D3 - Passenger vehicle - Panel Van ?

[gps-au]

Well I managed to get a parking ticket today in the "city of Sydney" for parking on a loading zone.

Nice lady bomber, explained to me that most 4wds are not station wagons, my explanation of being from QLD (my licence is, thou the vehicle is NSW), she suggest writting to explain and she noted some details on her ticket record.

When I finally found my vehicle registration papers later, I noticed that some details were wrong, showing 7 instead of 5 seats and the type of vehicle as "PVF" which it seems translates to Panel Van with Windows.

Now a Panel van is not a station wagon, but is it a goods carry vehicle ? I would have thought so, but haven't yet been able to locate definition on the RTA web site.

Anybody got a clue on this ?

[Duck's Guts]

Not a station wagon!!!!!! :eek:
A D4 & other 4WD's are Panel Vans with windows?????? :o
WHAT THE!!!!!

I'll have a look at my rego papers tomorrow for the D4, Pathie, & 100 series (they are at work). I'm pretty sure they say "SWG".

[gps-au]

The hardest at the moment is trying to find an actual definition of a "PANEL VAN" somewhere in the various bits of legislation.

You might not that at least in NSW most 4wds are excluded from being "station wagons". I was told that due to the weight of the D3 its classed as a panel van.

Its b.confusing.

[BigJon]

I thought loading zones were for loading and unloading goods. I wasn't aware there was a vehicle type defined for using loading zones. What about couriers in Hyundais, etc?

[gps-au]

I thought loading zones were for loading and unloading goods. I wasn't aware there was a vehicle type defined for using loading zones. What about couriers in Hyundais, etc?

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/loadingzone_brochure_0409.pdf

specific mention:
<quote>

Please note:
The majority of 4WD vehicles,
hatchbacks and other coupé and sports
type vehicles are not defined as station
wagons under NSW Regulations.
These vehicles are not principally
designed and constructed for carrying
goods and therefore, they are excluded
from parking in loading zones.
</quote>

Its this mention which makes being a panel van interesting.... if we can find a suitable definition in an Act somewhere.....

[eddomak]

My 7 seater D4 has WAG on the NSW Rego papers and according to the RTA website, this means it is classified as a Station Wagon.

Pg 35 of the Motor Dealer's Guide http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/motordealersguide.pdf

In the past my 3 door Suzuki Vitara was allowed to park 30 minutes in loading zones, and my Subaru Outback was allowed 15 mins. I thought I was still allowed 30 mins in the D4, but will try to clarify with someone as well.

Note that in Canberra you need a special permit/sticker to park in their loading zones (I found out the hard way many years ago...)

[gps-au]

My 7 seater D4 has WAG on the NSW Rego papers and according to the RTA website, this means it is classified as a Station Wagon.

Pg 35 of the Motor Dealer's Guide http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/motordealersguide.pdf

In the past my 3 door Suzuki Vitara was allowed to park 30 minutes in loading zones, and my Subaru Outback was allowed 15 mins. I thought I was still allowed 30 mins in the D4, but will try to clarify with someone as well.

Note that in Canberra you need a special permit/sticker to park in their loading zones (I found out the hard way many years ago...)

Thats the document I was looking for :-) many thanks.

My previous vehicle (qld rego) was a jimny and was a station wagon.
previous to that was a 10 seat (front changed to 2 buckets) hz75 (toyo) and was a bus ....

So trivetts are going to provide a blue slip to change from 7 to 5 seats (its a 5 seat "S"), and it seems the PVF will change prob to WAG. though I think I would rather it as a PVF for loading zones :-)

Ok, so whats the rest of the NSW D3 & D4 rego'd as ??

[Nomad9]

When my work ute got booked for parking in a loading zone it was because the company insignia on the doors was less than 150 mm square, if the sign had been 50 mm bigger it would have qualified as a vehicle dropping or picking up goods, the fact that the ute was booked at 19:00 hrs and all the shops were shut had absolutely nothing to do with anything!!!! Crazy rules, crazy times!!!

[Neil P]

.... if we can find a suitable definition in an Act somewhere....
.... or park in the right place and save yourself a load
of bother ......... You should know better than sailing
into the wind with parking zones . Not worth the trouble just
to park a vehicle

[Duck's Guts]

Not a station wagon!!!!!! :eek:
A D4 & other 4WD's are Panel Vans with windows?????? :o
WHAT THE!!!!!

I'll have a look at my rego papers tomorrow for the D4, Pathie, & 100 series (they are at work). I'm pretty sure they say "SWG".

I stand corrected. They all have body shapes of "PVF".

RTA document at http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/motordealersguide.pdf
identifies "PVF" as a TRUCK code for "Panel Van with Windows & Seats 4WD".

[gps-au]

I stand corrected. They all have body shapes of "PVF".

RTA document at http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/motordealersguide.pdf
identifies "PVF" as a TRUCK code for "Panel Van with Windows & Seats 4WD".

It seems to be something with the weight that its classified as PVF instead of a wagon. But it just doesn't seem consistant.

PVF seems better for loading zones :-) though in NSW 15 mins should be safe.

Some time in the past few years it seems that the NSW gov. has wanted to stop ALL 4wd's from using loading zones.... still researching that.

[bbyer]

Here in Alberta, and I guess most of Canada and the States, parking in loading zones depends upon the type of license plates one purchases.

In general terms, if the vehicle owner has purchased what are called "Commercial" plates, then the vehicle regardless of type or make can park in loading zones. Commercial vehicle license plate cost is based on gross vehicle weight; Passenger vehicle plates, on wheelbase. What effectively this means is that Commercial plates on a long wheelbase car can cost less than Passenger plates on the same car. Regardless of purpose, our license plates tend to be used by Government just as tracking devices rather than revenue generators. As such, the cost runs generally less than a hundred dollars a year on a 3.

To purchase Commercial plates, generally the vehicle has to be registered as being owned by a business, but there are exceptions. In the case where an owner has purchased vanity plates, (say on your Rolls or Hummer), but registered the vehicle commercially, one can obtain a sticker to place on the windscreen so as to allow parking in a loading zone.

[CaverD3]

http://ols2.rta.nsw.gov.au/ebus/docs/rescat/pdf/5/584/45094715Loadz04-2009.pdf

Doesn't look good;doesn't mention panel vans.
First bit is the problem:

What is a
station wagon?
A station wagon is a vehicle having all of the following features.
1. Has a sedan equivalent. That is, the body forward of the
front seat or seats and the greater part of the mechanical
equipment, is the same or substantially the same as in a
car of the same make and
2. Has a flat roof extending at the same height to the rear
of the vehicle. That is, the body is carried without significant
reduction in height from the front seat or seats to the rear
of the vehicle and
3. Has an entrance at the rear suitable for the loading and
unloading goods and
4. Is manufactured with a rear seat or seats which can be
folded or removed readily to provide additional floor
space for the carriage of goods and
5. That when the seat or seats immediately to the rear of
the front seat or seats are in position for passengers, has
a substantial space for the carriage of goods in proportion
to the overall size of the interior of the vehicle.

However panel vans are mentioned here, but so are 4WDs:

North Sydney Council - Parking Signs & Rules (http://www.northsydney.nsw.gov.au/www/html/5954-parking-signs--rules.asp)

Blame Mr Scruby for your ticket. :mad:

http://www.walk.com.au/pedestriancouncil/page.asp?pageid=718

[gps-au]

http://ols2.rta.nsw.gov.au/ebus/docs/rescat/pdf/5/584/45094715Loadz04-2009.pdf

Doesn't look good;doesn't mention panel vans.


Yup, Its the "No Sedan equivalent" which is the problem. as a Station Wagon.

I still would like a definition of a "Panel Van".

[furrydog]

I know in Brisbane you can park in a loading zone, if you have a commercial vehicle i.e. a vehicle which is registered with a business and with signage on it. I am not sure if the signage is required but I had new work van once without the company logo on it and I was given a parking ticket in loading zone but when the logo was on the van I never received a parking fine in a loading zone.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

AFAIK In NSW it's whether the vehicle is both a goods carrying vehicle Ute/van/stn wag or truck AND registered as business purposes which shows on the label.

[gps-au]

AFAIK In NSW it's whether the vehicle is both a goods carrying vehicle Ute/van/stn wag or truck AND registered as business purposes which shows on the label.


Actually, your wrong for NSW.

Registered as business purposes has nothing to do with anything really except maybe insurance.

All references previously, nothing mentions business purposes...

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Actually, your wrong for NSW.

Registered as business purposes has nothing to do with anything really except maybe insurance.

All references previously, nothing mentions business purposes...That's not what the parking infringement officer told me as she wrote out my last ticket for parking in a Loading Zone.

[gps-au]

That's not what the parking infringement officer told me as she wrote out my last ticket for parking in a Loading Zone.

Well it makes no difference according to the law it seems, and yes I do have business rego.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Well it makes no difference according to the law it seems, and yes I do have business rego.So I should have challenged the ticket then? Damned Clover Moore and SCC!

[gps-au]

So I should have challenged the ticket then? Damned Clover Moore and SCC!

Depends upon the your vehicle classification.

its not shown on the label, but but on you actual paperwork.

Is it wagon of pvl ?

[Gullible]

Remember a loading zone is for loading or unloading.

If you are not loading or unloading you can be booked regardless of what vehicle you are in. So do not sit in a loading zone in the city and eat your lunch......

Loading zones are - "for the use of vehicles principally designed and constructed for carrying goods"

Your D3 was designed principally for carrying passengers, so unless you have a goods delivery docket you'll be wasting your time going to court.

That and the fact the magistrate may add is $60 court fees on top of the fine. Cop it on the chin and learn the lesson like the rest of us have :(

[Gullible]

I thought loading zones were for loading and unloading goods. I wasn't aware there was a vehicle type defined for using loading zones. What about couriers in Hyundais, etc?


They will have delivery dockets or proof of delivery and often have the rear seats removed, cargo barriers fitted, which brings them under the definition of "principally designed and CONSTRUCTED for carrying goods"

[gps-au]

I wonder why ?

Happen to speak to the NSW Office of State Revenue on another (non related) matter....

So I happened to ask about loading zones... my contact indicated that standard procedure, is to check registration classification, if ticket is NOT issue for overstay, and vehicle is classed as a station wagon to immediately kill off the ticket. The OSR cannot determine if there is a sedan equivalent of the wagon and they appear not to be interested in that side of things. Private or business registration makes no difference.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

That's not what the parking infringement officer told me as she wrote out my last ticket for parking in a Loading Zone.Well guys I listened to your learned information and now (as of 14 July) have been sent an infringement notice. $141.00 of it :mad:

Subsequently following up with the RTA and their brochure on Road Rule 179 http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/rulesregulations/downloads/loadingzone_brochure_0409.pdf and read the note: Please note: "The majority of 4WD vehicles, hatchbacks and other coupé and sports type vehicles are not defined as station wagons under NSW Regulations. These vehicles are not principally designed and constructed for carrying goods and therefore, they are excluded from parking in loading zones."

The interesting thing is that after ringing the SDRO I find my RRc is described on it's registration as "panel van with windows" and that was entered at the RTA pits in Botany. Lets see what happens?

Diana

[Gullible]

So were you loading or unloading this time?

[Lotz-A-Landies]

So were you loading or unloading this time?I was delivering medical imaging films to a doctor, that constitutes goods.

And in case any of you lot in NSW want to argue the point, I have appealed the issue and it has been declined. "We confirm vehicle registration XXXXX is described as a panel van with windows and seats in Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) records. According to Rule 179 of Road Rules 2008 this type of is not permitted to park in a loading zone as it is not a station wagon, a motor bike that has 3 wheels or a motor vehicle constructed principally for the conveyance of goods. We attach a copy of the RTA Loading Zone brochure for your attention."

Which one of you'se lot that advised me I can legally park is going to pay the fine!

[gps-au]

I was delivering medical imaging films to a doctor, that constitutes goods.

And in case any of you lot in NSW want to argue the point, I have appealed the issue and it has been declined. "We confirm vehicle registration XXXXX is described as a panel van with windows and seats in Roads and Traffic Authority (RTA) records. According to Rule 179 of Road Rules 2008 this type of is not permitted to park in a loading zone as it is not a station wagon, a motor bike that has 3 wheels or a motor vehicle constructed principally for the conveyance of goods. We attach a copy of the RTA Loading Zone brochure for your attention."

Which one of you'se lot that advised me I can legally park is going to pay the fine!

I just got my email response today... same :(

Which means that I have to try for a reclassification when we do a blue slip to correct the dealer error of number of seats of my "S".

I want a change from PVL to a station wagon, that will solve the problem acording to my rta source.

[Tinman]

Ive tried to change my D3 PVF to a station wagon at the RTA, had a heated conservation with the boss but they would not change it. He told me that they are imported into the country without the rear seats they are then regoed then the seats are then fitted to them here in Australia. He told me this why they carry the PVF type on the rego. You can imagine what I said to this. Anyway because of this I am able to have quartly rego which I have been doing for the last 4 1/2 years, $200 a quarter, not so bad on the pocket:)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

I'm not sure that you'll have a lot of success because they have made an exclusion for 4WDs in Road Rule 179.

It would be better challenging the validity of the legislation through the courts. Perhaps a class action. IMHO the best place to start would be a Defender station wagon. The problem is going to be based upon the RTA's definition that to be a "station wagon" there has to be a "sedan" equivalent. There are multiple goods carrying variants of the Defender but no sedan.

If the cargo capacity of the defender station wagon with the seats folded were compared with a Commodore station wagon I'm sure the Defender would win out. That will make the Rule 179 absurd.

However in the mean time I'm just going to have to pay the fine and not listen to the experts here again.

[Bigbjorn]

Station wagons can park in loading zones in Sinny? Not so in Brisbane. Here loading zones are for commercial vehicles and wagons are not classed this way. I got a ticket cancelled that was issued for parking my County in a loading zone at Wooloongabba. I tried to tell the parking nark that it is complianced as a "motor omnibus" "10 seats" and offered to pop the bonnet and show him. Waste of breath. I took the ticket to City Hall with a photo of the compliance plate and copy of the rego certificate and it was reluctantly cancelled, the council officer offering the remark that I was stretching the rules. "A bus is a commercial vehicle" replied I. I parked in a loading zone outside the City Council Admin Centre to do this.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

<snip> "A bus is a commercial vehicle" replied I. I parked in a loading zone outside the City Council Admin Centre to do this.So too is a panel van with or without, seats or windows, a commercial vehicle.

[Bigbjorn]

The County is complianced as a bus, but reading your Rule 179, we come up with a couple of anomalies.

1- It is not used for fare paying passengers.
2- It is a station wagon clearly by appearance if not registration. There is no sedan equivalent
3- It is designed so the seats may be folded or removed for carriage of goods.

This third is the case when the ticket was issued at Wooloongabba. It was in front seats only mode.

So I wonder about my position if I use a loading zone when in the cornstalk state.

Can you get your rego. changed to station wagon?

[Bigbjorn]

Which one of you'se lot that advised me I can legally park is going to pay the fine!

Best of British luck in collecting. I do know some members of Motor Cycle Social Clubs that do debt collections but $141 is not sufficient to entice them to offer their services. They have charged me 25% in the past. Minimum is usually a $2000 debt.

They have been remarkably effective on the few occasions I have engaged their services.

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Best of British luck in collecting. I do know some members of Motor Cycle Social Clubs that do debt collections
<snip>Great. There's a fellow down the road.

JOQ Is a Lambretta considered a motor cycle or a motor scooter?

[Bigbjorn]

Great. There's a fellow down the road.

JOQ Is a Lambretta considered a motor cycle or a motor scooter?

Well, here they can be ridden on a car licence if they are under 50cc. I had a 1955 Ariel Pixie for a while that looked like a little and slightly eccentric motor cycle (leg over, not step through), 49.8 cc. Always good for being pulled over by a half-smart copper. Passed the definition, though.

Horrible little thing really. I used it to go to the local shops. A four stroke single, no performance. I weighed 120kgs at that time and it did not like hills with me and some shopping on board.

[Bigbjorn]

Panel van, by the way is an abbreviation of an old coachbuilders description of their bodywork. "Panel side van" as opposed to "Window side van".

[gps-au]

Station wagons can park in loading zones in Sinny? Not so in Brisbane. Here loading zones are for commercial vehicles and wagons are not classed this way. I got a ticket cancelled that was issued for parking my County in a loading zone at Wooloongabba. I tried to tell the parking nark that it is complianced as a "motor omnibus" "10 seats" and offered to pop the bonnet and show him. Waste of breath. I took the ticket to City Hall with a photo of the compliance plate and copy of the rego certificate and it was reluctantly cancelled, the council officer offering the remark that I was stretching the rules. "A bus is a commercial vehicle" replied I. I parked in a loading zone outside the City Council Admin Centre to do this.

Ah yes,,,, I remember this stuff from my qld reg'd troupie..

Whilst I am in Cairns this trip I am going to check how they would class and register the D3 here.... As its a company vehicle its really no difference which state I register it in, if its classed as a wagon here in Qld... then I could get away with it in NSW :angel: (maybe)

[Lotz-A-Landies]

Best of British luck in collecting. I do know some members of Motor Cycle Social Clubs that do debt collections
<snip>Great. There's a fellow down the road.
JOQ Is a Lambretta considered a motor cycle or a motor scooter?Well, here they can be ridden on a car licence if they are under 50cc. I had a 1955 Ariel Pixie for a while that looked like a little and slightly eccentric motor cycle (leg over, not step through), 49.8 cc. Always good for being pulled over by a half-smart copper. <snip>Ah Ha yes - but does the Lambretta Owner's Social Club do debt collection? :o

[CaverD3]

Ah Ha yes - but does the Lambretta Owner's Social Club do debt collection? :o

This lot would:



https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/08/1275.jpg

I knew a guy who was a motorcycle courier riding a 750 Kawasaki during the week. At the weekends he would get out his scooter and go to Brighton to beat up Rockkers and Bikers. :lol2: