Series 2A with an OLD 202!

[COFFEY76]

Hi,

So I went for engineering last week but wasnt able to get it all signed off.
was hoping the booster was working well enough but it was JUST not enough.

But while i had my unregistered vehicle permit i thought i would load the old girl up with as much weight as i could find and take it for a drive around the back roads to wear in the springs (new and very hard)

Drove up and few hills and the 202 totally died! would not even attempt to chug along. I know that i would have had a fair bit of weight in the back but i would assume the 202 would have shown a little more spirit..


What should be my first move in order to bring some life back into the old engine??
I was thinking maybe recondition head?
rebuild carby...

but if anyone can suggest anything.

i know its not a land rover general knowledge topic but it is the heart of my land rover.

[d@rk51d3]

Provided you've checked the electricals (plugs, points, leads, dizzy) a compression test would probably be a good start. Take it from there.

Could need a new head gasket, valves, or the head skimming, or even have stuffed valve springs.
Rings could be leaking, or even broken. This could require extensive honing if the cylinders are scored.

[pop058]

Lack of torque would indicated loss of compression to a degree I would have thought.

You could always put a Landy motor back in it :D

[Bigbjorn]

Either in dire need of a proper tune up or it is plain worn out. Too many conversions were done by buying a well used engine from a wrecker or a Trading Post back yarder and just bunged in as is. Rarely were any given a thorough rebuild and some simple modifications to suit them for the radically different application.

[COFFEY76]

Cheers for that, it helps to get an idea of where to head next.

Dont mind pulling it apart really.
ill have to rebuild the carby and ive got a 186 sump with a centre bulge to go onto it to help with any oil starve it might get. so new rings and gaskets will be a start.

Just want to get it on the road first!!!

Dont want to throw too much money at it really. At the end of the day its an old HJ motor on an Old land rover. I dont want to keep up with modern traffic.

Where is the fun in that??!

[Johnno1969]

Lack of torque would indicated loss of compression to a degree I would have thought.

You could always put a Landy motor back in it :D



Yep, spend the money on a Landy motor instead. Getting rid of the Holden six in my IIA was the best thing I have ever done for it.....

[Bunjeel]

A 202 in top condition should make about 90-100kw at around 4400 revs. That's OK but they don't have that much grunt at lower revs. If it doesn't blow smoke (after idling= valve stem seals, constant = rings) and there are no rattles from the middle or knocking from the bottom it should be worth some TLC. If the carby hasn't been modified and the hills are steep it may stall or flood or both. Fuel filter can be a problem also. Once the head's off it should be easier to make a judgment about its worth. Also have a look maybe at the dizzy gear - if it's old nylon, replace it.

cheers

[COFFEY76]

As it is at the moment the engine starts every time (no smoke during start, none during idle) no knocking from low end or middle. The carby needs to be rebuilt (leaks alot) and during the rebuild i plan to adjust the carby for steeper inclines. Im just surprised at the lack of torque the motor has. First step to do compression test then rebuild carby, then see how we go.

The chain accelerator linkage is the first thing to go, only allows for use of 3/5ths of the motor rev range.

The car originally had a rover 6 cylinder motor, which although may be nice to have if i were to keep it original, i havent heard very positive reports about.

A holden 202 that breaks is easier to source parts for than a rover engine is what im thinking.

And as for 4wd capabilities it is posible to adjust a 202 to prevent carby flooding and oil starve.

[Bunjeel]

I'd reckon if the compression's bad there's usually smoke or fouled plugs, but anyway if it runs smooth with no obvious beat and you pull one plug lead out at a time, and the difference is consistent and strong for each cylinder, then that's a good sign. Timing is another possible issue, and some of those motors had adjustable tappets. Work Guides - Holdenpaedia (http://holdenpaedia.oldholden.com/Work_Guides) has some useful info, as well as how to set those pesky adjustable tappets.

Good luck.

[Bren]

I had a 202 on my landy and did about 80000K around Aust. and was a great motor. It had a Holley 320 carby on it and would handle any incline and decline. When I was in Melbourne the motor was lacking compression so I renewed the rings and shaved the head for good measure. Easy to do. Could I also suggest the best thing I did was put some range rover diffs (same a disco) and some Maxi-drive hi tensile axles in and it was great to drive as far as landies are great to drive.
Cheers
Bren

[COFFEY76]

So im planning to recondition the cylinder head and replace valves of the 202 for starters to reduce the blow by. Evident through the chuffing of the engine. (block and rings will be later as its not blowing any smoke at the moment)

Im wondering is sitting on 3000 rpm at 80k's per hour gonna really stress the engine, ive been told that they dont enjoy higher revs for long periods unlike 186 engines...



P.s. How normal is it for high range to pop out during long decents?

And on the very rare occasion 4th will pop out....

Is this just selector forks wearing out?

with future plans of rebuilding the gear box what should my level of concern be? 1-10?

Shhhpanks

[Homestar]

Im wondering is sitting on 3000 rpm at 80k's per hour gonna really stress the engine, ive been told that they dont enjoy higher revs for long periods unlike 186 engines...



P.s. How normal is it for high range to pop out during long decents?

And on the very rare occasion 4th will pop out....



Looks like yours has all the same issues my brothers old 202 powered IIa had. Can't help with the gearbox issues - we just used to live with it. As far as the engine goes, many moons ago I used to work on these on an almost daily basis. 3000rom for long periods will not hurt the engine if it is reasonable nick, just start sucking the juice. Check to make sure the valve train is in good nick, and adjusted correctly. Carby wise I would look at replacing it if it is only the standard single barrel strommy. There are heaps of different ways to go carby wise, from the 2 barrel holley as mentioned, to SU's, or a 2 barrel weber which I have done a few times on road cars with good results, but not sure of these on hills... If you search around, there are a ton of different manifolds available for 202's. If you upgrade the carby, do yourself a favour and do the ignition at the same time. Source an electronic dissy from the 202 blue motor (VC-VH commodore) Also, if you have it apart, and it has a fibre cam gear on it - replace it, as this is one of the most common failures you see on these as the K's get higher. The aftermarket alloy gear is the go, but you may have to drill out the oil supply pin hole a bit, as they have a tendency of being noisey - if you can hear it over the rest of the noise the IIa makes...:D

[COFFEY76]

AHH ha...

Excellent, engine is untouched as far as i know. Dad never looked after it properly, so i would say valves operating since roughly 1971-2 (hq) would be the first thing to change out.

Recently replaced all the gaskets on the carbie and checked for wear, of which there was not very much.

I figured gears popping out was just one of those things...

ok so the revs are not gonna worry a healthy engine tooo much...If it drinks fuel then so be it, ill live.

[UncleHo]

G'day COFFEY76 :)

If that red motor has blowby, then it needs rings,it probably has broken ones in it, that is why it is Chuffing through the breather and oil filler, it was a common problem with Red motors,for what it will cost to reco the red motor I would suggest you get a Landrover 2.25 motor and replace it, it will be much kinder on the gearbox, as Holdens will break them, your torque range (pulling power) will be correct for the gears and diffs, and you should be able to comfortably sit on 85-90 klms. and the fuel usage will be about the same 15/16 mpg, if you are going to use a Holden carby on the 2.25 Landrover motor fit either a 49 or 51 main jet as the Holden main jet is to big for the 2.25, and it just pours petrol down it:( the smaller mains were what went into the Grey motors (138 ci) and the 2.25 is 139ci ;)



cheers

[COFFEY76]

Hmm yet to price repairs that were planned for the 202. So once they are known i will be able to plan any further steps.

It was originally a Rover 6 (altered firewall) so if i were to change the engine i would lean more to replacing with the 2.6 over the 2.25.

What are the odds of finding a 6 cylinder compared with a 4cylinder engine???

and price difference?

Im not against swapping the engines over, im more concerned with avaliability of parts and more local knowledge about a holden motor over a rover motor.

The incorrect gearing for the 202 is already quite annoying.

[Bigbjorn]

G'day COFFEY76 :)

If that red motor has blowby, then it needs rings,it probably has broken ones in it, that is why it is Chuffing through the breather and oil filler, it was a common problem with Red motors,for what it will cost to reco the red motor I would suggest you get a Landrover 2.25 motor and replace it, it will be much kinder on the gearbox, as Holdens will break them, your torque range (pulling power) will be correct for the gears and diffs, and you should be able to comfortably sit on 85-90 klms. and the fuel usage will be about the same 15/16 mpg, if you are going to use a Holden carby on the 2.25 Landrover motor fit either a 49 or 51 main jet as the Holden main jet is to big for the 2.25, and it just pours petrol down it:( the smaller mains were what went into the Grey motors (138 ci) and the 2.25 is 139ci ;)

cheers

Beter to get an adjustable main jet and get the mixture dead right.

[wovenrovings]

If you want a six i would go with the holden as the it is a more reliable engine in some ways.
The landrover six drank fuel like it was going out of fashion. It was nice to drive and low down torque. If worked hard it can burn exhaust valves.
The 2.25 was a far better motor, IMO, as it was dead reliable and torquey. Also it used an amount of fuel appropiate for the power it was making. The 2.25 was 75hp and the 2.6 was 90hp if I remember correctly.
I have had people trying to give unwanted 2.6's in the past to they should be relative cheap to obtain.

[COFFEY76]

So you would choose the 2.25 over the 2.6...

I just seem to imagine the 2.25 struggling for power with loads on the back.

(eg 109 ute full of wood with trailer full of wood on the back?) obviously the 202 in its condition is gonna be VERY average at this task.

Obviously it will be better for matched ratios on 100k roads.

Converting the 202 back to a 2.25 or 2.6 would be relatively easy?
apart from changing the main jet?

[COFFEY76]

Ive read about a "High Ratio Transfer Case" it features in the Four Wheel Drives catalouge No 33, page 20.

It mentions 'Engine RPM reduced 24% for a given Road Speed compared to original'

Would this allow me a bit more RPM for the 202 to crank up the speed?

[UncleHo]

If you are going to stay with a 6cyl motor,out of the Holden,Falcon 250 iron,and the Valiant verticle motor,the Falcon has the best torque for you, the Valiant is the lightest,and has the lower and best located water pump/fan,the Falcon conversion was popular in Victoria for years, but Illegal in QLD as was the Chrysler motor,you could always put a 200TDI in it with or without the Turbo, it will give a lot more power and should match your gearing.


cheers

[Sideroad]

Hey UnkleHo,

I have been considering a 250 crossflow conversion to get more torque then my 186. What do you mean by illegal conversion in qld? I have a 2A 88 that I am pulling the engine/box out of and it has an engineering conversion plate and was rego.d in qld. Was this an old ruling or have the ford conversions in qld slipped through the cracks?


If you are going to stay with a 6cyl motor,out of the Holden,Falcon 250 iron,and the Valiant verticle motor,the Falcon has the best torque for you, the Valiant is the lightest,and has the lower and best located water pump/fan,the Falcon conversion was popular in Victoria for years, but Illegal in QLD as was the Chrysler motor,you could always put a 200TDI in it with or without the Turbo, it will give a lot more power and should match your gearing.


cheers

[Bigbjorn]

If you are going to stay with a 6cyl motor,out of the Holden,Falcon 250 iron,and the Valiant verticle motor,the Falcon has the best torque for you, the Valiant is the lightest,and has the lower and best located water pump/fan,the Falcon conversion was popular in Victoria for years, but Illegal in QLD as was the Chrysler motor,you could always put a 200TDI in it with or without the Turbo, it will give a lot more power and should match your gearing.


cheers

Uncle, the Hemi 265 conversion is by far the best and has been legal in Qld since the mid 80's. First one we did was into a Series III wagon about 1976-78. Not legal then so a damaged Holden block was obtained for the number which was then transferred to the Chrysler by the well known firm of engineers, LTR & NO Punch. Painted Holden Engine Red, 186 decals from Rare Spares and off to the Transport Dept, no worries.

[landrover dave]

Ive read about a "High Ratio Transfer Case" it features in the Four Wheel Drives catalouge No 33, page 20.

It mentions 'Engine RPM reduced 24% for a given Road Speed compared to original'

Would this allow me a bit more RPM for the 202 to crank up the speed?
DONT BUY FROM FOUR WHEEL DRIVES! The place that does the machining is in Qld Bruce Hwy cant remember the name. But his price was $800 at the time, cheaper than four wheel drives.

[UncleHo]

G'day Landrover Dave :)

Would that be British Off Road at Forrest Glen up near Nambour :)



cheers

[COFFEY76]

Would it be a simple conversion to put a 200tdi in the old battler?

*Ill stand up for the 202 though*
The 202 (even in its current state) seems to go alright. Sure its not the torquiest motor in the world, but that is partly to do with its poor health.

It has been attached to the LR gearbox for at least 30 years and everything seems to be working fine. Except for normal wear through age and use. And it has been used extensively on highways and out in the bush.

Ive gone and found a 186 sump and pick up to give it better supply and im aware of the problems with the fuel supply in the stromberg carbie....


:p:D haha guess im just attached to the car the way it is!

[COFFEY76]

Fixed the 'chuffing'! Turned out it was a massive exhaust manifold gasket leak right next to the fire wall...


Engine has already thanked me. It also had the treat of new heavy grade oil, filter HT leads and spark plugs...yummy

[Davo]

Stick with the Holden. I had a 202 in mine that I replaced with a Landie 2.25 in 1996 and I've missed it ever since. I used to be able to start off in 2nd gear just because the 202 had that much more torque. Right now I've got 3.54 diffs in for a Rover V8 conversion I'm trying to finish and the 2.25 can just about move the car, while a Holden would have no trouble. And of course Holden parts are still easy to get.

[COFFEY76]

Yeah i do start off in second gear when it suits.

Im gonna stick with the 202 at least for the time being. I agree with what your saying about cheap and reliable to run and keep running.

If i was going to ever change the motor I think I would change back to the original 6cylinder. Even if everyone thinks that it uses too much fuel and breaks down. Its original??.....

I enjoy the old Kingswood sound.