Swivel housing grease... I'm confused!!!

[LandieMan]

Hi all,

I've recently bought a 1996 Defender 130 and I'm just about to change the diff oils and I noticed a couple of official looking stickers on the radiator telling me that grease (with a LandRover part no.) had been fitted to the swivels on both sides.

So, now what do I do...? I'm thinking I just change the front diff oil as usual and ignore the swivel houses but thought I'd better ask the question. I've done a bit of the search on the forum and learnt a little but haven't found a clear answer to this question.

Any and all advice welcomed.

Cheers, LandieMan

[stig0000]

iv never seen such a sticker, i put lsx 90 in mine, same as the diff

[justinc]

Landieman, yes these stickers come in the genuine one shot grease kits. I would still open the filler plug on each swivel and pump in about 100 to 200ml of 80w90 gear oil. This will ensure enough lube as it is impossible to measure the amount of grease left in there. The grease DOES migrate eventually into the front diff, so after a time there is insufficient lube left for CV and swivel brgs etc. To properly 'service' the housings, whether you use new grease or 80w90 you will need to slip off the hub and disc, the stub axle and slide the cv and shaft out. Wipe out the housing and then reassemble. Refill with chosen lubricant. I prefer oil, but the one shot grease works OK, AS LONG AS THERE IS SOME IN THERE!:D

JC

[Blknight.aus]

it means that post about 93/94 the vehcile has had the oil removed from the compartment of the swivel housing and the wheel bearings packed with grease and not running in oil.

the diff itself is unaffected by the change you just change the oil as per normal.


the jury is officially out as to if the ease of maintenance of the CV grease with the grease filled bearings (and the fact that the grease cant easily leak out past the hub seal onto the bearings) is better than the longevity but more maintenance intensive version of having the oil in the swivels and bearings.

[LandieMan]

Thanks for the replies.

I've now changed the oil and both swivel housings took about 200ml of oil. Interestingly the oil that came out of the front diff had a distinctly green look to it which I assume is the grease migrating into the diff from the swivels.

The oil out of the rear diff looked as clean as the new stuff I was putting in.

Thanks again for the advice.

Cheers, LandieMan

[blackapache]

it means that post about 93/94 the vehcile has had the oil removed from the compartment of the swivel housing and the wheel bearings packed with grease and not running in oil.

the diff itself is unaffected by the change you just change the oil as per normal.


the jury is officially out as to if the ease of maintenance of the CV grease with the grease filled bearings (and the fact that the grease cant easily leak out past the hub seal onto the bearings) is better than the longevity but more maintenance intensive version of having the oil in the swivels and bearings.

Blknight Im debating this myself at the moment as its a first for me, i have TF heavy duty drive flanges (from the PO) and I'm about to crack open the swivels and flanges for the first time... correct me if Im wrong but it seems that if the inner hub seal is removed then you have a system where the oil flows all the way out to the end past the bearings and CV's? if so then this would be the easiest option for maintenance yeah? do bearings still need to be repacked at interval or does the oil in hub setup sort all that out? I'm thinking this is the avenue I'll go down. My swivels are in good order from what i can see, i have no leaks, but have developed a grinding in the Front RHS at full lock. So I'm thinking CV joint. hence the reason im diving in. Obviously it might be a lack of lubrication issue but i wont know till i get in there... any thoughts?

[p38arover]

I bought three tubes of Penrite Semi-Fluid Grease to do my Disco 1 but never did it. It was somewhat cheaper than the LR product.

SEMI FLUID GREASE (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products/semi-fluid-grease)

Maybe that was a good thing, they don't show it as suitable for CV joints.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/assets/pis_pdfs/SEMI%20FLUID%20GREASE.pdf

[gromit]

Mine were greased before I purchased it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/882.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Defender%20Tanami/DSCN1621.jpg.html)


I'm guessing the LR fix was to switch to grease rather than fix the problem.
If the seal is OK the oil will stay there. The grease is a lower cost option over replacing the seals.


Colin

[blackapache]

Mine were greased before I purchased it.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/08/882.jpg (http://s1245.photobucket.com/user/cradley/media/Defender%20Tanami/DSCN1621.jpg.html)


I'm guessing the LR fix was to switch to grease rather than fix the problem.
If the seal is OK the oil will stay there. The grease is a lower cost option over replacing the seals.


Colin

yeah i definitely see the merit for a swivel with a slight leak... thats a no brainer..

i aint got no leaks though and the HD flanges are already in situ... would seem unnecessary to run grease in this instance id think.

im gonna dive in tommorrow and do as Justin says and add some 85W90 gear oil and see how i go i think;)

[Homestar]

I run oil in the 101 swivels and grease in the RRC - both are fine but the 101 leaks from the RH swivel - when it stops leaking I know it needs refilling... :D

[blackapache]

I run oil in the 101 swivels and grease I the RRC - both are fine but the 101 leaks from the RH swivel - when it stops leaking I know it needs refilling... :D

thats the kind of logic i can really get behind..:D

[Homestar]

It's actually very lazy logic as the swivel seals on a 101 is very easy - the seals are split so you can put them in from the back in 10 minutes flat...

[mox]

Seems to me that the idea of grease in wheel bearings and swivel housings largely cures possible problem of oil leaks - especially onto brake linings However it can create more expensive ones when grease - which sometimes gets cheesy and hard gets forced out of where it should be lubricating. After seeing another Defender with grease filled swivel housings like mine but higher mileage in a local garage several years ago getting dry chewed out CV joints replaced, I have added some hypoid gear oil to mine three times since. Still no leaks from swivel housing seals. Seems any surplus has leaked - probably into diff, but slower than it has oozed out from seal and gasket.


I also had left rear drive hub run dry and strip itself and axle spline (rusty and fretting) after vehicle had only done about 35,000 km. Got pair of standard axles and hubs from bloke who had replaced his with Maxidrive (now Hytuff) ones. Also bought a set of the hub oil seals. However, have not yet got around to installing these. Note the outer splines are the same as on the other ends of the axles in the diff, which run in oil. Have not heard of them stripping. Seems as long as adequate lubricant in them, outer ones are OK. Simple way of achieving this is to half fill standard plastic hub covers with thick oil and slap them back on. If overdone, maybe surplus oil could leak out grease seal onto brakes if it does not leak into swivel housing on front or diff on back. The oil I have used is very thick Castrol Alpha SP 680 (hypoid) Gear oil have I bought in 20l drum largely for other purposes. Re the hub cover caps: A new set of genuine Land Rover ones I bought recently seemed better than older types. Looks like will hold more oil than older ones as they stick out slightly further. Made of softer material and less prone to leak oil than older ones. Also, appears that older non genuine cheaper ones are false economy. More prone to leaking from going hard and then from splitting.

[The Yak]

I keep my swivels filled with oil. If the seals start leaking I can see the oil leak, and then I know that water can get in....


Up here in the UK our streams and rivers are cold. When a hot gearbox, transfer box or diff is immersed in the cold water the internal air contracts therefore wanting to suck in the water past dodgy seals. This is why axle and gearbox breather tubes are popular up here for serious off roaders.
The same principle applies to swivels...


Bob.
The Yak.

[rick130]

When we are talking Land Rover 'One Shot' grease in the swivels/CV's, for those that haven't seen it, it's an NLGI #00 consistency grease, in other words it looks and acts like a very heavy oil (but it does have a Lithium soap thickener) as well as 3% MoS2, so is grey in colour.

'Normal' wheel bearing grease is an NLGI #2, it's stiff, there realyl is no comparison in consistency.

[rick130]

I bought three tubes of Penrite Semi-Fluid Grease to do my Disco 1 but never did it. It was somewhat cheaper than the LR product.

SEMI FLUID GREASE (http://www.penriteoil.com.au/products.php?id_categ=15&id_subcateg=85&id_products=107)

Maybe that was a good thing, they don't show it as suitable for CV joints.

http://www.penriteoil.com.au/tech_pdfs_new/Grease_brochure.pdf


Ron it might've been OK, it just depends on how well/total amount of EP additives worked.

As I mentioned above the only reason 'One Shot' works OK is that it has 3% moly, which gives boundary layer protection once the hydrodynamic layer has been breached, and CV's can do that easily due to the immense point pressure they exert.

A conventional GL5 gear oil can work in a CV due to the sulphur/phosphorous EP additive package, which becomes activated with heat and pressure in a similar way to what it is designed to do in a hypoid diff, but from my limited understanding of how lubes work, and seeing what greases worked best in extreme CV applications, I like having lots of solid lubricants in there too. The best racing CV lube I've seen and used had a combination of syn (di-ester) and mineral oils and loads of solid lubes including MoS2 (molybdenumdisulphide) graphite and lead !
It wouldn't be legal for sale these days, but ended up in the rear end of most every F1, (turbo era) Indy/Champ Car, and LeMans prototype in the late eighties/early-mid nineties, regardless of who their lube sponsor was !

[PhilipA]

I am talking from experience with my 92RRC.
I filled the swivels with one shot grease and was happy with the result . My left swivel had a small rust mark at the bottom so it stopped the leak.


The swivel grease only fills the swivel about one third.


It is easy to check the level and consistency. Just turn the wheels to lock on the side you are working and stick a zip tie down the filler hole like a dipstick.
To change the grease on an early hub which has a drain while the later ones don't , just fill the hub with ATF and drive around the block to mix. It will then drain out. You are on your own with the later ones. LOL


If you have grease migrating to the diff , you need new seals in the axle flange


Regards Philip A

[rick130]

If you have grease migrating to the diff , you need new seals in the axle flange


Regards Philip A

They'll push the lube through just from heat build up too as the swivel isn't vented.

[scarry]

They'll push the lube through just from heat build up too as the swivel isn't vented.

What you can do is modify the filler plug into a breather,then extend it.

When my brother was living on the Cape,they used to do this to all of them.

[CraigE]

I mix my own semi fluid grease, that way I can thicken or thin out as desired. Not hard to check and I do so when the wheels are off. No leaks using this method.

[Lionel]

Landieman, yes these stickers come in the genuine one shot grease kits. I would still open the filler plug on each swivel and pump in about 100 to 200ml of 80w90 gear oil. This will ensure enough lube as it is impossible to measure the amount of grease left in there. The grease DOES migrate eventually into the front diff, so after a time there is insufficient lube left for CV and swivel brgs etc. To properly 'service' the housings, whether you use new grease or 80w90 you will need to slip off the hub and disc, the stub axle and slide the cv and shaft out. Wipe out the housing and then reassemble. Refill with chosen lubricant. I prefer oil, but the one shot grease works OK, AS LONG AS THERE IS SOME IN THERE!:D

JC

I realise this is an old thread, but I would strongly endorse JC's advice here.

It seems that since the "one-shot" grease packs came into use, dealers don't seem to check the swivel housings for adequate lubrication as part of the service schedule.

I bought my Defender TD5 Xtreme in 2004 as a demonstrator with 1500Kms on it & had it dealer serviced since new.

Recently I checked the swivel housings & discovered that the drivers side was more or less dry of lubricant, but the passenger side was OK.

To cut a long story short, I discovered that the swivel bearings on the driver's side were shot, & replaced them. The bottom bearing was rusted significantly, which made me wonder whether they had ever been lubricated properly. (!)

There had been no significant on road symptoms, apart from a slight lack of steering damping, due to the loose bearings on the drivers side.

While this is an easy job if there are problems, I would strongly urge everyone to check the swivel housings & make sure there is some lubricant in there.

A few squirts of LMM grease & a few mls of diff oil every so often could save a lot of problems!

Cheers,

Lionel

[ThorneGator]

I know this thread has been around a while, but could use an answer on something that I haven't found yet...

Can you over fill the swivels (within reason)? Would it hurt for me to just proactively add some grease/ oil, or can adding too much cause overheating?

[roverrescue]

I know this thread has been around a while, but could use an answer on something that I haven't found yet...

Can you over fill the swivels (within reason)? Would it hurt for me to just proactively add some grease/ oil, or can adding too much cause overheating?

Depending on what you fill it with and the integrity of the inner axle seal
If that seal is leaky (they all are to some extent) and you brim filled both swivels with oil
It would equalise through axle housing and likely push out the breather to some extent

Adding 100mL as JC mentioned on the other hand has a pretty low risk high reward outcome

S

[clive22]

That's what I do too. Mix high pressure moly' grease with hypoid diff oil till its viscous enough
to pump in. I'm pretty sure that what it is anyway.
If I pull the CV's, I repack them with high pressure grease.
Your swivel, will wear quite quickly on corrugated roads.
It the up and down that kill's, not turning the wheel.
The pressure is high and repetitive, and nearly always in the same spot due to the straight ahead position of the wheel.
Looking at the race, leave a neat radial line of indents right there, that match the rollers.
You will find taking a shim or or two out every big trip may be necessary to maintain pre-load.
I always found the steering much nicer with a bit of TLC on these bits, gets nervous real quick with some slack.

Clive