularly say within 50km of capital cities. The only issue then is that you are building more infrastructure that needs to be maintained by our rates and taxes. You could try and get the users to pay but then you have adults, children and pensioners using the infrastructure but they can not all pay. The money always has to come from somewhere and I dont think raising rates etc. would be met with much enthusiasm.

As far as the argument on registration, my point is on why a fee should be paid by a cyclist given that they are not, while riding their bike contributing significant loads on the pavement and the effect these have on the pavements life and the roads life etc. I pay rego for my LR and that money is meant to go back into the road to pay for maintenance and so forth on the roads that I have been using and effecting with my 2.5t vehicle. A bike with rider, in my case total weight of 85 - 90kg with bike included has no impact in comparison.

Extra room on roads would be good but you still have issues with drivers that are oblivious to cyclists, not to mention pedestrians, motorcycles, small cars and generally anyone other than themselves.

I have been cut of, side swiped, had cans thrown at me (I was not in the lane or in anyones way) I can travel through a roundabout faster than most cars so dont hold them up and can travel comfortably at 35 - 40km/hr over a long commute. Being stuck behind a cyclist is negligable in peak hour traffic especially since a cyclist most times through suburbs can get to their destination quicker than a vehicle will.

Just my thoughts anyway.

[John W]

[QUOTE=Chad;1277395]Im CYCLIST AWARE...

Aware they are all a PACK OF *******....

Hi Chad

Some of the chicks I ride with are pretty hot, not real sure of all of their individual habits but I can ask if it helps? As for the guys???. I guess a young bloke like you would have no problem controlling your hormonal urges.

[Chad]

Sorry mate NO GOOD For me, I couldn't stand the TYPE.......

Thanks for the offer though....




The question I have is its your choice to RIDE and not use your car??



We have 5 vehicles Registered, between my wife and I, should we ONLY have to pay rego for 2 of them? Seen as how we can only drive ONE each at any given time??

Anyway, it will never happen, I was just having a Rant in my previous POST..

Maybe if the Majority of Cyclist weren't Arrogant *******, there wouldn't be so much anomosity between them??

I hate to say but I think THAT is the problem and it will take alot to change...

I understand that alot of people probably do the right thing whilst riding, and I have nothing against someone going for a ride, with there partner/kids/family etc..

Its these Lycra weraring Imbeciles that think the road is theirs, that are what is causing all the problems??

Same as the ROAD racers etc... or GROUP RIDES??

Its states in your Drivers hanbook, you need to study to get your licence, that if you are behind a vehicle that is traveling BELOW the speed limit, and you do not want to PASS, then leave enoguh room for the vehicles behind you to pass, yourself, and then the SLOWER vehicle when SAFE to do so??

How can you DISOBEY the Rules/edicate of the ROAD, then complain that EVERYONE hates you and blame the anomosity on them??

I have respect for the bike riders, who OBEY the road rules, and respect others...

[John W]

Would agree with much of what you say, just seems you are just a little over excited about it all

I Best get to bed so I can be out at 5.30 for a ride!

[Chad]

Have fun...

Single file remember....

RESPECT... like the SONG.

Say hi to those girls..

Bit hard to tell with you all wearing the same CLOTHES... make sure your not behind a GUY...

Anway I will appreciate thats its you and not me when I get into my truck, with the WARM heater on... going past the CYCLISTS, who are getting fit, and eating a BIG MAC for lunch, then THROWING A TANTIE, cause they never got diet COKE or SKIM milk with there 17 Coffee for the day...

[rick130]

[snip]

Maybe if the Majority of Cyclist weren't Arrogant *******, there wouldn't be so much anomosity between them??


[snip]


Change 'cyclist' for '4WD' and you'd fit right in with a lot of peoples attitude in the city :D

Generalisations and stereotypes don't really help anyone......

[CraigE]

Yep ride a pushy and a motor bike so more than aware of the problems and lack of vision of some people.
However a lot of cyclists are their own worst enemy. Biggest issue is not giving way to cars, expecting cars to give way and not using bike lanes. Groups of riders are the worst, not giving way or room.
Annoys me no end when they are two or three abreast, blocking tarffic and will not merge to single file or use the bike path 2 metres away.
A few weeks ago driving on a highway at 100kmph with nice bike lane on the edge of the road, group of bikes, several two wide (which is legal), plenty of room in the lane for this, but one tosser had to ride outside the line. Well at 100kmph on a dual carriageway and another car right alongside us, I had nowhere really to go and I know what I was going to hit and it was not going to be the car on my right. Luckily I squeezed through because there was no way I would have been able to stop, Did give him a blast on the hooter and a few choice words.

[Quarks]

I like to think I am.
Well, I was a cyclist until the day a car decided to take up all but 2m of my stopping space, and promptly jam on the brakes to miss the car in front of it, which suddenly slowed to turn into a driveway. :( I think my nose has grown back into one piece now. ;)

One thing that surprised me when I was learning to drive a truck (HR) was just how similar the two vehicle types were in terms of acceleration and braking. Both require more distance, and are much more sensitive to the gradient than other traffic.

Anyway, just like cars, trucks and motorbikes, once one figures out how they are likely to behave, it's not hard (for a perfectionist :p) to be accommodating and drive for them.

:)

[RoverP6B]

I am a cyclist and have been so for 32 years. For 30 or those years I have been riding in Sydney traffic. Distance wise I cover in the order of 20,000km per year, and have done so pretty consistantly for the past 12 years. I have raced nationally so I can appreciate what is required in terms of the required training. To be competitive, 400 to 500km each and every week of the year at the bare minimum is pretty much where you need to be.

The law allows cyclists to ride two abreast (side by side) and to occupy an entire lane, so they are not doing anything which is illegal in this regard. I am also a motorist and have been so for a smiliar period of time. Sydney's traffic levels are now such that I will avoid main roads as much as I can when riding, there are just too many cars, too many people in too much a hurry.

I have been knocked down at a round-a-bout, even though I was already within and had the right of way. I have had a number of near misses over the years, and in the vast majority of cases, the motorist is at fault.

If the law required all motorists to ride a bike for 6 years in all manner of traffic prior to being eligible for obtaining a driver's license, then the negative attitude that some people have towards cyclists would be so very different indeed.

A cyclist could be your son or daughter, your brother or sister, what attitude would you like other motorists to have towards your family members?

Ron.

[brizmatt]

I am always surprised by the animosity that comes up when someone mentions cycling in a forum. Other parts of the world that I have driven/cycled in- everyone is treated with respect, in Australia it seems we have to hate someone who is doing something we don't do- cycling, 4WDs, trucks etc. I have even met people with a pathological hate for cyclists whose kids ride bikes- bizarre. I have not heard of an instance where a car driver was killed by a collision with a cyclist but regularly hear of cyclists being killed by collisions with cars- rarely the cyclists fault in law but still the same outcome.

But, I do regularly commute to work on a cycle and by far the majority of other road users are respectful. I don't really care if cyclists go through red lights (I don't) as they are the ones that get hurt- not the car drivers. I understand that car drivers aren't always expecting cyclists, especially when the cyclist is travelling a lot faster than the cars so I take responsibility that I am seen as much as I can. And, when I am driving, if a cyclists pulls up next to me, I tell them they can lean on my car- why would I care. Not something I would ever do as a cyclist but doesn't harm me at all if others do it.

One trick I have when I commute is that whilst I ride a flash bike, I wear a pair of stubbies and an old t-shirt. Even though I ride the same as I did when I wore lycra, I get a lot less hassles. I assume that people feel a bit sorry for me in thinking that I have lost my licence or car and have no choice but to cycle!!!

Cheers

Brizmatt

[windsock]

Cyclists and traffic - been there done that - both ways.

As an older student at Uni a few years back I cycled everywhere and being a Uni town, the traffic was somewhat used to cyclists but I still had my share of knock-downs. I went through three bikes in the 10 years at Uni.

What a lot of motorists do not realise, is the amount of dangerously sharp debris that builds up on the side of the road - glass, sharp metals, and stuff that at times forces the cyclist to ride wider than otherwise needed. This seems to be especially bad on corners where the debris gets concentrated by motorists tyres etc.

If you do not believe me, get out of your cars and walk a few kilometres along a busy roadway. Glass and Uni towns are the same as beach towns and babes - always on the look out... :angel:

On the motorists side now, and I travel some quiet windy backcountry roads often. A lot of cyclists also use these roads as weekend training grounds and are sometimes in bunchs of up to 12-15 riders. I sometimes have to wait for a few minutes (as a courtesy) for them to sort themselves out into some sembleance of single file. If after a reasonable amount of time, I get pushy and start the down shift and lean on the horn. The message gets through but sometimes I wonder how some of them ever get back home with some of their antics.

They are public roads and are a common ground. Differences in opinion of entitlement are always to happen in common areas.

[wovenrovings]

I ride to work. Although the traffic in bundaberg is considerably less than say sydney, there is a lot of drivers that seem to be asleep at the wheel. That said I ride a mountain bike and don't have much trouble. I think going slower gives people time to work out what should do. One think that is scary is the people that come in really close as they go by (going the same direction as me). I don't know whether it is target fixation (drive where they look) or they are trying to frighten me but it isn't very nice. Specially if it is a bus and it has crossed the white line to go by a foot away. Also a lot of people need to learn where they are driving. 4wders are pretty good, because if you don't learn this the sides of your 4wd get pretty dinted. But so many people don't specially when it comes to cutting corners. On the corner near my house cars regularly go around the corner completely to the left (inside of the corner) of the white line, even the police cars.
I also think that there should be some better sort of education or something for people about the rules and commonsense of riding a bike on the road. For example don't right the wrong way down the road at night with no lights whereing black! I have seen (just) this many times here. You are likely to get run over by a car or another bike.
Dan.

[Milhouse]

I cycle to work, not far - Randwick to Bondi - and its actually quicker than driving! Especially when getting a park is taken into account. Of course it helps that it is predominantly downhill. :D (Takes a wee bit longer on the way home but good for fitness!

It amazes me the number of cars that barge their way past me in order to accelerate up to the red lights ahead - where I invariably catch up and get past them again. I agree that it is very annoying to car drivers (and probably pedestrians) that some cyclists seem to feel that they can change between pedestrian and road user at will and completely ignore Red Lights if it suits them and I try to obey all road rules - however I do admit to using the 'third lane' from time to time in traffic queues though I am very careful not to clip wing mirrors ;).

On roundabouts I have been honked twice and abused when the person ON the roundabout stopped as I approached! I guess they thought I was going to suicide into them when I was just going to merge onto the roundabout as they passed... (As a pom I feel that in general Aussie drivers are not that good at roundabouts! :p)

Also painting a few lines on the side of the road or pavement often does not make for a good cycle lane so they is no real option but to ride on the road for many journeys.

Anyway watch for cyclists and lets all keep safe on the roads. :)

[Redback]

Glad your ok,BUT it makes it hard to avoid cyclists when your doing 100kays and you come over a crest of a hill and there sitting in the lane,and you have nowhere to go as there is a truck coming up the hill from the other direction,and the only way to avoid them is by hitting the grass up the inside of them,and make sure the traffic behind you doesnt run up your ass from braking so hard.

This is a two way street, cyclist need to be aware of there suroundings as well, sitting 2 a breast in a 100k zone is not the safest or brightest thing to do.

I nearly cleaned up 2 cyclist at the beginning of a trip because of this, 2 a breast on a blind corner over a crest in a 100k zone and a car coming the other way, do you know how hard it is to brake and swerve with a camper on at 100k:twisted::twisted: now if I had hit them, I would have been the badest bastard in the world and also I would have had to live with this as well, having been involed in an accident involving a fatality it's not something I want to go through again.

Oh and yes I give them a wide birth, but sometimes the cyclist don't make it easy.

Baz.

[86mud]

I ride 20kms each way to work in Brisbane (from Gumdale to Milton) each day - 200kms per week.

The ride involves a mixture of a dedicated bike lane on the shoulder of a road (Wynnum road) and bike paths. I ride a mountain bike with nobbly tyres because I try and make my ride "interesting" as I find road riding boring. I have been riding mountain bikes for 20 years (including competitions)...and love riding in the bush.

I choose to ride to work as it only takes me 45 minutes by bike in peak hour traffic...By Car - up to 1 hour and 40 minutes (the worst) each way. Plus I don't like leaving my car at an unknown place unsecured. I have spent too much money on it.

Now, I am a very cautious rider and I know there are some idiots on bikes that should be removed from the gene pool. Same as car drivers. Each day I average at least 2 close shaves. Today I was cut off by a person turning left, then a car pulled up along side of me then moved passed me and pulled into a car park. I had to take evasive action by jumping the kerb. This car now sports a fist imprint in the drivers door.

It really ****es my off at the way some drivers treat bike riders. I also find P platers are bad as they can not judge distance and speed.

I agree that some road cyclists push the boundaries and can be really annoying/dangerous. I don't really know a solution apart from separation - dedicated bike lanes keeping bikes out of the traffic.

The other gripe I have is some bike riders who have very bright lights...in dark sections of the bike paths in Brisbane (beside the river) an oncoming bike with very bright (new type LED's) lights will blind you. An incident occured in front of me 2 weeks ago when a guy in front of me was blinded by the bright light of an oncoming cyclist and he turned into the path of that cyclist...they collided and ended up in the river. A fight then broke out and it was on for young and old. Just totally unnecessary if cyclists with bright lights had them focused down rather then straight ahead.

I guess it's just typical selfish human behaviour - not understanding the consequences/implications of your own actions.

Cheers
Andrew

[p38arover]

Bike riders who want to use my car to hold themselves upright at the lights are just plain rude.

[bee utey]

The other gripe I have is some bike riders who have very bright lights...

The advantage of a bright helmet mounted light is being able to be both courteous to other road users by being able to aim the light away quickly, and you can fry the retinas of peanuts who are intent on running you down. My Niterider HID light makes oncoming drivers dip their headlights, then I aim low until they go by. Some turkeys think, oh it's only a bike and go high beam again, they get another dose. With three power levels and LED's I can tailor the light output to the ride conditions quite well without being rude to innocent bystanders.

[RaZz0R]

Well, how many of you consider yourself to be really cyclist aware?

Anyway, coming home this arvo, going around a roundabout, a woman had even stopped and hence I assumed she'd seen me (come on, white shirt, fluoro green backpack and all!), oh no, at the worst possible moment she accelerated and managed to slam into me side on, hit fair and square the exact middle of her grill. I got thrown up the bonnet then back off again as she hit the brakes and barrel rolled 4 times along the road.

Seano :cool:

Mate - as it is an intersection are you not required to get off your bike & walk it across??

After being a fulltime motorcycler rider for 13 odd years I can tell you that most - not all push bike riders are :censored:!!!!

They do not dismount when they should to cross roads, they cause massive problems here in the city as car drivers can't drive well enough to drive past them, they ride up in my local hills where motorcycler riders go & they take up the whole lane on a mountain rd but complain if they nearly get hit - then there are the dick's who take whole lanes on 3 lane way roads & ride right across merging lanes & wonder why they nearly get hit.

Do ya self a favour - and for everyone else & use the bike pathway's where you can & dismount off your bike to cross intersections - you will live longer :D

[p38arover]

I'm pretty tolerant of cyclists but I do get annoyed with riders who wear all black at night and top that off with no lights. I've nearly cleaned a few up over the years.

The you get those who do have lights that are so feeble that they aren't seen until one is upon them.

[RoverP6B]

RAZzor wrote,...
Mate - as it is an intersection are you not required to get off your bike & walk it across??

The law does not require any cyclist to dismount at any intersection or round-a-bout, just as the law allows riders to take up an entire lane if they so choose to do so.

Australian drivers and especially those in Sydney are known internationally as being very negative towards cyclists, a similar sitution exists in the United States. European countries on the other hand are the complete opposite. In the Netherlands for example, cyclists have right of way over all forms of road transport. The same applies to pedestrians, they too must give way to cyclists.

Back in Australia, the reason most riders will choose when riding in groups or with just another rider to occupy an entire lane is that believe it or not,..it is safer than riding single file. On a busy road riding single file allows motorists, trucks etc to drive past often too close and with speed which is more than dangerous.

Just as a motorist has every right to drive on every road, so a cyclist has every right to ride on every road, except on an expressway where it is so marked.

With 60% or the population overweight or obese, it is a pity that more people don't get off their fat backsides and hop on a bike and start riding. You will see just how unfit you really are, not to mention getting a first hand example of what it feel like to ride not only along a quite suburban street, but to also ride across intersections and along a busy road.

I guarantee if you do, your attitude will change and change for the better, assuming of course you don't get run over for riding too close to the gutter or flattened at an interesection.

Ron.

[Rudolf]

Bike riders who want to use my car to hold themselves upright at the lights are just plain rude.
Just before the rider leans onto your car edge a bit foreward.:twisted:
A fall is imminent.

I have also been ont the recieving end while cycling. Broken hand was the result.

A quaintence lost his son recently whlie he was out training.
A vehicle hit him from behind at full speed killing him instantly.
This happened on a remote road, wide with little traffic in the emergency lane where the kid was cycling and the car driving.
RIP Adam!!!

[Rudolf]

RAZzor wrote,...
Australian drivers and especially those in Sydney are known internationally as being very negative towards cyclists, a similar sitution exists in the United States.
The same applies to pedestrians, they too must give way to cyclists.

Ron.
South Africa beats the rest of world on this one. Come to Gauteng and see. (Pretoria and Johannesburg)
I am a cyclist and must say sometimes are ashamed to be one.
The club I belong too has some stricks rules regarding riding more than one abreast unless you are overtaking another rider.

The kids that was written about in my last post was the son of a founder member of the club.

[feral]

A quaintence lost his son recently while he was out training.
A vehicle hit him from behind at full speed killing him instantly.
This happened on a remote road, wide with little traffic in the emergency lane where the kid was cycling and the car driving.
RIP Adam!!!


And this is the very reason why I will not ride a bike period, on the road or not. :twisted:

The driving standards of this country is just pathetic and I do not know why governments are not affording cyclist more protection. Its just great being a vehicle driver.....'sorry officer, but I just didn't see him'. Your :censored: dead and the vehicle driver gets a minimum penalty. If you are unable to see a cyclist on the road and avoid it you shouldn't have a license.

Sorry, but I use to enjoy my time on a bike cruising down the road, but I want to live to a very old age.

[subasurf]

I'm aware that most cyclists I come across are :censored: :wasntme:


But I'm glad you're okay :angel:

Agreed

[Basil135]

Cyclists are usually the ones against paying for rego for their bikes. Aside from the "I can only drive 1 vehicle at a time arguments", every trailer I have also has to be registered.

The advantages of cyclist's being registered the policing of the road rules that a visible minority seem to flout. Add to this a "user pays" policy.

If I want to take my boat on its trailer to the river, I have to pay to have my trailer registered, and pay again to have my boat registered. Fair enough, even thou it may not move from my yard for 6 months of the year. If cyclists want bike lanes, then why shouldn't they contribute to them?

As for flouting the road laws, all road users must obey the road laws. This includes not passing on the left, not weaving between lanes, indicating when stopping or turning etc. How many cyclists do you see each day that simply ignore these rules?

Here is a scenario for you: Single lane road in each direction, with no marked bike lane. You are the 2nd or 3rd car in a line of traffic stopped at a red light. You are indending to turn left at the lights, and have your indicator on.

As the lights go green, the traffic moves off, and you commence your left turn. Unbeknown to you, a cyclist has come up on your left, and is sitting in your blind spot. As you turn left, you either cut the cyclist off, or worse, collect them & run over them.

So, who is at fault? The cyclist for passing on the left, and not keeping a proper look out, or the car driver for not paying due attention?

The point of all of this is that if cyclists want respect & equal rights, then they have to earn it, and contribute their fair share.

[CJT]

FYI at least in QLD

Roundabouts (s111, s119)
At roundabouts:

drivers who want to turn right at two-lane roundabouts are required to enter the roundabout and complete the turn, from the right hand lane
cyclists are exempt from this requirement and may enter the roundabout and complete a right hand turn from either the left lane or the right lane
cyclists, if they choose to make a right turn from the left lane, are effectively changing lanes each time they ride past an exit — as such, they must give way to any vehicle that is crossing their path to leave the roundabout.

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/image/468d46549e357442/Rules_image_one.gif
Cyclists may turn right from the right lane of two-lane roundabouts.


http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/image/468d46649e35744c/Rules_image_two.gif
Cyclists may also turn right from the left lane of two-lane roundabouts, but must give way to vehicles that cross their path.
Keeping left and overtaking (s129, s131, s151, s141)
You must:

ride as near as is safely possible to the far left side of the road — on a multi-lane road or a road with two or more lines of traffic travelling in the same direction as you, you can occupy a lane and travel in the right hand lane when necessary (for example, to make a right turn)
ride to the left of any oncoming vehicle
not overtake another vehicle on the left if that vehicle is turning left and giving a left change of direction signal
not ride more than two abreast unless overtaking
ride within 1.5 m of the other rider if riding two abreast.
Riding in a bicycle lane on a road (s247)
You should:

always use a bike lane where provided, unless it is impracticable to do so
never ride in a bike lane on the wrong side of the road (travelling towards oncoming traffic).
Riding in special purpose lanes (s153, s154, s155, s156)
You can:

ride in bicycle, tram, bus and transit lanes.
Riding on a separated path (s249)
On a separated path:

you can only ride on the side that is designated for cyclists.
Riding across a road on a crossing (s248)
You must:

never ride your bike across a pedestrian crossing, children's crossing or marked foot crossing (crossing with lights) unless there is also a bike light at the crossing.
dismount from your bike and walk across.
Riding on a footpath or shared path (s250)
You must:

keep left and give way to pedestrians on footpaths and shared-use paths.
Riding to the left of oncoming bicycle riders on a path (s251)
You must:

always ride your bike to the left of other riders coming towards you on a bikepath, footpath, separated path or shared path.
Riding on the footpath (s288)
In Queensland, cyclists of any age are allowed to:

ride on a footpath unless prohibited by a 'NO BICYCLES' sign — you must give way to pedestrians and ride in a manner that does not inconvenience or endanger other footpath users.
Obeying no bicycle signs and markings (s252)
You cannot:

ride on a road or footpath where bicycle signs or road markings specifically ban bikes.
Avoid being a traffic hazard (s253)
You must:

avoid becoming a hazard by riding into the path of a driver or pedestrian — this rule applies to all road users.
Bicycles being towed (s254)
You must not:

hold on to another moving vehicle while riding a bike.
Riding too close to the rear of a motor vehicle (s255)
You must:

maintain a distance of at least 2 m between you and the rear of a motor vehicle when following the motor vehicle for over 200 m.
Riding with a person in a bicycle trailer (s257)
You may tow a child in a bicycle trailer if:

you are 16 years or older
the child in or on the bicycle trailer is under 10 years old
the bicycle trailer can safely carry the child
the child in or on the bicycle trailer is wearing an approved bicycle helmet that is securely fitted and fastened.
Stopping for bicycle crossing lights (s260, s261, s262)
At bicycle crossing lights:

if the light is red, you must stop before reaching the light.
You must only cross at bicycle crossing lights when the light is green.
If bicycle crossing lights at an intersection change from green to yellow or red while you are in the intersection, you must cross the intersection by the safest most direct route.
Signalling (s46, s48)

Hand signals must be given when turning right.
Optional hook turn by a bicycle rider (s35)
You are able to turn right at an intersection on your bicycle using a hook turn (unless prohibited by a 'NO HOOK TURN BY BICYCLES' sign).

http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/image/468d46749e357453/Rules_image_six.gif

To do this:


Approach and enter the intersection on the far left side of the road you are leaving.
Move forward until you are as near the far side of the road you are entering. Keep as near as possible to the far left side of the intersection. Keep clear of any marked foot crossings. Keep clear of any driver turning left from the intersection.
If there are traffic lights at the intersection, wait until you are facing a green light before moving forward.
If there are no traffic lights on the intersection, give way to approaching drivers on the road you have just left, as required, then move forward.
Riding on or across a continuous white edge line (riding on the road shoulder) (s150)
You:

are allowed to cross a continuous white-edge line in order to ride along the road shoulder
must give way to vehicles on the roadway when moving back onto the road across the continuous white edge line.
Insecure or overhanging load (s292)
You must:

secure any loads to your bike in a way that does not cause the bike to be unstable
make sure the load does not stick out from the bicycle in a way that is likely to injure a person, obstruct the path of other drivers or pedestrians, or damage a vehicle or anything else
avoid hanging things off the handlebars.
Bicycles

Can I overtake to the left? (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/General_information/Cycling/Bike_user_guide/Road_rules_for_cyclists/#overtake)
Can I ride across a crossing? (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/General_information/Cycling/Bike_user_guide/Road_rules_for_cyclists/#crossing)
Can I ride on a road or footpath? (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/General_information/Cycling/Bike_user_guide/Road_rules_for_cyclists/#road_footpath)
What are the rules about bicycle trailers? (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/General_information/Cycling/Bike_user_guide/Road_rules_for_cyclists/#trailers)
What are the rules about bicycle storage areas? (http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/Home/General_information/Cycling/Bike_user_guide/Road_rules_for_cyclists/#storage)
Can I overtake to the left?
http://www.transport.qld.gov.au/resources/image/468d46949e428ac2/overtake.jpgBicycles can overtake to the left of a vehicle unless:

the vehicle is signalling to turn left
it is unsafe to do so.
A cyclist must give way to a vehicle that is signalling to turn left and driving in front of the cyclist.
Section 141(2) of the Queensland Road Rules applies.

[RoverP6B]

I have yet to ride on dedicated bike paths, although I know people who do.

As I mentioned in my previous post, 60% (it is actually more than that now) of men and women in Australia are either overweight or obese, so imposing a tax on a means (cycling) that may prevent a person from having a heart attack is not a particularly clever thing to do. People need to be encouraged to exercise, not the opposite. Cycling can be great exercise for improving your overall health, so how would imposing a tax such as some form of registration going to encourage people to take it up?

Would parents be happy to pay registration fees for their children's bikes? Would they still buy bikes for their children?

Common sense plays a part in any traffic scenario, unfortunately it is becoming less and less common, so accidents will happen time and time again. Unfortunately, the cyclist is often the innocent party and will always come off second best.

As I say, before any motorist chooses to criticise a cyclist, hop on a bike and go for a ride yourself. See and feel the hatred that is dished out towards you. If you are lucky you will arrive home in one piece, see if your attitude changes.

Ron.

[sam_d]

I love these kinds of discussions - it brings out so much ignorance and rage! :)

When a driver see a cyclist run a red light they instantly assume all cyclists are red-light-running idiots. Similarly, when a cyclist is run off the road by someone in a 4WD they instantly assume that all 4WD drivers are inconsiderate idiots.

Seeing minority behaviour and then tarring everone with the same brush is just reductive.

[rick130]

[snip]

The point of all of this is that if cyclists want respect & equal rights, then they have to earn it, and contribute their fair share.

Earn what right ?
Cyclsist have exactly the same rights as other road users under law
and most Adult cyclists pay their share, it's called taxation in it's many and varied forms.
A bike doesn't burn fossil fuels in use, it doesn't increase road wear and tear, it contributes positively by reducing the strain on the healthcare system (unless the rider is hit by a car)

Here's a thought.
Maybe we should have compulsory registration of all pedestrians, that'd be a fair 'user pays' system too, after all, not everyone uses a footpath and crosses a road.
And a toll on every foot bridge that crosses a major road, maybe a toll on each and every pedestrian crossing too.
Bugger it, why stop there, why not make all pedestrians and cyclists have a GPS embedded in the body and charge them per km of road and footpath used ?







It's such a shame all of this anger and hostility towards cyclists, you'd think 4Wders of all people would be a little more understanding and tolerant, not tarring everyone with the same brush.

As I said above, switch 'cyclist' for '4WDer' and we could be listening to the 'arguments' of the Scrubyites of the cities...... :(

[Dave_S]

The whole "cyclists should pay rego" thing always makes me laugh. Designing a system of rego for bikes would raise some interesting issues - someone above mentioned the millions of kids bikes for a start. Given the sheer number of bikes in use these days, the system would probably cost more to set up and run than it would raise in revenue. And cyclists would want to see something for the cash. Plus all the motorised whiners would have less to complain about, making their lives even more pitiable.

The other thing is that car/trailer/caravan/motorbike/truck/whatever-else rego doesn't generally pay for the roads. In most States it goes straight to the consolidated fund and is mixed with revenue from all other sources. It is then spent in whatever way the government of the day sees fit. So your rego is paying for things like hospitals (as used by cyclists), schools (for the children of cyclists) and wages (for cyclists who are public servants).

I ride 22 kms of paths, backstreets and the odd main road each way to work most days. I could cut that to 10 kms by just taking roads, but given the kind of self righteous, rednecked rage expressed above I prefer to take the long way. It's not that I think motorists have any more right to use the road than cyclists, it's just that so many motorists can't control their urges and become the school bully they always dreamed of being. I guess being able to throw your first punch with a few tonnes of metal helps you feel like less of a loser. Do you kick the dog on your way out the door too?

Obviously this kind of post isn't going to help people get along any better, but in this case there's no point. The hatred some people feel for cyclists is like racism - born of sheer bloody minded ignorance and virtually incurable. It's amazing how often people refer to the colour of cyclists' skin. I believe the word used is "lycra".

[bee utey]

Since when has paying rego given anyone the right to break road rules? Giving respect to pedestrians and cyclists is part of the rules. I see plenty of eejits in registered vehicles break road rules every day. I would go mad if I tried to report them all. This applies while I am driving or cycling.

I would happily pay bike rego if I was then suddenly given respect by the dunderheads who whine about all cyclists being ****s now. Can't see it happening though.

[CraigE]

I am a cyclist and have been so for 32 years. For 30 or those years I have been riding in Sydney traffic. Distance wise I cover in the order of 20,000km per year, and have done so pretty consistantly for the past 12 years. I have raced nationally so I can appreciate what is required in terms of the required training. To be competitive, 400 to 500km each and every week of the year at the bare minimum is pretty much where you need to be.

The law allows cyclists to ride two abreast (side by side) and to occupy an entire lane, so they are not doing anything which is illegal in this regard. I am also a motorist and have been so for a smiliar period of time. Sydney's traffic levels are now such that I will avoid main roads as much as I can when riding, there are just too many cars, too many people in too much a hurry.

I have been knocked down at a round-a-bout, even though I was already within and had the right of way. I have had a number of near misses over the years, and in the vast majority of cases, the motorist is at fault.

If the law required all motorists to ride a bike for 6 years in all manner of traffic prior to being eligible for obtaining a driver's license, then the negative attitude that some people have towards cyclists would be so very different indeed.

A cyclist could be your son or daughter, your brother or sister, what attitude would you like other motorists to have towards your family members?

Ron.
Not disagreeing or disputing, but the two abreast issue taking up a whole lane and being ok is fatally flawed in single lane roads. You can say whatever you like, but at the end of the day a car legally doing the speed limit, comes across a cyclist or two taking up the whole lane with traffic on his right at 100kmph goes where, especially over arise or on a bend. I know I have had it occur multiple time and have had to think quick as there was no way of being able to stop in time and have gone close. I know in all honesty if there was to be a choice : 1) Car / Truck oncoming or along side 2) Trees or building on side of rode 3) Cyclist it would be 3) sorry but risk of injury to occupants of the car comes first.
The lane rule should be void completely if there is a viable bike lane and as in my previous post it should be used.
Then there is also another law and tell me if one overrides the other but slow traffic is also illegal, you can be booked for driving less than 30kmph under the posted speed limit without a valid reason eg turning, hazardous conditions.
Yes better facilities should exist but they do not and at the end of the day roads were built for vehicles not bicycles.
A bit of courtesy on both parts goes a long way.

[CJT]

I do agree that coutesy needs to be both ways. I guess at the end of the day it is a bit hard for a cyclist to be courteous to a driver who through their actions, whether intentional or not, could have almost killed them.

There was a time when roads or more importantly road reserves where built as a public place. People would walk there, children would play there and vehicles would drive there, but being aware of other users. I understand that was a long time ago, but maybe that was the right way to think. My kids can not even ride on the local streets around where I live for fear of being run down, but how many of us played on the streets growing up??

As far as driving at 100km/h over a crest and seeing bicycles in the lane and nearly having an accident. There are road design rules that governments and councils apply to. These rules mean that a road is designed to a suitable standard with visibility and stopping site distance in mind. Stopping site distance is calculated from an eye height of 1.15m to an object sitting on the road ahead.

There should be no reason why a vehicle can not stop in time and manouver where required around bicycle riders, especially as they are generally riding at atleast 20km/hr. Since most people on here would be driving a 4wd, then your site lines are better than what roads are designed for as your eye height is significantly higher.

If a driver can not manouver or stop for a cyclist ahead, how can they stop for a fallen tree, traffic accident, cow on the road??? Do you beep and abuse a fallen tree for being in your path??? Or abuse someone in a traffic accident for being there blocking your path???

[big guy]

oh it will come.....they ride two abreast, they ride through red light, dont stop at stop signs, they are noisy at 5am in the morning riding past my house, they cannot maintain the posted speed limit

re: round abouts, when possible i get out into the middle of the lane when going round, this way you are in the line of vision of the person entering the round about as they normally don't look at the outer edge

Cycling in this country is still relatively new as a sport.
Sure its been around but not at the level it is now.

Bikes out sell cars for the last 3 uears now.
Its also legal to travel 2 abreast, most do stop at stop signs just like cars and be serious, the noise created by a bunch of fit riders at the wee hours of the morning has got to be less than a bunch of hoons in their cars which surely we have all experienced.
To beat them however you too could just join them.

As far as travelling at the posted speed limit, that does not really warrant a reply.
Anyone been overseas? Cycling in many parts of the globe is embraced and what a great way it is to commute and to see many elite atheletes come and ride down under and in particular in SA.

Bring it on.

I watch and look twice for bikes of any nature--

[blackbuttdisco]

I really did abuse very loudly the cow that I hit with my Triumph TR7 one night. It wasn't the white one but the black one that was behind. . The cow was dead and so was the TR7. If I am turning left in the D1 and there is a pushbike behind, I get as close to the curb as I can, due to nearly cleaning one up a few years ago in my 2A. He wasn't there when I looked, but by the time I had turned he was there. And he almost never rode again. Yes I just missed him. But I do try to give them room if I can.

[CraigE]

I do agree that coutesy needs to be both ways. I guess at the end of the day it is a bit hard for a cyclist to be courteous to a driver who through their actions, whether intentional or not, could have almost killed them.
The above statement is not fair, I have nearly been hit and cut off by both and on one occasion hit a car. It tends to make me more aware and cautious than discourteous.

There was a time when roads or more importantly road reserves where built as a public place. People would walk there, children would play there and vehicles would drive there, but being aware of other users. I understand that was a long time ago, but maybe that was the right way to think. My kids can not even ride on the local streets around where I live for fear of being run down, but how many of us played on the streets growing up??

As far as driving at 100km/h over a crest and seeing bicycles in the lane and nearly having an accident. There are road design rules that governments and councils apply to. These rules mean that a road is designed to a suitable standard with visibility and stopping site distance in mind. Stopping site distance is calculated from an eye height of 1.15m to an object sitting on the road ahead.

There should be no reason why a vehicle can not stop in time and manouver where required around bicycle riders, especially as they are generally riding at atleast 20km/hr. Since most people on here would be driving a 4wd, then your site lines are better than what roads are designed for as your eye height is significantly higher.

If a driver can not manouver or stop for a cyclist ahead, how can they stop for a fallen tree, traffic accident, cow on the road??? Do you beep and abuse a fallen tree for being in your path??? Or abuse someone in a traffic accident for being there blocking your path???

Of course and most times it is not an issue. I is more than reasonable to give them room and respect 99.9% of the time. As said I ride a pushy and motorbikes, so know what the issues are.
As a community we should be heavily focusing on cycleways. In Esperance we are lucky the footpaths have been designed for dual use so there are lots of cycleways. pedestrians are more of a problem as there are a lot that do not think they have to share the path and will not move for cyclists. But get out on the Esperance-Coolgardie Hwy, Eyre Hwy, Great Eastern Hwy, Great Northern Hwy etc and these roads are not designed for cyclists and there are many areas where you can have close calls, believe me. As a community I think we should all push for cycle lanes and paths to be included in all planning so our kids can ride push bikes. It is not as simple as when "I was a kid we rode everywhere". Speed of cars is not so much an issue in built up areas, but traffic volume is the problem these days.
What does irk me is when there is a perfectly good cycle path and a cyclist refuses to use it.
The other thing that is a problem is that generally there is no real education to ride a bicycle on the road. Cyclists often seem to think that they have the same protection as pedestrians so a turning car has to give way and they can pass on the left, while that is not true.
Cyclists need to realize it is very easy for them to get into a vehicles blind spot, try and stay in a vehicles mirror vision.
IMHO all roads being built, repaired or modified should have an extra section on the side to accommodate cyclists. I am not anti-cycling at all, but am a realist.
Keep Safe Riding

[adm333]

Cyclists who lean on your car .....

YouTube- Fiat - Bicycle (funny commercial)

[weeds]

Cycling in this country is still relatively new as a sport.
Sure its been around but not at the level it is now.

Bikes out sell cars for the last 3 uears now.
Its also legal to travel 2 abreast, most do stop at stop signs just like cars and be serious, the noise created by a bunch of fit riders at the wee hours of the morning has got to be less than a bunch of hoons in their cars which surely we have all experienced.
To beat them however you too could just join them.

As far as travelling at the posted speed limit, that does not really warrant a reply.
Anyone been overseas? Cycling in many parts of the globe is embraced and what a great way it is to commute and to see many elite atheletes come and ride down under and in particular in SA.

Bring it on.

I watch and look twice for bikes of any nature--

:angel::angel:i hope you were on my side there......i was just playing the cracked record of all those against bike riders on the road

[Xul]

I have no problem with cyclists in the city (probably because I am never there!), it's the cyclists in the country that bother me.

Those who live in or near Adelaide will know the roads through the hills where cyclists tend to ride in the middle of the road/2 abreast. I've nearly cleaned them up before.

In fact once while heading home along Mt. Compass - Goolwa road, around a sharp bend there were a group of cyclists, maybe 10-15 taking up a whole lane, and part of the next one! I had to lock up the brakes and still only just missed them. They got a mouthful I can tell you that.

In my honest opinion, bikes simply shouldn't be allowed on 100k windy roads, unless they are mountain bikes who ride on the shoulder.

[Thommo]

In the course of my employment I am required to attend and assist with the investigation of numerous incidents involving heavy vehicles. I often have the availability of CCTV (Front mounted on the vehicles).

I can say with my hand on my heart that the majority of cyclists are at fault legally or often riding in a manner that puts them unnecessarily at risk. (that means not demonstrating common sense).

When I attend such incidents (often before police or emergency services) I am amazed how everyone assumes it is always the heavy vehicle at fault.
When police arrive they always treat the driver as "guilty until proven innocent" and the rider as "innocent until proven guilty" (I usually am able to provide sufficient evidence to substantiate either way).

Now heaven forbid the media should arrive! Captions in media will always read:
"Truck/Bus/Train kills cyclist" when the headlines should read "Cyclist riding in dangerous manner killed by heavy vehicle".

The same (and I see more examples of) applies to pedestrians killed by heavy vehicles (all vehicles for that matter). The last 2 fatal pedestrian incidents I have been attended have been without question the pedestrians fault yet they are still recorded against the road toll despite no error on the part of any vehicle driver!

We are constantly bombarded (including this thread) that we need to be more cyclist aware. Well sorry boys and girls it is a two way street (pun intended) we all need to be heavy vehicle aware, they need greater breaking distances, they can not make fast manoeuvres to avoid cyclists, they take longer to move from a standing start (often commencing movement before the cyclist even comes into sight) they also will go wide or cut off corners (as oversize vehicles must do to negotiate many streets) and yes metro buses do need to hog the left and stop in bike lanes. Cyclists who ride "head down bum up" not looking ahead in a bike lane must expect a bus to be stopped at a bus stop which shares the bike lane (all part of the road rules).

We as motorists are constantly reminded to share our roads with cyclists, I am not aware of too many road safety campaigns that try to educate cyclists about sharing the road.

Now I do sometimes (not often) ride a bike and when I do, I go out of my way to use bike lanes and obey rules including using hand signals when appropriate and you know what happens? I am ridiculed by most other cyclists who openly defy the rules.

To the very few cyclists out there who do ride responsibly I offer my apologies but I am only dealing in facts!

[Xul]

Very interesting post Thommo and I agree with it all.

I reckon one of the main problems with Adelaide is the bloody Advertiser. They will make anything up for a good story. Off topic, but I have mates who do law and have to attend trials. In one case the Advertiser completely falsified the results of a case!

Maybe the lycra clad hordes who head down Anzac Highway every Saturday should come under bikie gang laws, because they certainly act like a gang sometimes.

[MinniTheMoocha]

In the course of my employment I am required to attend and assist with the investigation of numerous incidents involving heavy vehicles. I often have the availability of CCTV (Front mounted on the vehicles).

I can say with my hand on my heart that the majority of cyclists are at fault legally or often riding in a manner that puts them unnecessarily at risk. (that means not demonstrating common sense).

When I attend such incidents (often before police or emergency services) I am amazed how everyone assumes it is always the heavy vehicle at fault.
When police arrive they always treat the driver as "guilty until proven innocent" and the rider as "innocent until proven guilty" (I usually am able to provide sufficient evidence to substantiate either way).

Now heaven forbid the media should arrive! Captions in media will always read:
"Truck/Bus/Train kills cyclist" when the headlines should read "Cyclist riding in dangerous manner killed by heavy vehicle".

The same (and I see more examples of) applies to pedestrians killed by heavy vehicles (all vehicles for that matter). The last 2 fatal pedestrian incidents I have been attended have been without question the pedestrians fault yet they are still recorded against the road toll despite no error on the part of any vehicle driver!

We are constantly bombarded (including this thread) that we need to be more cyclist aware. Well sorry boys and girls it is a two way street (pun intended) we all need to be heavy vehicle aware, they need greater breaking distances, they can not make fast manoeuvres to avoid cyclists, they take longer to move from a standing start (often commencing movement before the cyclist even comes into sight) they also will go wide or cut off corners (as oversize vehicles must do to negotiate many streets) and yes metro buses do need to hog the left and stop in bike lanes. Cyclists who ride "head down bum up" not looking ahead in a bike lane must expect a bus to be stopped at a bus stop which shares the bike lane (all part of the road rules).

We as motorists are constantly reminded to share our roads with cyclists, I am not aware of too many road safety campaigns that try to educate cyclists about sharing the road.

Now I do sometimes (not often) ride a bike and when I do, I go out of my way to use bike lanes and obey rules including using hand signals when appropriate and you know what happens? I am ridiculed by most other cyclists who openly defy the rules.

To the very few cyclists out there who do ride responsibly I offer my apologies but I am only dealing in facts!

That's all well and good to say you have viewed footage of unsafe cyclists being the cause of the majority of accidents with heavy vehicles but what about the many cyclists killed by regular cars that do not record this evidence.

I used to cycle three times a week to work and I can say nearly everyday I had a close call. Drivers are basically half asleep on the way to work!

Two abreast is recognised as improving the visibility of riders and on multi lane roads I am fine with it. I admit on single winding roads two abreast is not very considerate. But most cyclists I know wouldn't do this.

Regularly I now ride my motorbike and its pretty much the same. The difference is I can travel faster and have noisy exhaust pipes that make my presence known. But the amount of times that cars have just veered into my path or pull out in front of me is unbelievable. And this despite me blowing my horn (which is a car horn) but they happily continue into my path oblivious to the the life threatening situation they are putting me in and I am forced to veer or brake suddenly.

All I can say is all road users should both have to ride a push bike, ride a motorbike and even drive a truck for that matter, to understand just how important it is to cater to the different needs of all vehicles and their drivers.

You can say what you like about cyclists/riders not obeying road laws and the like but most are just riding to survive!

[RoverP6B]

As I mentioned before and as Thommo has just mentioned,..common sense is the key, in any situation. The action you take should be based upon the situation in which you find yourself. This applies equally to cyclists as to motorists. You only have to look at the number of motorists and the percentage of morons to be able to extrapolate that to cyclists,..afterall I imagine it would be fair to say that the majority of cyclists are also motorists.

On the subject of bike paths, I have never used one and I have been riding for over 30 years. For the recreational cyclist a bike path is likely to be an advantage for any number of reasons. For the cyclist like myself who is interested in a high level of fitness along with racing, utilising a bike path is not at all practical and would not allow me or any other cyclist with equal intent to achieve their objectives.

As I have said before, it would be beneficial for many reasons if all people prior to being eligible for obtaining a driver's license were required to ride a bike for 6 years or so in all manner of traffic. I appreciate that the logistics would prevent this from every happening, but from an "ideas point of view", it would be a very good result. There would be far greater understanding and appreciation on all sides with motorists knowing first hand what a cyclist is experiencing, having been there themselves. As a motorist I always show respect and understanding for cyclists because I am one too.

Ron.

[Chad]

I have a DRAG car and I like RACING too..

Would you see a problem if I didn't use the designated areas DESIGNED for me and USED public road because IT SUITS ME BETTER...

Drag Strips are there for Drag cars

Bike PATHS are there for Cyclists/Bikes...

Get the picture??

And you wonder why after a comment like that, theres so much anomosity...

[RoverP6B]

MiniTheMoocha wrote,...
That's all well and good to say you have viewed footage of unsafe cyclists being the cause of the majority of accidents with heavy vehicles but what about the many cyclists killed by regular cars that do not record this evidence.

I used to cycle three times a week to work and I can say nearly everyday I had a close call. Drivers are basically half asleep on the way to work!

Two abreast is recognised as improving the visibility of riders and on multi lane roads I am fine with it. I admit on single winding roads two abreast is not very considerate. But most cyclists I know wouldn't do this.

Regularly I now ride my motorbike and its pretty much the same. The difference is I can travel faster and have noisy exhaust pipes that make my presence known. But the amount of times that cars have just veered into my path or pull out in front of me is unbelievable. And this despite me blowing my horn (which is a car horn) but they happily continue into my path oblivious to the the life threatening situation they are putting me in and I am forced to veer or brake suddenly.

All I can say is all road users should both have to ride a push bike, ride a motorbike and even drive a truck for that matter, to understand just how important it is to cater to the different needs of all vehicles and their drivers.

You can say what you like about cyclists/riders not obeying road laws and the like but most are just riding to survive!

This is very true indeed. No appreciation or respect for anyone else. I see it all the time too. This is not a problem in Europe, so clearly it is an attitude of people in this Country.

Ron.

[MinniTheMoocha]

I have a DRAG car and I like RACING too..

Would you see a problem if I didn't use the designated areas DESIGNED for me and USED public road because IT SUITS ME BETTER...

Drag Strips are there for Drag cars

Bike PATHS are there for Cyclists/Bikes...

Get the picture??

And you wonder why after a comment like that, theres so much anomosity...

That's a pretty weak argument Chad.

To ride bike paths would take me 3hrs to get to work. Riding on a road that is for "all" road going vehicles takes 30minutes. Half the time you can't ride on bike paths because of walkers that won't use the walking path! So cyclists just can't win.

Drag cars are purpose built for ultimate speed over a short distance. Getting to work riding on the road is not just because it suits me better.

Like I said. Ride a bike for a while (after you lose your license say after using your drag car on the road! :-) and then I think you will appreciate the need for all road users.

Enjoy the drag strip.

[Chad]

Im sorry but this could go round and round for ever....

Unfortuantely people with different opinions will never agree.

Personally I take it as an INSULT that my tax paying dollars, that build Bike paths aren't good enough? Why bother then? Honestly how is it different, a DRAG car built for SPEED goes to a DRAG STRIP??

A Road racing car built for ROAD racings goes to a Circuit track?

A road RACING bike goes ON a PUBLIC ROAD, 2 abreast because the BIKE PATHS aren't good enough for them?? Come on, If I argued that it takes me 3 hours to get to the track to race, so therefore as I live on a straight road I should be able to just DRAG along there??

Theres always 2 sides to every argument.

At the END of the day, it has been SUMED up previously, THE BIKE PATHS DON'T SUIT most ROAD riders because, of pedestrainas, lengths of routes, whatever it may be??

So therefore even though they CHOOSE TO RIDE to WORK, they cannot use the appropriate paths because it doesn't SUIT THEM??

I believe that after these comments, REGO could be paid by these ROAD users, that have the INFRASTRUCTURE in place, in there area, and CHOOSE not to use it BECAUSE IT DOESN'T suit them..?? Sorry i forgot, IGNORANCE IS BLISS...


If they WERE riding to Survive they wouldn't be riding $10k bikes with Bulge Revealing LYCRA and posing like a ******..

I have NO problems with the Person, getting from A - B on there Push bike...

If it truly were for FITNESS, etc..

By a ****ing Exercise bike??

Or go ride at a TRACk designed for it??

Leave the PUBLIC roads, for the PUBLIC, using them to do what they are designed for,

[RoverP6B]

Chad wrote,...
I have a DRAG car and I like RACING too..

Would you see a problem if I didn't use the designated areas DESIGNED for me and USED public road because IT SUITS ME BETTER...

Drag Strips are there for Drag cars

Bike PATHS are there for Cyclists/Bikes...

Get the picture??

And you wonder why after a comment like that, theres so much anomosity...

Sorry Chad, with a comment like that, I know that there is sadly no hope.

Ron.

[RoverP6B]

Chad wrote,...
If they WERE riding to Survive they wouldn't be riding $10k bikes with Bulge Revealing LYCRA and posing like a ******..

I have NO problems with the Person, getting from A - B on there Push bike...

If it truly were for FITNESS, etc..

By a ****ing Exercise bike??

Or go ride at a TRACk designed for it??

Leave the PUBLIC roads, for the PUBLIC, using them to do what they are designed for,

You belong in a zoo pal,..what a moron.

Ron.

[MinniTheMoocha]

If they WERE riding to Survive they wouldn't be riding $10k bikes with Bulge Revealing LYCRA and posing like a ******..

I have NO problems with the Person, getting from A - B on there Push bike...

If it truly were for FITNESS, etc..

By a ****ing Exercise bike??

Or go ride at a TRACk designed for it??

Leave the PUBLIC roads, for the PUBLIC, using them to do what they are designed for,

Your comments have highlighted just how narrow minded people can be.

Next you'll be on about motorbike riders in the bush and that the tracks are only for four wheel drives!

For me the argument ends.

Enjoy whatever it is you do.

[Chad]

Motorcycles that ride in the BUSh don't PAY REGO...

Motorcycles on the road do???

Get the picture??

Drag cars OFF the Public road don't pay rego, Cars that are REGISTERED and Compete occasionally at the drag pay REGO...

And rover p6 whatever.... you are a typical cycylist... I bet after that personal attack on me you will now be able to PUT A FEW MORE SOCKS down your LYCRA PANTS....

Unfortunately it don't bother me, cause i won't be the ****WIT who gets RUN over...

Ride away, you ******, just don't push your weight around too much, cause you will end up LOSING...And to be honest if you did i would have not ONE BIT of sympathy for you, especially since you have SOMEWHERE safe to ride AND CHOOSE NOT TOO!

Just remember that next time you have a close call on a public road.

Bit late when your in heaven cause you were RUN OVER and you say, BUT I WAS ALLOWED TO RIDE IN THE MIDDLE of a single lane road,

Good luck

And stay safe

[dullbird]

Ok Gentleman lets calm it down a little.......

Leave out the personal attacks please. By all means debate the issues but please keep it civil.:)

[Fluids]

Yeah, I'm cyclist aware ... I'm aware that their stuffed! if I clean one up, so generally I give them a wide berth ... there's enough carnage on the roads already, and it's just not worth getting all worked up about!

I hope she paid for the repair/replacement of your bike! ?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

MOD HAT ON
second and last warning Gentlemen,,
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

[CraigE]

Absolutely no need to argue.
I ride a push bike, so do my kids.
I ride a motorbike - Dirt Bike in bush and on road.
I ride roadbikes.
I drive buggies.
I drive 4x4s and cars.
I drive trucks.
I drive emergency vehicles.
Have driven speedway and drag cars.
We have 5 registered vehicles, 3 additional unregistered off road vehicles, 1 trailer and 1 caravan. Regos for bicycles would be uncalled for. I think I pay enough rego and can still only use one vehicle at a time.
Better education is probablly the answer and the police to actually start enforcing road breaches as they do with cars.
There is room for all, all that is generally required is a bit of etiquette and courtesy on both parts. There is good and bad in all.

[CraigE]

I have no problem with cyclists in the city (probably because I am never there!), it's the cyclists in the country that bother me.

Those who live in or near Adelaide will know the roads through the hills where cyclists tend to ride in the middle of the road/2 abreast. I've nearly cleaned them up before.

In fact once while heading home along Mt. Compass - Goolwa road, around a sharp bend there were a group of cyclists, maybe 10-15 taking up a whole lane, and part of the next one! I had to lock up the brakes and still only just missed them. They got a mouthful I can tell you that.

In my honest opinion, bikes simply shouldn't be allowed on 100k windy roads, unless they are mountain bikes who ride on the shoulder.

Have not driven the roads for a bit (2 years) but can get quite interesting up around devils elbow or out on the Gorge roads. Know the area well.
Motorcycles are more dangerous on the gorge roads. More than once have nearly taken the head of a motorcyclist doing well above the speed limit on the windy bits , leaning the bike over and their head and shoulder being across the white lines.
For bikes and bicycles not too many second chances when you get hit by a car/bus/truck. Hence why when I am riding either I try to be extra vigilant.

[Didge]

I believe most motorists are only too well aware of cyclists but would you swim or paddle a canoe in the shipping lanes in Sydney Harbour? No, cos its stupid and dangerous. Would you fly a hang glider around any airport? No, cos its stupid and dangerous. BUT, its ok to ride on a main road at much slower speeds than the rest of traffic cos its stupid and dangerous? Come on! If exercise is what you're after, go to a purpose built facility or the backstreets where is smart and safe. Think about it. What other exercise impedes the needs of so many others? None that I can think of (but I stand to be corrected). If cyclists could keep up with traffic it'd be ok, but they can't. They're a slow moving and dangerous traffic block. If I deliberately held you up just cos I wanted to you'd become annoyed, wouldn't you? When cyclists are riding two abreast along a long, winding road such as along the coast past Stanwell Park (south of Sydney) where there are double lines for miles on end, what is a motorist expected to do? Toddle along at 25-30 behind them and be help up just because Lance and his boys want to peddle? Or do they break the law and cross the double lines and risk an accident or police fine? Yeah, consideration is the answer and it should ALSO be coming from the cyclists, and I've yet to see it anywhere I've seen them on the road. I believe no reasonable person wants to really see a cyclist get hurt in an accident but by being inconsiderate of motorists and displaying an arrogance that defies belief they foster these feelings of frustration and anger.

[BMKal]

In the course of my employment I am required to attend and assist with the investigation of numerous incidents involving heavy vehicles. I often have the availability of CCTV (Front mounted on the vehicles).

I can say with my hand on my heart that the majority of cyclists are at fault legally or often riding in a manner that puts them unnecessarily at risk. (that means not demonstrating common sense).

When I attend such incidents (often before police or emergency services) I am amazed how everyone assumes it is always the heavy vehicle at fault.
When police arrive they always treat the driver as "guilty until proven innocent" and the rider as "innocent until proven guilty" (I usually am able to provide sufficient evidence to substantiate either way).

Now heaven forbid the media should arrive! Captions in media will always read:
"Truck/Bus/Train kills cyclist" when the headlines should read "Cyclist riding in dangerous manner killed by heavy vehicle".

The same (and I see more examples of) applies to pedestrians killed by heavy vehicles (all vehicles for that matter). The last 2 fatal pedestrian incidents I have been attended have been without question the pedestrians fault yet they are still recorded against the road toll despite no error on the part of any vehicle driver!

We are constantly bombarded (including this thread) that we need to be more cyclist aware. Well sorry boys and girls it is a two way street (pun intended) we all need to be heavy vehicle aware, they need greater breaking distances, they can not make fast manoeuvres to avoid cyclists, they take longer to move from a standing start (often commencing movement before the cyclist even comes into sight) they also will go wide or cut off corners (as oversize vehicles must do to negotiate many streets) and yes metro buses do need to hog the left and stop in bike lanes. Cyclists who ride "head down bum up" not looking ahead in a bike lane must expect a bus to be stopped at a bus stop which shares the bike lane (all part of the road rules).

We as motorists are constantly reminded to share our roads with cyclists, I am not aware of too many road safety campaigns that try to educate cyclists about sharing the road.

Now I do sometimes (not often) ride a bike and when I do, I go out of my way to use bike lanes and obey rules including using hand signals when appropriate and you know what happens? I am ridiculed by most other cyclists who openly defy the rules.

To the very few cyclists out there who do ride responsibly I offer my apologies but I am only dealing in facts!

Having worked in heavy haulage myself for a couple of years a while back, I can only wholeheartedly agree with your comments Thommo.

Running a 100 tonne float with a dump truck on it on the designated heavy haulage route through the Perth hills (The Lakes to York) and coming across a group of lycra clad idiots on bikes who refused to move over and allow this load to pass, even though requested to do so by an authorised escort / pilot vehicle, showed me just what is the mentality of some of the people we're dealing with.

I won't go into detail on how the cyclists were "removed" from the road. Discussed that on here once before and was flamed for it by the apologists for common sense. But at least none of them ended up under the wheels of the truck or float - that time.

Fortunately, not all cyclists are as stupid as some of the examples that we see.

[windsock]

Geez, it is going to be interesting to revisit this thread when fuel gets to $4-5 a litre and some are pushed onto bikes through necessity...
forced role-reversal is going to be a ******! :wasntme:

[Tombie]

Geez, it is going to be interesting to revisit this thread when fuel gets to $4-5 a litre and some are pushed onto bikes through necessity...
forced role-reversal is going to be a ******! :wasntme:

Very much doubt that...
Fuel pricing has escalated far faster the CPI pay rises and most continue to drive.

$5.00 per litre won't stop me driving, or riding.

It will just make people re-think a few things, or spend differently.

[CraigE]

Having worked in heavy haulage myself for a couple of years a while back, I can only wholeheartedly agree with your comments Thommo.

Running a 100 tonne float with a dump truck on it on the designated heavy haulage route through the Perth hills (The Lakes to York) and coming across a group of lycra clad idiots on bikes who refused to move over and allow this load to pass, even though requested to do so by an authorised escort / pilot vehicle, showed me just what is the mentality of some of the people we're dealing with.

I won't go into detail on how the cyclists were "removed" from the road. Discussed that on here once before and was flamed for it by the apologists for common sense. But at least none of them ended up under the wheels of the truck or float - that time.

Fortunately, not all cyclists are as stupid as some of the examples that we see.
Brian,
Aren't Pilots now regarded as public officers? So failing to do as directed is actually an offence.

[big guy]

Cyclists are here to stay like it or not.

Most are observing the road rules and you will always find the odd one that is beyond the law etc.
Riding is also a very visible sport as its out there in your face and on the road for all to see.
The reason we often do ride 2 abreast is to be more visible and believe it or not, but there are riding styles where the outside rides faster than the inside lane and the lead constantly keeps swapping to take the load of the lead rider.Its also nice to swap chat to each other, quite often one does 3 hours in the seat.
How hard would it be to just slow a little and let the riders do their thing. It may take 5 minutes out of ones life but perhaps admire their determination to shed the weight to make the lycra look good or just shed the weight to ease the burden on our health system due to obesity.
Take your pick but make peace and don't let the little things irratete so much as to insult each other over a few cyclists who in general are pretty good.

Wish I could say same about your average driver on the road. Look out the window and there are so many close misses, that is truly scary and its also getting worse with a growing population.

Go on, give a rider a go, better still go join us and see why a bike path is fine for your average Repco thumper but a proper road bike its just not good enough.;)

[BMKal]

Brian,
Aren't Pilots now regarded as public officers? So failing to do as directed is actually an offence.

Yes, that's correct Craig. In WA at least, an accredited pilot has exactly the same powers as a police officer when it comes to directing traffic whilst in control of an oversize load (as do authorised lollypop operators at roadworks sites etc - fail to stop at the lollypop when directed to do so and see where it gets you). But unfortunately, the reporting of "offences" is only really possible when you can quote a recognizeable means of identification, such as a registration number.

Having mentioned one of the examples of problems I have had with cyclists while in this job, to be fair I should also mention that I had far more frequent problems with complete muppets driving cars on the roads in relation to oversize loads. You wanna try blocking off all traffic (in both directions) on the bridge at the bottom of Greenmount. Yes, there is plenty of room for them to pass (especially in the opposite direction), but when the load is above a certain weight (axle loading) it is illegal for the load to be on the bridge at the same time as any other traffic (in case the bridge fails). Often the easiest way to do this is to call up a large truck approaching from the opposite direction and ask him to swing across the road a bit and block both lanes for you. ;)

[CJT]

I would be happy to use cycle paths if;

1. I can ride at the same speed I do on a roadway. (Average 30km/hr +)

2. There where any.
I have ridden regularly over the last few years from:
- Morayfield to Shorncliffe
- Morayfield to Brisbane
- North Lakes to Brisbane
- Townsville to Bushland Beach
- Berserker to Glenmore (Rockhampton)

I currently dont ride to work from Bellmere as it is 55km each way, however will go back to riding to work later this year when we move back to North Lakes. So North Lakes to Fortitude Valley each day via Redcliffe.

If cyclists aparently have to use cycle paths only, why are cyclists classed as road users?

In addition, a cyclist will use roads for the same reason people drive their cars when public transport is available....convenience is generally why and suitability of the routes.

[Thommo]

Cyclists are here to stay like it or not.

Most are observing the road rules and you will always find the odd one that is beyond the law etc.
Riding is also a very visible sport as its out there in your face and on the road for all to see.
The reason we often do ride 2 abreast is to be more visible and believe it or not, but there are riding styles where the outside rides faster than the inside lane and the lead constantly keeps swapping to take the load of the lead rider.Its also nice to swap chat to each other, quite often one does 3 hours in the seat.
How hard would it be to just slow a little and let the riders do their thing. It may take 5 minutes out of ones life but perhaps admire their determination to shed the weight to make the lycra look good or just shed the weight to ease the burden on our health system due to obesity.
Take your pick but make peace and don't let the little things irratete so much as to insult each other over a few cyclists who in general are pretty good.

Wish I could say same about your average driver on the road. Look out the window and there are so many close misses, that is truly scary and its also getting worse with a growing population.

Go on, give a rider a go, better still go join us and see why a bike path is fine for your average Repco thumper but a proper road bike its just not good enough.;)

Sorry Big Guy to rain on your parade but the arguments you (and other similar posts) put forward whilst I am sure you feel passionate about are somewhat flawed:

To say most cyclists observe the road rules is an absolute falacity which can be substantiated by facts. I recently spent several days recording statistics in the CBD (one of the less desirable elements of my job). Whilst not specifically recording data about bikes it is inevitable that I took more than a passing interest and I found over 90% of all cyclists failed to legally stop at stop lights. (Yes less than 1 in 10 actually stopped prior to the intersection when faced with a red light)
Over 50% of cyclists when confronted with a stop light rode in a manner dangerous and mounted a footpath at speed amongst pedestrians to avoid stopping The remaining 40% rode around in circles in front of traffic lanes to keep their momentum or just ignored the stop light altogether. Of the less than 10% that did stop, many used vehicles to rest/lean on (a very dangerous practise indeed). During all my days in the CBD I only once ever observed a rider give a hand signal indicating their intention to turn, much to the pleasure of the vehicles trying to exit from a car park.

You mention it is nice to "chat" whilst riding as an reason for riding two abrest, yet we as motorists are now being told that it is dangerous to "chat" whilst driving with various draconian road safety experts who would have even more laws imposed on the driver.
(yes there are plans to consider banning even hands free devices from being used in vehicles). Sorry wanting to have a "chat" does not constitute a good reason for defying commonsense.

You want to ride two abreast as it is a riding "style", sorry this also defies common sense on most roads.

You like many other cyclists complain dedicated bike paths are not up to satisfactory standard for upmarket fancy bikes! Again sorry but neither are most of our roads according to most members here, can no one be responsible for their own actions. The excuse that bike paths/lanes are only suitable for "Repco" bikes would be the same as complaining the roads are not suitable for me to drive a sports car at high speed. There is no logic in your argument, if your bikes are so fancy and fragile that they can only be ridden on the best of surfaces then take them to a velodrome, if you wish to ride a bike on the real world roads/paths provided to get fit or be part of the fashionable green brigade that is fine, go an buy a suitable bike for that purpose (just like those of us who want to drive off road buy a 4x4).

As for near misses, yes this is a fact of riding. Again the number of incidents I attend where a cyclist has gone into road rage about a near miss is staggering. The facts are that the majority of vehicles know exactly how close they are getting (notably heavy vehicles) which is very close but no different to the distance other vehicles pass stationary/parked cars on the left or distance between vehicles on multi lane carriageways, yet other motorist generally don't go into road rage because someone came within a few inches. Think about how close you ride a bike to a car when cars are stationary in a traffic jam and cyclists believe that they can manourve around RV mirrors (often knocking them) if this is how close bikes want to come to cars then be prepared for cars to come this close to bikes!

Once again I apologise to the very few cyclists out there who do the right thing of whom you may be but I will not except that the majority of cyclists do the right thing, they do not!
I do not deliberately wish to enrage cyclists so I will end with a positive and that is there is one demographic of road users who make cyclists look like law abiding angels : Taxi Drivers (now can we start a thread where I can tell you some more facts)

[Tombie]

Well written Thommo. Well thought out post.

And a cyclist leaning on my vehicle is never going to be a good situation for the rider! I've had this a few times and it's always ended with the cyclist copping a smack in the head...

[RoverP6B]

Thommo wrote,...
Sorry Big Guy to rain on your parade but the arguments you (and other similar posts) put forward whilst I am sure you feel passionate about are somewhat flawed:

To say most cyclists observe the road rules is an absolute falacity which can be substantiated by facts. I recently spent several days recording statistics in the CBD (one of the less desirable elements of my job). Whilst not specifically recording data about bikes it is inevitable that I took more than a passing interest and I found over 90% of all cyclists failed to legally stop at stop lights. (Yes less than 1 in 10 actually stopped prior to the intersection when faced with a red light)
Over 50% of cyclists when confronted with a stop light rode in a manner dangerous and mounted a footpath at speed amongst pedestrians to avoid stopping The remaining 40% rode around in circles in front of traffic lanes to keep their momentum or just ignored the stop light altogether. Of the less than 10% that did stop, many used vehicles to rest/lean on (a very dangerous practise indeed). During all my days in the CBD I only once ever observed a rider give a hand signal indicating their intention to turn, much to the pleasure of the vehicles trying to exit from a car park.

You mention it is nice to "chat" whilst riding as an reason for riding two abrest, yet we as motorists are now being told that it is dangerous to "chat" whilst driving with various draconian road safety experts who would have even more laws imposed on the driver.
(yes there are plans to consider banning even hands free devices from being used in vehicles). Sorry wanting to have a "chat" does not constitute a good reason for defying commonsense.

You want to ride two abreast as it is a riding "style", sorry this also defies common sense on most roads.

You like many other cyclists complain dedicated bike paths are not up to satisfactory standard for upmarket fancy bikes! Again sorry but neither are most of our roads according to most members here, can no one be responsible for their own actions. The excuse that bike paths/lanes are only suitable for "Repco" bikes would be the same as complaining the roads are not suitable for me to drive a sports car at high speed. There is no logic in your argument, if your bikes are so fancy and fragile that they can only be ridden on the best of surfaces then take them to a velodrome, if you wish to ride a bike on the real world roads/paths provided to get fit or be part of the fashionable green brigade that is fine, go an buy a suitable bike for that purpose (just like those of us who want to drive off road buy a 4x4).

As for near misses, yes this is a fact of riding. Again the number of incidents I attend where a cyclist has gone into road rage about a near miss is staggering. The facts are that the majority of vehicles know exactly how close they are getting (notably heavy vehicles) which is very close but no different to the distance other vehicles pass stationary/parked cars on the left or distance between vehicles on multi lane carriageways, yet other motorist generally don't go into road rage because someone came within a few inches. Think about how close you ride a bike to a car when cars are stationary in a traffic jam and cyclists believe that they can manourve around RV mirrors (often knocking them) if this is how close bikes want to come to cars then be prepared for cars to come this close to bikes!

Once again I apologise to the very few cyclists out there who do the right thing of whom you may be but I will not except that the majority of cyclists do the right thing, they do not!
I do not deliberately wish to enrage cyclists so I will end with a positive and that is there is one demographic of road users who make cyclists look like law abiding angels : Taxi Drivers (now can we start a thread where I can tell you some more facts)

Hello Thommo,

An intersting post.

I imagine equally that similar observations would show that the vast majority of motorists also don't obey the law. How many motorists actually abide by the posted speed limits? How many actually stop as you are supposed to when at a "STOP" sign? I have one at the end of my street, and another just around the corner. Whilst having a coffee one day I counted the number of cars that actually obeyed the law with regard to their behaviour at the stop sign. Of the 50 cars that I counted, only 2 actually stopped as required. That is 96% of motorists doing the wrong thing...breaking the law.

School zones were instituted as a result of motorists running down children. I seem to recall that there were a number of such incidents occuring in Sydney prior to the 40km/h zones being enforced. What does that say about the motorists who would drive in such a dangerous manner as to hit children?

Ron.

[rick130]

Thommo, from your observations, how many of those you observed in the CBD do you reckon might have been bike couriers ?

[rick130]

and what's a bike path ?

Not too many of those suckers in this part of the world, but then we struggle for basic services anyway.

I have to say that riding on the narrow little country roads and highway that I use, all the car and truck drivers always give me heaps of room and locals out in the hills are great.

It actually gets dangerous trying to bunny hop the pot holes and miss the broken edges and wave at the same time :D

[Thommo]

Thommo wrote,...

Hello Thommo,

An intersting post.

I imagine equally that similar observations would show that the vast majority of motorists also don't obey the law. How many motorists actually abide by the posted speed limits? How many actually stop as you are supposed to when at a "STOP" sign? I have one at the end of my street, and another just around the corner. Whilst having a coffee one day I counted the number of cars that actually obeyed the law with regard to their behaviour at the stop sign. Of the 50 cars that I counted, only 2 actually stopped as required. That is 96% of motorists doing the wrong thing...breaking the law.

School zones were instituted as a result of motorists running down children. I seem to recall that there were a number of such incidents occurring in Sydney prior to the 40km/h zones being enforced. What does that say about the motorists who would drive in such a dangerous manner as to hit children?

Ron.

You are absolutely 100% correct about motorists, I never claimed motorists where perfect, I was replying to those that make the comments of "cyclists" generally being law abiding being incorrect.
The other consideration is that the majority of motorists are held accountable for their actions (red light cameras, speed detection etc etc) seldom are cyclists held accountable for their actions.
It is as agreed by many including yourself I believe that it comes down to common sense however there are too many cyclists with the wrong attitude.

Now of the 50 cars you observed failing to stop in the correct manner how many continued through the intersection in a dangerous manner? If the observed intersection lends itself to stop sign running I would put it to you that most cyclists also would disobey the same stop sign. (I would suggest 100%).

School Zones (something I am involved with on almost a daily basis with traffic management) is a whole subject by itself, please do not start me on that subject. Needless to say the demographic most a fault of all School Zone incidents is the "Impatient Parent Picking Up being Selfish Road Hogs with tunnel vision and no concern for any other road users" speed whilst it should be limited is not the greatest safety concern. I am currently investigating/working with councils on several school zones.

This is becoming a very emotional subject :bangin:

[Quarks]

I suspect you may have confused big guy with CJT halfway through there, Thommo. ;)

Just to clarify CJT's point, most bike paths I've tried (admittedly most are urban, and many are shared paths), are designed/constructed in such a way that it isn't safe to ride much faster than 20-30km/h.
One thing to consider is lines of sight at intersections (of all types: roads, driveways, marked crossings, etc). For example, a path beside a suburban road is likely to have only 30-40m between intersections (less if neighbours don't share driveway laybacks); and at each one of these, riders ought to ensure that it is safe to pass. At the abovementioned speeds, this equates to an interval of 4-7 seconds between intersections; which is enough time to respond, presuming other traffic hasn't seen you. Now try doing 45km/h: that gives a gap of 2-3 seconds from completing crossing an intersection to check that the next one is safe to pass.
On the other hand, as the majority of vehicles expect to give way to traffic (in the traffic lanes) when coming in/out of driveways, and lines of sight are longer, so one would have, speed for speed, proportionally more time to respond.

Secondly, poor construction can make travel uncomfortable, at speeds reasonable for a fit rider. Unsmoothed joints, grooves, and (my most disliked) patches of cold mix bitumen make for lots of inconsistencies. Rumble strips work for a reason! :D At least on a road lane, you get 2.5m of width to pick a smooth path. (Although the rubber hoses for automatic traffic counters are a bit nasty!)

:)

[Chad]

Boo Hoo...

Pay rego, display a Number Plate and OBEY all road rules, if you choose to ride on the road, thats what I say...

If your bike paths are not suitable....

Easy, I think that would be the fairest way.

Then you do have a right...

Also, if I am hit by a Cyclist, when a Pedestrian, I should be able to report it, (ie numberplate), and also if you are DEEMED as a Vehicle, which you all say you are, and the letter of the Law states it too, Where is your Personal Accident insurance if you hit someone? And injure them?

Thats what I don't get. Would you be happy if I was Driving my VEHICLE without insurance cover, at least 3rd Party, in Case an ACCIDENT happens, and i hit yoy, your car, your property etc....

Mark my words, it won't be long till Cyclists, pay rego, and wear plates...

Then, they HAVE the rights of a VEHICLE.....

[mns488]

Strange how a post about being cyclist aware degenrates quickly into a cyclist bagging thread.

But when a newspaper article (or whoever) bags 4wds, people here call it narrow minded and gerneralistic of the people doing the bagging.

I ride once or twice a week and hate riding on (main) roads and try not to because it is unforgiving on a bike if there is an accident (who cares whos to blame, it is unforgiving). But that is my perogative as is that of someone who chooses to ride on a road.

How hard is it just give them room and go around them, takes 1 - 2 seconds of your life. What is with people and the don't give an inch on the roads attitude. When I drive I try and be considerate to other road users whether it be bikes, trucks, trams, ambulances, fire engines or (like this weekend) the farmer moving is cattle down the road.

The reality is bikes will be always around there is NO escaping that. Just like there will always be 4wds (and people complaining about them).

Now I didn't read a lot of the posts because they were somewhat boring and illogical so I hope I haven't gone on a tangent. Apologies if i have.

[CJT]

You know why I dont mind cyclists?

Because while we are on the subject of user pays and taxes etc. I dont see why my tax contributions should be used at hospitals for overweight associated illness.

65% of men and 45% of women in Australia are overweight. This costs tax payers approximately $800 million dollars per year in treatment of overweight and obese associated illness.

[rick130]

Boo Hoo...

Pay rego, display a Number Plate and OBEY all road rules, if you choose to ride on the road, thats what I say...

If your bike paths are not suitable....

Easy, I think that would be the fairest way.

Then you do have a right...

Also, if I am hit by a Cyclist, when a Pedestrian, I should be able to report it, (ie numberplate), and also if you are DEEMED as a Vehicle, which you all say you are, and the letter of the Law states it too, Where is your Personal Accident insurance if you hit someone? And injure them?

Thats what I don't get. Would you be happy if I was Driving my VEHICLE without insurance cover, at least 3rd Party, in Case an ACCIDENT happens, and i hit yoy, your car, your property etc....

Mark my words, it won't be long till Cyclists, pay rego, and wear plates...

Then, they HAVE the rights of a VEHICLE.....

So you either don't respect the law, or think you are above the law, as at the moment a cyclist has the same rights as any other vehicle.

If you came across a mob of sheep or a herd of cattle, I'd take it you'd plough straight through as they have no right to be there ? the roads is for cars and trucks only ?

Guess what, they are allowed on the road too and are a common occurrence in these parts, as are the stockmen on horses or quads moving them, all sorts of ag gear like tractors, tractors with gear hanging off the back, headers, etc which all move none too quickly.

You wouldn't last two seconds around here, a little respect and patience goes a long way.

[rick130]

Boo Hoo...

Pay rego, display a Number Plate and OBEY all road rules, if you choose to ride on the road, thats what I say...

[snip]


this is the crux of the matter for you, isn't it ?

Someone is getting away with something that you can't !

It's straight out envy !

[Chad]

You know why I dont mind cyclists?

Because while we are on the subject of user pays and taxes etc. I dont see why my tax contributions should be used at hospitals for overweight associated illness.

65% of men and 45% of women in Australia are overweight. This costs tax payers approximately $800 million dollars per year in treatment of overweight and obese associated illness.

Go to a GYM..... Easy

[Chad]

So you either don't respect the law, or think you are above the law, as at the moment a cyclist has the same rights as any other vehicle.

If you came across a mob of sheep or a herd of cattle, I'd take it you'd plough straight through as they have no right to be there ? the roads is for cars and trucks only ?

Guess what, they are allowed on the road too and are a common occurrence in these parts, as are the stockmen on horses or quads moving them, all sorts of ag gear like tractors, tractors with gear hanging off the back, headers, etc which all move none too quickly.

You wouldn't last two seconds around here, a little respect and patience goes a long way.

No problem with that...

wouldn't worry me in the least, as the are doing something PRODUCTIVE...

Like I posted earlier, i have no problem with a Cyclist getting from A-B, riding in single file, obeying the ROAD RULES, and Having commonsense...

Sorry but your other explanation don't cut it...

how bout,

A farmer decided that Crossing the road wasn't good enough for him or his sheep/cattle whatever it may be, so he would divide them up into 2 lanes, taking up half the road, and just walk around, in his Tight Underwear because he decided thats what he wanted to do for the day??

That would equal my previous comments, if you choose to read them..

Thanks Chad

[brizmatt]

I have always been amazed at the attitude of road users in Australia- cars hate trucks, trucks hate cars, everyone hates 4wds with bullbars bit we are talking about 25 kg cycles- they can not hurt you. Where does this animosity/bullying come from? What is the issue if you have to wait for a minute before you pass them? If cyclists do the wrong thing, they get hurt, not the other drivers. Whether people like it or not, it is the way of the future.

[Chad]

this is the crux of the matter for you, isn't it ?

Someone is getting away with something that you can't !

It's straight out envy !

Mate i will be honest i do envy alot of things, but.....

Following a GUY looking at his Bum in tights isn't one of them...

But on a serious NOTE....

Why do you believe that a NON PAYING, NON INSURED VEHICLE, be allowed on OUR public ROADS??

What part of that, cannot you understand is the Problem..

Then when the 80% of cyclists that do, the wrong thing, cut people off, speed up past pedestrians, go through RED lights, ride Between cars, lean on cars, Shall I go on...

Like posted previously, Motorists prob aren't much better, but at least the Police, etc.. are trying to stop the IDIOTS...at the Moment you all have free reign to do what you like, and most of you do...

Anyways, i have learnt from living NEAR Public Servants, and the TYPICAL cyclist, that we can Never reason with them...

As clearly shown here.....

If you are so LAW abiding, ALL about EXERCISE and it is YOUR right to be on the road....why NOT CONTRIBUTE to the upkeep, keep yourself insured, and follow Common sense and RESPECT....

[big guy]

Well written Thommo. Well thought out post.

And a cyclist leaning on my vehicle is never going to be a good situation for the rider! I've had this a few times and it's always ended with the cyclist copping a smack in the head...

Tombie- you are a very clever man, you are saying that a cyclist leaned on your vehicle and you smacked him on the head.

Why, its not called for.
I have seen many a fight break out by silly incidences like this.
Never underestimate a person, a smack in the head is assault, do it to the wrong person and you will have your hands full.
I have seen it a few times on the road and many times in my bar.
Its not worth it, please take my word for it.

Let it go and be happy, I know from your many posts that you are smarter than this, how quickly things can turn nasty when one gets assaulted is more amazing than the facts some are quoting here on how some cyclists are behaving.

[big guy]

Mate i will be honest i do envy alot of things, but.....

Following a GUY looking at his Bum in tights isn't one of them...

But on a serious NOTE....

Why do you believe that a NON PAYING, NON INSURED VEHICLE, be allowed on OUR public ROADS??

What part of that, cannot you understand is the Problem..

Then when the 80% of cyclists that do, the wrong thing, cut people off, speed up past pedestrians, go through RED lights, ride Between cars, lean on cars, Shall I go on...

Like posted previously, Motorists prob aren't much better, but at least the Police, etc.. are trying to stop the IDIOTS...at the Moment you all have free reign to do what you like, and most of you do...

Anyways, i have learnt from living NEAR Public Servants, and the TYPICAL cyclist, that we can Never reason with them...

As clearly shown here.....

If you are so LAW abiding, ALL about EXERCISE and it is YOUR right to be on the road....why NOT CONTRIBUTE to the upkeep, keep yourself insured, and follow Common sense and RESPECT....


I can sense a dislike for cyclists here---Dislike to lycra clad blokes---and dislike on how we behave on the road.

Do me a favour and stay off the road. Its that simple. Move to the country, grow vegies and sit under a tree.

In the big smoke we must learn to share the road.

Don't sweat the little things mate, make it jovial or take the **** but please do not offend. Its offensive and that is worse than ignorant.

[CraigE]

Yes, that's correct Craig. In WA at least, an accredited pilot has exactly the same powers as a police officer when it comes to directing traffic whilst in control of an oversize load (as do authorised lollypop operators at roadworks sites etc - fail to stop at the lollypop when directed to do so and see where it gets you). But unfortunately, the reporting of "offences" is only really possible when you can quote a recognizeable means of identification, such as a registration number.

Having mentioned one of the examples of problems I have had with cyclists while in this job, to be fair I should also mention that I had far more frequent problems with complete muppets driving cars on the roads in relation to oversize loads. You wanna try blocking off all traffic (in both directions) on the bridge at the bottom of Greenmount. Yes, there is plenty of room for them to pass (especially in the opposite direction), but when the load is above a certain weight (axle loading) it is illegal for the load to be on the bridge at the same time as any other traffic (in case the bridge fails). Often the easiest way to do this is to call up a large truck approaching from the opposite direction and ask him to swing across the road a bit and block both lanes for you. ;)

I do know its not much fun to be on a road directing traffic or worse attending accident scenes when clowns just do not slow down or give way. Same even on mine sites when doing similar or instructing users or even breath testing.

[RoverP6B]

Just watched Catalyst on the ABC, a piece on obesity amongst children. Overweight and obese people costs Australia 21 Billion dollars per year,...that is $21,000,000,000 per year.

Here is a link to substantiate the figure.

OVERWEIGHT AND OBESITY COSTS AUSTRALIA OVER $21 BILLION PER YEAR | Australian Medical Association (http://www.ama.com.au/node/5371)

The majority of the population need to eat less and move more. Leave the car at home, ride a bike instead...:)

Ron.

[rick130]

Mate i will be honest i do envy alot of things, but.....

Following a GUY looking at his Bum in tights isn't one of them...

But on a serious NOTE....


:lol2: I'll pay that.


Why do you believe that a NON PAYING, NON INSURED VEHICLE, be allowed on OUR public ROADS??

What part of that, cannot you understand is the Problem..

Because it's legal, and always has been.

Horses are legal to be ridden on the road too, we often do that in these parts and I haven't noticed a rego plate hanging off any of them, oh, that's right, they don't need to be either.


If you are so LAW abiding, ALL about EXERCISE and it is YOUR right to be on the road....why NOT CONTRIBUTE to the upkeep, keep yourself insured, and follow Common sense and RESPECT....

I do, all our vehicles, trailers and floats are registered and fully insured.
Why on earth would I register my treadlies when no rego is required ?

Your arguments sound so much like Mr Scruby arguing why 4WD's should be banned from the city, which personally wouldn't affect me in the slightest as the closest city is something like 2.5 hours away from here but i believe we all have the right to own a 4WD regardless of where you live as it's they are a legal conveyance, and mostly 4Wder's are pretty decent people.
Cycling is much the same, most of those I've met over the years are good people and follow the rules, but i've never lived and commuted in a city either.

[Didge]

Well this has become a sort of religious debate, hasn't it. God exists, no he doesn't, yes he does, doesn't, does, doesn't. It's probably time to agree to disagree guys 'cos the two sides will never come together (here that is); maybe they will on the road and if they do it usually ends one way, despite the "right" to put oneself in danger.
ps reminds me - did ya hear about the dyslexic agnostic. He couldn't make up his mind if dog really existed - b-boom :)
pps interesting comment earlier - comparing cyclists to sheep and cattle

[Thommo]

If cyclists do the wrong thing, they get hurt, not the other drivers. Whether people like it or not, it is the way of the future.

So many years ago when I was stepping out of a Postie Van onto the footpath and a cyclist cut off of the road, onto the path to avoid the lights at the intersection, collected me and broke 2 ribs and punctured my lung. Does this mean cyclist do not inflict injury! (Not to mention everyone's mail scattered all over the pavement).

The driver of the truck that killed a cyclist who was hanging onto the rear tray and went under the wheels does not suffer depression and anxiety issues after such an incident? I personally was involved in a incident with a pedestrian who was critically injured as a result of his foolish actions and the driver had to live with the consequences. Luckily I was a witness in the defence of the driver who otherwise would have been held responsible by default.

The cyclist who deliberately cut in front of a bus in an act of road rage causing the driver to hit the brakes sending dozens of passengers flying did not cause any injury? (This is a very common incident which I often find myself investigating)

I have dozens more examples where cyclists have caused injury but I am not trying to demean cyclists with my posts. I am just looking for cyclists to acknowledge that they need to be responsible for their actions which some posts are starting to acknowledge but too many here are just trying to defend actions of one side or the other. I loathe to go down the rego/insurance angle for push bikes but tell me how do we hold cyclists responsible for their actions? (Please cyclists tell me how?)

I was never able to identify the cyclist who punctured my lung as he did not have to provide proof of identity to the police who attended (whilst I was being carted away in an ambulance).

I have not in any of my posts re this subject requested of cyclist to do anything other than:
Obey the law
Be responsible
Use common sense
Is this too much to ask?
For most of the cyclists I encounter it is asking to much! (just as asking all motorists to do the same)
Now will the pro cycling members stop trying to justify your actions and just realise the status quo is already weighted in favour of the cyclist at the expense of the motorist, be grateful for what privileges you do have. Yes cycling will be with us for a long time to come and cycling needs to be incorporated into the often lacking transport systems we have but cyclists must also be mindful of other road (and path) users.

[Dave_S]

I loathe to go down the rego/insurance angle for push bikes but tell me how do we hold cyclists responsible for their actions? (Please cyclists tell me how?)

I was never able to identify the cyclist who punctured my lung as he did not have to provide proof of identity to the police who attended (whilst I was being carted away in an ambulance).

Cyclists are responsible for their actions under the law in every State and Territory in Australia. This liability may be both civil and criminal.

It is easy for a cyclist to obtain insurance - for example, you get it automatically when you join Bicycle Queensland.

If the police attend an accident they can require any cyclist involved to provide proof of identity. Depending upon the circumstances, failure to do so may be an offence and the cyclist may be arrested, or held until the cyclist's identity is ascertained.

These are not difficult questions and all have simple answers. There is no reason for hysteria.

[Dave_S]

For a slight change of pace, if you want to see just what is possible on a fancy carbon road bike while wearing lycra, check this out:

YouTube- Amazing stunt riding...on a carbon road bike

Make sure you watch for the backflip at the end.

[dullbird]

I could of done that in a skirt...:lol2:

[windsock]

Why do you believe that a NON PAYING, NON INSURED VEHICLE, be allowed on OUR public ROADS??

What part of that, cannot you understand is the Problem..

I don't understand where you state...


OUR public ROADS??

... and seek to exclude some public from them.

[big guy]

Can we just go riding now????:p:p:p:p

[Thommo]

Cyclists are responsible for their actions under the law in every State and Territory in Australia. This liability may be both civil and criminal.

It is easy for a cyclist to obtain insurance - for example, you get it automatically when you join Bicycle Queensland.

If the police attend an accident they can require any cyclist involved to provide proof of identity. Depending upon the circumstances, failure to do so may be an offence and the cyclist may be arrested, or held until the cyclist's identity is ascertained.

These are not difficult questions and all have simple answers. There is no reason for hysteria.

No hysteria from me just dealing in facts:

My statement was "how do we hold cyclists responsible", I was not asking if they are legally responsible. Currently there is no discernible way to identify a cyclist involved in incidents unlike cars.

Yes police may/can/should obtain details from a cyclist involved in an incident (if they attend) but they will only bonafide the details if they suspect the information is bogus (in my own personal incident the rider gave false/misleading details to which the police where unable to follow up). The number of cyclists that are involved in or cause incidents and just ride away is discerning. I have been involved in the investigation of numerous cyclists involved incidents where this has occurred and the innocent parties are left responsible. (I am a "prescribed officer" with the powers to demand details in certain situations under various acts, yet if someone chooses to give me false details, notably someone who claims to not have ID etc with them, I have to request police to bonafide them but I have no specific powers to physical hold them until this can be achieved).

Yes cyclists can obtain insurance through the various cycling bodies (and a great idea which I support) but there is no compulsion to carry insurance like motor vehicles.

I am afraid that it appears most in the Pro Cycling lobby will just never admit they are part of the same group of road users who need to be responsible in the same or similar manner.

Now I can see someone will dissect my latest replies yet again and question my statements. Can not anyone from the Pro Cycling supporters just acknowledge that there is inadequacies with holding cyclists responsible for their actions?

[Dave_S]

Now I can see someone will dissect my latest replies yet again and question my statements.


Someone else might, but there is little point. A person doesn't have to be a cyclist to break the law and behave badly. You (and several others above, particularly Chad) have simply chosen an identifiable group to single out for undeserved abuse.

You are driven by exactly the same motivation as those who demand that four wheel drives be banned. Self righteous indignation and vitriol is often entertaining but rarely persuasive. Your arguments are anecdotal rather than factual and take little account of reality. In short, you've got nothing.

As big guy suggests, it's time to ride some bikes.

[abaddonxi]

They have been listening.
road speed | road safety (http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/putting-a-brake-on-traffic-speed-across-inner-city-to-protect-cyclists-20100624-z3py.html)

[windsock]

They have been listening.
road speed | road safety (http://smh.drive.com.au/motor-news/putting-a-brake-on-traffic-speed-across-inner-city-to-protect-cyclists-20100624-z3py.html)

Good article. We need it in many urban centres in NZ too.

This bit of logic doesn't make much sense to me though.



But the NRMA said reducing speed limits on suburban streets could worsen congestion.

"Dropping the speed limit to 40km/h on these roads could make an already congested road network even less efficient, while doing little to encourage more cycling,'' a spokesman said.


If everyone travels to their usual destination, leaving at the usual time, but travelling slower, how does this increase congestion if everyone supposedly sticks to the lowered speed limits?

EDIT: Thought about it over a coffee and some lunch.

If 20 drivers leave suburb A and need to drive through Suburb B enroute to 'burb C, they are going to take slightly longer to do it so are going to meet 20 folk on the road in the transited 'burbs enroute who they normally wouldn't drive with. Folk in 'burb A will either have to leave earlier or rely on the folk in 'burbs B & C to get on their bikes instead. Over time, the congestion will ease as more motorists see safer roads due to lower speeds and congestions are lessened... easy with a bit of caffeinated logic... :)

[Thommo]

Someone else might, but there is little point. A person doesn't have to be a cyclist to break the law and behave badly. You (and several others above, particularly Chad) have simply chosen an identifiable group to single out for undeserved abuse.

You are driven by exactly the same motivation as those who demand that four wheel drives be banned. Self righteous indignation and vitriol is often entertaining but rarely persuasive. Your arguments are anecdotal rather than factual and take little account of reality. In short, you've got nothing.

As big guy suggests, it's time to ride some bikes.

Thank You for agreeing that cyclists do break the law and behave badly (as indeed many other demographics may do). Thank You for supporting my point that cyclists are "identifiable" yet they are not held to account for their actions.
Please show me where I have given any undeserved abuse or indeed any abuse for that matter. (I think I have been very reasonable and polite).
Where have I called for cyclists to be banned or demonstrated any motivation to restrict or impede cyclists beyond what is reasonable discussion?
Please read all my posts and you will see my arguments are not anecdotal and are supported by many facts.

In length, I have over several posts pointed out problems that need to be addressed. If you perceive me as self righteous that is fine, I consider that I am giving reasonable argument for my case but as the moderator has already suggested many have made personal attacks on ones character (both sides).

Perhaps it is time this subject is closed (Luckily I am in a position to further my quest to address many of these issues) Part of one of the groups I am currently in a formal discussion group with, is the upgrading of a current busy metro road that is being considered for change to a "clearway" to which I am actively supporting measures to address cyclist safety/road safety in general.

Self righteous and vitriolic I think not.................:)

[Chad]

Im off this Topic, follow the Rules or Don't ride near me its as easy as that...

If your as Law abiding as you all say...

Then you won't get hit,

Good Luck and stay safe....

But remeber, the law of Physics Never changes, and the Larger, heavier, vehicle will Always win...

So don't CHALLENGE them, show some RESPECT and we should all be HAPPY..

If only it was that EASY....

And by the Way to all you LYCRA wearing Pansies...

Harden UP, i was only **** Stiring you, surely taking Offence to that isn't very Australian???

Take a BAG of CONCRETE with you SOY DECAFE SKINNY FRAPPE MOCHACINNIO, and Harden up a bit.....

Im a little annoyed how Sooky you all get...

Are we on a 4wd site, or talking bout knitting, or Quilting??

There is JOKES on here, about Gays, Muslims and Religion, and you are taking offence to some stirring about the BULGES, you like to show off in your Pretty little Lycra Underwear??

And to one of the previous Posts about me seeing Some of the HOTTIES he rides with, as much as I dislike you all, clogging the Roads 2 or 3 wide, there is definately some hotties in there tights.... Just a bit confronting on how much you should be paying attention, too the until you DECIPHER the SEX...

Chad

[cwebb]

I'm an extremely aware of cyclists type of driver.
15 or so years ago, whilst still in my teens, a driver opened their door on me whilst I was riding on the Great Western Highway at Blaxland in the mountains. Sent me flying into the second lane. If a car or truck had been coming past at the same time, it wouldn't have been pretty.

The fact is, it really doesn't take a lot to look out for cyclists. They are extremely vunerable on the roads and will always come off second best. That doesn't excuse some of their behaviour, mind you.

As a 'summer cyclist', (I can't stand riding in the cold winter months in Melbourne!), it irritates me when many of them don't obey road rules, but that goes for vehicles as well.

Before turning corners etc, I tend to look at parts of the road where cyclists could be, and I check my mirror before opening my door. I don't want to be responsible for injuring them.

Cheers
Chris

[RoverP6B]

Thommo wrote,...
So many years ago when I was stepping out of a Postie Van onto the footpath and a cyclist cut off of the road, onto the path to avoid the lights at the intersection, collected me and broke 2 ribs and punctured my lung. Does this mean cyclist do not inflict injury! (Not to mention everyone's mail scattered all over the pavement).

Hello Thommo,

I am sorry that this happened to you, not nice at all. I know that I have never ridden in a manner such as that, and I would doubt that any other cyclist that spends large sums of money on his or her bike would be riding like that either. Having said that there are many bikes that don't cost near as much, and riders that use them in a less than professional manner.

I think that the popularity of cycling as a sport although it is gradually building in Australia maybe a contributing factor to the agitation that does exist between motorists and cyclists from time to time. In Europe where cycling is huge and population densities far higher than in Australia and our cities, there is nothing like the problems that we experience here.

Cycling as a sport is the world's second largest, only Soccer is more popular. The Tour de France is the world's largest annual sporting event, only exceeded in popularity by the Olympic games and world cup soccer, both of which only occur every 4 years. To compare how popular cycling and cyclists (pro racing cyclists) in Europe are compared to sports and sports people in Australia is just not possible.

Cycling is a great sport, extremely tough with the top professional cyclists amongst the fittest humans on earth. You only have to look at their V02 readings for this to be confirmed. The current world road champion is Australian Cadel Evans, and he has one of the highest readings of any athlete tested at the Australian Institute of Sport in Canberra.

Cozy Beehive: Science Of Cadel Evans From Dr. David Martin | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/note.php?note_id=281946614316&comments&ref=mf)

Cycling is a great sport,..what is there not to like...:)

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/260.jpg

Ron.

[Matman]

I can get around a round about, about as quick on my bike as a P plater in a WRX and cars just don't expect that so you get to assume that they are going to hit you and so you make allowances to be able to stop in mid flight around the things for those drivers. A mate I ride with had to come to a screeching stop one day in his car as I rode around one, that cost him!

Truck drivers, nothing! Try coach drivers, they would have to be schooled in how to kill cyclists.

Two abreast, well that is legal in NSW. Suck it up.

Over the crest at 100k and nowhere to go to avoid the cyclists? What if it was a cow on the road or a great hole or your mothers car broken down or a horse and cart or tractor or roo or your child who had run onto the road to wave to the cyclists... If you are going over a crest at a speed that you can not stop in the visible road then slow down!

So cyclists can ride at 60km/hr over a hill?How slow do you have to go in a hundred zone before someone else runs up your ass?And i did manage to avoid him but it wasnt speed related as some one doing 40km/hr would have done the same thing.My aunty ran up the back of a bus and she was only doing 60km/hr as the dopey idiot was parked in the middle of a lane over a crest of a hill,now she gets around on crutches.And motor cycle riders arent allowed to ride two abreast for safety reasons why do cyclists think they have the right to do it.

[big guy]

So cyclists can ride at 60km/hr over a hill?How slow do you have to go in a hundred zone before someone else runs up your ass?And i did manage to avoid him but it wasnt speed related as some one doing 40km/hr would have done the same thing.My aunty ran up the back of a bus and she was only doing 60km/hr as the dopey idiot was parked in the middle of a lane over a crest of a hill,now she gets around on crutches.And motor cycle riders arent allowed to ride two abreast for safety reasons why do cyclists think they have the right to do it.

We don't think we have the right to ride two abreast, we DO have the right.

A motorbike has a motor-- Simple really-- makes noise -- has proper lights and dominates the road much more than a bike with pedals.

Come on guys, its not rocket science. Give a cyclist some room as we are here to stay and the more we ride the better we look in lycra and the less we clog the health system with obesity related illnesses.

Slow down and live and let us do the same.:cool:

[DiscoStew]

...
And to one of the previous Posts about me seeing Some of the HOTTIES he rides with, as much as I dislike you all, clogging the Roads 2 or 3 wide, there is definately some hotties in there tights.... Just a bit confronting on how much you should be paying attention, too the until you DECIPHER the SEX...
Chad

mmm, sometimes it can be difficult to pick gender at a glance but I suggest that if you cannot tell the difference from 50m between a lycra-clad male backside sticking in the air and a female one then you haven't noticed all the curves a women has. And hey, if it's pretty anyway what does it matter :angel:

[CraigE]

We don't think we have the right to ride two abreast, we DO have the right.

A motorbike has a motor-- Simple really-- makes noise -- has proper lights and dominates the road much more than a bike with pedals.

Come on guys, its not rocket science. Give a cyclist some room as we are here to stay and the more we ride the better we look in lycra and the less we clog the health system with obesity related illnesses.

Slow down and live and let us do the same.:cool:

Obvously you have never ridden motorbikes on the road. Even when I was on bright red bikes, hi viz riding gear and headlights on often I was sure I was invisible.

[Greatsouthernland]

I have no problem with cyclists in the city (probably because I am never there!), it's the cyclists in the country that bother me.

Those who live in or near Adelaide will know the roads through the hills where cyclists tend to ride in the middle of the road/2 abreast. I've nearly cleaned them up before.

In fact once while heading home along Mt. Compass - Goolwa road, around a sharp bend there were a group of cyclists, maybe 10-15 taking up a whole lane, and part of the next one! I had to lock up the brakes and still only just missed them. They got a mouthful I can tell you that.

In my honest opinion, bikes simply shouldn't be allowed on 100k windy roads, unless they are mountain bikes who ride on the shoulder.

Exactly the problem. Just as bikes are not permitted on the SE freeway, country roads are even WORSE with no shoulder runoff or emergency stopping lane like the freeway :eek: so why would an intelligent person put themselves in that position? Worse still try to FORCE their perceived right :confused:

MY biggest gripe, when I was a kid riding my treadly on the road, and even now (very occasionally, never NEVER on roads with speeds above 60kph) I USE(D) A MIRROR SO I CAN SEE WHAT IS COMING BEHIND ME AND MOVE OVER OR GET OFF THE ROAD IF NECESSARY!! AGAIN, what intelligent person navigates a road WITHOUT A MIRROR:eek: :confused: thereby peddling along ignorantly and blissfully unaware of what is behind and ASSUMING that good manners and hyper-alertness will be displayed by all drivers.

As an ex motorcyclist, occasional cyclist, and parent teaching kids to ride....to all the wannabe Lances and Lancets - GET A MIRROR AND USE IT.

Should be law I reckon.

[Slunnie]

Personally, I think if car drivers cant drive safely with bike riders on the road, then they should remove cars from the roads. Bunch of tin wearing pansy's break a sweat just getting in to the car.

On a roundabout note though, bike riders disappear behind the A pillar. Riders should look for eye contact with drivers, not just that the vehicle has stopped.

[Cliffy]

Got no problem with riders if they obey the road rules.
I head up the hill every Sat morning where I have to contend with "packs" of riders who somehow think they are safe and their school of bikes will somehow as if by magic, protect them from cars.
They often ride 3-4 wide across the road with double white lines at 1kph.
So does that mean I a) break the law to get around them by overtaking on a white line or b) give them a horn blast and try and remind them that they are breaking the law?
As soon as you try and tell them anything you are 9 times out of 10 met with abuse and obscene gestures.
Just today a rider cut me off by turning from the left of the lane I was in, did a u turn on a double white and headed back down the hill and not once did he look over his shoulder.
I have seen other near misses too.

[MR LR]

I think cyclists also need to be more aware of their surroundings, physics dictates that a 100kg mass moving at 25km/h should be observing what a 2700kg mass moving at 120km/h behind them is doing... Same goes for the obligatory 'slam on the brakes if there is any danger, no matter how close the B double is behind you' mob.

Everyone needs to be more aware on the road. Take a look in your mirror before dropping the anchors completely.

Cheers
Will

[Slunnie]

Got no problem with riders if they obey the road rules.
I head up the hill every Sat morning where I have to contend with "packs" of riders who somehow think they are safe and their school of bikes will somehow as if by magic, protect them from cars.
They often ride 3-4 wide across the road with double white lines at 1kph.
So does that mean I a) break the law to get around them by overtaking on a white line or b) give them a horn blast and try and remind them that they are breaking the law?
As soon as you try and tell them anything you are 9 times out of 10 met with abuse and obscene gestures.
Just today a rider cut me off by turning from the left of the lane I was in, did a u turn on a double white and headed back down the hill and not once did he look over his shoulder.
I have seen other near misses too.

They're allowed to ride 2 abreast in a lane, this is stated in the law. Theyre not allowed to ride more than 2 abreast in a lane.

Just like a car driver expects the following people to not hit them, so does a rider.

Of course they will tell anybody that does that to :censored: because their thought process is entirely about their needs in exactly the same way as those riders who are hogging the road quite probably are thinking entirely about their own needs. The only options are listed above are blasting the horn at them or breaking the law with an illegal passing manouve and these are both entirely focussed on the driver not having to slow down. Note that the option to blast the horn is because they are riding illegally but the first option is to illegally pass then which risks the lives of the riders, the driver and oncoming drivers/riders.

Forgotten option C is to be patient and foster a safe environment by passing when suitable and legal.

I also think that nobody can throw rocks about illegal and negligent conduct on the road, it happens epidemically from both cars and riders - riders will pay the price for it though.

[Mick_Marsh]

They often ride 3-4 wide across the road with double white lines at 1kph.
Yep. Get that here too. When I
give them a horn blast and try and remind them that they are breaking the law?
Then I am
met with abuse and obscene gestures.
Funny, that.

Perhaps the title of this thread should be "Driver aware cyclists..... Are you one?"
Saw an interesting thing the other day. I stopped at a red light. It was very red. A cyclist swerved to avoid cycling into the rear of the car. What he was doing to nearly hit me in the rear, I have no idea. Then he cycled straight through the red light. The other cars gave way to him. They were probably stunned in disbelief. Then, a little ways down the road, BANG!
He rode into the back of a parked car.
Must have been blind.

Oh, on the subject of blind cyclists. We have a blind cyclist in town. Rides past my house often. A lot of people in town know him and watch out for him.
True story.

[V8Ian]

I'm so passionate about giving cyclists a metre clearance between them and my doors that I've welded a metre long 50x50 mm SHS to the left side of my bullbar, as a guide. :angel:

[Stuck]

The hatred some people feel for cyclists is like racism - born of sheer bloody minded ignorance and virtually incurable. It's amazing how often people refer to the colour of cyclists' skin. I believe the word used is "lycra".
Nobody was born wearing lycra. :D:D:D:wasntme:

[101RRS]

Cyclists think they have a god given right to ride across pedestrian crossings and get a shock and cannot understand when I do not give away to them :twisted:.
They are classed as motor vehicles so I have right of way - if they get off their bikes then that is different - legally they are pedestrians but when they are on their bikes they are motor vehicles.

Of course in NSW and the ACT and maybe other states cyclists must not ride on footpaths unless accompanied by a child so should not be riding on footpaths and across pedestrian crossings.

Garry

[bee utey]

I'm so passionate about giving cyclists a metre clearance between them and my doors that I've welded a metre long 50x50 mm SHS to the left side of my bullbar, as a guide. :angel:
Aah, a comment from the "Toyota" end of the gene pool!:wasntme: Remind me to give your locality a miss when I go cycle touring. :p

As both a cyclist and a driver I really really resent the tendency to lump ALL cyclists together in one simplistic group. I DEFY anyone to prove that dumb cyclists, dumb pedestrians or dumb drivers come from anywhere other than the same society. As for common courtesy and decency it seems to be missing across a wide variety of pursuits these days.

Anyway, I suggest everyone out on the road get themselves a dash/helmet cam and fill youtube with their near misses. I'm sure that all that outrage generated online will make the roads a worse place for everyone. In the meanwhile I'll enjoy my riding and driving where the traffic is light, there's too many boofheads out there.

[Chucaro]

I'm so passionate about giving cyclists a metre clearance between them and my doors that I've welded a metre long 50x50 mm SHS to the left side of my bullbar, as a guide. :angel:

Do you carry a broom and shovel? :wasntme:
Sorry I can help it :(

[Mick_Marsh]

Do you carry a broom and shovel? :wasntme:
Sorry I can help it :(
I saw a fellow with a broom and shovel out on the street last Sunday.
Hes was following a horse and buggy.

[Cobber]

I try and do everything in my power to give cyclists as much room - and warning when in a heavy vehicle - as possible ... but sometimes cyclists don't do themselves any favours, particularly when they are riding in packs :mad:

Glad you are ok though. Probably a fright you could have done without! :o

[RHS58]

Interesting that there's the anticyclist brigade, and there's the anti 4WD brigade.
And now we have the 4wders against the cyclists, it seems.
I cycle and I 4wd. I see the world from both perspectives.
A few dickheads from either side tarnish the reputations of the majorities.
Tolerance and respect, guys. Suggest we all apply a little.
My 2 cents worth.

[disco man]

In Queensland our transport minister has come out in support of cyclists empowering them to take rego plate numbers and report motorists for dangerous driving.Yet there is no way for the motorist to report the cyclist for dangerous cycling,is that fair?**** no!!!

When the idea was suggested that cyclist also have rego plates the reaction from the transport minister was to claim it was to costly and unneeded and the cycling lobby very happy with that call.That is a case of Government creating division.

Do i see some ****house bike riding yes,but no more than i see rubbish driving,Do i get ****ed off when cyclist take up a whole lane riding in a try-hard tour-de-townsville pack hell yes,but no more than a ****** trying to attach his bumper bar on my tow bar while tailgating.

Both sides are as bad as each other,i personally think motorist should have some way of reporting cyclist that are breaking the law and as cyclist have the same rights on the road as motorists then why should they not have to pay some form of fee.

And before people say i already pay rego on my car so why should i have to pay again,my way of thinking is anything that travels on the road and has all the rights as other road users should have to pay for the right just like any other vehicle.Pensioners pay to use mobility scooters which stay out of the way of traffic and are the only way those people can get around so why should the cyclists get away without paying.

And before anybody asks yes i do ride a bike when i am home from the mine,i ride my daughters to school and back everyday i am home and would be more than happy to display a rego plate on my bike and pay for the right to use the road. And i can't drive and hold a measuring tape out the window to maintain the required 1m distance when i drive past a mamil:(

[Homestar]

I find it far easier just to be patient with all road users. I give cyclists respect and room. I used to ride a couple of hundred k's a week (believe it or not...:D) so I have always done this. I ride a motorbike a bit now, and I believe that has made me a better and more aware driver.

Life's too short to be bitching at each other all the time for our chosen form of transport. Chillax everyone.:)

[bee utey]

Yet there is no way for the motorist to report the cyclist for dangerous cycling,is that fair?**** no!!!



Spare me your outrage, when maaad cyclists kill their first 100 motorists Australia wide they can have rego plates on their backs. Till then take a deep breath and swear that you're better than them.

[disco man]

Spare me your outrage, when maaad cyclists kill their first 100 motorists Australia wide they can have rego plates on their backs. Till then take a deep breath and swear that you're better than them.

What outrage? Where did i even suggest mad cyclist killing people?or anybody killing anybody for that matter? When did i even mention i was better than anybody else?

I said both sides are as bad as each other,is that good enough for you?
If you can tell me a way a motorist can make a complaint against a cyclist without knowing who they are speak up.

Why are you making this personal? At no stage have i said i am better than anyone else you seem to think you are far better than me why is that?

[bee utey]

What outrage? Where did i even suggest mad cyclist killing people?or anybody killing anybody for that matter? When did i even mention i was better than anybody else?

I said both sides are as bad as each other,is that good enough for you?
If you can tell me a way a motorist can make a complaint against a cyclist without knowing who they are speak up.

Why are you making this personal? At no stage have i said i am better than anyone else you seem to think you are far better than me why is that?
The outrage?

**** no!!!

It's not an attack against you personally, just against the commonly held notion that cyclists need to be registered and reported for bad behaviour. What I'm saying is that your comment is exactly like the ones I read in posts all over the internet, and I'm tired of it. Look, If I spent my entire time on the road reporting the bad behaviour of ALL the cretinous users out there, I'd need a secretary, a permanent line to the police and a driver. It's not necessary. Leave the job to the police to deal with, they will eventually catch up with the miscreants if they get out of control.

What next, rego plates on pedestrians?:p

Cheers and have a drink.:)

[bob10]

There is room for both cars & cycles on the road, if there is mutual respect. It was reported that in Brisbane , in the first week of these new laws, around 40 bike riders were charged by Police for traffic offences. If bike riders are made to obey the road rules, same as car drivers, I'm ok with that. Bob

[disco man]

The outrage?


It's not an attack against you personally, just against the commonly held notion that cyclists need to be registered and reported for bad behaviour. What I'm saying is that your comment is exactly like the ones I read in posts all over the internet, and I'm tired of it. Look, If I spent my entire time on the road reporting the bad behaviour of ALL the cretinous users out there, I'd need a secretary, a permanent line to the police and a driver. It's not necessary. Leave the job to the police to deal with, they will eventually catch up with the miscreants if they get out of control.

What next, rego plates on pedestrians?:p

Cheers and have a drink.:)

Cool mate no dramas well said :)

[frantic]

Rego for all cyclists makes no sense, BUT zoned rego would ;)
To ride in inner city high traffic areas or roads 60kph plus you need to understand road rules, use the cycle lanes , that in Sydney have replaced lanes used by cars, and not block traffic flow. This should require some form of rego.
As to registering pedestrians, why do you think so many roads have fences down the middle? Would it be to stop the iPod/Bluetooth sheep from wandering into 4 plus lanes of traffic?

[Mick_Marsh]

When the idea was suggested that cyclist also have rego plates the reaction from the transport minister was to claim it was to costly and unneeded and the cycling lobby very happy with that call............

...............i personally think motorist should have some way of reporting cyclist that are breaking the law and as cyclist have the same rights on the road as motorists then why should they not have to pay some form of fee.

With you there , bro.

And before people say i already pay rego on my car so why should i have to pay again,my way of thinking is anything that travels on the road and has all the rights as other road users should have to pay for the right just like any other vehicle.
Using that logic, I should only have to pay one rego on one vehicle. After all, as people constantly remind me, I can only drive one vehicle at a time.

Pensioners pay to use mobility scooters which stay out of the way of traffic and are the only way those people can get around so why should the cyclists get away without paying.
Didn't know that.

[Mick_Marsh]

Spare me your outrage, when maaad cyclists kill their first 100 motorists Australia wide they can have rego plates on their backs. Till then take a deep breath and swear that you're better than them.
Don't know what it's like in SA, but here in Vic, they've been killing pedestrians.
In fact, accidents between cyclists and pedestrians have been increasing.

[AndyG]

Quote:
Originally Posted by V8Ian
I'm so passionate about giving cyclists a metre clearance between them and my doors that I've welded a metre long 50x50 mm SHS to the left side of my bullbar, as a guide.

Any idea where I can get those cool wheel hub accessories as featured in Ben Hur:wasntme:

Seriously live and let live and a dose of common sense.
When my son got his P plates we went for a run down the Newell, I emphasized that regardless of the rule book, B Doubles always win!

A question, when cyclists travel in a pentalon ? Is that actually legal, am thinking of the rules of keeping to the left, 2 abreast and not tailgating, sic.

[Mick_Marsh]

A question, when cyclists travel in a pentalon ? Is that actually legal, am thinking of the rules of keeping to the left, 2 abreast and not tailgating, sic.

That would (or should) be on a controlled event. If it was not a controlled event then, yes, road laws must be observed.
Otherwise, when Mr Plod stops you in your car and asks "Do you have a valid reason for speeding?", "Yes. I am participating in a Gunball rally." would be a valid reason an Mr Plod would apologise and let you on your way.

Last christmas, I was driving along. I drove up behind a pack of cyclists out on a morning ride. They took up so much road space they were from the gutter to two of the cyclists were cycling on the wrong side of the road. Oncoming traffic had to get right over.
In such massive groups, mob mentality takes over and any action to alert them of the error of their ways would had been met with a tirade of hostile abuse.
How does one report this blatant disregard of road law, that is why we require cycle registration. Not for children. For MAMILs.

[Slunnie]

A question, when cyclists travel in a pentalon ? Is that actually legal, am thinking of the rules of keeping to the left, 2 abreast and not tailgating, sic.

A peloton is legal, it's just a group of bikes. The law is 2 abreast in a lane, which works out to the same as a car width. In reality, it shouldn't make a lot of difference to cars if they are 3 wide within the lane, but 2 is the law. There are no spacings specified to the bike in front as far as I'm aware. The good thing about pelotons, is they should make it easier for cars to pass the bikes in one batch rather than passing a long line of strung out bikes.

[AndyG]

I was thinking of an article in the Australian last week where a driver did Some sudden braking, just to be a ****. The cyclists had a major pile up as they were head down bum up in a pack, and those behind the leaders had left no safe braking distance, I assume(!) safe following distance applies to all vehicles. Unless it is a authorized event with road closers,police etc.

Then there is/was the group who used Brighton rd in Melbourne. They would chant on on as they powered through red lights, eventually they killed someone.

Saying this I believe this a minority who just happen to be highly visible.

[Slunnie]

In such massive groups, mob mentality takes over and any action to alert them of the error of their ways would had been met with a tirade of hostile abuse.
How does one report this blatant disregard of road law, that is why we require cycle registration. Not for children. For MAMILs.
From everything I've ever seen within pelotons there are a lot of communication protocols up and down the pack in relation to hazards, oncoming and following cars. For small groups when there is a following car they pull into single file at the left, larger pelotons make sure they're in 2s and typically take the LHS and centre of the lane. Perhaps in the country we do things differently to those in the city. When a vehicle sits behind blowing on the horn or try's their best to sideswipe the riders, and people do, then of course they're going to be alerted to the error of their ways and will be met with a tirade of abuse. You report it the police in same way riders report FWICs. :D

[Mick_Marsh]

From everything I've ever seen within pelotons there are a lot of communication protocols up and down the pack in relation to hazards, oncoming and following cars. For small groups when there is a following car they pull into single file at the left, larger pelotons make sure they're in 2s and typically take the LHS and centre of the lane. Perhaps in the country we do things differently to those in the city. When a vehicle sits behind blowing on the horn or try's their best to sideswipe the riders, and people do, then of course they're going to be alerted to the error of their ways and will be met with a tirade of abuse. You report it the police in same way riders report FWICs. :D
Never had much cause to report the Federated Women's Institutes of Canada.
FWIC - What does FWIC stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary. (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FWIC)

Yep. And the police can't do much about it unless they know who you are reporting. That's why cyclists should display registration numbers.

[Slunnie]

Never had much cause to report the Federated Women's Institutes of Canada.
FWIC - What does FWIC stand for? Acronyms and abbreviations by the Free Online Dictionary. (http://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/FWIC)

Yep. And the police can't do much about it unless they know who you are reporting. That's why cyclists should display registration numbers.
In reality, the police dont do much about it anyway. They're pretty good at finding the right riders and the right cars though.

[Chucaro]

I never believe that this topic will show so much passion :eek:
I guess that the only way to be out of the controversy will be a tricyclist riding a tricycle :(

[Kev the Fridgy]

I really do not want to weigh into the debate as from what I have seen there is both good and bad on both sides of the argument but, as for the debate on Rego, if as most bike owners say they own a car why can't the rego for the bike be anexured off the car rego similar to the accessories plates we have in QLD or perhaps along the lines of the personal plates scheme, for example, a car rego of say LRD 001 could be annexed with LRD001B or similar at a small fee, it happens now with our licencing, boat, Jet Ski etc. In the event of an infringement the plate will register the owner by way of Dept of tpt. same goes for dash cam footage. For those without car ownership then you pay as one would expect you too, the fee for those without cars could be scaled based on age etc.


Earlier today I was travelling along the Hope Island road, wide lanes, dedicated bike lane and a good straight road, as approaching cyclist all of a sudden swerves into my lane and back, Kevy needed to swing right hand wheels across the centre line to avoid him.......... guess what he was doing/

[discovery39]

Texting?

[Sitec]

I recently had an argument with a cycling friend about cyclists on the road... It all started when she made the comment that she does not use the scenic cycle path local to us as there are too many crossings, and that its not suited to her training....! Instead, she likes to place herself between the new Armco (to protect the cyclists on the new path) and a semi... This opened a can of worms with me.. The argument then went on when she pronounced that the and her mates ride in groups of 4 (2 pairs of bikes side by side) taking up a car sized space.... as they think its safer!!!??? How stupid can you get?? Yes, I am cyclist friendly, when they are sensible enough to use the facilities provided and paid for by us the tax payer, and when they ride in and when they ride in an orderly line, but I get the ****s on when they are daft enough to ride side by side taking up a car space, and expect fully loaded semis to pull out and pass them... I for one know that if I'm driving a loaded semi around a blind bend at 80kph, and come across a group of cyclists in the middle of the road and there's a semi coming the other way at the same speed, I am not going to put myself in front of the oncoming semi!! At least in a line, they can be passed safely, and the trucks can also pass!!

[Slunnie]

The argument then went on when she pronounced that the and her mates ride in groups of 4 (2 pairs of bikes side by side) taking up a car sized space.... as they think its safer!!!??? How stupid can you get?? Yes, I am cyclist friendly, when they are sensible enough to use the facilities provided and paid for by us the tax payer, and when they ride in and when they ride in an orderly line, but I get the ****s on when they are daft enough to ride side by side taking up a car space, and expect fully loaded semis to pull out and pass them... I for one know that if I'm driving a loaded semi around a blind bend at 80kph, and come across a group of cyclists in the middle of the road and there's a semi coming the other way at the same speed, I am not going to put myself in front of the oncoming semi!! At least in a line, they can be passed safely, and the trucks can also pass!!
Actually, for a cyclist it is safer to ride side by side in lanes which the law states they can do legally. Most angry motorists, when the truth is to be told, really are upset because it has slowed them down. They really couldn't care less about the cyclists safety choices. When the cyclist rides in a single file on the left of the lane, only too regularly you end up with cars passing in the same lane with hardly an effort to move into the next lane and pass properly or safely - the prime concern for the driver is to get past without being inconvenienced by having to slow or change lanes. Many drivers think they can just squeeze on past with probably very little thought about how this can pushing the rider off the road, push the rider in to street drains or pot holes that bikes cant necessarily cope with, grazing or hitting the rider, or the significant effect that the wind pushed off some vehicles can have on the bike - most notably trucks.

When you ride side by side on the other hand it forces the driver behind to pass properly, as in actually use the indicators, make a proper and safe lane change and subsequently no railroad the rider into an accident like they do when they try to fit a bike and a car into a single lane.

I'd also hope a semi-driver is responsible enough not to ever drive around a blind bend at 80kmh - that would be incredibly negligent.

[bee utey]

I recently had an argument with a cycling friend about cyclists on the road... It all started when she made the comment that she does not use the scenic cycle path local to us as there are too many crossings, and that its not suited to her training....! Instead, she likes to place herself between the new Armco (to protect the cyclists on the new path) and a semi... This opened a can of worms with me.. The argument then went on when she pronounced that the and her mates ride in groups of 4 (2 pairs of bikes side by side) taking up a car sized space.... as they think its safer!!!??? How stupid can you get?? Yes, I am cyclist friendly, when they are sensible enough to use the facilities provided and paid for by us the tax payer, and when they ride in and when they ride in an orderly line, but I get the ****s on when they are daft enough to ride side by side taking up a car space, and expect fully loaded semis to pull out and pass them... I for one know that if I'm driving a loaded semi around a blind bend at 80kph, and come across a group of cyclists in the middle of the road and there's a semi coming the other way at the same speed, I am not going to put myself in front of the oncoming semi!! At least in a line, they can be passed safely, and the trucks can also pass!!

I've ridden your JB track a few times and enjoyed it, however I can sympathise with your friend. The bike track looks like it's been designed by a 14 year old to be ridden at the pace of an elderly donkey. It's extremely dangerous to be ridden at any great speed as the designers put blind corners, bollards, road crossings at right angles, sharp edged poles in the middle of the track, ridiculous gradients etc all over the place. A road cyclist riding at training speeds would definitely be safer riding on the road. If a main road was designed to such a poor standard there'd be outrage in all the national papers and the sound of ministers heads rolling. Bike track? Any rubbish standard will do. It's a slow recreational track, not a suitable track for speed. You should try the bit through Jacobs Creek if you want to experience extremely stupid path design. If it was a road you'd need 4wd.

Discussions of relative stupidity aside, basically if the riders are riding on the road, legally two by two, it's their right and the drivers of trucks have to allow for them. The bike track isn't a mandatory bike lane and cyclists aren't legally forced to use it. Now, personally I avoid that particular road like the plague (cos of too many idiot drivers out your way, mainly :o ) and use Calton/Balmoral Rds instead, but that's because I'm not a wannabe triathlete, just an old fart on an old MTB. :p

BTW I put up a JB track report here (http://lofty76.wordpress.com/2013/06/18/jack-bobridge-track-report-11-6-2013/) if you're interested in having a look.:)

[London Boy]

Glad your ok,BUT it makes it hard to avoid cyclists when your doing 100kays and you come over a crest of a hill and there sitting in the lane,and you have nowhere to go as there is a truck coming up the hill from the other direction,and the only way to avoid them is by hitting the grass up the inside of them,and make sure the traffic behind you doesnt run up your ass from braking so hard.
It's as well it's not a broken down haul truck sitting just over the crest then. Or a spillage of oil from that crashed tanker just a few yards further down. Or a tractor with his bucket at windscreen level. Seen all of those.

Easy to pick on cyclists who might be there on the road, but they're not all it could be.

[London Boy]

I recently had an argument with a cycling friend about cyclists on the road...
Stop calling them cyclists. Start calling them people. Or better yet, start calling them taxpayers, or ratepayers. You know, the people who fund the roads you use.

Don't get me on rego, btw. Rego (a) doesn't pay for the roads, it just pays to administer permits, and (b) doesn't stop motorists breaking the law, so how would it help with people who ride bikes?

[Epic_Dragon]

I think cyclists should pay rego. a lot (not all) are so stupid and dangerous on the road. riding on double lined no shoulder blind corners! how thst is legal will never know. I give as much room as I can but they need to remember they are not cars. they hsve no engine and are also responsible for not only their own safety but other road users too, cars included.

[Kev the Fridgy]

Texting?





WINNER!!!....... One of the reasons this debate will always only be a point scoring battle, while both sides (car owners and cyclists) drive/ride like dickhead idiots there will always be deaths no matter what laws are in place .....End of story

[loneranger]

are also responsible for not only their own safety but other road users too, cars included.

As are all road users which many including some members here appear to forget.

[Mick_Marsh]

Stop calling them cyclists. Start calling them people. Or better yet, start calling them taxpayers, or ratepayers. You know, the people who fund the roads you use.

Don't get me on rego, btw. Rego (a) doesn't pay for the roads, it just pays to administer permits, and (b) doesn't stop motorists breaking the law, so how would it help with people who ride bikes?
Yep. I'll modify my behavior.
Today, I was driving along and passed a few tax payers driving B doubles. I was passed by a rate payer in a Volvo not long after. One thing I did notice about these particular rate payers and tax payers, the vehicles they were driving were registered for road use and they had compulsory third party insurance just in case they injured someone. They also had an identification/registration plate affixed in case there was a need to identify them to the police.

[bee utey]

Cyclist registration is nowadays little more than a wish by disgruntled motorists who want petty revenge on lawbreaking cyclists, as the motorist feels he can no longer do the same without penalty. As for the real world, virtually no country in the world requires cyclists to be registered. Why??? Perhaps the benefits are far outweighed by the costs.

An article on cyclist registration. (http://ipayroadtax.com/licensed-to-cycle/licensed-to-cycle/)


Lots of countries used to have bike badge registration schemes: from Argentina to the Seychelles. In fact, the little tin badges are collectible, and can be found on specialist websites (http://www.pl8s.com/platestand-bikes.htm) and on eBay. The schemes were discontinued for the same reason dog licences were discontinued in the UK: administration of the schemes, such as the bicycle licensing by-law in Toronto (http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/safety/lisencing/history.htm) (created in 1935, ditched in 1957 and suggested but rejected in 1984, 1992 and 1996), always costs way more than the income.

If anyone really wants to push cycle registration in this country, (and make us the laughing stock of the civilised world) perhaps they should petition that crazy new Queensland independent to add it to his platform. :p Any other way it won't fly. It's way too unimportant on the grand scheme of problems facing the country.

[pop058]

Stop calling them cyclists. Start calling them people. Or better yet, start calling them taxpayers, or ratepayers. You know, the people who fund the roads you use.

Don't get me on rego, btw. Rego (a) doesn't pay for the roads, it just pays to administer permits, and (b) doesn't stop motorists breaking the law, so how would it help with people who ride bikes?

It would make them identifiable like all the other road users :D

[Mick_Marsh]

Cyclist registration is nowadays little more than a wish by disgruntled motorists who want petty revenge on lawbreaking cyclists, as the motorist feels he can no longer do the same without penalty. As for the real world, virtually no country in the world requires cyclists to be registered. Why??? Perhaps the benefits are far outweighed by the costs.

An article on cyclist registration. (http://ipayroadtax.com/licensed-to-cycle/licensed-to-cycle/)


Lots of countries used to have bike badge registration schemes: from Argentina to the Seychelles. In fact, the little tin badges are collectible, and can be found on specialist websites (http://www.pl8s.com/platestand-bikes.htm) and on eBay. The schemes were discontinued for the same reason dog licences were discontinued in the UK: administration of the schemes, such as the bicycle licensing by-law in Toronto (http://www.toronto.ca/cycling/safety/lisencing/history.htm) (created in 1935, ditched in 1957 and suggested but rejected in 1984, 1992 and 1996), always costs way more than the income.

If anyone really wants to push cycle registration in this country, (and make us the laughing stock of the civilised world) perhaps they should petition that crazy new Queensland independent to add it to his platform. :p Any other way it won't fly. It's way too unimportant on the grand scheme of problems facing the country.
So, what you are saying is, we are the laughing stock of the world because we still have dog registrations. There are a few threads on this site that would suggest dog registration is a good thing.

[Slunnie]

Great link :D


If pedestrians want to walk on our streets, which we pay for with all our driving taxes, then they need to pay their share and take their part of the responsibility. Anybody who walks anywhere should undergo training, should have to pay an annual tax towards the facilities they enjoy, should display a license plate so they can be identified, and should each be made to carry insurance in case they are ever involved in any accidents.

[AndyG]

Dare I suggest training and a test before you can drive any vehicle on a public , especially arterial road and above? Probably not as it is a right to operate an uninsured, unregistered vehicle on the road.

As an aside looking at a few USA sites the big issue appears to be cyclist on cyclist prangs , esp in packs/pelaton sand someone is injured and the lawyers get involved.

[rick130]

So using the logic put forward by some on here, anyone using a road should be registered ?

Therefore all the horses that are ridden on streets should have number plates hanging off their rumps ?
And any cart/carriage ?

and any individual in a mob of sheep or cattle moved on or grazing alongside a road be registered too ?

Don't laugh, I have horses ridden past my house every day, sometimes five or six kids at a time and I'm nowhere near a pony club, let alone the odd stockman and the occasional breaker.
Plenty of times I have to give way to a mob of sheep or cows on the roads around here and those buggers are a bloody menace, no idea of the road rules at all ! </saracsm off> :angel:

You are so vulnerable to injury and death from a car or truck on any form of bike, self powered or motorised and it's even worse on a horse that just a little respect and room goes a long way.

[pop058]

So using the logic put forward by some on here, anyone using a road should be registered ?

Therefore all the horses that are ridden on streets should have number plates hanging off their rumps ?
And any cart/carriage ?

and any individual in a mob of sheep or cattle moved on or grazing alongside a road be registered too ?

Don't laugh, I have horses ridden past my house every day, sometimes five or six kids at a time and I'm nowhere near a pony club, let alone the odd stockman and the occasional breaker.
Plenty of times I have to give way to a mob of sheep or cows on the roads around here and those buggers are a bloody menace, no idea of the road rules at all ! </saracsm off> :angel:

You are so vulnerable to injury and death from a car or truck on any form of bike, self powered or motorised and it's even worse on a horse that just a little respect and room goes a long way.

Without running off at tangents about speeding and drunk drivers, my comments are in relation to the interaction between cyclist and motorist. I agree there needs to be a little room and respect (to each other AND the law) given, but it is a 2 way street and the Lycra wearing mammals don't do themselves any favours IMHO. There are good and bad on both sides, but the cyclist sterotype has come from riders actions, not drivers.

[rick130]

Without running off at tangents about speeding and drunk drivers, my comments are in relation to the interaction between cyclist and motorist. I agree there needs to be a little room and respect (to each other AND the law) given, but it is a 2 way street and the Lycra wearing mammals don't do themselves any favours IMHO. There are good and bad on both sides, but the cyclist sterotype has come from riders actions, not drivers.

I'll counter that with the thought that the bulk of reaction to cyclists may come from the same agro that the average motorist feels towards 4Wders, or even bullbars.....

[86mud]

After what I saw yesterday, I am really annoyed. I ride a bike to and from work everyday, I keep hard left on the shoulder of the road, obey all road rules and keep well alert of what is going on around me. Life is just too short as it is.

Yesterday on Old Cleveland Road, at Camp Hill a group of female cyclists (so called professionals) were in the RIGHT HAND LANE heading inbound toward the city (2 lanes inbound, 2 lanes outbound). They were just dawdling along chatting between themselves as drivers had to take evasive action and all get into the left hand lane.

I was really appalled! this kind of cyclist behaviour makes it really hard for us cyclists who do the RIGHT thing on the road.

It really is a problem.

[jx2mad]

What upsets me is when cyclists ride two abrest on a single lane road with double yellow lines up the centre. Behind them is a long queue of cars who cannot overtake without breaking the law. It seems some cyclists don't care.

[DoubleChevron]

I have no issues with cyclists.... Unless of course there wearing lycra. I've found just about any cyclist that wears lycra is a moron ... They really do appear to all be window lickers who's stupidity defies belief. The last 3 times I've come across lycra wearing fools has been

twice: Lane sharing on country roads in 100km/h zones.... I've come over a crest or around a corner and found these utter *******s lane sharing using an entire lane ... If there had been oncoming traffic in both cases I'd have cleaned them up .... ( Yes I can already hear all the lycra wearers on the forum yelling "WE HAVE THE RIGHT" and shaking the fist at me). Sure it maybe legal to lane share on a public road.... On a country road in 100km/h zones == utter stupidity.

Last time it was one of these lycra wearing fools using a 3gigawat LED helmet light. They shone it into my eyes when I was looking for where they were........ I could see stars for about 3seconds... There lucky I didn't take out an oncoming car or the cyclist themselves.

I have this theory.... Anyone that rides a bike a wears lycra, should infact be riding a bus..... licking it's windows as they safety travel to there destination.

It's like their brain gets switched off as soon as they buy an expensive brand name bike and a set of lycra.

seeya,
Shane L..

[bee utey]

I have no issues with cyclists.... Unless of course there wearing lycra. I've found just about any cyclist that wears lycra is a moron ...
I wear lycra (in plain grey) because its comfortable, so please don't commit the fallacy of tarring everyone else with the stupid actions of the few.

[DoubleChevron]

I wear lycra (in plain grey) because its comfortable, so please don't commit the fallacy of tarring everyone else with the stupid actions of the few.

I have a problem though. The only cyclists that I see doing incredibly stuipd things ............ All have a couple of things in common:

1) they rushed out and bought a fancy brand named bike
2) they purchased lycra too wear
3) they completely forget the laws of physics as soon as they get on a bike.

I've ridden a pushbike a huge amount (mostly when I was younger). Not in a million years would I have been stupid enough to lane share where it was dangerous to do so. Certainly NEVER on country roads in 100km/h zones.

I never felt the need to ride in a pack deliberately stopping traffic.... I broke all the road rules a huge amount. I did what was safe. If the footpath was the safe place to be, that's where I am. Round-a-bout? That's me in the middle of the round-a-bout, I'm not sharing the smaller round-a-bouts with middle aged women in 4wds (don't ask, been there done that ... I've had middle aged women in 3ton 4wds push me off railway crossing into the tracks too). So round-a-bouts and railway crossings, I'm the asshole on the pushbike riding in the middle of the road.

I have no need for lycra, or an expensive brand name bike. I have a brain and are looking behind me almost as much as I'm looking forward (eg: riding across said railway crossing or round-a-bout ... YOu look behind first, cars there ?? Pull off the road, let them go first.... Sure you have right of way. You can tell that too the cops while there scraping you out of a **** tanks bullbar).

What ever happened to common sense? cyclists can scream "I have the right" all they want as I come over a crest doing 100km/h and squish them all over the road. ( You have no idea how much it scared the absolute crap out of us when we crested a hill at 100km/h and found two cyclists lane sharing.... My wife was sure they were dead, I've never swerved so hard at speed before.... They sure would be very squished, very dead riders if a car had come the other way. I had my wife and kids in the car. Window lickers riders bikes that are deliberately trying to commit suicide aren't high on my list of priorities).

Usually I get yelled down "what if it was a cow" ............. Well if it was a cow, yep, I'd have squished it too. Cows generally don't ride down the lane of a road for kilometers on end. They may cross a road if they get out of the paddocks, they sure as **** wont stand blocking a lane for kilometers at a time.

Next "lycra moron" comeback.... "WHAT IF IT WAS A TRACTOR" .... Wow if it was a tractor and I come over a crest/round a corner at 100km/h ..... For starters the suckers are usually about 3meters high and have a flashing light on the top. The tractor drivers also have brain ... Just over a crest or round a corner ??? Those suckers are waaaaaayyyyy off the road, usually dodging the scenery and trees. You see people in tractors usually have a brain.

seeya,
Shane L.

[isuzurover]

I drive and ride (as do all adult cyclists I know).

I have witnessed a lot more drivers do stupid/illegal things than cyclists.

Case in point, this morning I was stopped on the side of the road waiting for space to cross the road (being extra cautious as I know perth drivers lose the plot when the first winter rains fall). A car failed to notice that the 2 cars in front had stopped waiting to turn, and in order to avoid a collision the driver crossed into the cycle lane on the side of the road then mounted the kerb. Anyone in the cycle lane would have been taken out, and so would I have been if I was waiting a few metres further along the road.

If this were a thread about banning 4x4s with bull bars from driving in cities...

[DoubleChevron]

I drive and ride (as do all adult cyclists I know).

I have witnessed a lot more drivers do stupid/illegal things than cyclists.

Case in point, this morning I was stopped on the side of the road waiting for space to cross the road (being extra cautious as I know perth drivers lose the plot when the first winter rains fall). A car failed to notice that the 2 cars in front had stopped waiting to turn, and in order to avoid a collision the driver crossed into the cycle lane on the side of the road then mounted the kerb. Anyone in the cycle lane would have been taken out, and so would I have been if I was waiting a few metres further along the road.

If this were a thread about banning 4x4s with bull bars from driving in cities...

Yep, car drivers do really stupid things all the time, there isn't a morning that goes by that there isn't dozens of collisions between all the commuters .... So why do bike riders think there not going to get hit too ... when there smaller and can be completely hidden by the massive pillars in modern cars. ....

But these cars that "come together", the drivers have a fair chance of coming out of it ok. Now bike riders? They should have the brains to not ever put themselves in the situation in the first place. You'd never catch me riding in peak hour traffic. I don't care how many road rules there are saying I have the right too do so. You'll never find me lane sharing or deliberately holding up the traffic as a big group of riders.

It's simple common sense. If you ride in heavy traffic with cars, eventually you WILL get squished. The cars can't avoid hitting each other, what makes you think they wont hit something smaller and less visible.

I reckon these lycra wearers would be the same poeple that swim at a boat ramp then rave and rant about all the idiot boaters and how they should be banned.

seeya,
shane L.

[MBZ460]

I do about 6000km per year on my bike, to work.
I have noticed a lot of riders are wearing headphones now. Talk about adding even more risk.

And its funny how you legally have to have a bell or warning device for pedestrians but you very rarely see them on the lycra crew. Perhaps it stuffs their aerodynamics or add too much weight or something, or just not "cool"

I have noticed that there is a higher level of arrogance in these same type of riders (as opposed to general commuters) Because they have an expensive bike they assume you are slower, so hog the outside of the bike lane (even on the dedicated non-road bike lanes) And choosing to pass in the most dangerous congested parts to "maintain their momentum" instead of calming down a bit until they get to the safer bit, just up ahead. Or fly past you coming up to a red light (if they stop) to get in front, then faff about clipping in their pedals and slowing me up when the light goes green.

Anyway, I plenty of arrogant car action too. Especially early in the morning with all the tradies and "white van men" about.

/rant

[frantic]

Yep, car drivers do really stupid things all the time, there isn't a morning that goes by that there isn't dozens of collisions between all the commuters .... So why do bike riders think there not going to get hit too ... when there smaller and can be completely hidden by the massive pillars in modern cars. ....

But these cars that "come together", the drivers have a fair chance of coming out of it ok. Now bike riders? They should have the brains to not ever put themselves in the situation in the first place. You'd never catch me riding in peak hour traffic. I don't care how many road rules there are saying I have the right too do so. You'll never find me lane sharing or deliberately holding up the traffic as a big group of riders.

It's simple common sense. If you ride in heavy traffic with cars, eventually you WILL get squished. The cars can't avoid hitting each other, what makes you think they wont hit something smaller and less visible.

I reckon these lycra wearers would be the same poeple that swim at a boat ramp then rave and rant about all the idiot boaters and how they should be banned.

seeya,
shane L.
I've seen numerous accidents and been in a few, majority not my fault, and cannot think of one where if it had of been a cyclist involved instead of a car they would have walked away!
A van reversed into my defender 500 repair, cyclist would have broken leg and maybe head/neck injuries from fence. Statesman I had got t-boned by a car that went through stop sign we all walked away cyclist would have been dead. Roundabout pensioner decides to use my lane as well as his , his back panel meets my old rrc bullbar, 50c of paint for me new panel for him, cyclist would have been crushed between the gallons back tyre and roundabout.
My sister used to work and ride in the inner city of Sydney, against our advice, she got clipped by a barinas side mirror, fell off and broke both wrists causing permanent damage, being unable to do the chinups required by ADF she was out. Worked out better for her in the long run as she is now a manager in ADF public service canberra.

[Mick_Marsh]

and any individual in a mob of sheep or cattle moved on or grazing alongside a road be registered too ?
They already are.

[Mick_Marsh]

I'll counter that with the thought that the bulk of reaction to cyclists may come from the same agro that the average motorist feels towards 4Wders, or even bullbars.....
It is a thought, not fact and certainly not true.
Not all cyclists behave badly. A lot force their rights onto cars in an arrogant manner. I worked with a cyclist who did just that. It all came unstuck for him on his last day when he thought he had right of way over a bus. Whether he did or didn't have right of way is a moot point now.

[ATH]

When I was bus driving I had a courier swerve out in front of me in St Geos Tce in Perth, then because I tooted at him he swung his bike around and stopped dead!
I stopped but only just as he abused me and swore about his rights......but at least the idiot made my peak period passengers laugh with his ranting.
AlanH.

[AndyG]

I wear lycra (in plain grey) because its comfortable, so please don't commit the fallacy of tarring everyone else with the stupid actions of the few.

I hope you have a mask and phantom ring to complete the outfit.:p


(What am I doing wrong when I copy & paste:mad:

[pop058]

Without running off at tangents about speeding and drunk drivers, my comments are in relation to the interaction between cyclist and motorist. I agree there needs to be a little room and respect (to each other AND the law) given, but it is a 2 way street and the Lycra wearing mammals don't do themselves any favours IMHO. There are good and bad on both sides, but the cyclist sterotype has come from riders actions, not drivers.


I'll counter that with the thought that the bulk of reaction to cyclists may come from the same agro that the average motorist feels towards 4Wders, or even bullbars.....

Theres that tangent I mentioned :D

[Mick_Marsh]

I wear lycra (in plain grey) because its comfortable, so please don't commit the fallacy of tarring everyone else with the stupid actions of the few.

I hope you have a mask and phantom ring to complete the outfit.:p


(What am I doing wrong when I copy & paste:mad:
You should be using the quote button.

[Mick_Marsh]

I have witnessed a lot more drivers do stupid/illegal things than cyclists.
Hardly surprising. There are a lot more drivers than cyclists.

[rick130]

They already are.


C'mon Mick, an NLIS implant/tag isn't a rego plate......

[AndyG]

C'mon Mick, an NLIS implant/tag isn't a rego plate......

Now there's an idea, and I know just where to insert it, and it would be highly visible whilst in motion :p

Quoting achieved !

[rick130]

It is a thought, not fact and certainly not true.
Not all cyclists behave badly. A lot force their rights onto cars in an arrogant manner. I worked with a cyclist who did just that. It all came unstuck for him on his last day when he thought he had right of way over a bus. Whether he did or didn't have right of way is a moot point now.

I don't know why it may not be true, why are people so agro in general these days ?
It seems a lot of people need some sort of minority to vent at and feel superior to, and unfortunately a few couriers and bunch riders end up having the average driver tar everyone with the same brush, then a few newspaper columns and right wing shock jocks stir things up further.

What scares me when I'm riding is that the average punter just doesn't realise how vulnerable a cyclist/motor bike rider/horse rider is.

[Mick_Marsh]

C'mon Mick, an NLIS implant/tag isn't a rego plate......
No, but it is an identifying marker that is on a database and identifies the beast.
I think I'm being kind. I think some sort of identifying marker should be on the bikes. I'm not calling for a tag to be stapled to their heads but, if that's the way they want to go........


Oh, I would like to point out, I also cycle on occasions. I have three bikes. A Kia, a Peugeot and a Giant. I have been toying with getting another. I enjoy getting out on my bikes and never have a problem. I never ride more than two abreast, follow the road rules and always give way to anything bigger than me. I do not have a problem with putting a registration plate on my bikes should it be required.

[rick130]

No, but it is an identifying marker that is on a database and identifies the beast.
I think I'm being kind. I think some sort of identifying marker should be on the bikes. I'm not calling for a tag to be stapled to their heads but, if that's the way they want to go........


Oh, I would like to point out, I also cycle on occasions. I have three bikes. A Kia, a Peugeot and a Giant. I have been toying with getting another. I enjoy getting out on my bikes and never have a problem. I never ride more than two abreast, follow the road rules and always give way to anything bigger than me. I do not have a problem with putting a registration plate on my bikes should it be required.

I've never had a problem either and always found everyone here in my part of the world really courteous, but I know a few people that have been hit and they didn't come off too well.....

[frantic]

There is a big difference between a horse rider a motorbike and a cyclist, only one goes through high traffic areas causing jams and blocking traffic.
As I've said before cyclist rego for certain areas, inner city and over 60 kph roads.
The other thing that annoys is the head up the bum attitude claim that they are saving the environment! If they use cyclists and don't delay traffic it's true, but in reality they slow dozens of cars if not hundreds and cause far more fuel to be burnt than they would use driving a 8l f250 to work:mad:

[sam_d]

Yeah! Damn cyclists holding up the free flow of rego paying motorists....

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=71paO1HcJQI

[Slunnie]

Geez you anti cyclist drivers are wound up like like a spring! You fatties should relax and go for a ride - of course not on the road though! :D

[Ausfree]

Just wondering........if you can legally ride a bicycle on a road, can you also ride a tricycle, scooter or billy cart on the road, they are also human propelled.

Just asking!!!:twisted:

[sheerluck]

I must admit, I'm a bit of a hypocrite when it comes to cyclist versus motorist, depending whether I'm in the driving seat or the saddle. However, I follow the road rules more closely as a cyclist than I do as a motorist. Mainly because the potential to get wiped out is greater on two wheels.

I've had a few close calls as a cyclist, the best of which was a silly cow in a car who stopped dead in front of me, she thought the light for our filter lane had turned to red, when it was the other direction that had changed. I ended up with my face pressed against her rear screen. :nazilock:

[MR LR]

Geez you anti cyclist drivers are wound up like like a spring! You fatties should relax and go for a ride - of course not on the road though! :D
I went for a ride this evening, 15k round trip, I found out I haven't lost any fitness since I last did it so the bike can be stowed away for another 3 months while I burn petrol :D

[Sitec]

When you ride side by side on the other hand it forces the driver behind to pass properly, as in actually use the indicators, make a proper and safe lane change and subsequently no railroad the rider into an accident like they do when they try to fit a bike and a car into a single lane.



I'd also hope a semi-driver is responsible enough not to ever drive around a blind bend at 80kmh - that would be incredibly negligent.

So, if a car/truck is forced to slow and change lanes because a car space is taken, then rego should be paid for that car space that's also taken....



Most hilly, narrow and windy roads have blind corners every few kms... which have Armco, double white lines and an indication of the danger ahead... A corner is approached in readiness for problems, but if everyone was to drive dangerous roads as tho there will be an issue around the next bend then we'd all be doing 10kph.... If the cyclist is in single file, then there is safely room to pass (given, many do not leave enough space, but there is still room). If there is a block of 4 cyclists, there is not room.. I now hear you say 'what about slow moving vehicles?' They are usually large, well lit and can be seen over the top of fences etc... something a block of cyclists can't.. (Worst case scenario if there is a big thump both parties are usually ok as both items are solid)..


I'm not trying to be negative about this, I've just seen lots of 'close calls' with cars getting around blocks of cyclists, but I've seen few issues with people overtaking a line of cyclists. Yes, we all need to be more forgiving and cyclist aware.... BUT in the same breath, our cycling friends need to think more about their safety on fast narrow busy roads and remember that they are not in a safe cocoon when riding in a block of 4. They are in fact just the opposite..

[loneranger]

What upsets me is when cyclists ride two abrest on a single lane road with double yellow lines up the centre. Behind them is a long queue of cars who cannot overtake without breaking the law. It seems some cyclists don't care.

I've done similar to stop cars squeezing between us and traffic furniture because sometimes it is safer to stop cars overtaking than have them trying to squeeze you off the road. But I'm sure no-one here would ever do that. ;)

[Slunnie]

So, if a car/truck is forced to slow and change lanes because a car space is taken, then rego should be paid for that car space that's also taken....



Most hilly, narrow and windy roads have blind corners every few kms... which have Armco, double white lines and an indication of the danger ahead... A corner is approached in readiness for problems, but if everyone was to drive dangerous roads as tho there will be an issue around the next bend then we'd all be doing 10kph.... If the cyclist is in single file, then there is safely room to pass (given, many do not leave enough space, but there is still room). If there is a block of 4 cyclists, there is not room.. I now hear you say 'what about slow moving vehicles?' They are usually large, well lit and can be seen over the top of fences etc... something a block of cyclists can't.. (Worst case scenario if there is a big thump both parties are usually ok as both items are solid)..


I'm not trying to be negative about this, I've just seen lots of 'close calls' with cars getting around blocks of cyclists, but I've seen few issues with people overtaking a line of cyclists. Yes, we all need to be more forgiving and cyclist aware.... BUT in the same breath, our cycling friends need to think more about their safety on fast narrow busy roads and remember that they are not in a safe cocoon when riding in a block of 4. They are in fact just the opposite..
I can see that you think rego should be paid, but rego is not required or requested and there is no possible way for rego to be paid.

If the road is windy, double lined and not safe to pass on, it is still not safe to pass cyclists in single file. It bloody dangerous to do this to the riders but many drivers who do this are only focused on themselves rather than the riders safety and can't recognise as I've already outlined why this is still dangerous. But I do agree, if the road is blind then riders should be right off to the left, but this is too allow for negligent drivers who do come blindly flying through.

[MR LR]

I've done similar to stop cars squeezing between us and traffic furniture because sometimes it is safer to stop cars overtaking than have them trying to squeeze you off the road. But I'm sure no-one here would ever do that. ;)
Good luck with that, I did it in an 8 tonne tractor + chaser bin combo once, the dickhead in the Commodore still came round and I nearly ended up off the side of the culvert just so I didn't put an 80 inch tyre over him.

At the end of the day the most ignorant will be the one that doesn't move, he or she may come off for better or worse because of it though.

[JayBoRover]

Nice to see this come up again. Although there is some negativity from both camps, it raises the profile of the plight of both and increases peoples awareness.:)

I ride a bicycle A LOT! (350 to 450 km's per week normal with the odd 250 or 600km week). I also drive a fair bit (the D90 has 31k up in just over 2 years) and ride motorcycles a little bit (tends to be 5k in a week and then nothing for a year:( - although the Dakar will see 10k in 14 days!:eek:).

I don't ride because I'm saving the planet, or anything heroic like that. I ride because I enjoy it, it saves me a fair whack of money and it keeps me fit. It's also much less hassle to get to work, keeps one car off the clogged up freeway and frees up a parking space somewhere in the city every day. The last two reasons are the only ones that everyone else gets any benefit from, so really it's a selfish choice to ride. I can live with that:angel:.

Sometimes I ride 2 abreast with mates so we can chat (it's legal folks) but also ride single file occasionally when conditions call for it. There are many conditions that affect cyclists that drivers don't see or fully appreciate unless they're cyclists themselves. (I guarantee it isn't cyclists that create all that broken glass on the road edges!:mad:). Of my 32.5 km commute, all but 1.5 km are on cycle/shared path. For the 1.5 km on the road, if you have to follow me the entire way it would increase your trip by around 2.5 minutes. Wow - big deal!

Anyway, on to topic. Even as a cyclist I think it takes an "extra effort" to actually consciously "look" for bicycles and truly be "cyclist aware". I fear knocking a cyclist off, because it would be so easy to do and, regardless of fault, it could end someones life! Imagine ending someones life because you figured a cyclist was going to hold you up for 30 seconds because she was riding 2 abreast chatting to her husband, boyfriend or other. Don't take the risk ... please - for both our sakes. Be or become cyclist aware ... please.:cool: I want to drive my Landy again after my ride:angel:.

Cheers

[Psimpson7]

Cyclists think they have a god given right to ride across pedestrian crossings and get a shock and cannot understand when I do not give away to them :twisted:.
They are classed as motor vehicles so I have right of way - if they get off their bikes then that is different - legally they are pedestrians but when they are on their bikes they are motor vehicles.


Any particular cut off for their age? would you do the same to a say 5 year old kid on a scooter, 10 year old on a BMX? How about someone in a wheelchair? or someone on a mobility scooter? I mean technically they aren't a pedestrian either.. What about in states such as Qld where you are perfectly entitled to ride on footpaths?

I'm guessing you wouldn't actually have the balls to drive at anyone on a pedestrian crossing and are just trying to come across as a internet tough guy.

I cycle quite a lot, not as much as some on here, but I did 150k last week. I don't recall any instances of breaking any laws on my part, and I obeyed all traffic lights / stop signs.

I also spent most of the time on the road, as opposed to the bike paths due to broken glass and other debris. For instance today in a 20k ride I counted the remains of 7 broken glass bottles in the bike pathed area. (which was probably about 8k of the ride)

I don't recall holding anyone up, I did have a few cars hold me up on roundabouts where they passed me and stopped where I could happily have kept going. I didn't feel the need to act like a dick however unlike some on here would appear to when they feel that their obviously much more important life may have been impacted by a few seconds.

People just need to have a bit of respect for others. Having said that, being right as a cyclist isn't great if you are dead so I am quite wary of the general standard of driving.

[Disco Muppet]

Came across a bunch of cyclists today, taking up the entire lane.
When they saw me coming they moved over as much as they could, and I gave them the most available room I could when I passed.
Sometimes that's impossible, so I just give them space and wait for a safe opportunity.
That's really all it takes. And if they're going to be ****s about it let them, don't let it reflect poorly on you :)

[MR LR]

Came across a bunch of cyclists today, taking up the entire lane.
When they saw me coming they moved over as much as they could, and I gave them the most available room I could when I passed.
Sometimes that's impossible, so I just give them space and wait for a safe opportunity.
That's really all it takes. And if they're going to be ****s about it let them, don't let it reflect poorly on you :)

Couldn't have blood and guts taking the shine off the bullbar, aye!

[Homestar]

snip... or someone on a mobility scooter? ...snip



Don't get me started... :D Some of these are the biggest menace on our streets and footpaths - I've been run down by one and the old biddy on it blamed me - I was standing on the (very wide) footpath talking to a mate when mowed down... I though she would just go around as there was plenty of room - I couldn't move much further to one side from where I was, but she just crashed straight into me, then screamed at me for not moving...

Stupid old cow....

[Mick_Marsh]

I had a woman on a Segway run me over at the pedestrian lights. I stopped because the red man was flashing. She tried to outrun the red man. Then she "J" walked.....er....segwayed at the other side to catch the green man.
She knocked me flying. Well, more accurately, ran over my foot.
This happened in the Melbourne CBD.

Stupid old cow....

[Homestar]

I didn't think segways were even legal to use in Australia in public? They don't meet requirements for footpath use like a mobility scooter and they aren't allowed on the road as their top speed and power exceeds the limits for an electric powered unregistered vehicle, and they can't be registered...

I'd have threatened to call the plod if a $50 note didn't change hands... :D

[isuzurover]

Hardly surprising. There are a lot more drivers than cyclists.

I am taking that into account.

The biggest issue with WA cyclists is the huge numbers riding without helmets.

[Didge]

When there are a million suburban backstreets that can be ridden upon safely why do these ******* always want to be riding on main arterial roads? If I drove my car at the same pace, I'd be booked for hindering traffic.
It's that arrogant and selfish attitude that gets up my nose.

[Homestar]

When there are a million suburban backstreets that can be ridden upon safely why do these ******* always want to be riding on main arterial roads? If I drove my car at the same pace, I'd be booked for hindering traffic.
It's that arrogant and selfish attitude that gets up my nose.

If I drove my car at the same speed as the cyclists on beach road, I'd be up before the magistrate on hooning charges...:D

[Mick_Marsh]

If I drove my car at the same speed as the cyclists on beach road, I'd be up before the magistrate on hooning charges...:D
One avoids Beach Road.
The cyclists that use that road kill pedestrians.

[bee utey]

That's what I call ranting red faced fossil fuelled fools in 4WDs who can't drive according to the legal principles of sharing the road.:p:p:p

[davidsonsm]

One avoids Beach Road.
The cyclists that use that road kill pedestrians.

Im glad you do avoid beach road. Please keep it that way.

[davidsonsm]

If I drove my car at the same speed as the cyclists on beach road, I'd be up before the magistrate on hooning charges...:D

Not really true is it. But it sure would be nice if the police helped protect cyclists from the hoons who throw beer bottles at them. Or those that whack cyclists around the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper. Hilarious of course. Bringing cyclists crashing to the ground. Good sport hey.

[Mick_Marsh]

Im glad you do avoid beach road. Please keep it that way.
I only avoid Beach Road as a pedestrian.
Yep, they kill people.
No Cookies | Herald Sun (http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/hell-ride-cyclists-slammed/story-e6frf7kx-1111114047641)
And here's a good website
Beach Road Cycling: Cycling & Walking Pedestrian Death Fatality 77 y.o Melbourne Man killed by Red Light Running Racing Bunch Cyclist on Crossing Beach Road Bunch Cycling Hell Ride The Australian & The Age Pedestrian/ Community Safety (http://petedoweroadsafetyadvocate.blogspot.com.au/2014/03/cycling-walking-pedestrian-death_14.html)
Notice the responsible cyclists obeying the road laws by riding only two abreast.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/05/1320.jpg

That's two lanes abreast.

Well, at least these responsible cyclists are riding single file.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2014/04/62.jpg

Lots of other "incidents" reported in the papers.

[isuzurover]

This thread is hilarious. I think some people feel their man(woman)hood is called into question when they see someone on a bike. Maybe they are secretly turned on by seeing the same sex as them wearing lycra ???

[Mick_Marsh]

But it sure would be nice if the police helped protect cyclists from the hoons who throw beer bottles at them. Or those that whack cyclists around the back of the head with a rolled up newspaper. Hilarious of course. Bringing cyclists crashing to the ground. Good sport hey.
No one is suggesting that sort of behavior is acceptable. It is also not funny.
If cyclists want to be respected, they have to show respect to others.

That Beach Road mob clearly have no respect for the road laws, motorists or pedestrians.

[Mick_Marsh]

This thread is hilarious. I think some people feel their man(woman)hood is called into question when they see someone on a bike. Maybe they are secretly turned on by seeing the same sex as them wearing lycra ???
Yetch. I dislike lycra as a fashion statement whether it be on man or woman. Fit, sinewy, trim cyclists are a myth. At least in the general populace. They are generally portly types that not so much sit on a bike seat as sit around a bike seat. With some it's difficult to determine whether they have a bike seat.

[dullbird]

that not so much sit on a bike seat as sit around a bike seat. With some it's difficult to determine whether they have a bike seat.

:lol2: that really did make me laugh as you have described most of the 50+ men that cycle down to the pie shop down the road from me.....in full racing gear..sponsored by Giant...:p

[Mick_Marsh]

:lol2: that really did make me laugh as you have described most of the 50+ men that cycle down to the pie shop down the road from me.....in full racing gear..sponsored by Giant...:p
Yep. See that sort of thing often.
I used to work with some as described.

[JayBoRover]

Yetch. I dislike lycra as a fashion statement whether it be on man or woman. Fit, sinewy, trim cyclists are a myth. At least in the general populace. They are generally portly types that not so much sit on a bike seat as sit around a bike seat. With some it's difficult to determine whether they have a bike seat.
:Rolling: Although it can be a challenge seeing some overly large people in lycra, I have personally seen people go from HUGE weights to very respectable shapes due to getting out there and enjoying riding regularly. They could have been driving a car to the gym all those years they were putting the weight on but didn't. They "found" cycling and never looked back - despite the dangers of playing in the big boys sand pit. Lycra is the gear we wear because it's made for the job - no different to those footy shirts, budgie smugglers or cricketers with their "boxes" tucked in their pants! I won't be wearing it when I'm racing moto in the Dakar come January!

I wonder if trucking forums have the same carry-on about car drivers as this car driving forum has about cyclists? Certainly listening to channel 40 on the 2-way when in the Landy suggests they have pretty much the same to say aimed at the cars. But that's a very unfair generalisation because there are many cyclists that drive Landy's and many truck drivers that are cyclists - I know a few of both. Pretty much every cyclist is also a car driver.

Tolerance, patience and some mutual respect will go a long way. Settle down people. Let's not kill each other regardless of who's doing more right or wrong than the other. It might be easy to sound tough on here but imagine for second if you actually killed someone, ended someones life, removed a father/mother/child/me from the planet. I'm not perfect :angel: but I'll do what I can to be tolerant, patient and show respect, so don't kill me at the first opportunity if I make a mistake ... please.:)

[Slunnie]

This thread is hilarious. I think some people feel their man(woman)hood is called into question when they see someone on a bike. Maybe they are secretly turned on by seeing the same sex as them wearing lycra ???

It's most definitely an insecurity of the person. The greater the active objection about it the greater the insecurity. People that are actively objecting are looking at it in a completely different way to the mainstream who probably don't spend more than half a second thinking about it, if at all and in many respects it wouldn't surprise me if the active objection is a proactive self defence mechanism.

[dullbird]

Now there is an interesting thought a truckie going to work in lycra :D

[Slunnie]

Yetch. I dislike lycra as a fashion statement whether it be on man or woman. Fit, sinewy, trim cyclists are a myth. At least in the general populace. They are generally portly types that not so much sit on a bike seat as sit around a bike seat. With some it's difficult to determine whether they have a bike seat.

All of the people that I train with will value add to society and give credit to that person and support their endeavour to be healthier, fitter or achieve that goal. I have not ever met another triathlete that would look at that type of person in any other way other than being inspired and in return encouraging. You can choose to add to peoples lives and happiness by supporting them in a positive manner.

[Mick_Marsh]

All of the people that I train with will value add to society and give credit to that person and support their endeavour to be healthier, fitter or achieve that goal. I have not ever met another triathlete that would look at that type of person in any other way other than being inspired and in return encouraging. You can choose to add to peoples lives and happiness by supporting them in a positive manner.
I do encourage all cyclists that ride by the road laws and respect all other road users such as (but not limited to) truck drivers, car drivers, cyclists and pedestrians.
All the others (and there are many of them) should be forced to display registration plates and be severely punished for their cycling indiscretions.

This thread title is "Cyclist aware drivers... are you one?" and, yes, I am.
However, there seems to be a disproportionate ammount of arrogant cyclists who couldn't give a stuff about other road users and are quick to cry victim when they graze their knee.
Perhaps the title should be "Driver and pedestrian aware cyclists... are you one?".
Pull those arrogant cyclists into line and you will be making great inroads into regaining respect of the other road users. In the meantime, as a bicycle rider, a car driver and a truck driver, those arrogant riders don't deserve my respect. (It is given on the road but they don't deserve it.)

[dullbird]

It's most definitely an insecurity of the person. The greater the active objection about it the greater the insecurity. People that are actively objecting are looking at it in a completely different way to the mainstream who probably don't spend more than half a second thinking about it, if at all and in many respects it wouldn't surprise me if the active objection is a proactive self defence mechanism.


I wish I could get in Lycra...I would be too scared they would cart me off to WA as bait:D....

super quick minature hyjack, not to be discussed further

Slunnie do you follow these guys, I saw you mentioned triathletes?

https://www.facebook.com/theaussiesraam?fref=ts

[Slunnie]

Your derogatory remarks about "portly" riders is offensive and is not encouraging. That's what I'm talking about but it obviously needs to be spelled out. Comments like that do nothing positive in this world and are just plain disgusting, especially to those are bullied by it while trying to live a different life. There was nothing in jest in that statement.

[Slunnie]

I wish I could get in Lycra...I would be too scared they would cart me off to WA as bait:D....

super quick minature hyjack, not to be discussed further

Slunnie do you follow these guys, I saw you mentioned triathletes?

https://www.facebook.com/theaussiesraam?fref=ts

Dull bird, those sharks wouldn't be eating much!

Thanks for the link, I hadn't heard of them but I've just followed them to see what they get up to, that's one great challenge that they're embarking on. Love their style!

[dullbird]

Its pretty awesome..a mate of mine is cycling with them :)..

anyway back to the thread

[sam_d]

I've seen a few posts calling cyclists selfish.

That really makes my wonder about people's self awareness when they demand the rights and supporting infrastructure to drive a dangerous, polluting, congestion causing, metal box weighing a tonne or more at no less than 50kmph in high density areas yet call others selfish.

Anyway, this thread is about being cyclist aware, not self aware, or a showcase for ignorance and ITG talk.

I am a cyclist aware driver. I am also a driver aware cyclist. I commute to work by bike daily (110km a week) and know exactly how poor some people's driving is in Sydney. More than 99% of drivers I interact with are fine but it only takes 1 to not pay attention or be an idiot and it's game over.

[blitz]

I've been cycle aware all my driving life, both motor and pedal. I've also been road kill - result, below knee amputee left leg, mangled right foot and mangled left hand. 28 years later still need pain killers to function normally

It's simple respect for another human, not whether we are going to be a few seconds late for either slowing down or passing safely.

[davidsonsm]

Yep, some of the replies on here really defy me. The anti-cyclist mentality that is raised by some of the comments is something I struggle to understand. Where does it come from? Why is it so prevalent in Australia. I say that having experienced far more courteous and friendlier driver attitude towards cyclists elsewhere in the world. For that matter – towards each and every other road user. In Australia,is the aggression aimed at cyclists just an extension of the high levels of aggression that seems to exist once perfectly nice and courteous Australians get behind the wheel of their car. Even the grannies here seem to think they’re Peter Brock! Its dog eat dog out there.

Yes - we can all quote examples of rogue individuals. And there are many examples of dumbness. The old chap that was killed by a sole "Hell Ride" rider a few years back was a tragedy. That was one rider not observing the pedestrian crossing red light and ploughing through an elderly gentleman crossing the Beach Road in Mentone. Nobody condones that behaviour and it does give cyclists a bad name - mainly because the media and cyclist intolerants love to jump on the "beatemup" of cyclists. I could quote ten times the examples ofi diotic car driving behaviour leading to harm or death to cyclists.

Has anybody ever seen a car riding along in the outside lane with a clear inside lane – never have myself (Mick – to counter yourprovocative point).

I have ridden the Hell Ride and I don't particularly like the testosterone levels in the group. As a collective group, they ride far too aggressively for open road conditions. Some of them think they are in the Tour DeFrance. And the occasional "wolf" whistles to passing females is just boorish. However, that being said, it does take place between 6:45am and 8:30am on a Saturday morning when most sane people are still in their pit.

It comes down to this. Consequence. Severity. When a cyclist or pedestrian is lying injured in the road, there is no right and wrong - only an accident that probably could have been avoided. If a car hits a motorbike, cyclist or pedestrian, it can have dire consequences. Conversely, if cyclists hits something, the consequences (usually) are not too bad – I’m not excusing poor cycling etiquette or saying cyclists don’t need to observe the rules of the road. But the consequences are vastly different when comparing the scenarios of “car hits cyclist vs cyclist hits something”. My point being, drivers need to make allowances and need to be extra cautious around cyclists (please, I beg). Bikes don’t have ABS and their footprint is extremely small - they don’t stop particularly well. Their centre of gravity, particuilarly in my case, is terrible.

Having gotten that off my chest, I will say, because of the extreme aggression I often experience from drivers (I search hard to understand what I did to prompt such behaviour), I ride like everybody is trying to kill me. Deffensive. That I hope makes me a safer rider for many years to come.

I genuinely love my commute to work on my bike, along the cycle path that runs along Gardeners Creek and then the main Yarra Trail, and in to the city. It keeps me off the road for 90% of my journey. It sure would make it interesting if the 1000’s of commuter cyclists protested and took to their cars and/or public transport.

[Hogarthde]

I've been cycle aware all my driving life, both motor and pedal. I've also been road kill - result, below knee amputee left leg, mangled right foot and mangled left hand. 28 years later still need pain killers to function normally

It's simple respect for another human, not whether we are going to abeafew seconds late for either slowing down or passing safely. absolutely agree dave

[bee utey]

S'funny the lycra hate. The tough old blokes and ladies I do occasional group rides with wear lycra because it's comfortable, not because it makes their arses look fat. (Sad fact, it does :eek: but they don't care at all :p ) Strangely enough I enjoy their company not because they're unfashionably shaped but because they're genuinely interesting people. They're mothers, fathers, grand parents and in some cases great grand parents. And our slow little groups tend to avoid the main roads so you can't see us and dream up stereotypes about us.:thumbsdown::tease:

Growing old ungracefully is faaar more fun than hiding every wrinkle and being afraid of the body fashion police....:thumbsup:

[loneranger]

Reading these cyclists threads 2 things stand out:

When comments are being made about coming round blind corners or over hills, not knowing what is the other side and not being able to stop safely if there is an obstacle that a few people shouldn't be allowed on the road as they apparently believe it is okay to drive dangerously because the sign said 100kmh is the speed limit and they are going to do it regardless.

Defensive driving anyone????

Secondly, the wheel is turning, the more of these threads, news articles that occur the greater the voice cyclists are gaining and the knuckle draggers are losing the battle. Must be terrifying for those that are so scared of cyclists. Quite ironic considering bikes pre-date cars and modern roads as we know them were created for cyclists.

[AndyG]

I always thought roads were created for Roman Legions and their Chariots

[Saitch]

and roads were created for cyclists.
Oh! So treadlies predate the horse or horse & cart & Romans do they & if they were "created" for cyclists were did the money come from????

[loneranger]

Oh! So treadlies predate the horse or horse & cart & Romans do they & if they were "created" for cyclists were did the money come from????


Modern roads as we know them:

Roads Were Not Built For Cars - American and British cyclists of the 1890s saved roads for ALL users (http://www.roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/)
19th century cyclists paved the way for modern motorists' roads | Carlton Reid | Environment | theguardian.com (http://www.theguardian.com/environment/bike-blog/2011/aug/15/cyclists-paved-way-for-roads)
Roads Weren (http://www.theurbancountry.com/2011/07/roads-werent-built-for-cars.html)

Few links for you to read.

[Greatsouthernland]

We are all human and all have family, so I think our overriding nature when on/in either vehicle is to respect the other, this would be the majority or 'normal' behaviour.

As with all statistics, there will be those (behaviours) outside the norm, you won't change them, we won't change them. Then there's education about the risks and behaviours, life is a continual lesson, none of us know everything, but I bet we all know someone who doesn't learn, so this won't solve the issue, but may help, although there's been on and off campaigns about every aspect of road safety, and we still have every problem.

Common sense ... Well that's not that common, so moving on. Thinking about the work place where vehicles and people interact, I've thought mining would be a good start, preventing death and injury being the overriding objective of Occupational Health & Safety - Risk Analysis would never let bikes mix with trucks and cars. The simple analysis steps - what is the risk (contact between body and vehicle/road), what is the likelihood (highly likely as there are huge vision and awareness issues and no communication between operators), and what is the outcome (potential serious injury or fatality). Therefore the Risk is too great, it increases with driver/operator inability/inattention and speed.

More telling, a work place would have screened operators for age, fitness, lifestyle, experience, then provide ongoing training and SUPERVISION, where the bad elements are continually weeded out, yes the police exist, but this is really limited supervision.

Essentially we work to live, but don't apply the same safety/hazard/risk logic that saves lives and injuries at work to our daily lives, sometimes forgetting that living healthy and staying safe allow us to work to live. Age/maturity and exposure to injury and death also plays a big factor in risk averseness, we're not always 6 ft tall and bullet proof.

Now at this point the hard core would say that there is a 'right' to take the risk as there is a potential health/climate/psychological benefit, and because the law permits it, sure they'd be 100% correct and good luck to them. I sometimes do too, nervously.

But for those that understand physics, risk analysis, safety and potential outcomes, and still want to pedal, there are Safety concepts that can be applied, but they are not often seen as 'cool' and include (but not limited to) :

awareness & alertness (free, acquired more with age and sensibility)
visibility (clothes or vests that stand out like road workers, who by the way can only work near vehicles if speed is reduced to 25kph in SA, 40kph otherwise).
Protective clothing - not Lycra, sorry... Elbow&knee pads, full helmet, leather, body airbag, allsorts of other beyond 2000 stuff...think motorcycle clothing.
Flag at least 1m above head (obviously attached to bike) to aid truck drivers see bikes that are otherwise too low/small in the FOV of truck cabins.
Mirror(s) on bike to assist in situational awareness.
Follow procedures such as indicating intentions.
Etc.

My heartfelt condolences to those who've met with incident or know those who have. I'm not against bikes on roads, I'd like to do more riding myself and wish my kids were safe when riding. I'm against unaware operators of both vehicles, but I accept it won't disappear, that's why I glance at the rear view mirror when I brake, so I can brace for impact when the driver behind is still texting and didn't see traffic slowing.

The attitudes we see here are just that, BUT the hazard exists regardless. The circumstances with our current infrastructure mean that there is a VERY BIG HAZARD created with mixing people and traffic above 25-40kph, risk analysis confirms this, workplaces - Mining and Civil Roadworks - are PROOF of the hazard. It wouldn't be allowed at work, but the law says we can do it in public places - roads. Exceptions where postpersons and police ride bikes, they're technically at work, but not in a work controlled environment.

All anyone can do is the best they can (and we all have off days and experience fatigue), but if you rely on every operator on public roads to be at their best and the the roads to be as safe as a controlled workplace should ideally be, you are ignoring common sense, statistics and science or simply prepared to accept fate.

Chapter 2 ... The infrastructure solution, tbc.

[Reads90]

They're allowed to ride 2 abreast in a lane, this is stated in the law. Theyre not allowed to ride more than 2 abreast in a lane.

Just like a car driver expects the following people to not hit them, so does a rider.

Of course they will tell anybody that does that to :censored: because their thought process is entirely about their needs in exactly the same way as those riders who are hogging the road quite probably are thinking entirely about their own needs. The only options are listed above are blasting the horn at them or breaking the law with an illegal passing manouve and these are both entirely focussed on the driver not having to slow down. Note that the option to blast the horn is because they are riding illegally but the first option is to illegally pass then which risks the lives of the riders, the driver and oncoming drivers/riders.

Forgotten option C is to be patient and foster a safe environment by passing when suitable and legal.

I also think that nobody can throw rocks about illegal and negligent conduct on the road, it happens epidemically from both cars and riders - riders will pay the price for it though.

I had a problem only the other morning on the way to the airport.


Two cyclists were riding side by side


But as I was coming of the dual road on a slip road I was faced with these two side by side doing max 20 and using up half the slip lane as they were using the main lane and non of the side if the road . I was doing 80 and this meant I had to be closer to them than the 1.5m or I would have ended up in the ditch. I pass them and looked in the mirror to see hand gesters and shouting out me.

[4range]

I had a problem only the other morning on the way to the airport.


Two cyclists were riding side by side


But as I was coming of the dual road on a slip road I was faced with these two side by side doing max 20 and using up half the slip lane as they were using the main lane and non of the side if the road . I was doing 80 and this meant I had to be closer to them than the 1.5m or I would have ended up in the ditch. I pass them and looked in the mirror to see hand gesters and shouting out me.

Is there any reason that prevented you from slowing down until it was safe to pass?

I will admit to being largely ignorant of the legal "rights" of cyclists, but the one thing that I see in all these arguments that crop up on various forums is the indignance with which both sides defend their rights before the rights of others.

I do not have the answers!

I hate being held up by cyclists, eventually getting past them , only to be held up again by another one! I'm as impatient as the next person in this day & age of instant gratification, but does that mean that my right (if it is a right) to travel to my destination, outweighs the right of the cyclist holding me up?

People are selfish, stupid, ignorant & arrogant & idignant (even more so when their faults are pointed out). I include myself.

The only way that anything will change is if we properly segregate road users - caravans,trucks, cyclists, pedestrians, horses, motor cycles, busses, old folk, 'L' drivers, 'P' platers, supercars, 4wd's, tradies utes, Volvo drivers, camry drivers, Audi drivers, asians, middle easten folk, europeans, white Australians, black Australians, Soccer mums..........Blah blah blah - so long as I have my lane & travel un-impeded, I'll be reasonably happy! (if I misssed insulting anyone, I appologise)

I do think that if we can all just chill out a little, try to forgive our fellow man for their errors of judgement, or personality floors & be a little more courteous to EVERYONE, their attitudes to us might also start to change.

It's just an idea!

Disclaimer:

I am guilty of doing stupid & reckless things on the road, intentionally & unintentionally. I am guilty of shouting abuse at other road users (cyclists included).

I wish I was free of fault, but I am not and I try to remember that every time I get frustrated at the action / in-action of others. (I dont always succeed!)


Am I a cyclist aware driver - I try to be!

[sam_d]

I had a problem only the other morning on the way to the airport.


Two cyclists were riding side by side


But as I was coming of the dual road on a slip road I was faced with these two side by side doing max 20 and using up half the slip lane as they were using the main lane and non of the side if the road . I was doing 80 and this meant I had to be closer to them than the 1.5m or I would have ended up in the ditch. I pass them and looked in the mirror to see hand gesters and shouting out me.

So, what you are saying/admitting on a public forum is that your driving isn't up to scratch because:

a) you were driving too fast or dangerously for the conditions if you were unable to slow down and pass safely and,
b) you are too selfish to want to share the road with other road users.

It's good to know these things.

I would like to wager that you are one of those driver who believes that they are an excellent drive and that all cyclists are law breakers. Yet, when presented with two cyclists who are doing nothing illegal you decide to act in a manner which endangers their lives to teach them some sort of lesson for a perceived transgression which exists only in your mind.

[Psimpson7]

Protective clothing - not Lycra, sorry... Elbow&knee pads, full helmet, leather, body airbag, allsorts of other beyond 2000 stuff...think motorcycle clothing.


:D You ever ridden a bicycle on the road? I have a full face helmet, and elbow and knee protection which I wear if I am riding downhill but you couldn't wear them on the road. I think you would collapse from heat exhaustion within about 20 mins, especially if you included leathers!!

What's next, going for a run wrapped in blankets?

[Greatsouthernland]

:D You ever ridden a bicycle on the road? I have a full face helmet, and elbow and knee protection which I wear if I am riding downhill but you couldn't wear them on the road. I think you would collapse from heat exhaustion within about 20 mins, especially if you included leathers!!

What's next, going for a run wrapped in blankets?

Yes I've done a few triathlons and ride a MB. If that's all you picked from my essay then I'm glad you took in the rest :D

The point was meant to be that to avoid all the safety gear, a controlled environment is required, like the TDU. If not controlled, such as road workers do when they expose themselves to traffic, then personal protection is the next best thing.

There's the 'Hierarchy of Hazard Controls', which you probably know, so apart from Eliminating the hazard, you have a few other options, Policy and Procedure being the LEAST effective (which apart from relying on good manners, is all we currently have). I was hoping to provide a rational analysis and remove emotion, but I wasn't implying that Lycra had to be replaced in racing events or controlled areas for the serious contenders to practice.

So the other safety recommendations sit OK with you? Don't sweat it with the full leathers, yep I've worn them too before you ask, not on the pedal bike though.

;)

Cheers

[Greatsouthernland]

:D You ever ridden a bicycle on the road? I have a full face helmet, and elbow and knee protection which I wear if I am riding downhill but you couldn't wear them on the road. I think you would collapse from heat exhaustion within about 20 mins, especially if you included leathers!!

What's next, going for a run wrapped in blankets?

A run wrapped in plastic is common for some elite athletes, so space blanket could be used I suppose :D

You could always wear your Lycra while gardening if you miss it :D or shopping, or driving...

Ideally a breathable exoskeleton with fitted air bags would minimise the risk of serious injury when knocked off, you could wear the spandex under that. I remember seeing an airbag in a motorcycle jacket many years ago on some TV show, so it must be possible for cycling...just trying to help with the practical side of things and not picking on any one for their chosen 'right' to be on the road.

[Psimpson7]

Thankfully I don't own a single piece of Lycra, or for that matter a road bike!

As for your other safety recommendations, I use the fact that I regard myself as a competent cyclist, and only ride a mountain bike on which I can generally get out of the way if I need to, and just take my chances.

The flag and mirrors will have to wait

[Greatsouthernland]

Thankfully I don't own a single piece of Lycra, or for that matter a road bike!

As for your other safety recommendations, I use the fact that I regard myself as a competent cyclist, and only ride a mountain bike on which I can generally get out of the way if I need to, and just take my chances.

The flag and mirrors will have to wait

No worries, eyes in the back of your head will be enough while you're still competent/bullet proof :D

Have a good day mate. :cool: