Winch Recovery - No Trees

[101RRS]

On a recent trip out in the desert I was thinking out winch recoveries where there are no decent trees etc for winching. I have 65m of cable plus winch extension straps so anm probably better fitted out than most winches but where I was winch points would be difficult to find if I was bogged in bad conditions and you were by myself.

Yes I know to dig and jack but what if you have to winch? What would you use as an anchor. Digging a hole and burying the spare is an option but in reality would be very difficult in most terrain except sand. What about ground anchors? Anyone use and carry them - are they worth carrying?

Other options??

Also - as recovery equipment/techniques/experiences is important to 4wding, is it worthwhile asking Incisor to create a section specifically dedicated to the topic?

Cheers

Garry

[Bearman]

Several star pickets driven into the ground in a row (at an angle away from you) then attach a rope/chain to them all at the bottom and to your winch cable. This is probably the lightest way.

[Basil135]

Several star pickets driven into the ground in a row (at an angle away from you) then attach a rope/chain to them all at the bottom and to your winch cable. This is probably the lightest way.

Have used this for many things where a good anchor is needed.

Just use the 3 - 2 - 1 method, pickets at about a 45 degree angle and you are set.

Make sure you have enough rope with you, and lash the first set to the one behind it, then repeat with the second set.

In the olden days, we lashed them together with 12mm sisal, and they would take the weight of a flying fox.

[mike_ie]

A technique that I used to use quite often in mountain rescue scenarios, and I haven't seen anywhere else, is the use of "hedgehogs", and I haven't seen them anywhere else on my travels. Effectively thy are two (or more) lengths of 50x50mm angle, with alternating holes drilled down each face, and a shackle bolted to the end. the idea was that you would lay two or more of these down flat on the ground, apex of the angle iron pointing up, and the shackle pointing towards your load. Then you'd drive foot long steel pins through the holes at each side of the angle iron, into the ground. Once both hedgehogs had been planted, you had two anchor points for your load.

Setup took five minutes, tear down took about the same, and these things were absolutely infallible in any terrain -bog, sand, loam, you name it. To give you an idea of how much I trust these things, we used to set these up at the top of a cliff, abseil two stretcher bearers, a stretcher, a first aider, and tie in and rescue a casualty halfway down a cliff, all off the same anchor points. And they were light enough that we'd carry them on our backs up the mountain and down again. As a test, we planted one in the ground one day, tied both rescue vehicles to it, and tried to pull it up. We failed.

I hope the description is enough to go on, as I Can't find an image on google, but I'll be making up a set pretty soon for my own trip, and I'll draw up a diagram.

[kaa45]

The Hedgehogs idea sounds great. Would love to see a set.

A section for recovery ideas and stories is a great idea, Garry.

Cheers,
Danny

[sschmez]

Variation on the "hedgehog" idea :

"proper" tentpegs through the links in a dragchain.

Stevo

[Basil135]

The Hedgehogs idea sounds great. Would love to see a set.

A section for recovery ideas and stories is a great idea, Garry.

Cheers,
Danny

Ditto

[chazza]

I use the 3:2:1 star picket method (has a load capacity of approx. 2100kg) frequently in the SES and I have also copied and made a picket-puller that can be used with a high-lift jack to get the blasted things out of the ground. :D

The hedgehog is a good anchor as well but how do you lift the pegs out afterwards?

Cheers Charlie

[windsock]

I found the problem with star pickets (or what we call waratahs over here) is that they bend, and you have to pull them out afterwards with something. Been there done that... had to be a better material...

I made up six 20mm mild steel round rods approx 500mm long and welded an eyelet to them 50mm from an end. This welded lug point gives a lifting point when finished and also a point to attach a chain via a 750kg rated shackle.

In a post above about the hedgehog idea is fine until you strike a rocky/gravelly river bed, or any alluvial based soil type with rocks present. If you have predefined holes to drive the steel stakes through, there is a big chance of striking a rock and not getting depth. I use the stakes individually so I can move them about enough till I can find a place for each (roughly in a line with the pull) to be hammered into the riverbed and then chain them all together and winch off the chain. This method works well as any bend left in the rods can be sledge hammered out later. Con of all this is they are heavy to carry around but in a riverbed there is no chance of digging, most conventional soft-earth anchors are useless, and many of the trees on the banks are either too far away or in soft bank material and likely to pull out with a heavy winch load.

I have also used them to stand a wheel on that I have hi-lifted out of a hole. Two or three rods under a wheel and the remainder laid across the end of the hole you're driving out onf forms a sort of bridge where in the past you'd have used driftwood or forest debris. Works well, again any bends arehammered out later.

I've used the same six rods many times for such duties no worries.

[mox]

Variation on the "hedgehog" idea :

"proper" tentpegs through the links in a dragchain.

Stevo

Good to have strong tentpegs for these ideas. I have some better than bought ones. Made from broken tines off finger wheel hayrakes. These inevitably eventually break due to metal fatigue on the bend just out of the supporting ring and many of the remaining bits just become steel scrap when tine is replaced.

They can be cut /ground off to remove the rest of this bend and possibly sharpened. Are 6.5mm high tensile steel that hacksaw will not cut and good length for tentpegs. Also the other end that clamps into the rake wheel hub is bent like a typical tentpeg.

[101RRS]

Thanks for the ideas.

The 3,2,1 Star Picket version - with a load capacity of only 2100kg - is that enough for a heavily bogged heavy full sized 4wd - do you just pull the pickets out of the ground.

Same comment on the hedghog - will it actually hold?

No one has mentioned ground anchors - anyone actually used them?

Cheers

Garry

[mike_ie]

The hedgehog is a good anchor as well but how do you lift the pegs out afterwards?

We used to tap them back out with the same small lumphammer we hammered them in with. If there was a stuck peg, we'd lever it out with another peg. We never had any problems.


In a post above about the hedgehog idea is fine until you strike a rocky/gravelly river bed, or any alluvial based soil type with rocks present. If you have predefined holes to drive the steel stakes through, there is a big chance of striking a rock and not getting depth.

Considering we used them in limestone mountains, we rarely ran into such problems. The holes in the hedgehog were big enough that you had a certain amount of wiggle room and could angle the peg off in different directions if you did strike a rock. And there were enough holes in the hedgehog that you could easily afford to miss a few. I agree that they aren't suitable to 100% of situations, but I'd be confident that they'd get you out of trouble 90% of the time. Again I'm referring back to climbing techniques here, but if the ground were hard enough that I couldn't get an ground anchor in, then I'd probably be looking for a rock to get a sling around, or a crack in the rock to get a chock into and anchor off of that. I'm not claiming any massive 4x4 experience here, you aussies are the experts at that :D I'm just looking at the problem from a different point of view. I do like your stake idea though, I guess it's all the same principle really - distribution of load. On a slightly different topic, we had to do many courses on this kind of stuff many moons ago, and there is an optimum angle between your anchor points, which if exceeded, significantly decreases the effectiveness of the anchor point, and increases the chance of it getting ripped out (and in the case of winching out a truck, getting planted through your windscreen). I'll see if I can get the material emailed to me - it makes for an interesting read.


the hedgehog - will it actually hold?

I would, and have done in the past, bet my life on it.


No one has mentioned ground anchors - anyone actually used them?

I've never used these, but they look very similar to what we use in snow rescue - we call them dead man anchors (http://content.backcountry.com/images/items/medium/DMM/DMM0013/DMCLR.jpg). The key is getting the correct angle on them - too shallow and they pull out, too steep and they rip the ground up like a plough. Get them in at 45 degrees and you have a rock solid anchor to work from.

[Hymie]

Do a google search under "Ground Anchor Plates"

[spudboy]

I saw a demo of this:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/09/1603.jpg

At a boat show, and was very impressed. It's called a SARCA ground anchor.

Super SARCA Anchor - anchorright.com.au (http://www.anchorright.com.au/products/sarca-anchors)

There was a good video on how it works, and how it is better than normal ground anchors, but I can't find it yet.

[101RRS]

Do a google search under "Ground Anchor Plates"

Did that - some companies selling them but virtually nothing on experiences on how well they work or do not work.

Garry

[spudboy]

This gets good reports from people in the UK who do winch comps:

X-eng High Performance Off-Road Engineering (http://www.x-eng.co.uk/X-Anchor.asp?MID=60)

[Blknight.aus]

what you're calling a hedgehog I call a herring spine and when its pegged in its a herring bone anchor.

each link of 4 pegs (on the ones I get hold of) is rated to 250kg in softish sand and 500KG in medium clay and up to 1000KG in hard clay, its an operator experience how you call the ground, with a suitable jackhammer you can drive the buggers into roads and concrete slabs if you need to. (never had to and I dont want it back if I do) the pegs are about 18 inches long.

they work well but are not (IMHO) as versitile as a set of star pickets and a good roll of fencing wire to windlass it all together with.

I dont rate those ground plough anchors for anything but sand/light clay work Ive seen a couple of instances where they've bumped into something and "bounced" free while under tension.

[abaddonxi]

It's been a long while since this one has come up.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/43641-ground-anchors.html

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/general-chat/33861-sand-ground-anchor.html

[Hymie]

what you're calling a hedgehog I call a herring spine and when its pegged in its a herring bone anchor.


What we used to call a Ground Anchor or Earth Anchor Holdfast to a reccce mech

[Blknight.aus]

yeah, but from memory the ADF ones have the 6 hole configuration and a higher load holding per anchor. The old bloke who lends me his when I'm going to play anchor man insists they are herring bone anchors (the pegs angle much like when you do a herringbone halt in convoy) and the name sort of stuck for me... (especially when I want to borrow them)

Ive got a rough knock of up of one done in 6mm plate drillled to take the old 113 track pins. If a set of the ones from a wrecker were to fall off the side of the truck..............

[windsock]

...4x4 experience here, you aussies are the experts at that :D

Hiya Mike,

Yep, there are many variations on the same concept and the one I use the most is one that works where I temporarily stop the most, alluvial environments... :D

I'd settle for antipodeans, I'm a Kiwi but pleased enough to be living beside a bunch of Aussies... ...in New Zealand... ;) ... land of long mud roads... :angel:

I forgot to mention I have four 800mm long screw in sand anchors commonly used to take the weight of stays on radio and met towers for in sandy or soft soil conditions.

Cheers,

Phil

[Tusker]

Great thread, some good ideas here.

On an outback trip, space & weight are at a premium. Best if anything carried has two or more uses. The dragchain & pegs idea fits the bill if it works.

Hmmm... I can foresee some testing on Stockton Beach soon..

Regards
Max P

[mike_ie]

Hiya Mike,

Yep, there are many variations on the same concept and the one I use the most is one that works where I temporarily stop the most, alluvial environments... :D

I'd settle for antipodeans, I'm a Kiwi but pleased enough to be living beside a bunch of Aussies... ...in New Zealand... ;) ... land of long mud roads... :angel:


Australia, New Zealand - there's a difference? :p

May have to get you to guide me down some of these tracks when I'm over there after Christmas... :angel:

[101RRS]

Thanks for the great ideas - especially the links - would seem that store bought ground anchors are a bit of a waste and the home made methods are better.

As some of the issues seem to be the weight and space to carry extra gear I was thinking what else could be used other than the spare wheel - what about a high lift jack laid in its side in a trench with the winch cable connected to the lifting tongue and large pegs hammered through holes the in main bar of the jack. The jack would be supported by the dirt around the trench and the stakes.

I guess that the old method of dig and jack your car and fill the hole under the wheel/s is the best way to get unstuck if no there is no snatch available or anchor point to winch. I am just getting too old and too unfit to do much digging these days.

Cheers

Garry

[malsgoing130]

Hi,
Ive used the old spare wheel burried in the sand trick, dig a large hole, lay the spare in flat and attach winch cable and rebury the whole lot) its hard work and "usually" works. I also used to manufacture the Pull Pal under licence in South Africa, i think they were the first folding groud anchor, they were brilliant but expensive to manufacture (special grade steel on the blade and attaching points therefore expensive to sell. They were brilliant in all terrain though. there are alot of "copies" around now though. we also had the patent on a combo hi lift jack and anchore but in severe testing the hi lift shafts could bend killing 2 tools.

The other methods are cheap and effictive but you must be prepared for some hard work especially in sand.
Cheers
Mal

[mike_ie]

As some of the issues seem to be the weight and space to carry extra gear I was thinking what else could be used other than the spare wheel - what about a high lift jack laid in its side in a trench with the winch cable connected to the lifting tongue and large pegs hammered through holes the in main bar of the jack. The jack would be supported by the dirt around the trench and the stakes.

Hmm, dunno about you, but my hi-lift jack is a pain in the ass to operate once dirt gets into the mechanism, just from being bolted to the roofrack, to the point where there is a can of WD-40 in the toolbox specifically to wash it down before use. I figure that burying it in the sand wold render it useless pretty quickly, even if you do wash it down once you get home. And again, it comes down to distribution of force - the hedgehogs work because there are two or more of them, each loaded off in different directions. I'd imagine that loading the hi-lift straight down its central axis would run the risk of it pulling straight out, same as a single hedgehog would. Not to mention the possibility of bending the jack, rendering your last line of defense in terms of recovery, useless.


[quote]I guess that the old method of dig and jack your car and fill the hole under the wheel/s is the best way to get unstuck if no there is no snatch available or anchor point to winch. I am just getting too old and too unfit to do much digging these days.No such thing as too old mate, it just means you're getting smart enough to not want so spend the day digging holes ;) How about doing your off-roading with a mate with a similarly sized vehicle? I hear that Defenders make great anchor points for pulling things like Landcruisers and Pajero's out of trouble.... :angel:

[drifter]

I am trying to think of where I recently saw a link...

Basically it was a piece of flat steel with a shackle ring on one end and a series of holes down each edge - the holes were spaced in a zig-zag fashion.

The rods used to secure it to the ground were hexagonal and the reason for this was that, when finished hauling yourself out of trouble, you used a spanner to rotate the rods - turning the hole they were in into a round hole and making it easier to extract the rods.

I wish I could think of where I saw it...

I carry a set of MAXTRAX (https://www.maxtrax.com.au/) in the roofpod of the D2 (they are too long to fit sideways in the back) which I purchased for Stockton Beach - never got to use them but they are still in there.

[chazza]

The 3,2,1 Star Picket version - with a load capacity of only 2100kg - is that enough for a heavily bogged heavy full sized 4wd - do you just pull the pickets out of the ground.

Garry

G'day Garry,
Recently at training we set up a 3:2:1 holdfast and connected to the Land Loser with a Tirfor winch in a single line pull. I chocked all four wheels with bricks and put it in low range reverse, with the handbrake on and we were able to drag it across a coarse bitumen surface. The holdfast never even looked like moving.

I should have mentioned before, that the pickets are 1200mm long and are driven 2/3 of their length into the ground. We use 16mm sisal rope for non-life recovery and 11mm synthetic for life-support when we lash the pickets together. The vee-face of the pickets must face the load being supported/recovered and the three groups of pickets must be in a straight line, otherwise the holdfast will not support as much and may fail.

Naturally the load the holdfast will support varies with the soil type and condition but 2100kg is an estimated safe working load (SWL),

Cheers Charlie

[mike_ie]

G'day Garry,
Recently at training we set up a 3:2:1 holdfast and connected to the Land Loser with a Tirfor winch in a single line pull.

Chazza, I don't suppose you have any pictures of the 3:2:1 setup that you use? I have a fair mental picture of what you are describing, I haven't seen one in action, and I wouldn't mind getting a look....

[RecMec]

The old holdfasts and pins were rated to pull a nominal 4 ton, same as a single line pull on the front winch of a Diamond T. Heavy stuff to cart around and hard work removing the pins once the task was finished. Only problem with home made stuff such as equal angle is the strength of the steel if the casualty suddenly shifts during the pull.

[chazza]

Chazza, I don't suppose you have any pictures of the 3:2:1 setup that you use? I have a fair mental picture of what you are describing, I haven't seen one in action, and I wouldn't mind getting a look....

The only drawing I have Mike is a poor one and subject to copyright, so it wouldn't be much use to post it.

RELEVANT POINTS IN CONSTRUCTING A PICKET HOLDFAST
1. Three star pickets are driven into the ground as close as possible to each other (touching) at an angle of about 45deg. pointing away from the car. The vee-face of the pickets faces the car, so as to maximise the grip in the soil i.e. harder to pull through the ground. The pickets must be at least 1200mm long and buried for 2/3 of their length.
2. About 1m away and directly in line with the direction of pull, two pickets are driven in and the same process is repeated for the last picket. All must slope away from the car and be perfectly in line.
3. A 16mm sisal rope 12m long (in perfect condition) is then tied near to the top of the group of 3 pickets with a clove hitch (we protect the rope from the pickets by wrapping a sandbag around the pickets first). The rope is then passed down to the base of the group of 2 pickets (suitably protected) and returned back to the top of the group of 3. This is repeated until four turns have been completed; an assistant is handy here to keep the turns tight and stop them falling out of place.
4. When the four turns have been done, the excess rope is wound round-and-round (frapping) the turns from the top of the group of 3; the assistant is invaluable for making the frapping quick and easy. The frapping is tied-off with a clove hitch about the turns.
5. The process is repeated with another rope from the group of 2, down to the single picket.
6. The chain or recovery strap is attached to the base of the group of 3 pickets. When the load comes on, watch the base of the pickets for any excessive movement and stop winching if they appear to be losing their grip. I have never had one come loose and a cobber of mine told me that he winched a bogged Land Loser out of a salt lake using this type of holdfast!
7. Star pickets are near to impossible to remove without mechanical assistance, so a simple cam-action device that grips the base of each picket works every time with a hi-lift jack.

SAFETY
1. All ropes; shackles and slings etc. must be rated and in good condition. Natural fibre ropes should not feel soft to the touch and should not smell mouldy - if they are don't use them, because if they break someone will die! Similarly synthetic ropes must be rated and protected from heat; chemicals and sharp edges as with a natural fibre rope.
2. Keep bystanders 1 1/2 cable lengths away from the recovery, in case the rope or hardware breaks.

Cheers Charlie

[alien]

Chazza, I don't suppose you have any pictures of the 3:2:1 setup that you use? I have a fair mental picture of what you are describing, I haven't seen one in action, and I wouldn't mind getting a look....

Take a look at this...FIELD-ERECTED HOISTING DEVICES (http://www.tpub.com/steelworker2/70.htm) @ 1/2 way down the page.
In the 4th pic it shows the snatch block on the top of the leading picket, I was taught it should be on the bottom.
I have never built or taught it using the "rake stake", only fraped it as chazza said.
We used hex pickets so you could loosen them with a shifter when done.
Space each group of pickets the same distance they are in the ground.Ie, 2/3 their length.
If you have the angles right the rope should be at right angles to the pickets.

A couple of other ideas on that link too.
6 pickets that aren't used for much else is a lot of dead weight IMHO.
Don't use a Mag. wheel for burying either, they fracture:eek:
I agree that the high lift bar may bend too.

Intersesting thread:)

[chazza]

Take a look at this...FIELD-ERECTED HOISTING DEVICES (http://www.tpub.com/steelworker2/70.htm) @ 1/2 way down the page.
In the 4th pic it shows the snatch block on the top of the leading picket, I was taught it should be on the bottom.


Intersesting thread:)

Well spotted!

Putting the snatch block where they suggest is the worst possible place, because the load is then gaining maximum leverage on the anchor :eek: The load should always be placed as low as possible to the ground.

I don't like their idea of using a Spanish windlass to tighten the ropes either because it puts unnecessary strain on the rope fibre (twisting) and it will pull the pickets together, which is pointless and may loosen the pickets hold in the ground.

As far as the weight of the recovery gear is concerned i don't think 6 pickets and some rope is too much to bear; the heaviest thing will be a sledge hammer and a winch.

My ideal recovery gear would be a: Tirfor; Hi-lift jack; pickets and rope; and recovery kitbag. The pickets could live under a camper trailer, or in a rack behind a roo-bar, or on a roof-rack.

When the ice outside melts, I will go and find my picket puller and post a photo,

Cheers Charlie

[chazza]

Here are the photos of the picket puller I made;

(http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/sprawson/?action=view&current=Picketpuller2.jpg)
[IMG]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/sprawson/Picketpuller2.jpg

The assembled puller - the pointy bit slides over the picket and is dropped as low as it will go, or until it meets the hi-lift jack. If the top of the picket is damaged, the puller can be disassembled and fitted lower down the picket.

(http://s168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/sprawson/?action=view&current=Picketpuller1.jpg)
[IMG]http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u171/sprawson/Picketpuller1.jpg
The component parts - the pin is a 3/4" Bare-co one, as found at agricultural parts dealers; the pointy bit and lifting block are made from 50 x 10 flat bar; on the block the bottom piece of round bar is to stop the jack slipping off and the piece at the front grips on the picket as the block swivels on the pin. This latter part can be ground after welding it on, until it is a sliding fit on the picket but not too loose.

At the SES depot for training we drive the pickets through bitumen and into heavy clay beneath; the jack and puller always get them out again. This tool is also useful on the farm and can be used by 1 person and requires no other machinery :D

[woody]

please be careful with the 3-2-1 picket holdfast according to all the EAM's that have been published they call for the use of "STEEL" pickets not star pickets. The steel pickets they refer to are of 1" diameter and about 5 Foot long and driven in about 2/3 of their lengh.

although star pickets will work they will not have the same safe working load

[windsock]

Australia, New Zealand - there's a difference? :p

May have to get you to guide me down some of these tracks when I'm over there after Christmas... :angel:

Oh aye, the difference is clear once you're here and not there... :D

Send us a PM when your plans are sorted. I am sure we can show you around one or two wee spots and maybe even catch a trout or two while there.

Would you be starting your global Land Rover expedition in NZ or is it a flying visit?

[DeeJay]

There are a few variants.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/467.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/468.jpg

[spudboy]

Chazza - this is going to be one of those dumb questions, but I can't see from your pictures what you use to do the pulling on your picket puller. I can see how the grey "V" bit goes around the picket and can grip it.....

Is there some handle you attach to it somehow to get leverage?

Sorry if I have missed something obvious :(

[chazza]

G'day Spuddie,
A hi-lift jack fits under the piece with the hole in it, when it is installed on the picket. When you jack, the picket is lifted out of the ground,

Cheers Charlie

[mike_ie]

Oh aye, the difference is clear once you're here and not there... :D

Send us a PM when your plans are sorted. I am sure we can show you around one or two wee spots and maybe even catch a trout or two while there.

Would you be starting your global Land Rover expedition in NZ or is it a flying visit?

No, from here on in, where I go, the Land Rover goes, so I'll be getting it shipped to New Zealand. I'll most certainly drop you a line when I'm in the area.

[windsock]

Here are the photos of the picket puller I made;

Very cool piece of kit, thanks for sharing. A nice little wet day project for the welder... :thumbsup: I already have a dedicated waratah (picket) pullar but it takes up much space. I always carry the hi-lift so this little device will save me space and weight. ;)