4BE1 Pics

[Dougal]

Anyone got pics of an Isuzu 4BE1?

I'm interested in the inlet manifold mainly, wondering if they made any radical changes there to get the power levels up in a non turbo engine. One of the guys here (might be Andrew E) fitted a different inlet manifold with a bigger intake flange to his 4BD1 a few years back and dropped the EGT's, I suspect this might have been a 4BE1 part.

[jerryd]

I can take a few pics later and post them, providing I get my computer back from the repairers

[jerryd]

Here's a couple of shots, not sure if they are any good though ;)

[Dougal]

Thanks Jerry, they're exactly what I wanted to see.

Basically the 4BE1 is at least 10% better at processing air than a non turbo 4BD1. I think this change is mostly due to the intake manifold design. I wasn't sure if the 4BE1 used that particular manifold, but your pics confirm it does.

Might be a cheap and easy 10% gain for the rest of us. I think there should be some mpg's hidden in there too.

[jerryd]

Glad they are of some help, maybe that's why the 4BE1 goes so well then :D With this colder weather we are getting mine seems to be flying along and I actually hit 120 :wasntme: the other day.

Of course it could just be a new air filter and an oil change that's done it. I still keep pondering "Turbo" or "Two Stroke" as I'm still waiting on the rotec design to finalise and see if it's compatible for the engine bay ;)

[Dougal]

Glad they are of some help, maybe that's why the 4BE1 goes so well then :D With this colder weather we are getting mine seems to be flying along and I actually hit 120 :wasntme: the other day.

Of course it could just be a new air filter and an oil change that's done it. I still keep pondering "Turbo" or "Two Stroke" as I'm still waiting on the rotec design to finalise and see if it's compatible for the engine bay ;)

That's an easy call, they already make turbos.
Does your engine have a rotary or inline pump? I thought they were all rotary, but there's one for sale in NZ which supposedly has an inline pump.

[rick130]

That's an easy call, they already make turbos.
Does your engine have a rotary or inline pump? I thought they were all rotary, but there's one for sale in NZ which supposedly has an inline pump.

Looks like a rotary in that last pic Dougal.

[garryseries3]

Thanks Jerry, they're exactly what I wanted to see.

I wasn't sure if the 4BE1 used that particular manifold, but your pics confirm it does.

Dougal just a quick note my 1990 4BD1 has that same manifold with the offset in the middle section to split the air. I think you find it was a later modification on 4BD1 motors.
Garry

[Bearman]

Dougal just a quick note my 1990 4BD1 has that same manifold with the offset in the middle section to split the air. I think you find it was a later modification on 4BD1 motors.
Garry

The injector lines are different too on the later 4BD1's with this manifold, so you will need them if you install it.

[Dougal]

Dougal just a quick note my 1990 4BD1 has that same manifold with the offset in the middle section to split the air. I think you find it was a later modification on 4BD1 motors.
Garry

That's interesting. I haven't personally seen a 4BD1T later than about 88, there are pics of many US engines on 4btswaps (used until 94 I believe) and they all seem to have the same manifold I have.
Do you know what market your engine was originally sold into?

Regarding the injector lines, there's a thread on here somewhere (just been searching, can't find it) of Andrew E (there are a lot of variations on that username) doing the manifold swap on his 4BD1T to that 4BE style. If injector lines needed done there should be mention of it.

[garryseries3]

That's interesting. I haven't personally seen a 4BD1T later than about 88, there are pics of many US engines on 4btswaps (used until 94 I believe) and they all seem to have the same manifold I have.
Do you know what market your engine was originally sold into?

Regarding the injector lines, there's a thread on here somewhere (just been searching, can't find it) of Andrew E (there are a lot of variations on that username) doing the manifold swap on his 4BD1T to that 4BE style. If injector lines needed done there should be mention of it.

My motor was apparently from a 1990 NPR 300 that had rusted out bought it in Canberra there is pictures of it on my thread Tales of two motors.
Garry

[Dougal]

My motor was apparently from a 1990 NPR 300 that had rusted out bought it in Canberra there is pictures of it on my thread Tales of two motors.
Garry

Ah I see now. Yours was a non turbo NPR 4BD1?
I found the thread but the pics are a bit small to make out the details.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/103234-tale-two-engines.html

But I remember the truckasaurus story.:D

[Dougal]

The mystery deepens.
Jerry can you take a look at the pic in this auction? It looks nothing like yours.
Isuzu Inlet Manifold Elf NKR Diesel for sale - TradeMe.co.nz - New Zealand (http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=304395934&permanent=0)

[jerryd]

I'll have a good look at mine in daylight and compare the two ;)

[Dougal]

Right, I knew this scroll type manifold rang a bell. Isuzurover has one in this thread here:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/63176-budget-4bd1-turbo-install-10.html#post1002748

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Anyone want to make the call on whether it'll fit or not? I'm also wondering how many psi it takes to pop one of those frost plugs out.

[steveG]

They dont look to have enough depth to be a normal welch plug, so I'm guessing they are just a slightly domed disk, and may even be swaged in slightly.
In which case I'd guess the PSI required to pop them would be more than normal turbo would put out.

Steve

[Dougal]

They dont look to have enough depth to be a normal welch plug, so I'm guessing they are just a slightly domed disk, and may even be swaged in slightly.
In which case I'd guess the PSI required to pop them would be more than normal turbo would put out.

Steve

We will find out. Still not sure how I'm going to get air in this thing. The rear port will be blocked or mostly blocked by the steel mount with the bell-crank and air/oil seperator. The front will be blocked or mostly blocked by the fuel filter and brackets.

Not to mention injectors lines

[oliver1981]

hi dougalm

i replaced once of these on my 4be1 and put a standard 4bd1 on. Did this so I could drop the seat box as it is in a 2b fc.

Very challenging getting cylinder 2 lower bolt in and out....think little hands...

Can not notice the difference in performance to be honest...its slow or slow....

[Dougal]

hi dougalm

i replaced once of these on my 4be1 and put a standard 4bd1 on. Did this so I could drop the seat box as it is in a 2b fc.

Very challenging getting cylinder 2 lower bolt in and out....think little hands...

Can not notice the difference in performance to be honest...its slow or slow....

Good to hear. Do you have a rotary pump 4BE1? The later ones appear to be inline pumps.
Going back to the older manifold you wouldn't notice a performance drop, but you might see some smoke or higher EGT's.

[Dougal]

Raining here so I pulled out that 4BE1 scroll manifold and threw some solidworks at it.

In a nutshell it won't fit a truck motor without some minor mods, it will foul both the fuel filter bracket in the front and the accelerator brackets in the back.

But that's not my concern. I'm passing this one along to someone with a greater need who disposed of those brackets long ago.:angel:


Hey Dr Ben, do you want to run some CFD on these?

[isuzurover]

Raining here so I pulled out that 4BE1 scroll manifold and threw some solidworks at it.

In a nutshell it won't fit a truck motor without some minor mods, it will foul both the fuel filter bracket in the front and the accelerator brackets in the back.

But that's not my concern. I'm passing this one along to someone with a greater need who disposed of those brackets long ago.:angel:


Hey Dr Ben, do you want to run some CFD on these?

I have just chopped the top off mine with a mill so I can insert a laminova inside. They have a special filter bracket. Accelerator brackets???

Happy to run some CFD.

[Dougal]

Truck motors have an accelerator linkage bracket by the back end of the intake manifold, if you've got one it'll foul the end of these manifolds. If you don't have one it's not a problem.

I can't remember if I emailled the old manifold through or not. Do IGES files work?

[garryseries3]

I have just chopped the top off mine with a mill so I can insert a laminova inside. They have a special filter bracket. Accelerator brackets???

Happy to run some CFD.

Any photo on that one interested in the set up as may otheres be.
Garry

[isuzurover]

Do IGES files work?

We need to convert to STL. If you are able to do it that would be preferable (especially if you can check the file is OK.


Garry - will take some pics when I can get hold of a camera.

[Dougal]

STL files are on the way.

[isuzurover]

STL files are on the way.

Also let me know what flow rates and temps you would like run?

[Dougal]

Also let me know what flow rates and temps you would like run?

I reckon two runs.

2000rpm max torque.
15psi gauge.
60C air temp (good intercooler).
90% VE would be around 878 cc/cylinder, 58.53 litres/sec.

3000rpm max power.
Same pressure
Same temp
85% VE would be around 829 cc/cylinder, 82.9 litres/sec.

How do you get on with valve duration etc? Is it possible to set the inlet conditions and let the valve duration and cylinder size set the flow or set the flow and mimic a cylinder and valves?

[Dougal]

So, my 4BE1 manifold has gone to a better home in Texas.

[steveG]

Mmmmm - red. That will make it go faster than Isuzu black :p
Is that a compound turbo setup Dougal?

Steve

[Dougal]

That one goes very fast indeed, the fuel pump is capable of roughly 12 times the stock fuel output (850cc per thousand shots, stock is 70cc/1000). It has had compound turbos fitted, but in the pic that looks like a Holset single turbo. HE351 or something like that I think.

That's Randy, calls himself Carcrafter and he's been on here.

[Bush65]

Sorry for the old thread dredge.

I'm interested in getting my hands on one of these inlet manifolds for my 4BD1T engine.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/isuzurover/LR_PICS/4BD1_Parts017.jpg

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachments/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/36952d1308885778-4be1-pics-carcrafter-isuzu-4be1-manifold.jpg

Seems this is one of at least two styles of inlet manifold that can be found on Isuzu 4BE1 engines.

Does anyone have any more information, perhaps when the change was made to this style, or whether this was only for turbo/intercooled versions, etc.?

Or does anyone know if this manifold was used on any other 4B? engine?

Or does anyone know of any that might be available?

Thanks for any information.

[Dougal]

As I understand it, there are at least two different versions of the 4BE1 (one rotary pump, the other inline) and two different inlet manifolds. But I have no idea if the manifolds directly correspond to each injection type.
None of the 4BE's were turbocharged.

I beleive Jerry on here has a 4BE1 with the other manifold (the larger, split conventional type). I bought mine from a wrecker site unseen. I don't have the truck year or model unfortunately.
Coog (Josh) on 4BTswaps found this VIN: NKR58E-7118823

There was an online Indonesian Isuzu dealer with the parts listings for 4BE1 engines: http://catalog.isuzuastraparts.com/illustration.php'vehicle=n-series&type=ELF
I have a p/n 8-97064 280-1 but I don't know which type. This is 93 onwards.

[isuzurover]

John, the (1st) manifold in your pic above was removed (by me) from a late model NA 4BD1. However beyond that I can't help.

[jakeslouw]

Just a parallel question: I see some have aftermarket extractors / exhaust branches, some don't.

Does a NA diesel benefit from tuned length extractors as much as a petrol engine?

[isuzurover]

Just a parallel question: I see some have aftermarket extractors / exhaust branches, some don't.

Does a NA diesel benefit from tuned length extractors as much as a petrol engine?

I know that my 2.25 went (comparatiively) well with extractors, however I never tried with and without on the same engine.

However an NA diesel will benefit much more from a turbo than extractors.

[jakeslouw]

I know that my 2.25 went (comparatiively) well with extractors, however I never tried with and without on the same engine.

However an NA diesel will benefit much more from a turbo than extractors.

Thanks mate.

I should be getting my Series IIIS this weekend, with a Toyota 2.4 "2L" NA lump in it , and I'll need to start thinking about getting some more ponies out of it.

It's a SOHC at least, but I have no idea if it is DI or IDI. Doesn't seem to ever have had a turbo from factory.

Anyhoo that will be a new thread under the Series III forum.

[isuzurover]

Thanks mate.

I should be getting my Series IIIS this weekend, with a Toyota 2.4 "2L" NA lump in it , and I'll need to start thinking about getting some more ponies out of it.

It's a SOHC at least, but I have no idea if it is DI or IDI. Doesn't seem to ever have had a turbo from factory.

Anyhoo that will be a new thread under the Series III forum.

The toyota 2.4D is common over here. They are IDI, and soot the oil up like crazy (I think factory oil change intervals are 5k km???) but are reasonably reliable. There were a heap of turbo kits available over here.

It would be a good idea to fit a bypass oil filter (or better yet a centrifuge).

[Dougal]

John, the (1st) manifold in your pic above was removed (by me) from a late model NA 4BD1. However beyond that I can't help.

In all the trucks I've checked out, the 4BE1 replaced the NA 4BC2 and 4BD1, so there were no late model truck 4BD1's, only 4BE's and 4BD1T's. The breathing mods gave the 4BE1 significantly higher power for it's displacement (74kw in 98 http://www.isuzu.co.nz/media/1914/NKR300S%20CVO166%20Sep%2098.pdf 81kw for 88 4BD1 http://www.isuzu.co.nz/media/1926/NPR%2059PX%20V1663%20Jan%2088.pdf )

But what was that 4BD1 out of? Industrial may have kept using them. I know marine had a NA 4BD1 and never used the 4BE.

[jakeslouw]

.............

It would be a good idea to fit a bypass oil filter (or better yet a centrifuge).

Sorry , going seriously OT here and on the verge of a hijack..........

I assume that means a remote oil filter system, or what?

Or a dual filter?

AMSOIL General Use Dual Remote Oil Bypass Unit (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/by-pass/filters-and-mounts/general-use-dual-remote-oil-bypass-unit/?page=%2fstorefront%2fbf.aspx)

[Dougal]

The toyota 2L-T's are notorious head-crackers. Like the toyota 1HZ they run very rich in non turbo form and require a lot of boost to first bring the A/F ratio up to a decent level and then keep the EGT down.

You need to add about 8psi boost and baseline EGT before you add boost and fuel. But then you need to be wary of the engines mechanical limits too. A vehicle certifier here told me that 3L's wear out their cranks when turbocharged (not nitrided). 2L's may suffer the same problem.

[jakeslouw]

I really hope that the engine I'm getting is a 2LT that has had the turbo removed.

If I get the fuel down to an acceptable level by tweaking the pump? I assume then it becomes even slower?

Maybe I should just look at sourcing a different engine at some stage and sell the 2L.

[isuzurover]

Sorry , going seriously OT here and on the verge of a hijack..........

I assume that means a remote oil filter system, or what?

Or a dual filter?

AMSOIL General Use Dual Remote Oil Bypass Unit (http://www.amsoil.com/shop/by-product/filters-and-by-pass-systems/by-pass/filters-and-mounts/general-use-dual-remote-oil-bypass-unit/?page=%2fstorefront%2fbf.aspx)

Yes. The MANN+HUMMEL bypass centrifuge is probably the best option, but not cheap.

[Offender90]

John,

I recall Soltoggio Bros (http://www.soltoggiobros.com.au/) in Perth had several of those inlet manifolds in their parts bins several years back - might be worth checking if they have any left.

Ask them to check the parts bins specifically, as they usually don't know what they have in them.

HTH

Bojan

[SheldonA]

Sorry for the old thread dredge.

I'm interested in getting my hands on one of these inlet manifolds for my 4BD1T engine.

<SNIP>

Or does anyone know of any that might be available?

Thanks for any information.

John, the truck wrecker on the north side of Gympie had one last time I was there.

His number is (07) 5483 8233