Advice on rust and rego please?

[greenhornet]

Hi Guys
I am fairly new to the Land Rover badge.
Bought our first Fender in 2008 (Puma).
Since then I have noticed the series vehicles and looked closely at a few at a couple of expos we have been to.
I have found one for sale and I have a couple of questions.
It is 1964 Series IIA (I think)

1. Rust- see attached photos- is this repairable for someone who knows what they are doing? (not me- I would have to have to get this done professionally)? There is also some rust in the front chassis in front of the front spring hanger.
2. If yes, is there a bodyworks in Sydney anyone could recommend?
3. Rego- expires in August. The car checks out ok with REVS and Vehicle History Check by RTA, however the rego papers have a different engine number and chassis number than both of those stamped on the engine and on the plate on the inside firewall of the car. Is this going to be an issue for change over of rego? The current owner has owned the car for 10 years and said he, nor anyone else, had not noticed the numbers did not match up.
Thanks in advance .

[isuzutoo-eh]

Hi Green Hornet,
Land Vehicle Spares is one place in the Sydney region that will undertake repairs on vehicles like that, they do minor repairs all the way to full 'open chequebook' restorations as I understand it.

Does the firewall plate match the chassis number stamped on the left hand rearmost spring hanger?

[d@rk51d3]

From memory, repair plates are available for those rusty areas on the firewall. Cut the old ones out, and weld the new ones in.

The pillars are part# P13Z (firewall door support panel) from Four Wheel Drives (http://www.landrovers.com.au), and will set you back about $150.00 per side. It could be cheaper to just source another firewall later.

As for rego, If it's a landy motor, you should be able to go in and just register an engine change (and give them the right number as the new engine), which will then issue the correct number on the rego. I'm not sure on the rules over there, but a "same for same" engine swap here won't need to be inspected. If it's a Holden motor in there, it could get a bit more tricky.

Have you checked the chassis number on the rear passenger spring hanger, just to cross reference? Maybe someone has switched ID plates? Could also be that somebody wrote off the original vehicle, and just switched the number plates to a similar vehicle.

[greenhornet]

Thanks Guys.
I did not know where else to check for the numbers, so I will ask the seller to do that and report back.
Thanks for the advice re the door pillars and rust repairer too.
The engine is a Land Rover engine and the seller thought it was original.
The vehicle drives well enough for its age.
Asking price is $1500, fair price?

[isuzutoo-eh]

Did you check the rear chassis crossmember for rust too? This is a bad spot for it.
My 2a was around $1650 without rego, it had/has some rust in it but I think it was slightly less than yours has, and mostly in the rear crossmember. So $1500 is probably a reasonable price as long as nothing else substantial rears its uglies. You will pay a little more in buying a Series in suburbia than elsewhere-supply/demand and all that.

[greenhornet]

Thanks, the rear cross member checked out OK- no rust I could see.

[JDNSW]

The number that will be checked for changeover is the one on the chassis, probably more attention paid to that than the engine. Call the RTA to check exactly what is required.

Is the number on the papers very close to the one on the vehicle? I had a problem where the RTA had one digit wrong on my papers, eventually got them to admit it was their error.

John

[greenhornet]

Thanks JDNSW, the numbers on the rego papers are not close to the chassis or engine numbers, so I don't suspect it is a typo or RTA mistake.

Funny thing- My 2005 falcon ute has a bench seat and is plated as a 3 seater, but the rego papers say registered to seat 2- I should get that fixed when I am talking to the RTA if I go ahead with the series purchase. ;)

[greenhornet]

Ok.
Update from the seller.
The number on the rear passenger side hanger is the same as the number stamped on the plate inside the vehicle.
Does this help?
The rego papers still have different numbers to the chassis and engine, but at least the 2 chassis numbers correlate, so probably the original chassis?
Engine could have been swapped out at any time and rego not updated to reflect change, so I guess I am back to:
1. Sorting out the rust and
2. Having a chat with the RTA
What are the chances of a mechanic picking up the number discrepancy when I get a pink slip?
Or is the real issue insurance if there is a need to make a claim?

[d@rk51d3]

Engine number is probably the least of your worries.

Looks like you have one vehicle, being run on another vehicles rego. Could only lead to trouble.

I'd give the rego department a ring, tell them you're looking at purchasing a vehicle, give them the real numbers on the vehicle, (chassis, engine, and possibly number plate) and you may get lucky.

You may be able to purchase it as an unregistered vehicle, fill in the forms and get it entered freshly into the system in your name.

Going to be tricky though.:(

You could also try the local police station. They would have access to all the relevant details, and you might find a sympathetic ear.

[d@rk51d3]

Just as an afterthought,

the vehicle may have been "updated" in it's later life with a VIN. This would possibly be different to the chassis number, and in which case you may still get lucky.

Again, check it out with the rego dept. :cool:

[scrambler]

I think you'll find it's a case of using a set of plates from another vehicle - possibly ten years ago when he bought it. After all, one land rover looks pretty much like another. If the numbers are "nothing like" each other, try entering into CalVIN (Clifton Scientific Text Services, the Netherlands (http://www.clifton.nl/index.html?calvin.html)) to find what type of Land Rover each left the factory as (swb/lwb/ckd/petrol/diesel/RHD/LHD/4cyl/6cyl)

I recall someone saying they had three or more Land Rovers and only one set of plates - provided the vehicle description is fine its rare that the VIN would get checked by the Police. But changing ownership is another matter, and I had two inspections on my series vehicle because of typos/misreading on the safety certificate and on the previous registration.

[greenhornet]

I think I am a bit stuck on this one.
The RTA will not release any info relating to the history of the car (only the current owner is able to request this info)- RTA do have a ‘Request For Information form’, this does require a small fee also and again only the current registered owner can apply.
Common sense tells me not to risk buying the vehicle and hoping for the best.
Unless anyone has any other thoughts, might have to let this one go.

[d@rk51d3]

The only other suggestion one may consider, is to get a set of numeric punches, and "freshen up" the chassis numbers on the spring hanger....:angel::wasntme: :twisted:

[greenhornet]

The Clifton site was useful in that it gave the same description for both VIN’s in the following categories:
Model, Body Type, Wheel Base, Engine, Model Years, Destination and Design.

It is the ‘serial’ component of the VINs that is different and makes the numbers look like they not a close match.

This explains why having different numbers has probably not been picked up previously.
Thanks for the Clifton site reference.

[greenhornet]

The only other suggestion one may consider, is to get a set of numeric punches, and "freshen up" the chassis numbers on the spring hanger....:angel::wasntme: :twisted:

I have considered that this might be an option.:angel:

[scrambler]

Why the concern? The numbers are a match with the compliance plate and the motor looks original. Run the correct chassis number through REVS. If there is no record of it being stolen, buy the vehicle as UNREGISTERED and then register under the correct numbers. Easy. If REVS has anything untoward on it, leave it alone. If the current owner wants to sell it as registered, get him to get a safety certificate (pink slip/ whatever they are down your way) with the correct chassis numbers and then get him to hand in his plates, deduct the refund from the sale price. I wouldn't try to register the vehicle under the existing registered numbers, because you don't know where THAT vehicle is, and when it might reappear to haunt you.

[COFFEY76]

I agree with scrambler.

Either get the current owner to work out the numbers problem or just buy it unregistered and start fresh.

You have matching numbers and an engine that was an optioned engine, even though it may not be the original one they have nothing to argue about.

Thank your lucky stars you've got mismatching numbers to a landy motor and not a holden one or you would be in a whole world of pain...along with me :D

[Bigbjorn]

I had enough trouble with Qld. Transport over an unregistered trailer that had the same serial no. as one already on register. Two different makers, one long defunct, twenty years between dates of manufacture.

My advice, don't touch anything where the numbers don't agree. One day a couple of big bun faced coppers may turn up at your door seeking to take possession of a stolen vehicleand to have a deep and meaningful discussion with you..

[Blknight.aus]

get a revs check done on the chassis number (the one thats the same as on the data plate on the vehicle)

these are the only numbers that really count at the end of the day on a series.

have the existing owner hand in his plates and rego PRIOR to you purchasing

you then purchase the vehicle using the chassis number as the identificaion on the vehicle and continue on to register it from there, That'd be the safest way of doing it.

Providing its got a rover engine or a mod plate to suit the engine thats in it you wont have any problems if the rev check on the chassis # comes back clean.

[greenhornet]

Thanks Blknight.
It is hard to do a ‘proper’ REVs check because of the number miss matches.
REVs requires VIN and engine number (at least), can’t put the VIN in alone.
Have tried to use VIN (stamped) and the engine number (rego papers and actual) and get the following message.
“There are no encumbrances that match the quoted identifiers.
VEHICLE DETAILS MISMATCH WITH RTA.PLEASE CHECK IDENTIFIERS AND/OR CONSIDER
AUVIS INSPECTION TO ENSURE VEHICLE IDENTIFIERS ARE CORRECT.
MISMATCHED IDENTIFIERS:-“

As an update, the seller has agreed to visit the RTA and sort out the problem and purchase a pink slip.
If he is successful, then I should be OK.

[101RRS]

On the basis of the rust in your pics I think the seller will be unlikely to get a pink slip. But you never know your luck.

Garry

[greenhornet]

Thanks for everyones help and advice.
The seller has advised me that he has sold the vehicle to a buyer for parts.
Better luck next time eh....the next search begins.
Cheers
Gav

[digger]

honestly I think that worked out for the better anyway!!

the rust would complicate any ID inspection that may be required to sort the problem out,

the different numbers on rego papers from chassis and engine indicates to me that the rego is attached to the wrong vehicle

anything that looks like interference in any way with a chassis number will find the owner help police to load his vehicle for conveyance and inspection re stolen vehicle...

had someone recently in town near here tidy up engine number are on older holden by a "touch" over with angle grinder- number still readable but vehicle siezed as needed to be examined (acid i BELIEVE) to make sure... so be careful!!


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take your time and now people know you are looking one may turn up quicker than you think! are you in sydney or tas?


good luck with the hunt!

[akelly]

I agree that any engine/chassis number issues need to be avoided. I went through hell's own trouble getting our Triumph Spitfire re-registered in NSW recently (was originally a NSW car, we took it to the NT then back) because the engine number was incorrect on the RTA paperwork - right back to 1985 (thats how many old rego papers I had). Seems like someone did an engine change back then sometime but didn't update the RTA - strangely enough this had not been picked up for over 20 years, including when I took it to the NT and had it registered there - shows how useful the "pink slip" concept is (except to make cash). In the end I was lucky becuase I eventually found a reciept from 1984-ish that showed the purchase of the engine that is currently in the car (with the number recorded on the reciept). Took a fair bit of fancy letter writing and plenty of trips to the RTA to get it all sorted though!

An issue best avoided.

[greenhornet]

Thanks to everyone for all their advice.
I am in Sydney so if anyone knows of one for sale, please let me know.
Cheers