STEERING TROUBLES

[banjo]

Well have heard a noise for a little while now from the front end , Sounded like a dry balljoint so i gets out & gave it a grease today to find out its still there...
So had Fatty jump in & start it & turn from side to side Well it wasn't a dry balljoint , The passanger side is hitting the spring when turning right..
It never did this when finished & i put the first rego on it , its now just been rego'd again for the 2nd time since it was finished.
I went & got the workshop manual out to get the suspension mesurements & went & checked mine but this is a bit hard as i have military shackels on the back & i know the front ones are a little longer than standard..
On the rears i got Passangers side was 200mm & drivers side was 190mm..
On the front was passangers side was 150mm ish & the drivers side was 130mm .. I think it is the springs as i am fairly sure they are the origanals but now that it has been used a bit i was thinking they have sagged..
But i am worried now if i use it offroad & the passangers side goes right up it will break the balljoint....
There was a gap between the spring & joint when i finished the car..
If i cant sort this out quick i will be putting it up for sale as we need a car & fatty's runs out of rego in AUGUST & it wont get passed again..

Heres some pics i took..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1243.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1241.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/619.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1242.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/170.jpg


Any ideas or advise would be great..

Thanks Jason...

[banjo]

That track rod is alot bigger than the origanal as the toyota end is biger thicker. was wondering if i put new springs on (would like to go with parrabolics) ..
And maybe get the passangers side machined in a lath & get it to or close to the origanal size & then tapper it to the larger size about 3 or 4 inches from the end..

I think if the gap isn't big enough between the spring & joint when the tyre goes up when in the bush under articulation that they will hit & snap the joint ??

[JDNSW]

I just went and looked at mine - there is not a lot of clearance there anyway, I am guessing that the stem of the ball on the tie rod end is slightly shorter, at least from the outside of the tube, and has been brought into contact by settling of the spring.

However, I would check that the U-bolts are tight and that you do not have a broken centrebolt allowing the axle to move slightly. Other things to check would be a loose swivel bush allowing the whole swivel housing to twist slightly, or a loose or bent arm, or a worn tierod end allowing the tube to be pushed slightly lower by the spring in the TRE.

John

[banjo]

Well i went & mesured the 2 rods the one that goes between the two sides is 22.4 round . The one that goes from the box to the Wheel is 25.6 round plus the clamp...
I also mesured from the spring to the rods the Gap..


The one that joins the two wheels is 20mm....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/166.jpg

The one that goes from the box to the wheel is 15mm ..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/06/167.jpg


Its is only hitting that bracket on the springs & the clamp on the rod hits the bracket . . . .
Only on full right lock , The rap bracket on the spring is 5 or so mm thick...

[banjo]

Also ment to say that the steering box end is a little lower as it has the power steering from a 60 series toyota which is fitted to the outside of the chassis so needs to be a little lower for the arm to have full movement through right & left...

[bblaze]

I can see the problem, if you look close it is evident in all you pics - its to bloody clean, no oil, no mud and just shiney paint. Take it out the bush, bit of oil splashed on with a good dash of mud you wont hear the noises.
cheers
blaze
ps
maybe reset the springs

[banjo]

I just went and looked at mine - there is not a lot of clearance there anyway, I am guessing that the stem of the ball on the tie rod end is slightly shorter, at least from the outside of the tube, and has been brought into contact by settling of the spring.

However, I would check that the U-bolts are tight and that you do not have a broken centrebolt allowing the axle to move slightly. Other things to check would be a loose swivel bush allowing the whole swivel housing to twist slightly, or a loose or bent arm, or a worn tierod end allowing the tube to be pushed slightly lower by the spring in the TRE.

John

Thaks John
I know the U bolts are good as i had to fix both center bolts as they where broken..

I'm pretty sure the swivel bush is okbut will check again tomorrow..

The tie rod is a brand new one i replaced the 2 when made the rod toyota 1end landy the other end...

Praying that it is only the worn springs as they are the origanal 1973 ones..

And it only hits that damn bracket on the spring at full lock or just before it actualy..

Allways new i would have to replace the springs was just hoping it would be further down the track as i want to sort the disc brakes.....

[TJWA]

You could extend the front hangers the same as the Military then fit Military shackles.

[peterg1001]

Last time I checked, Carrolls Springs in Smithfield would reset a pair of springs for $220. Give them a call on 02 9681 1355.

Peter

[banjo]

You could extend the front hangers the same as the Military then fit Military shackles.


Yeah i would like to do that but its to time consuming & a lot of work , Easier to just change the springs . I remember reading Ironman do a 50mm raised spring mite give them a ring in the morning to . . .

[banjo]

I just went and looked at mine - there is not a lot of clearance there anyway, I am guessing that the stem of the ball on the tie rod end is slightly shorter, at least from the outside of the tube, and has been brought into contact by settling of the spring.

However, I would check that the U-bolts are tight and that you do not have a broken centrebolt allowing the axle to move slightly. Other things to check would be a loose swivel bush allowing the whole swivel housing to twist slightly, or a loose or bent arm, or a worn tierod end allowing the tube to be pushed slightly lower by the spring in the TRE.

John

To check this can i just jack up the front end & grab the wheel & see if there is any movement..?

[banjo]

Well i got a price on my new springs today can get the 4 of them for $500 & they are a little bigger than standed hight not sure how much will find out tomorrow . . . . Thought that was a good price . . . . .

[TJWA]

A set of Britpart Parabolics for a 109" cost me $800

[peterg1001]

My Britpart parabolics also cost $800 - then the rest. See the story at Sorting out the rear suspension (http://greenacre.biz/landrover/957_rearsuspension/957_rearsuspension.htm).

Peter

[banjo]

Yeah i would like to go with parabolics just cant aford them just yet so it will have to be standed ones for now . Was hoping mine would of lasted a bit longer so i could of got the parabolics . .

[banjo]

My Britpart parabolics also cost $800 - then the rest. See the story at Sorting out the rear suspension (http://greenacre.biz/landrover/957_rearsuspension/957_rearsuspension.htm).

Peter

BUGGA ME .....Mite waita bit for mine. . . .

[TJWA]

BUGGA ME .....Mite waita bit for mine. . . .

If you do go with Parabolics, spend the extra and get the Rocky Mountains. That's what I would do if I could go back in time.

The sweetness of a cheap price does not last as long as the sourness of poor quality.

[banjo]

I hope this works. How bad or dangerous would it be to cut the tops off this bracket on the springs just the top where its hitting on the steering . It would only be for a week or 2 at most till i get my new springs so i can still drive it ?????????. This is the only place it hits . . .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1242.jpg

[Lotz-A-Landies]

You would be better off getting the correct clamp, because that one ain't it!

Then I'd be adjusting the drag link rod into the tie rod end so that not so much of the thread is sticking out.

After that I would be re-positioning the steering lever on the bottom of the steering relay so that the steering was correct lock to lock and straight ahead.

Subsequently I would adjust the steering stops correctly.

Then you shouldn't have a problem hitting the springs.

No I would not cut off any steering bracket for even an hour!

[banjo]

You would be better off getting the correct clamp, because that one ain't it!

Then I'd be adjusting the drag link rod into the tie rod end so that not so much of the thread is sticking out.

After that I would be re-positioning the steering lever on the bottom of the steering relay so that the steering was correct lock to lock and straight ahead.

Subsequently I would adjust the steering stops correctly.

Then you shouldn't have a problem hitting the springs.

No I would not cut off any steering bracket for even an hour!


Which one do you mean .. I want to cut the top off the clamp on the spring not the tie rod. . . .
These springs are the origanals & have saged enough to make it hit..

I have to check the top & bottom swivel bush's to. Can i just jack up the front & grab a wheel & see . Push & pull the top & bottom of the wheel to see if theres movement.??????

[JDNSW]

Which one do you mean .. I want to cut the top off the clamp on the spring not the tie rod. . . .
These springs are the origanals & have saged enough to make it hit..

I have to check the top & bottom swivel bush's to. Can i just jack up the front & grab a wheel & see . Push & pull the top & bottom of the wheel to see if theres movement.??????

Yes, if you just jack up the front, one side, there should be no movement of the wheel when rocking up and down (or side to side, but that will find your steering slack as well). If there is movement, it could be wheel bearings, but you can eliminate that by getting someone to stand on the brake while you do it.

There should be minimal problems with cutting the spring clip turnover off. This clip has two functions, both of which are shared with the one on the other end of the spring. One is to keep the spring leaves aligned with each other, and the other is to limit the rebound by making more than the top leaf involved in checking rebound once the free camber is reached on the rebound - this is not a major function as the shock absorber does most of this. Just avoid severe bumps. I have seen springs go for years with clips broken or missing.
Diana - he is talking about the spring clamp, not the drag link clamp; and that is neither the correct drag link clamp nor the correct drag link, because he is using a Toyota drag link from a Toyota PS box - if I remember correctly.

John

[banjo]

Yes, if you just jack up the front, one side, there should be no movement of the wheel when rocking up and down (or side to side, but that will find your steering slack as well). If there is movement, it could be wheel bearings, but you can eliminate that by getting someone to stand on the brake while you do it.

There should be minimal problems with cutting the spring clip turnover off. This clip has two functions, both of which are shared with the one on the other end of the spring. One is to keep the spring leaves aligned with each other, and the other is to limit the rebound by making more than the top leaf involved in checking rebound once the free camber is reached on the rebound - this is not a major function as the shock absorber does most of this. Just avoid severe bumps. I have seen springs go for years with clips broken or missing.
Diana - he is talking about the spring clamp, not the drag link clamp; and that is neither the correct drag link clamp nor the correct drag link, because he is using a Toyota drag link from a Toyota PS box - if I remember correctly.

John

Thanks John i will do those checks as soon as Karen gets home so she can do the brake pedal.. I'm pretty sure when i built the car there was a space between the rod & spring so i'm realy hoping that it is just the springs are sagged & thats causing it to hit as the spring are the origanals from when the car was new 1973....


Yes i do have the toyota power steering box & custom drag link....

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Which one do you mean .. I want to cut the top off the clamp on the spring not the tie rod. . . .
These springs are the origanals & have saged enough to make it hit..
<snip>I'm think that is a little misunderstanding of the geometry.

When springs lose their tension they go flat and given that the steering lever is fixed in its relationship with the axle assembly, when the spring is flat it should create more clearance rather than less.

The problem of the steering components hitting the springs is most likely with incorrect assembly, incorrect components and springs with too much of a curve at the front.

When I bought my FFR it was fitted with a RRc tie-rod end and produced the same symptoms as you are describing. You need to have the correct ends* and have the end of the drag link threaded as close as possible to the ball joint of the tie-rod end. You also need the correct clamps which are quite narrow unlike yours which are too wide. When this is done you adjust the steering box and lower steering relay to be correct for straight ahead, and lock to lock. Once you have done the other adjustments, you need to adjust the stop on the swivel ball seal retainer so that the drag link end does not hit the spring on full lock.

* there are two types of tie rod end. the early type on the series 1s and series 2/2a had a flat shoulder after the thread where the clamp sits.
The later type has the thread extending right up to the ball joint. Most SIII have the later type tie rods.If you use the late type end on the early type tie-rods, there is not enough clamping pressure and the threads may strip leaving the vehicle without steering. This has resulted in fatal crashes.

If you use early type ends on late type rods, you can not thread the end completely into the tie-rod. This can cause adjustment and reduced lock problems.

[banjo]

Don't know its still sitting out there waiting for everything to dry so i can go have a good look & check the swivel bush's..

[banjo]

I'm think that is a little misunderstanding of the geometry.

When springs lose their tension they go flat and given that the steering lever is fixed in its relationship with the axle assembly, when the spring is flat it should create more clearance rather than less.

The problem of the steering components hitting the springs is most likely with incorrect assembly, incorrect components and springs with too much of a curve at the front.

When I bought my FFR it was fitted with a RRc tie-rod end and produced the same symptoms as you are describing. You need to have the correct ends* and have the end of the drag link threaded as close as possible to the ball joint of the tie-rod end. You also need the correct clamps which are quite narrow unlike yours which are too wide. When this is done you adjust the steering box and lower steering relay to be correct for straight ahead, and lock to lock. Once you have done the other adjustments, you need to adjust the stop the swivel ball so that the drag link end does not hit the spring on full lock.


* there are two types of tie rod end.

the early type on the series 1s and series 2/2a had a flat shoulder after the thread where the clamp sits.
The later type has the thread extending right up to the ball joint. Most SIII have the later type tie rods.
If you use the late type end on the early type tie-rods, there is not enough clamping pressure and the threads may strip leaving the vehicle without steering. This has resulted in fatal crashes.

If you use early type ends on late type rods, you can not thread the end completely into the tie-rod. This can cause adjustment problems.

My drag link is custom made its longer & thicker than standard.& das the left hand thread at the rover (wheel) end i'm pretty sure its the left must be i got a left hand tap to do it..

We never had any trouble till the springs sagged or settled as such..

[banjo]

Use are starting to worry me that there is something seriously wrong . . . .

[Lotz-A-Landies]

My drag link is custom made its longer & thicker than standard.& das the left hand thread at the rover (wheel) end i'm pretty sure its the left must be i got a left hand tap to do it..

We never had any trouble till the springs sagged or settled as such..Thicker I can understand, but unless you have spaced the swivel balls out with longer halfshafts I can not understand why or how the steering geometry could be correct with a longer drag link.

LH thread, RH thread it doesn't make a lot of difference which way the link is fitted, you just need to be careful when adjusting the track etc.

[banjo]

Thicker I can understand, but unless you have spaced the swivel balls out with longer halfshafts I can not understand why or how the steering geometry could be correct with a longer drag link.

LH thread, RH thread it doesn't make a lot of difference which way the link is fitted, you just need to be careful when adjusting the track etc.

I haven't changed the anything except the drag link as its has the landy tei rod one end & a toyota tie rod on the other.. Its only longer as the toyota steering box is on the outside of the chassis not the inside like standard..
The rod between the 2 wheels is the origanal & i never changed it so that i wouldn't have to adjust anything...

And it only hits the bracket thing on the spring when on full lock right if that bracket was up higher or lower on the spring there wouldn't be a problem .. But i will check the swivel bushes to be sure that ,that hasn't caused it to move like John advised ...
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1241.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/619.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1242.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1243.jpg

Starting to get realy worried now . . .

[banjo]

Well that sux was about to go dig the big jack out as the sun was out & its started to dry up..That didn't happen as while i was in the little shed to get the jack it starts to rain again & getting some good thunder now... BUGGA..

[banjo]

OK went out & jacked the front up this morning done the passengers side first couldn't get any movement by hand top & bottom Karen put the brakes on still no movement & no movement front to back , So i put a bar on the swivel & shocky bracket still no movement Put the bar under the tyre & tryed to lift to see if any movement there was none..The only movement on the passenger side was a very little in the hub Bearings..
So went & did the drivers side done the same by hand no movement & no movement front to back or side to side . So i put the bar under the tyre again & there was some in the bearings normal ..But when Karen put her foot on the brakes i put the bar under the tyre & there is the slitest movement in the top bush maybe 2 mm..

[banjo]

Never had any trouble the whole first year of driving it .We just noticed that it sits a little lower now than when we first finished it .
So i just thought it was the springs as they have sunk since driving it around & it did work hard when we moved in here with the trailer on & very loaded..

[banjo]

Ok i went out & had another look at the rover thismorning & took some mesurements. The car is on fairly level groung & i measured to the center of the front spring bolt to the ground now there is a big BOO BOO....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1095.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1096.jpg

DRIVERS SIDE
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1097.jpg

PASSENGER SIDE
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1098.jpg

Now if use think this could be what my problem is . I was thinking i would jack the passenger side up put it on a stand & Measuring it from center of bolt to ground since it now on a stand & cuting around the weld for the dumb iron that i welded on except the bottom of it. And give it a tap till i get down to around the 10mm ish that it is & reweld it. But i would get persise measurements first..

[banjo]

Come on guys what do use recon..Not that it matters cause no shed so will have to wait till the rain stops completly so i can start to do anything..

[chazza]

It is a bit hard for me to understand your post because the tape is out of focus and I can't see where you are measuring from - so I presume that you think the passenger side hanger needs to be about 20mm lower?

My question is why should it be so? Did you remove one, or the other, when you did the steering modification? If you haven't altered them it would be worth looking at the workshop manual chassis drawings to see if you can locate the cause of the anomaly - it may be a bent chassis for example.

If it is in the wrong place, then getting it right, will need a jig to space it from the rear hanger and measurements from the top of the chassis,

Cheers Charlie

[banjo]

It is a bit hard for me to understand your post because the tape is out of focus and I can't see where you are measuring from - so I presume that you think the passenger side hanger needs to be about 20mm lower?

My question is why should it be so? Did you remove one, or the other, when you did the steering modification? If you haven't altered them it would be worth looking at the workshop manual chassis drawings to see if you can locate the cause of the anomaly - it may be a bent chassis for example.

If it is in the wrong place, then getting it right, will need a jig to space it from the rear hanger and measurements from the top of the chassis,

Cheers Charlie

Na i had to replace both dumb iron & i think i didn't allow for the rust on the passenger side where they had completely collapst..

[banjo]

The shackles look ok..

drivers side

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1067.jpg

Passengers side

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1068.jpg

[banjo]

This is why i had to replace the both of them & i think i have welded the passengers side a bit high....

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1061.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1062.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1063.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/1064.jpg

We mite even just sell the damn thing yet cause its giving me a monster headache..

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Ooh :eek:

Not a good look with that last shot!

Photos perspectives can be just too confusing although I'm sure I can see what you mean. You need to check the chassis against the data in the original workshop manual.

You need to find a perfectly level floor, check it with a spirit level both ways.

Drive the vehicle onto it and using a "plumb bob" you need to mark out the various points from the chassis onto the floor and take exact heights in millimeters from the points in the manual,to the centres of holes etc.

Then using the floor as your datum, you need to compare your results with the manual. check for square as well.

[banjo]

Ah well looks like it will be sold off as is ..Cause that slab is the best i got as i dont go out & i wouldn't ask anyone to let me mark all the floor of there shed. Plus i realy don't want to have to pull all the body to bits to get the measurements .....:mad:

So any takers ...someone will be able to sort it out easier than what i can....:mad:
Check the markets & flee bay...:mad::(:(:( .

[Mick-Kelly]

Thats a shame, ive admired this one for a while. Best series three ive seen in a long while. Is there no way to fabricate different length shackles for the front eyes to give it a smidgen of lift and correct the difference.

[banjo]

Thats a shame, ive admired this one for a while. Best series three ive seen in a long while. Is there no way to fabricate different length shackles for the front eyes to give it a smidgen of lift and correct the difference.


I'm going to have another look & double check the measurement. Then i will try & get it on stands & try & level it out..
I'm pretty sure thats what it is the left hand dumb iron needs to be adjusted down i have had a look & took measurements using the front cross member all is well is just that dumb iron..I dont think i allowed for the collaps of the old rusty one . . .
I just dont want to have to pull all the front end off again. . . .

[The ho har's]

If it is any help mines always listed to the drivers side even when we put other springs in and everyone else we have spoke to said the exact same thing...to do with the fuel tank and driver we asume on the same side:)..heavy a weight.

and before anyone say's anything I am only 62kg:p

Mrs hh:angel:

[banjo]

If it is any help mines always listed to the drivers side even when we put other springs in and everyone else we have spoke to said the exact same thing...to do with the fuel tank and driver we asume on the same side:)..heavy a weight.

and before anyone say's anything I am only 62kg:p

Mrs hh:angel:


Yeah i had thought of that but i got the second tank on the passengers side..I'm pretty sure its the dumb iron..

[chazza]

Don't get too dis-heartened Banjo - I think you are correct, the hanger needs moving downwards. A clever chap like you shouldn't find it a big deal to move it. Check out the chassis drawing and work out how to measure down from the top of the front crossmember, which is where the hanger eye should be measured from.

The measurement is 229mm and is on pg 76-13 of the SIII manual (I think you have a 109" which is what I am referring to),

Cheers Charlie

[Ausfree]

Ah well looks like it will be sold off as is ..Cause that slab is the best i got as i dont go out & i wouldn't ask anyone to let me mark all the floor of there shed. Plus i realy don't want to have to pull all the body to bits to get the measurements .....:mad:

So any takers ...someone will be able to sort it out easier than what i can....:mad:
Check the markets & flee bay...:mad::(:(:( .
Banjo, that slab of concrete doesn't look exactly true with all the cracks in it, you are quite welcome to use my garage if you want a level floor to work from, guessing your markings would be in chalk!!!;)

[banjo]

Don't get too dis-heartened Banjo - I think you are correct, the hanger needs moving downwards. A clever chap like you shouldn't find it a big deal to move it. Check out the chassis drawing and work out how to measure down from the top of the front crossmember, which is where the hanger eye should be measured from.

The measurement is 229mm and is on pg 76-13 of the SIII manual (I think you have a 109" which is what I am referring to),

Cheers Charlie

Tanks Charlie i will have a look at that . . . . I have a few workshop manuals but i think i know which one your talking about . . . .

[dolphint]

Jason, would a set of military extended shackles help??

[JDNSW]

Jason, would a set of military extended shackles help??


Extended shacles would probably do the trick but extended shackles at the rear of the spring and no lift at the front will change the castor angle, which is not only make problems for the steering but is almost certainly illegal (extended shackles plus moving the front spring eye on the dumb iron down is legal if done front and rear, since this was an option).

Using extended shackles to correct for an incorrect position of the front spring eye would not be very sensible.

John

[chazza]

Tanks Charlie i will have a look at that . . . . I have a few workshop manuals but i think i know which one your talking about . . . .

G'day Banjo,
Sorry, I should have mentioned that my book is: Land Rover Series III; Repair Operation Manual; AKM3648 (edition 4)

I have had a think about your problem and it seems to me a good plan of attack is to:
1. Jack up front end and support on chassis stands.
2. Remove road wheel.
3. Remove front and rear suspension shackle pins whilst supporting axle on a trolley jack.
4. Disconnect drag link at the appropriate end.
5. Lower the axle and spring clear of the chassis - keep an eye on the brake hose; there should be enough flex in the RH spring to allow it to drop easily.
6. Make up a locating jig using two bolts welded at right angles and perfectly in line onto a rigid backing e.g. a piece of 30 x 30mm RHS tube. I used a bit of 25mm x 10mm flat bar on my S1. The bolts must be the same diameter as the shackle pins. The distance between the centres is 879.3mm if yours is a 109".
7. Remove the front hanger.
8. Clean the hanger of weld and smooth the chassis. Fit the hanger and pass the distance jig through both bushes.
9. Locate the height of the front hanger by measuring down from the top of the front crossmember - clamping a piece of RHS onto the crossmember and measuring with a steel rule and square should work well.
10. Tack the hanger in place and compare it to the other one.
11. If all looks well, weld in place and remove the distance jig.
12. Reassemble car and enjoy :D

Cheers Charlie

[banjo]

Jason, would a set of military extended shackles help??


Thanks Steve i been out looking at the pile of crud again & i think doing that to the rear of the spring mite push the front of the spring closer to the steering rod..Unfortunately i think i'm going to have to fix the dumb iron up. The drivers side seems fine so its only the passengers side to do ...

Did i mention that just round the corner from my place is a series 3 stage one 5 door wagon for sale for $1500..

[banjo]

G'day Banjo,
Sorry, I should have mentioned that my book is: Land Rover Series III; Repair Operation Manual; AKM3648 (edition 4)

I have had a think about your problem and it seems to me a good plan of attack is to:
1. Jack up front end and support on chassis stands.
2. Remove road wheel.
3. Remove front and rear suspension shackle pins whilst supporting axle on a trolley jack.
4. Disconnect drag link at the appropriate end.
5. Lower the axle and spring clear of the chassis - keep an eye on the brake hose; there should be enough flex in the RH spring to allow it to drop easily.
6. Make up a locating jig using two bolts welded at right angles and perfectly in line onto a rigid backing e.g. a piece of 30 x 30mm RHS tube. I used a bit of 25mm x 10mm flat bar on my S1. The bolts must be the same diameter as the shackle pins. The distance between the centres is 879.3mm if yours is a 109".
7. Remove the front hanger.
8. Clean the hanger of weld and smooth the chassis. Fit the hanger and pass the distance jig through both bushes.
9. Locate the height of the front hanger by measuring down from the top of the front crossmember - clamping a piece of RHS onto the crossmember and measuring with a steel rule and square should work well.
10. Tack the hanger in place and compare it to the other one.
11. If all looks well, weld in place and remove the distance jig.
12. Reassemble car and enjoy :D

Cheers Charlie


I think your on a winner Charlie, I don't have that workshop manual..
If you get a chance could you scan the page for me & pos up a pic with the measurements plus i will be able to see where all the measurements are taken from....
I sorta understand what you are saying .......

THANKS

[chazza]

G'day Banjo I don't think it would scan well - I have to use a magnifying glass to read it!

All you need to know is:
*That from the top of the front crossmember to the centre of the front hanger eye is a vertical distance of 229mm.
* The distance from the rear chassis bush centre to the centre of the front hanger eye is 879.3mm.

My guess is that a tolerance of about 3mm on the above figures would be acceptable but the closer the better,

Cheers Charlie

[banjo]

Hey Charlie just want to make sure i have the right way of measuring the points i need...
I have a ruff drawing as what i'm doing just to check..
Also if i center punch the bolts could i use these to take the measurements .As the bushes are real good i thought the bolts would be in the center..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/996.jpg

Thanks again Charlie . . . . .

[banjo]

Ok i have took a measurement from center to center
Passenger side is 880mm on the dot

Driver side is 87.5 ..

I haven't yet taken a measurement from the top of the front cross member as i will have to take the winch & bull bar off for that..

But i was wondering if someone has the time if they could take 2 measurements for me from the bottom of the two rods to the top of the spring on the passenger side ..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/989.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/990.jpg

I'm curious to what they are on a standard setup..
The one between the 2 wheels is about 20mm on mine
And the steering one is about 15mm ish...

Thanks..

[Psimpson7]

Here you go from ours... although this is a stage 1:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/987.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/988.jpg

[banjo]

Oh crap thats heeps i only got 20mm & 15mm ish . So i guess there is something realy wrong with mine..



& i was thinking thismorning what if i cut some 3 or 5mm plate & drill & put between the diff & spring just to lift them away a it .. If so Should i do both side or just the passenger side ?????????
I realy don't want to have to pull the whole front end off & cut the dumb iron to redo it...:mad:

See mine is a little lower on the drivers side at the steering box as its now on the outside of the chassis & is the toyota box...

[chazza]

G'day Banjo,
In your sketch you have 229mm as a horizontal dimension but it should be the distance down from the top of the xmember to the centre of the eye.

Marking the centre of the bolts is a really good idea :D

Are you sure you can't cut the hanger off with the bodywork in place? I would have thought there would be enough room with the wheel off and the bumper off.

Cheers Charlie

[banjo]

G'day Banjo,
In your sketch you have 229mm as a horizontal dimension but it should be the distance down from the top of the xmember to the centre of the eye.

Marking the centre of the bolts is a really good idea :D

Are you sure you can't cut the hanger off with the bodywork in place? I would have thought there would be enough room with the wheel off and the bumper off.

Cheers Charlie


Yeah i ment to put an arrow on there as to where it should be..

Na the hanger is welded on every side & onto the front of the crossmember...

[banjo]

Looks like i will be pulling it apart & doing it properly . . .:mad: .

Better that way to . . .

[kaa45]

If you need a manual for the series 3, Jason. You can download it free from here: Land Rover Manuals, Part Catalogue, workshop manual, download pdf files, Landroverweb.com Linking your Landy to the World! (http://www.landroverweb.com/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-manual-pdf.htm)
Cheers
Danny

[TJWA]

A real quick fix would be to put a spacer between the axle mount and the top side of the leaf spring. If you made the spacer too thick you would have to get longer U bolts. This would also lower the vehicle.

[banjo]

If you need a manual for the series 3, Jason. You can download it free from here: Land Rover Manuals, Part Catalogue, workshop manual, download pdf files, Landroverweb.com Linking your Landy to the World! (http://www.landroverweb.com/Land-Rover-Range-Rover-manual-pdf.htm)
Cheers
Danny

Thanks Danny have done for future ref . . .

[banjo]

OK this is what i'm thinking of doing ..Since the drivers side is only a few mils out from the measurements today in the length from the rear center to front center , i'm not sure on the height from the top of the front cross member but i recon its going to be close but i will check.. Anyway the drivers side looks good all round so i was thinking of taking all the measurements from the drivers side & MAKING the passengers side the exact same measurements . so in theory this should give my steering the room it needs PLUS i will be putting new springs on aswell hopefuul this week or weekend . .

ANY THOUGHTS ????????
OR OPINIONS ????

[TJWA]

Sounds like the "proper" way to go to me.

[agrojnr]

OK this is what i'm thinking of doing ..Since the drivers side is only a few mils out from the measurements today in the length from the rear center to front center , i'm not sure on the height from the top of the front cross member but i recon its going to be close but i will check.. Anyway the drivers side looks good all round so i was thinking of taking all the measurements from the drivers side & MAKING the passengers side the exact same measurements . so in theory this should give my steering the room it needs PLUS i will be putting new springs on aswell hopefuul this week or weekend . .

ANY THOUGHTS ????????
OR OPINIONS ????


I could cut you a bunch of spacers up if you like

Adam

[banjo]

I could cut you a bunch of spacers up if you like

Adam

Thanks Adam i will try cutting the dumb iron & repositioning it first..
But i still mte need a spacer . . .

[Ausfree]

Goodonya Banj, I knew you wouldn't give up and drive a Crapodore!!!:):)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

A real quick fix would be to put a spacer between the axle mount and the top side of the leaf spring. If you made the spacer too thick you would have to get longer U bolts. This would also lower the vehicle.que?

So will this spacer be a wedge? If it's not it is a very crude correction that will correct the problem at one end of the spring and at the same time put the other end out.

If you have a bent chassis, or in this case an incorrect repair, you should correct the error rather than fudge the results!

[banjo]

OK i got all the measurements done today & there seems to only be 5mm out on each side.
But i did notice that the passenger side spring is wider & differant ...:mad:.
I also noticed that the diff has moved back on the passengers side maybe 2mm at most.That is probably my fault as i had to fix the center bolt & i only had one but it was a little smaller in size of the head..


Now from the top of the cross member to the center of the bolts are
Drivers side is 235mm
this side i can probably take
1 or 2 mm off as i have done some
welding & grinding on the top of the Xmember with the power steering..
.Passengers side is 230 +


From the rear chassis bolt center on the front spring to the center of the front bolt is..
Drivers side is 875 mm
.Passengers side 880mm.


Now if i cut the washes off the inside of the front drivers side i can move the hole the 5mm forward thats needed & weld the washes back in place & weld a washer to both sides on the outside this will put the spring in the right spot & not afect anything else.
For the passengers side i can do the same but move it down the few mills needed this will put this spring in the right spot for everything..


So that will put everything back inline & fine..


But the pasengers side spring is differant to all my other springs .


Any way i took a heap of pics , Have a look & tell me what use think .
Do use think this will corect the problem . . . .there only a poofteeth out realy..
REARS UP FIRST
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/775.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/776.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/777.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/778.jpg


OK THE FRONTS


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/779.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/780.jpg


PASSENGERS SIDE


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/781.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/782.jpg


https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/783.jpg


Now after sitting there & looking at both the front sides i recon the passengers side has a bit more of an arch. But then again that could just be me...


YES the drivers side tyre hits the spring as the bolt in the passenger side turn stop has broke, i will fix it once this is sorted..


THANKS guys ..





MAYBE I SHOULD JUST SWAP THEM OVER PASSENGERS TO THE DRIVERS & VICES VERSA . . . .

[banjo]

Maybe i should swap them over. The car sits level when its on level ground i think..from memory . . . :angel:

[banjo]

there seems to be more room between the rod & spring on the drivers side . . . :o

[TJWA]

Maybe i should swap them over. The car sits level when its on level ground i think..from memory . . . :angel:
there seems to be more room between the rod & spring on the drivers side . . . :o

I thought you were fitting new springs anyway? If not then yeah, swapping them may help. Those springs definately look different, they even have a different number of leaves hey?

[banjo]

I thought you were fitting new springs anyway? If not then yeah, swapping them may help. Those springs definately look different, they even have a different number of leaves hey?

I am was fitting springs new standard ones , was hoping i could put it off & get parobolics.. If i get the new springs should i move the bolts that little bit or just put the springs on . . . .

[TJWA]

que?

So will this spacer be a wedge? If it's not it is a very crude correction that will correct the problem at one end of the spring and at the same time put the other end out.

If you have a bent chassis, or in this case an incorrect repair, you should correct the error rather than fudge the results!

sí! :cool:
I thought it was a great idea :D.

I have the feeling the different spring may be causing more of his problem than the chassis being a little out.

[TJWA]

I am was fitting springs new standard ones , was hoping i could put it off & get parobolics.. If i get the new springs should i move the bolts that little bit or just put the springs on . . . .

I would swap the springs over that you have, or fit new ones first. I honestly don't think moving the bolt hole down 5mm will make the difference you need. It's not that bad a job to change springs, I did it a month ago and then again two weeks ago when one of my new parabolics broke!

[TJWA]

By the way, I'd fix that bump stop before you go four wheel driving, I have had a tyre hit a spring before in four wheel drive and broken a half shaft uni!

What kind of tyres are those?

Oh, and on the chassis thing, my chassis may be out more than yours (probably due to being dropped from a helicopter). :Rolling:

[agrojnr]

Here ya go banjo

265627 11 leaf front
272967 8 leaf RH rear
272968 8 leaf LH rear
276034 11 RH front

The D/S springs are slightly stiffer than the passenger due to the driver and truck so if you swap yours over the driverside gets lower then im guessing it had the right spring

Adam

[TJWA]

Here ya go banjo

265627 11 leaf front
272967 8 leaf RH rear
272968 8 leaf LH rear
276034 11 RH front

The D/S springs are slightly stiffer than the passenger due to the driver and truck so if you swap yours over the driverside gets lower then im guessing it had the right spring

Adam
Oh dear, I didn't realise they were meant to be different. :wasntme: The parabolics are exactly the same, left and right.

[banjo]

Oh dear, I didn't realise they were meant to be different. :wasntme: The parabolics are exactly the same, left and right.


Yeah was told that...When we had the series 2a LWB we put brandnew springs on it which we got from all4X4 newcastle & i asked them if they where handed L/R .They said na all new springs are made to be the same .Then i said is it posabable to put them in back to front they said no there was no front or back to each spring..The springs we got a price on are Max Trax 9 leaf Fronts & 11 leaf Rears .Thin as they are surposed to be a tad softer ride.
BLOODY rain i cant do a thing till it stops now..

[banjo]

My bigest concerne is if i go & get the new springs & they have a bigger arch & it hits i'mdown $500 & still not fixed it..I think if i swap the front sides it would be ok But can't do that till the rain stops now..But if i di that what happens when the springs get flogged out & i need new ones anyway..Maybe i should just get one of the new front springs & put it on the passengers side & see if it does hit, If not great go & get the rest of them. If not just change them the sides over & so be it...:mad:

[banjo]

OOPS suns out i could be in luck..:o.
I guess i can change them over see what happens like TJ said its not hard..

[agrojnr]

Just a thought has it always hit or just since you did the power steer conversion??

My thought is that the arm coming off the power steer unit hangs down lower than the original steering relay arm hence the less of an angle between the spring and the steer rod.

Just a thought

Adam

[banjo]

Well i spent all day changing the spring over & its still the same maybe worse as the bracket is a little thicker on this spring..So its gunna have to go up for sale as i am not going to spend out $500 for new springs & have the same thing over again.Have know idea as to why its happend or happening..I couldn't get any movement in the swivel when i jacked it up to see if that was it as advised but ah well.Just went & measured from the ground to the center of the drain plug , on the passengers side it was 350mm ish & the drivers side is 345mm.I have run out of ideas & patience & money..Mite just put it in the markets as a buy or swap or trade same on Ebay..

[banjo]

Just a thought has it always hit or just since you did the power steer conversion??

My thought is that the arm coming off the power steer unit hangs down lower than the original steering relay arm hence the less of an angle between the spring and the steer rod.

Just a thought

Adam

Never had a drive or rego before power steering But yes it is a lower angle..I thought of bending the rod at the wheel end a bit but as its drilled for the tie rod i would hate to stuff it up..Plus the tie rod (ball joint) would be on a smallish angle....

[banjo]

Been driving it around for a year with know troubles just in the last couple of months its done this..

[banjo]

I took some pics of the spring while they where out.
I laid them on top of each other & lined up the front hole but the rear didn't line up & i think there was a bit of differance in the arch..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/716.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/717.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/718.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/719.jpg

The first 2 i was trying to show the holes..

[banjo]

Actualy when i did the power steering , from memory i lined the steering arm up with the original one. so it is lower but i dont think by much..

Went through all the pics & found these not the best but the closest i could find..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/714.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/715.jpg

:mad::mad::mad::mad:

[agrojnr]

Here is what I would do

Take your springs to a place that can re-set them and get them to match the saged spring (pass side) to the other

Then fix your steering stop so the clamp does not touch the spring (slightly smaller turning circle but who cares)

Drive it till ya save the bucks and replace the lot.

Over here I got 2 leave springs re-set 3 inch lower plus got 2 lowered coils in my falcon wgn and it only cost 300 bucks but as you are doing it yourself it should be heaps cheaper.

DON'T sell the car as its too far from me:D

Adam

[chazza]

Don't sell Banjo - you will only regret it!

Do as Adam suggests and get the springs re-set; it looks like they could do with a good overhaul anyway,

Cheers Charlie

[banjo]

I can aford the new springs at the end of this week or next week as our tax money will be in the bank..I just don't want to fork it out & have the same trouble..

But Karens car runs out of rego in a couple of weeks & we need a car so it would be mine as our everyday car but now this has happend..

So i have to get it sorted quick & good so it can be an everyday car.. Or i just sell it or trade it or swap it for a car that we can use as an everyday car...

So it looks as though it will be going as i have know idea what to do or to look for anymore . . . . I'll sell it for $7000 or trade it or swap it..:mad::mad:

[agrojnr]

You don't need new springs just get them re-set too slighly higher than the D/S spring easy takes 1 day

Then FIX the steering stop you DON'T NEED NEW SPRINGS:)

Adam

[banjo]

Na we where going to replace them anyway as they are about the only thing we didn't do when building it . .Plus i would realy like all the springs to match . .
I will do the steering stop tomorrow if i can find another bolt the same & can get the broken one out. . . . . .

[agrojnr]

Let me know about the steering stop bolt I have a couple from a rangie that may fit

Glad to see your not selling :cool:

Adam

[banjo]

Na i been trying to get stuff sorted for Ebay & the Markets . But i seem to keep answering posts . . .

[TJWA]

Don't do it man! It can be fixed. If you get another vehicle you will be starting from scratch again with a whole new set of problems.

I know that changing the springs took a whole day, I'm assuming that you had trouble getting a shackle or two undone? When I do mine I jack up the car from the crossmember behind the engine. I then support it via the side rails on stands. Just think, it will be easier next time.:)

[Mick-Kelly]

Definitely dont sell. One of my biggest regrets is selling my first series 3. It was a great car and i sold it under similar circumstances to you as a short term fix. Regret it massively now.

[banjo]

Don't do it man! It can be fixed. If you get another vehicle you will be starting from scratch again with a whole new set of problems.

I know that changing the springs took a whole day, I'm assuming that you had trouble getting a shackle or two undone? When I do mine I jack up the car from the crossmember behind the engine. I then support it via the side rails on stands. Just think, it will be easier next time.:)

NA some dickhead didn't jack up the car high enough before putting it on stands . So was hard going getting them back in . . . .

I can get the new springs tomorrow morning but what am i going to do if its still the same..& if it is the same i may as well sell it cause it will be sitting there for some time before i get it sorted.I'm stuffed if i can work it out we have been driving the damn thing around for a year & now this . . .
Actualy i would probably end up swaping it atleast i should get a car with rego & going onroad without this headache . . .
Just debaiting wether to take out the cb,uhf,stereo,duel batteries,little fridge,hilift before or just let it go with it as i doubt i will get another one ...

[djam1]

My Stage 1 is standard from the steering perspective and its the same hope this helps

[agrojnr]

Banjo if you just fix the steering stop then it would solve all the problems yes??

So why not just do that for now as it will stop the clamp hitting the spring.

If you don't fix that it will all most certain that it will touch the new spring

Adam

[banjo]

My Stage 1 is standard from the steering perspective and its the same hope this helps


Does yours hit aswell.

[banjo]

Banjo if you just fix the steering stop then it would solve all the problems yes??

So why not just do that for now as it will stop the clamp hitting the spring.

If you don't fix that it will all most certain that it will touch the new spring

Adam

Yep doing that today . but the rod & spring are very close even before turning the wheel.. Picking up the new spring today .. What i mite do is jack it up & put something under the steering arm on the passengers wheel & gently let it down on it just to see if there is movement in the swivel , i couldn't get any by hand but everything is old so i will just check..

[banjo]

For some reason i recon when i put the new springs in i recon i will have to undo the steering tie rod as i doubt it will go on with the new springs ..But atleast i will have them here & ready,Or in the back for whoever,....

[banjo]

Banjo if you just fix the steering stop then it would solve all the problems yes??

So why not just do that for now as it will stop the clamp hitting the spring.

If you don't fix that it will all most certain that it will touch the new spring

Adam

Just went & had a look at that & even if i fix & set it to the 12.5 mm its serposed to be it will still hit.. If i set it so that the bracket doesn't hit you would need a 3 point turn to just get around the corner..
Also jacked it up & put something under the steering arm on the passenger side wheel & gently lowered it & no movement..

I just can't understand how we could drive it around for a year or so with no trouble at all then this happens..

Is it posable to get a ball joint longer where it goes into the arm not the thread ????


Ah well someone will have fun trying to fix it once its gone...I'm clean out of ideas now...

[JDNSW]

........

Is it posable to get a ball joint longer where it goes into the arm not the thread ????
.....

If the ball and/or the upper seat wear, and the spring takes up the wear, then this would happen. But I can't imagine the amount would be very much.

John

[banjo]

Balljoints are all brandnew..
Managed to get the drivers side turn stop done ..
Need to drill the passengers side & use an extractor to get that one out so the drills on the charge now for in the morning....

Still for the life of me can't understand how we can drive it around for a year with no troubles now the bucket of **** wants to do this just about fully over it..

Is it posable that another model would have a higher arm that would clear to spring ????

None of my welds have broken or moved & there doesn't seem any evidance of any thing else moving so it ****s me ..


Now Fatty said she wont drive it unless its fixed properly as it would become an everyday car & she is in & out like a blue ass fly allday most days..

Now that i have changed the springs over the spring bracket is thicker on this one & when it hits you can see the rod move up over it now that can't be good..:mad::mad::mad::mad:
And the power steering box hasn't moved..

[banjo]

If the ball and/or the upper seat wear, and the spring takes up the wear, then this would happen. But I can't imagine the amount would be very much.

John

I thought i mite of been able to get a balljoint longer where it goes into the arm as that would lift the rod...

[djam1]

Does yours hit aswell.

Yes it does

[Timj]

Well I was under mine changing a couple of tie rod ends today and I was looking at it and trying to work out what could cause it to hit. When I first put new springs on I had to change the second wrap from the front from vertical pieces with a bolt across the top of the spring to ones that wrap over the top of the spring because it was hitting the steering arm. I just took the bolt out, heated the verticals and bent them over. Anyway though, looking at it today I think the only way yours could be a problem is if the spring has sagged. There is no other way for anything to move if it was ok originally but isn't now. Nothing else moves up and down in relation to the spring it is hitting on that I can see. So replacing the spring should fix your problem.

TimJ.

[banjo]

Didn't pick up the spring today been stuffing around with those turn stops its amazing how much time such a little job can turn into, Ah well passengers side tomorrow & if i'm lucky i mite even get a start on the springs . . cant see the sense in getting them reset as i would probably only save $100 to $150 i'm getting the full set NEW for $500 & all the Ubolts as well. . . . they are MAXTRAX brand springs ....I already have the new shock's on.Borrowed the passenger side bottom arm to check it against mine to see if it was bent & its not . .
Should be interesting to see what happens once the new springs are on & if it fixes or stuffs it...Wont know untill we try . . . . . :mad::o

[agrojnr]

Good luck mate hope it gets sorted




Adam

[banjo]

Thanks Adam i need all the luck i can get at the moment gets up this morning to find Karens car dead . . So picking up the spring should be interesting . . Wonder if they would let us on a bus with them . . .

[banjo]

Well i didn't get the springs & i didn't get the passengers side turn stop done either . But i did get the crapoyta going real good new plugs, leads & reset the points.. After i broke the rotor button & had to wait for repco to deliver one as my car don't steer . . .




Anyway i would like some advise . I have desided to not get the springs just yet as i like the old ones cause they are soft & comfy... But its still going to hit. Well because i have the power steering & the track rod ? is lower on the drivers side which puts it down on the passengers side the angle is lower..
So i want to bend the rod .Does anyone have any ideas as to where it should be bent , On the passengers side end i was thinking that way its closer the original angle & it should miss & not hit anymore . .Or should i bend it closer the steering damper. Or just back a bit from the balljoint on the passenger side say 4 or 5 inches . I only have about 10 to 15mm to play with above the damper because i have the PTO winch knuckle just above it . Although i would take that off & swap it for an electric one ..
Do use think this would be ok to do although we have thought about just getting a new one made & then bend it as if i bend this one it will be shorter..
I was a little concerned about the balljoint on the passenger side but it would be ok as the original angle is sharpish..
So what do use think would like all your input & thoughts . . . . .
Plus if i do do this when i do change the springs there shouldn't be any trouble of it hitting . . . .

THANKS Jason . . . . .

[JDNSW]

I would be reluctant to bend the drag link - once bent, it will be a lot weaker than when straight, although having said that, there are plenty of Landrovers have driven long distances, often for years, with bent drag links - after all, it is the first bit to hit the stump hidden in the grass that just fits below the bumper!

As an alternative, have you considered simply removing the fold over bits of the spring clamp? The spring will work perfectly well without them - the main function is to keep the leaves straight, and this is shared with the other one on the back side of the spring. A secondary function is to limit rebound, but the main operator for that function is the shock absorber.

John

[chazza]

I would re-set the old springs rather than mess with the drag-link.

Incidentally; I think it is a good idea of yours not to buy new springs, most reports seem to indicate that the best for suppleness are the Rover ones,

Cheers Charlie

[banjo]

OOPS i should of said my drag link is solid made from 4140 & drilled & taped at the ends .But if i did bend it i would of made another one ..
Yes i can cut the tops off that clamp i think doing that will give me about a 5mm clearance, i'm just worried about going 4WDiving when the passengers side goes up it mite hit & thats what i'm worried about as wouldn't that break the balljoint if it hits. But then again i think that would only happen is if i have right hand down & it comes up..
How much clearance is there on a standard one on right hand down between the spring & rod ???

[banjo]

Sorry guys i was wrong the passenger side wheel would have to drop down for it to hit the spring not up.So around town here it should be fine..Its just the 4Wdriving to worry about..:eek: .

[agrojnr]

I would not get it bent but see if someone can do a double roll on the tude that way it woulf keep its strength, you will need another piece of pipe about 10" longer to allow for the rolling and then trim.

The tie rod can handle the angle but may not last as long if it was sat in the original position, you could always look into rose joints but they are pricey

Adam

[banjo]

I would not get it bent but see if someone can do a double roll on the tude that way it woulf keep its strength, you will need another piece of pipe about 10" longer to allow for the rolling and then trim.
The tie rod can handle the angle but may not last as long if it was sat in the original position, you could always look into rose joints but they are pricey


Adam

I have know idea what you meen, Does that meen it would be arched ?? An arch type set up mite work . .



What is a rose joint ? where can i go to look at some on the net ? what do they do ? Ah Are they those joints that sit over a ball thing ??

[JDNSW]

I seem to remember a discussion on rose joints several years ago. One of the things that was pointed out is that they are illegal for on-road use (much discussion as to why).

Another solution occurs to me - get a reamer the same taper as the hole in the steering arm and ream it out - would not take much get raise it about an eighth of an inch. Might be cheaper to get an engineering shop to do it than to buy the reamer.

John

[drifter]

<snip>

Another solution occurs to me - get a reamer the same taper as the hole in the steering arm and ream it out - would not take much get raise it about an eighth of an inch. Might be cheaper to get an engineering shop to do it than to buy the reamer.

John

His tierod end goes in from the top so that would increase the problem, I think - unless you are talking about doing it at the drop-arm on the relay...




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/619.jpg

[drifter]

<snip>
As an alternative, have you considered simply removing the fold over bits of the spring clamp? The spring will work perfectly well without them - the main function is to keep the leaves straight, and this is shared with the other one on the back side of the spring. A secondary function is to limit rebound, but the main operator for that function is the shock absorber.

John

I had suggested that to him in a phone conversation - or grinding about 3mm off the fold-overs (they are about 5mm thick).

The worrying thing is why has it now occurred after about a year of use? Spring sag? Hitting a pothole? Is there an inherent problem now that may get worse with more time?

The 'new' springs are stiffer and flatter than the current ones - so it's probably not a good idea to spend $500 to see it get worse.

[TJWA]

If it was me, for now, I would just put a spacer between the top of the spring and the axle mount. You'd only need a 5mm plate to lift the axle and hence steering arm 5mm above the spring. If you're worried about that side ending up 5mm lower than the other then put an identical one on the drivers side too. Problem solved.

It sounds like Banjo needs a car he can drive on the road now and that would be the source of a lot of stress if it was me.

[banjo]

Ok this ****ing peice of **** ****ed up car is doing my ****ing head in, it mite be cheaper the insure the bucket of **** then burn the ****ing thing....

When i was building it the rolling chassis sat with just the engine in it for months while i was doing the body work & all the **** jobs no one likes to do...
Now when everything was put back on there was nothing in the car no seats or the like for another few months now it has seats in the front & back 2 batteries in the back center cubby box over head consol with sterio , cb , uhf. High lift on the back & a dirty big heavy PTO winch & bullbar off the front...With driving lights....
Now when we got it the last owner just drove it never maintained it & the bushes where gone & had been gone for some time as you could see where the front springs had been riding on the chassis so i replaced them & all was good till now..

Now with all this going on i have tried every thing every one has said to no avail...
Well i have been out under it for the last half hour looking as i was going to cut the bracketBRACKET...
Well when having a good look at how would be the easiest way with the grinder under there i noticed SOMETHING on both front springs which i haven't noticed before as i was looking at everything else..
Well i was under the front & noticed i could see THROUGH all the leaves on the passenger side at the front from the diff forward so i check the drivers side & guess what i see THROUGH them aswell but not as bad.. So if i cut that bracket i recon the spring will go twang & open up as the bracket seems to be holding it together some what. The drivers side isn't as bad but i can still see THROUGH..
Now i'm wondering if the fat lazy bastard i got the car from who had a bigger bullbar on the front & the PTO winch has been driving it with no bushes is it posable to kink the springs forward as it bashes around speicaly when you put the brakes on could it twist the spring like on old race cars when you put your foot down the rear springs kinda curve.????????
Now when we first started to drive it i know i had more of a gap between the spring & rod not much but enough & probably only just enough on full right lock as i didn't have a turn stop on that side for a whole year no trouble..

Also on the passenger side spring at both ends the second spring is very warn 3 to 4 mm thick i recon with a few hits from a hammer it would break the wrap off..
So now i cant cut the bracket.
I also jacked the car up fron the xmember under the front of the gearbox & the springs didn't change i could still see THROUGH & the gap between spring & rod did close but more so when the front wheels where off the ground...
SO WHAT ARE MY SPRINGS LIKE ANY GOOD ....?????????

[banjo]

Plus when Karen went & first looked at the car it was loaded to the hilt in the back with heavy stuff plus there where a heap of parts in it when i got it in the back heavy..Plus it had a full length roof rack basket full of crap & some of that was heavy aswell..

[djam1]

Banjo
You shouldnt be able to see daylight through a leaf spring that has weight on it on the other hand if it has no weight on it is quite acceptable.
I just looked at mine and note that the front springs have 11 leaves with 8 cm travel from the bump stop to the diff housing (yours looks like it has 6 cm indicating that the springs might be a bit tired. That being said mine is a Series 3 Stage 1 Chassis but I dont think they are that different in this area.
My steering rod has touched the spring in the past nothing of great concern just noticeable when the left spring is compressed.
Was the height of the steering arm the other end changed when you put power steering in this vehicle?
If you springs are stuffed they should be replaced if you cant afford it you can reset them your self I have done it before using an anvil and a hammering technique that I was shown years ago. I dont think this is really the best practice but will keep you moving be wary of doing this if the springs are really thin and rusted.

[JDNSW]

You should not see daylight through between the leaves when under load. This indicates that the spring leaves are probably being spread due to rust between the leaves close to the U-bolts. This distorts the shape of the spring, and may be the root source of the problem. If it is not too bad, it is probably possible to rectify it by removing and disassembling the spring and wire brushing off the rust. The spring leaves should then be painted, lubricated and reassembled.

John

[banjo]

Banjo
You shouldnt be able to see daylight through a leaf spring that has weight on it on the other hand if it has no weight on it is quite acceptable.
I just looked at mine and note that the front springs have 11 leaves with 8 cm travel from the bump stop to the diff housing (yours looks like it has 6 cm indicating that the springs might be a bit tired. That being said mine is a Series 3 Stage 1 Chassis but I dont think they are that different in this area.
My steering rod has touched the spring in the past nothing of great concern just noticeable when the left spring is compressed.
Was the height of the steering arm the other end changed when you put power steering in this vehicle?
If you springs are stuffed they should be replaced if you cant afford it you can reset them your self I have done it before using an anvil and a hammering technique that I was shown years ago. I dont think this is really the best practice but will keep you moving be wary of doing this if the springs are really thin and rusted.

Not realy but it is on the outside of the chassis now.....I'll measure between the bumpstop & diff in the morning...

I also had the spring apart when the center bolt needed fixing & looked ok...

[banjo]

Well Fatty has just left to go & pick up the new springs don't know when i will get a chance to fit them as it looks like rain this arvo & it surposed to rain all week , Plus we have the pamphlets today to do & the papers tomorrow...

[banjo]

AH look aren't they pretty ..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/519.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/520.jpg


After taking some measurements the clamp that mine is hitting now shouldn't be to much of a problem with the new ones as its closer to the diff which will put it just between the 2 rods or posably just under the rod between the 2 wheels...

Since when did springs come with out the spring bush fitted ????

[Timj]

They look good. On mine though the second clamp from the front was hitting the steering rod so I had to take the bolt out, heat them up and bend them over to create a wrap. I also took mine apart, took out some leaves and diamond cut and chamfered the ends to make them work a bit better.

TimJ.

[The ho har's]

Since when did springs come with out the spring bush fitted ????

Mine I picked last week for zara had them;)

you posted twice so I did as well;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[JDNSW]

It appears they are not handed - all Series LAndrovers have different right and left spring camber so they sit level, and you may find this is a problem.

John

[The ho har's]

It appears they are not handed - all Series LAndrovers have different right and left spring camber so they sit level, and you may find this is a problem.

John

It apears not anymore John..when we ordered ours we were told the same on both sides:(

Mrs hh:angel:

[banjo]

Well i put the springs on today they made a little differance but not heaps.
I ended up puting a plate under the diff was hoping i had a 4mm but only had a 5mm.. that fixed it . . .
The brackets on the new springs Are just rubing on the rod between the wheels so i will have to take out the bolt & bend them with a hammer as i don't got a oxy . . . .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/476.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/477.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/478.jpg

Is it posable for the swivel bush's to have moved or broke & something jamed or stuck or something to stop it from moving back to where it should be if there was movement & it has moved..

How hard is it to change the swivel bush's top & bottom . . .

The plate i put in still lets the center bolt top poke through just so it will hold the diff cause i was worried it the diff would move . . .

I cant have driven it for a year with no trouble for nothing to have happend & then all of a sudden this something must have moved or broke & i can't see anything broken . .

I realy am at my wits end now . . .

we got a price on the top & bottom bush's for the swivels tops where $70 each & bottoms where $25 .

I realy realy don't know anymore . .

But we have got all the details ready to put it up for sale now so i mite have to just let it go . . .

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Are you sure that you have the springs centred on the axle assembly?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/475.jpg

It sure doesn't look like it to me!

See the difference between the position of the bottom leaf in relation to the plate at the front and rear of the axle tube in the image.

In fact the more I look at it the more I realize it's been bodgied up. That strap around the axle assembly is not original and neither is the plate where the spring centre pin is supposed to locate.

[banjo]

Are you sure that you have the springs centred on the axle assembly?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/475.jpg

It sure doesn't look like it to me!

See the difference between the position of the bottom leaf in relation to the plate at the front and rear of the axle tube in the image.

In fact the more I look at it the more I realize it's been bodgied up. That strap around the axle assembly is not original and neither is the plate where the spring centre pin is supposed to locate.


Yeah the center bolt went into the hole in the diff.. . .Those plates are longer at the back for the shockie mount..

[groucho]

" neither is the plate where the spring centre pin is supposed to locate"

I'd say Diana is near the mark. The spring saddle is about half an inch not thick enough or long enough too...

[groucho]

Have a look at the spring saddle/ mount a bit of difference there.
Went out and looked at mine and it is a lot thicker










https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/472.jpg

[banjo]

Have a look at the spring saddle/ mount a bit of difference there.
Went out and looked at mine and it is a lot thicker










https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/472.jpg

I have never seen one like that before ..
Isn't yours a stage 1 do they have a differant diff . . . .

I need to see more now to see if mine is wrong ?:confused: :BigCry::BigCry::BigCry:

[groucho]

They are all like that
I'll take a piccy of my series 3 in the morning. They are a cast saddle.
I might have a series 3 front diff housing in the clutter. dowd the w/shop.
I'll look tomorrow.......

[bblaze]

Why dont you take the bolt out and do like in this pic or cut the top off and weld a 3mm x 25 mm strap across the tophttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/470.jpg
cheers
blaze

[banjo]

Why dont you take the bolt out and do like in this pic or cut the top off and weld a 3mm x 25 mm strap across the tophttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/470.jpg
cheers
blaze


Yeah i have to do that aswell . . .

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Firstly fix the axle housing. Better still replace the the whole assembly with one that that hasn't been butchered.

Then, you don't need to weld anything, do it the way it's done in the spring works, clamp the spring pack leaves together, remove the bolt, then heat the flange and bend it over.

A bit of paint on the leaves wouldn't go astray either.

[TJWA]

As Lotz-A-Landies said, or just put another spacer plate under the drivers side mount.

If there was a problem with your swivel housing bearing or Raiko bush to drop your axle by that much, you would have noticed a difference in your steering (would have loosend right up and shuddered after hitting bumps) and the swivel seals would have dropped out all your oil IMO.

Here's mine with parabolics. They actually came with plates on top of the springs.

[TJWA]

In fact the more I look at it the more I realize it's been bodgied up. That strap around the axle assembly is not original and neither is the plate where the spring centre pin is supposed to locate.

I can't see the difference to mine.:o

[groucho]

The series 3 basic springs




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/464.jpg

[groucho]

L/H spring saddle





https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/463.jpg

[groucho]

L/H spring saddle




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/459.jpg

[groucho]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/462.jpg

[groucho]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/461.jpg

[groucho]

Looking back at all of your early piccys i don't think the saddles are
a major problem. It's hard to tell, a few side pics would be better.
The spacer plates are maybe all you need.......

[banjo]

OK going by all the pics there mine are fine same as TJs & same as grouchos ....

So something has happend some where i have know idea.
Unless its the front spring mount being out by 5mm which i doubt would realy do to much & the plate i put it would offset it the same amount..

I'm not going to paint them as there are brandnew..
I have one of those butane torches about a foot hight i wll try heating it up with that to bend the tabs, But theres no way i'm taking them off again just to do that so i will do it on the car somehow safely ...
Since i'm only a small & skinny fella & rolling around on that slab has bruised me from head to toe so noway am i going to take them off again....:D.

[banjo]

I can't do anything at the moment as its rainy so i will have to wait till it fines up & drys things out a bit....

But i think that plate has done it & i will put a 3mm plate under the other side so they are both spaced the same from the springs & bend the tabs of those brackets as the back rod hits a little & so does the steering it rubs the side of the top of it so once bent i think it should be ok & it will only be close to the spring on full right lock after i fix the turn stop on that side..

[banjo]

L/H spring saddle




https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/459.jpg


This is exactly the same as mine . . . .

[groucho]

What you probably have is a set of 9 leaf springs that have done their fair share of work and have lost some set. The pic of the stage one sits higher as it has 11 leaves with a spacer. With fitting holden motors bullbars winches ect it would be ideal to get a set of 10 or 11 leaf springs to handle the weight. Just fix the spring clips and use it.
Like the saying goes "If it's got tits or tyres you'll always have problems"......

[banjo]

What you probably have is a set of 9 leaf springs that have done their fair share of work and have lost some set. The pic of the stage one sits higher as it has 11 leaves with a spacer. With fitting holden motors bullbars winches ect it would be ideal to get a set of 10 or 11 leaf springs to handle the weight. Just fix the spring clips and use it.
Like the saying goes "If it's got tits or tyres you'll always have problems"......


Crap my new ones are only 9 leaf front & 11 rear...
The new one are on the car....

[banjo]

Hey guys could someone take a pic of a standard series 3 setup on full right lock, I just want to double check mine.


I'm going to put the slitest of bends in my steering rod to over come the thickness of the new one probably about 3mm which will make a huge differance..

I still have to do the turn stop on the passenger side , But i was trying to get the clamps bent over today till it started to rain so hurried up to pack up came inside made a cuppa just sits down & the bloody sun is out again....

Now when its on full right lock the balljoint just rubs the clamp so i'm going to cut the corner off the spring clamp to give the clearance needed & it should all be fine..

Those clamps are hard going to bend i have to heat up a bit then belt with hammer to bend then do it again...
Only got one of those small propane bottles with the nosel on the end but its getting there....

This is turned to the left while i was working . .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/367.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/368.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/369.jpg

And i need to cut the Ubolts as they are way to long . .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/370.jpg

These two are with the wheels straight there is much more room than before . . . .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/371.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/372.jpg

Thanks Jason . . .

[djam1]

Jason I personally wouldn't stuff around with a little gas torch you may damage the spring, all you need to do is put a jack under the spring clamp take off the steering arm and bend the tabs down with a Mash hammer.

Oh and cut those U bolts off if you hit a rock and bend them over it will be a pain and DONT go bending steering components to compensate for another problem it may end in very expensive tears (eg you wipe someone out because your bent steering arm fails)

[banjo]

Jason I personally wouldn't stuff around with a little gas torch you may damage the spring, all you need to do is put a jack under the spring clamp take off the steering arm and bend the tabs down with a Mash hammer.

Oh and cut those U bolts off if you hit a rock and bend them over it will be a pain and DONT go bending steering components to compensate for another problem it may end in very expensive tears (eg you wipe someone out because your bent steering arm fails)

What is a mash hammer :confused:. I have big hammer will that do. .?

[banjo]

Yeah i should of got them to machime the end where that clamp is so it would of sat flush but never thought of that back then . .

[The ho har's]

Aren't yours parabolic springs???

can take a piccky of zara's nice news springs we did last weekend but they are just the standard ones;)

Mrs hh

[Ausfree]

C'mon Jason, you can do it, I can't give you an answer to your problem but jeez you have some good advice here, surely the answer is close:D

[groucho]

Why dont you cut the tops of the clamp plates and make a U shape one and weld to the front sides in front of the ones already there ?. Aftre a while the rivet becomes loose and the flop around anyway....... Just a bodge thought.

[banjo]

Aren't yours parabolic springs???

can take a piccky of zara's nice news springs we did last weekend but they are just the standard ones;)

Mrs hh


HAHAHA na i haven't won lotto yet . . .:D

[banjo]

Why dont you cut the tops of the clamp plates and make a U shape one and weld to the front sides in front of the ones already there ?. Aftre a while the rivet becomes loose and the flop around anyway....... Just a bodge thought.

Was thinking of that but now i have started to bend the brackets i think its going to be ok..

[banjo]

C'mon Jason, you can do it, I can't give you an answer to your problem but jeez you have some good advice here, surely the answer is close:D

I think it is sorted i would just like to have a look at a series 3 standard set up on full right lock to double check mine & that should be it . . .

[The ho har's]

As I said will take a piccy on the weelend:)

Mrs hh:angel:

[banjo]

As I said will take a piccy on the weelend:)

Mrs hh:angel:


Thanks Mrs HH.

I was just giving Aus some stick thats all . . .

[Ausfree]

Well, I guess if it turns, it's fixed isn't it???:angel:

[djam1]

Aren't yours parabolic springs???

can take a piccky of zara's nice news springs we did last weekend but they are just the standard ones;)

Mrs hh

No they appear to be normal series springs

[banjo]

Well took the front springs off AGAIN this morning to bend the brackets got that all done & they are back on & everything looks good . Also cut the corner off the passengers side bracket aswell so the steering rod clears it all together now..

Just have to fix the turn stop on the passengers side as i was going to do that but it rained so had to bolt up the suspension quick & pack up..
Also have to cut the Ubolts as they are way to long & it will all be done & back on the road ..YAY


When its all done i want to drive it up one of the ramps on full lock right to make sure it doesn't hit when the passenger wheel is right up..Will also drive the drivers side up aswell so i can make sure nothing hits that way aswell..
Will get some pics when i am doing this as i just want to be sure it wont hit at all up or down . . .

[banjo]

Well i was able to get out there & Get it finished today & it seems to be good . Got lots of pics for use. I think its good but use tell me what use think..????

On the ground with the wheels straight..
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/89.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/90.jpg

Hard right on the ground
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/91.jpg

Right hand down & up on the ramp.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/92.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/93.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/94.jpg

Right hand down & drivers side wheel up on the ramp..

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/95.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/96.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/97.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/98.jpg

Left hand down & up on the ramp...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/99.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/100.jpg

Left hand down & drivers side up on the ramp . .

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/101.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/102.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/103.jpg

If you look at the pics of it right hand down & the drivers side up on the ramp the balljoint is very close to the spring BUT it isn't touching & i think it would have to come up heaps on the drivers side for it to hit. That is the only on i am concerned about & would like some imput on...

BUT IT IS DONE & DRIVEABLE WWWOOOOOHHHHOOOOO...

[banjo]

I also fixed the turn stop on the passengers side .I drilled it to use an extractor but i drilled it crooked so i drilled it right out & put a bolt with a nut on the back.. They are both set at 12mm ... . I wasn't going to stuff around for half a mill....


DID I MENTION THAT ITS DONE & FINISHED .......

[bblaze]

this week is end better for you than a few past ones, hope things keep going this way for you and Karen. Be good to be able to sneak a bit of a drive out in the bush even if its only to smell the fresh air
cheers
blaze

[Ausfree]

Good stuff, Banj!!!!:D:D

[The ho har's]

:arms::arms::arms::arms:

well done banjo:D

Mrs hh:angel:

[agrojnr]

Great to hear well done looks good too:cool:

Adam

[TJWA]

Good thing you kept your senses and didn't sell it. ;)
Glad to see it's all sorted.