Schrader Valve installed in Suspension Air Tank

[bbyer]

This mod is part of my ongoing quest to reduce the probability of going down to the stops and remaining there until I can get the 3 to a Dealer.

Like Australia, the distances here can be in the hundreds of kilometres – even thousands if you are going the wrong direction – in my case north, as the nearest dealer north of Edmonton is in either in Iceland or Greenland.

I removed the bung, (shown in fuzzy picture below), from the front of the air tank and installed a Schrader valve. This was possible as my 3 is a 2005 model where the air tank has an unused outlet at the front of the tank which is located just above and behind the left front wheel well. The unused bung is also on tanks in the 2006 models and some 2007 units.

The exploded view picture shows the components I needed for the mod. The significance of the air valve is that the valve is the type used in aircraft struts, (oleos). The valve is rated at 2000 psig, (140 bar), whereas a normal vehicle valve is rated at 200 psig, (14 bar), with peaks to 300 psig, (20 bar).

The reason for the AN/MIL spec valve is that the air tank has a normal working pressure of about 244 psig, (16.8 bar), and the relief/exhaust valve is set at about 350 psig, (25 bar).

My intent is to use the Schrader valve as a fill only, (not air off), as I regard the normal +200 psi working pressure of the tank as too dangerous for routine use. Also, even if the pressure was reduced with a regulator, the air is I regard too “high class” for filling say tyres. The air is both dry and dust free, the job of the dryer and filter within the units – not something I wish to tax any more than necessary. I might add that others disagree.

I note that I had a recent compressor only, failure. The air suspension computer still wanted to lift the 3 as usual, however since there was no air available in the tank, there was no lift. What this meant was that the electronics controlling the air spring valves did not require air in the tank for them to operate, however no air available meant no upward movement.

The Schrader valve into the air tank is hence one of my approaches to be able to inject air into the system – in other words, do the job of the compressor. What I also discovered is that once the 3 is up at normal height, if one does not play with the suspension control, the 3 will stay at normal driving elevation and not self lower – except maybe at night, (auto level wakeup), and the solution there is to disconnect the battery.

I say this as realistically, about all one will get into the tank with a shop compressor or portable, is air at about 150 psig, (10 bar), enough to lift the 3, but leaving nothing to play around with.

[gghaggis]

I find it better to splice into the system just after the cross-link valving, one for each air-bag. You have to then air up each bag individually, but a reasonable portable air compressor can manage it, and it removes more points of failure from the chain. I made up a little kit to do this on my D3.

Cheers,

Gordon

[bbyer]

Actually what you are saying you already have done is my yet to be implemented, plan A. The air tank Schrader valve mod is plan B.

Teeing individually into each of the four air springs is really the proper solution as it does eliminate, as you say, "more points of failure in the chain". Regardless of whether the fault is the compressor, the computer, or the wiring, you still are able to lift the 3 and the air pressure required is probably less than 100 psig, (7 bar).

Re my version of plan A, the trouble is with the fittings I propose to use to T into each of the four air springs just down stream of the respective block valves.

I decided that I did not want to actually cut the Land Rover factory 6mm air lines, but got the idea that if I could purchase four Voss System 203 Tee connectors, part number 5 2 03 09 51 00, per the attached Voss catalog pdf, then I would not have to actually cut the Land Rover air lines.

Well that is not so easy - that is purchasing the Tee's. I have not yet been successful in getting Voss to respond to my request as to who actually sells the System 203 fittings.

I have found some heavy truck repair outfits that sell the Voss System 230, 232, and 240 fittings, but not 203.

Until I resolve the sourcing of the Tee's, my plan B is all that I have been able to implement to date. Getting Voss to respond is the current challenge.

I noticed your comment regarding "little kit", and I wondered what that entailed.

[stevo]

there are company's in aussie that sell those type of air fittings I bought some to do the mods on my DII to slow the down movement on the suspension.

Suprised you cannot get anything from the USA??

[bbyer]

I just took your suggestion and sent an email off to General Pneumatics http://www.generalpneumatics.com.au in Mordialloc Victoria. They do not have anything on their web site re Voss, however they do carry a line of DOT push fit metric fittings so that is a good start.

I think the reason I can find very little here in either Canada or USA re Voss is that metric is not very common here.

I expect metric and everything else is much more the norm in Australia as you probably have a greater variety of manufactured products arriving from everywhere that what we have in North America.

I expect you are all experts on Metric, SAE, British, and even more fun, Japanese fittings and threads. If you have an suggestions as to possible contacts re Voss product, I would like to email them.

[gghaggis]

If you have an suggestions as to possible contacts re Voss product, I would like to email them.

I can't remember their name, but when I'm next in the store where I got mine, I'll pass on their contact details to you.

Cheers,

Gordon

[CaverD3]

The Voss fittings are strangly imperial threads. :confused:

I think the easiest way would be just to cut the lines and put in a T piece quick connect. This is how we install the suspension lift (Air-Up) system for MY09 and above.
Once the T piece is in you would need a valve to attach so you can close it when you have filled the bags.

Maybe just have the bits in the glove box and only cut and install in an emergency.

[bbyer]

Yes, I agree, the Voss fittings are very different from anything else I have seen. I purchased a couple of the straight connectors from Land Rover just to get a good look at them.

Cutting into the Land Rover lines is I agree the most practical way of putting a T into the line.

At the moment, I am still trying for what I call the more elegant solution - the Voss tees, but will we see.

I can get DOT 6mm push fit T fittings from Parker locally - well, they order them in from I guess the States. Re Oz, General Pneumatics - per attached, have a good selection of metric / SAE combos and the DOT fittings have the internal tube support even though the brochure does not make that clear. For you guys, that ready availability can be useful.

At the far end of the tube, I planned on installing a Schrader valve. The plan is to bring all four ends into the engine compartment. I already have the 6mm air lines run, the hold up for now is the T fittings, Voss or otherwise - hence the Plan B, for the immediate time, as a result of knowing what the fitting size was going into the air tank, (thank you), so I could find the correct adapters before I removed the existing bung.

[Blknight.aus]

skip the VOSS stuff, festo, wabco and bendix make exactly what you need to T in the way that you want to.

you might want to consider the Y or parallel joiners if you're going to route the hoses anywhere because they let you anchor the hoses to each other and they take up a lot less space.

I can get pics of the pieces I mean from the gear at work next week if you like.

[Graeme]

A T wont be of any use if a corner valve is stuck open.

[bbyer]

skip the VOSS stuff, festo, wabco and bendix make exactly what you need to T in the way that you want to.

you might want to consider the Y or parallel joiners if you're going to route the hoses anywhere because they let you anchor the hoses to each other and they take up a lot less space.


Your thoughts re using a Y, (or parallel) instead of a T are very good. The reality is that I already did obtain some conventional machinery type design Y shaped push in fittings as they do make paralleling the lines so much easier.

After getting the Y fittings, I realized that in theory, I have a bigger concern than just running the lines. It occurred to me that a fitting failure would likely appear as a tyre blowout.

I then recalled the fuss here in North America with the Firestone tyres installed on Ford SUV's and the lawsuits that resulted. As such, I decided that I best install either DOT fittings or fittings that are already on the Land Rover, (in otherwords Voss or John Guest.) I purchased a John Guest brand union from Land Rover, (part number STC8580), and looked at it. It was manufactured of composite material and internally, the 4mm OD tube support was there, (as with all DOT and most TUV accepted fittings). This therefore got me to looking for DOT fittings and since DOT Y fittings are not made, (well cannot find any), then I had to discard the Y idea.

This then got me to looking at how tight I could bend the 6mm DIN spec tubing. It is fairly rigid stuff so I took a heat gun to a length and discovered that with not too much heat, I could put a perhaps 6" (150mm) or somewhat tighter radius bend in the tubing with very little apparent internal distortion. As such, installing T fittings and paralleling the lines is a bit more practical.

I might add that here in Canada, finding Metric DOT Push In fittings is not that easy. In Australia, you have it a lot easier in that General Pneumatics, Products - General Pneumatics Pty Ltd (http://www.generalpneumatics.com.au/html/s02_article/article_view.asp?art_id=116&nav_cat_id=148&nav_top_id=58) appears to have a good stock of the DOT metric stuff; also I now have found out that I can obtain their products thru their agent here in Canada.

[Blknight.aus]

a fitting failure in air suspension wont appear like a tyre failure been there experienced that.

festo and wabco are world wide, If thier parts are good enough to install in fire engines and emergancy response vehicles then they are good enough to put in a landy.

Dont put minimum radius bends in the plastic lines vibration and heat change can kill them pretty quickly especially if they happen to rub or slide on anything.

Welcome to Altecare Radio Control (http://www.altecare.com/festo.htm) has the pictures of the plastic connectors I was going to get pics of for you but they can also be had in stainless (and its a yank website)

If you think you're going to have a rub point on the hose you can wrap it in plumbers pfte tape.

[bbyer]

Thanks for the link. I see that the Altecare link is actually based in Eastern Canada, (Ontario), but they sort of obscure that, ( big Stars and Stripes flag displayed), as no matter how good your product, it is not so easy for "foreigners" to sell into the States.

I note your comment re heat and destroying the integrity of the tubing. I have run my lines inside that black flexible plastic wire wrap, (wiring loom), that the vehicle manufacturerers for the most part, now use to protect their cable bundles in an attempt to reduce chaffing and heat tranfer from where ever and what ever.

Actually here, the other concern is cold. What one does not want is a line trying to flex at -45C.

I sort of assumed the reaction to a rapid release of an air fitting or line rupture between the air spring and valve block would seem like a tyre blowout - and fixing that sort of failure outside at -45C is really not fun.

[Nomad9]

Hi bbyer,
Thankfully I haven't had to splice any lines on my 05 D3 yet, seems like a good idea. When I spliced the lines on my P38 which inevitably always needs a plan b I use Festo fittings these for me have proved very reliable. Festo - Industrial Automation - Industrial Automation (http://www.festo.com.au) they have an on-line shop and catalogue and mail worldwide by the looks of things. They also sell grab kits with multiple fittings, maybe these people can help.

[ArtS]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this site and was excited to see that there was a thread that addressed my current issue with my 3. I was wondering why you would install at each corner. Wouldn't you be able to install one T after the front and rear value blocks? Wouldn't this fill the ends equally and if there was a failure the end would drop not just one corner? Also I am in Nova Scotia Canada can someone please provide a link to a Canadian retailer? Thanks!

[scarry]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this site and was excited to see that there was a thread that addressed my current issue with my 3. I was wondering why you would install at each corner. Wouldn't you be able to install one T after the front and rear value blocks? Wouldn't this fill the ends equally and if there was a failure the end would drop not just one corner? Also I am in Nova Scotia Canada can someone please provide a link to a Canadian retailer? Thanks!

More than likely so in emergency, you can air up directly to each suspension air bag.

Dont go through the valve blocks,which maybe not working for whatever reason.

The fuse can also be pulled so the valve blocks won't open,therefore keeping each airbag separate,and isolated from the system.

[cjc_td5]

Hi guys,

I'm new to this site and was excited to see that there was a thread that addressed my current issue with my 3. I was wondering why you would install at each corner. Wouldn't you be able to install one T after the front and rear value blocks? Wouldn't this fill the ends equally and if there was a failure the end would drop not just one corner? Also I am in Nova Scotia Canada can someone please provide a link to a Canadian retailer? Thanks!

Also, if you could open the valve block and then filled each end, and left each side effectively with an open connection between the two sides, when you went into a corner, wouldn't the outer side compress and transfer air to the inner side which would then lift? This would set up some insane body roll and be extremely unstable. You need to isolate each wheel running a manual air-up system (i.e. computer bypassed).

Chris

[ArtS]

Also, if you could open the valve block and then filled each end, and left each side effectively with an open connection between the two sides, when you went into a corner, wouldn't the outer side compress and transfer air to the inner side which would then lift? This would set up some insane body roll and be extremely unstable. You need to isolate each wheel running a manual air-up system (i.e. computer bypassed).

Chris


Thanks Chris, your comments about the body roll make perfect sense. Independent connections to each side is the way to go. I understand the pieces needed to tee into the line after the value block; however, I need some help connecting the 6mm line coming off the bottom of the tee to a Schrader valve. Would you need a straight 6mm to 1/4 connector to match up to the Schrader valve? Does someone have a diagram with listed components? Thanks!

[101RRS]

Just buy a GOE emergency inflation kit.

[ArtS]

Just buy a GOE emergency inflation kit.

Thanks for the tip Garry! However, I was able to source my own kit for 1/3 of the cost of the GOE kit.

The "T" are rated up to 19 bar and the tubing is 23.5
I know the value connection is a bit of mess but had to work with what I had at hand with local shops for now.
I will look to order a cleaner value setup over time (less joints aka points that could leak).
I plan on mounting the two front valves to the side of air filter box in the engine bay (there is a empty bracket).
The valve will be mounted between the washers.

Anyway I'm installing the first kit in the front tomorrow and will post pics.

So the installation was smooth. No problem accessing the front valve block and installing the T push to connects.
Had an issue with filling the bags as they would only fill to 90psi, which only raised the front to 30inches from floor to fender.
I had to take pressure of the wheels by jacking up the truck and then the bags took 110psi and raised the truck to 32.5 inches. (two inch improvement as I was on my bump stops:)
My shop compressor only goes to 120psi so thinking this could be the reason.
Also the valve block seems to open and balance the air between the two bags. I know there is a cross link valve; however, there was no power to the valve and my understanding is that when there is no power the valves are supposed to stay closed. Hmmm
Anyway seems to have worked for now. I will check back in the morning to see if she has maintained at 32.5"

Thanks for the motivation!
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