Advice for a noob

[T34]

Greetings all.

I'm thinking of buying a range rover to replace my series SWB 3 ute as I cannot get a baby seat in it, and we are outgrowing our other car at a rapid rate of knots.

I've been doing a bit of research, reading some posts here and elsewhere and have arrived at the conclusion that what I'd really like is about a 1999 model onwards HSE.

I've got about a $15k budget, which from the averts I've been looking at, does not generally seem enough for what I'd like (there are one or two). However, $15k does seem to cover either a HS model of same age, or an older HSE.

Am I dreaming to think I can get a good 1999 up HSE? for this price.
What's the disadvantages of the older model?
What would you do with this budget?

Questions questions - lol. Would appreciate any advice / opinions.

Cheers.

Mick.

[Junosi]

What would you do with this budget?

IMHO I'd buy the best older HSE I could find and spend/save the rest of the money on the usual suspects - airbags, bypass kit, cooling system, fuse block, faultmate maybe etc

About the only thing I'd like on my (older) HSE that newer ones have is four wheel traction control instead of just rear wheel

[PeterH]

Hi T34, I purchased my 2001 HSE for 15k six months ago, it has been fantastic so far.
The guy was going overseas and needed to sell, he wanted more but I talked him down in price.
I have had a Range Rover classic for seven years prior to that and do all my own maintenance, which is where you will save big $$ if you have the time to do it.
The trick is to be ready to buy when a good one comes up for a good price...and they do come up, you just have to be patient and ready to pounce!
Check CarPoint on a regular basis, I have found both my Rangies there.
Of course get it checked over (unless you know what you are doing) and service history is important.
The 2000 model (identifiable with clear indicator lenses) was the update with Thor engine and bosch electrics, I think BMW were running the show then.
Alot of the bugs from the earlier models were worked out by that stage, they are also a bit nicer inside as well, all those reasons made the 2000+ model feel like the right one for me.
They are great to drive, I must warn you, don't take one for a test drive unless you are ready to buy it, they are very addictive!
They have lots of electronics which means complicated systems.
If I were you and considering a Range Rover, I would have read on rangerovers.net and have a look at the P38 section (4.0/4.6), you can see the different model years which will answer alot of your questions, also have a look through the problems and fixes area there, invaluable reading.
At the end of the day you can weigh up all the pros and cons, you might get a few differing opinions here, it really comes down to if it feels right do it! I did alot of research before buying and decided on a 2000 and later P38, like anything you will learn as you go.
The RAVE cd manual is a must, you an pick them up pretty cheap.
This forum is a great help with most issues you may have, chances are someone else has already solved most problems you may encounter.
Good luck with the Rangie hunting, hope this is of some help.

[81stubee]

What junosi said!

Apparently, I have a 97 HSE and it was great from what I can remember. (I haven't driven her since easter.)

If the budget 15K then I would get a pre 99 HSE. Do a search and you will find there is not necessarily anything wrong with them, apart from the very early 95's which had a few design issues, and post 99 would be better but you can only get what you can afford. Remember that whatever you buy, I would allow an extra 2K on repairs in the first 12 months.

Stu

[Keithy P38]

Most people here have summed it up! Buy the Rangie that you can afford! And as mentioned earlier, be ready to pounce at moments notice! I was watching Carsales.com.au for about 2 months before I started enquiring. You can also see how long someone has had theirs online for and use that in your favour!

Don't think that the advertised price is what you have to pay! My 2000 HSE was advertised for $19k at a dealer, I ended up paying $15k! The amount of kilometres on the odometer is also a bargaining point - I got mine at 160 000k's, now has 175 000k's, only real problem i've had so far is a busted hose clamp and a few relays to replace. You will need a few grand in the first year or so to fix up the bugs, but in the end you'll know what's new and what you've got to look forward to replacing!

Cheers
Keithy

[T34]

Thanks for the replies guys.

@Peter - I have had a good look through rangerovers.net, that's where I ended up deciding on a post 1999 model. There is a wealth of good info over there.

I will confess, I prefer the look of the later ('round' headlights / clear repeaters) models, if I had another 5k wouldn't hesitate to go this way. I guess that my main concern is buying towards the apparent lower end of the price range - generally it's sound advice with most cars a good old model is better then a bad new one. That said - I'm under no illusion that any +10 year old car is not going to need at least something done to it.

Biding my time is going to be something forced on me, as there seems to be relatively few for sale here in SA. From this perspective, I will try to hold out until I get lucky with a nice low miles FSH later model (wishful thinking - lol), as I've got at least a few months until it starts to become an absolute necessity to get a bigger car.

One thing I've noticed is that the 4.0ltr (HS) models are a bit more reasonably priced, are there any pro's cons between the 4.0 and the 4.6 models?

Also, how much of an issue is the overheating problem reported?

Mick.

[Junosi]

You can retro-fit the headlights and clear indicators - my old HSE ('95) has the new style lights and indicators care of PO. You can even retro-fit the 'shark' fins vent thingos from the L322 if you like, few kits around for that - I don't like em myself. 4.6 are HSE's and fully optioned - engine, diffs, sunroof etc - HSE is better and Autobiography is best :)


Also, how much of an issue is the overheating problem reported?

Avoid any P38 that has overheated or be prepared to replace/rebuild the engine. To that end it's well worth spending time and money to do all you can to prevent it from happening once you own one

[daljames]

A few weeks ago i bought a '97 Autobiography. 140k klms and logs for just under $10k. Happy with that. I knew it needed work, shocks, some bushes, HEVAC work, paint faded on bonnet and basically a good detail. The basics where all good though. Had an HSE bout 5 years ago. First thing when you go to check it out, get it to operating temp and check the coolant hoses, make sure they arent so tight they feel like theyre about to burst. They arent frightening, not even the GEMS, just a bit of work to keep them happy. Bit like....

[T34]

Thanks for all of the replies, some good insights here.

Thought I might throw a curveball into the ring :D

I noticed a few for sale ads where owners were getting rid of Range Rovers in favour of Discos.

If I said P38 versus Disco 2, what would you say?

(ducks ready to take flack)

TIA

Mick.

[PeterH]

Rangie vs Disco? Well, it's all personal choice really, but speaking from experience, take a Disco for a Drive, then take a Rangie for a drive, you will have your answer!
Rangies really are 'top of the range' so to speak, the Discos still have the same off road ability, just not the same level of refinement or comfort.
A friend of mine had a 2000 model Disco from new, it was really good actually, nice to drive, but he always commented on how much nicer the Rangies are.
Every time he sits in my 2001 HSE he lets out joking a sigh of jealousy.
Personally I think the Rangie wins hands down.
You ARE of course asking this question on the Rangie forum, I bet if you post the same question on the Disco forum you would get a different answer :)

[T34]

You ARE of course asking this question on the Rangie forum, I bet if you post the same question on the Disco forum you would get a different answer :)

Yeah, I didn't want to post there as I don't really want to get talked out of getting a rangie :D

The one minor difference I can see (apart from the obvious lack of extreme luxury), is that some Discos are 7 seaters, which might be a bit useful when it comes to passengers - baby seats take up a lot of room, plus it's good to keep passengers away from the young sprog as he is likely to chew your hand off if you're not looking. Is there an option like this for Rangies? What's people experience with baby seats?

BTW - most tractors have more luxury than my series 3 - so anything will seem like a limo in comparison - LOL

Mick.

[Junosi]

If I said P38 versus Disco 2, what would you say?

I don't think there's really much of a comparison with a Disco 2, if you'd said Disco 3 or 4 then maybe.... I had a '97 Disco 1 (not much difference to a Disco 2) prior to my P38 and they're in a different league - which is why I chose to upgrade. My Disco was a 7 seater initially but I took the two setas out of the boot as they took up too much cargo space back there - but if you 'need' 7 seats then a TD5 is a good choice

Both do the job, but it's how you get there that's different - economy or business class

[T34]

I don't think there's really much of a comparison with a Disco 2, if you'd said Disco 3 or 4 then maybe.... I had a '97 Disco 1 (not much difference to a Disco 2) prior to my P38 and they're in a different league - which is why I chose to upgrade. My Disco was a 7 seater initially but I took the two setas out of the boot as they took up too much cargo space back there - but if you 'need' 7 seats then a TD5 is a good choice

Both do the job, but it's how you get there that's different - economy or business class

Yeah not really sure I need the extra seats - just that they would be handy in certain situations.

But I think you're right - not sure it's worth forfeiting the exuberance for the sake of giving an occasional ride.

Sorry for mentioning the 'D' word - promise it won't happen again :D

Mick.

[daljames]

Business or first class, good analogy!. I've had 2 Disco TD5s. Liked 'em both. Cheaper to run, much cheaper actually. But this time the Land Rover wasnt going to be a daily driver ( and if it was, i'd be LPGing the rangey.. (Maybe that says it all?)). @ things stand out though, especially now ive just put new Boge shocks in the rangey, they're just so much better to ride in and better handling. The other is have a look underneath. Most of the Chassis in a P38 is 4mm, where as a Disco 2 is still based on the original Range Rover classic chassis of about 2.5mm. One drive will convince you (and occasionally break your heart (and wallet...)). If its a daily driver just Gas it though.

[DT-P38]

P38 rear dickie seats are do-able and occasionally on e-bay... from memory Overfinch made some in the UK and some after market manufacturers did some over here too.

They are just not generally as well integrated/set up as the disco factory original ones however they would give you seven seats for those odd times you actually need/use them.

[T34]

P38 rear dickie seats are do-able and occasionally on e-bay... from memory Overfinch made some in the UK and some after market manufacturers did some over here too.

They are just not generally as well integrated/set up as the disco factory original ones however they would give you seven seats for those odd times you actually need/use them.

Cool, I will have a look out.

So now I just need to find a Rangie with
Low K's
FSH
Sat Nav
Dickie Seats

:D

LOL - Tall order me thinks.

[T34]

ok - I found two different types

Here's one from a car for sale at the moment - looks perfect for the vertically challenged.

http://www.tradingpost.com.au/is-bin/intershop.static/WFS/Sensis-TradingPost-Site/Sensis-TradingPost/en_AU/UserImages/IMPEX_IMAGES_NDS/nds_254/D25400458565/Resized/Resized640x480_D25400458565_J.jpg

And here's on currently for sake from triumphroverspares...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/07/420.jpg

I assume that this one folds up into the floor cavity. Just leaves me wondering what normally occupies this space I'm guessing the spare wheel Anyone have any idea if this is the case, and if so, where do you carry the spare wheel?

Cheers.

Mick.

[T34]

lol @ currently for 'sake' - wished it was - more like nearly $1k

[adm333]

Vertically challenged ???? :eek:

What a WOFTAM is that first one ? There is no leg space at all ! and if you consider the angle of the rear window, its totally impractical.

Yes that under floor space is the spare tyre recess. Alternative spare wheel options are not pretty, and you could forget about LPG as you would have eliminated all options for the tank.

Dave

[T34]

Vertically challenged ???? :eek:

What a WOFTAM is that first one ? There is no leg space at all ! and if you consider the angle of the rear window, its totally impractical.
Dave

LOL - had to google that one to find out what it means. I agree - Good for an oompa-loompa, but not much else. Maybe it's Range Rovers idea of a baby seat - A leather upholstered recliner, with a bottle warmer in the arm rest. :D

[T34]

OK. So I've been patiently watching the adverts, and a nice late P38 has come up, in the colour of choice, with low k's and supposedly a FSH too.

I've only had a cursory glance round at it, but it's not 100% on the outside. There's some stress marks on the rear bumper - so it's obviously had a prang of some sort, and whilst generally pretty tidy, is not perfect.

Asking price is $21k. From what I've seen so far with similar cars sold interstate,it seems to be about right, what's everyones thoughts?

Mick.

[PaulP38a]

Buy it, live it, love it. Learn its weaknesses and overcome.

You can fix those irritating faults yourself. Dealers will rip you off.

'nuff said.

Cheers, Paul

[T34]

Cheers Paul.

Looks like from the lack of general response that it's going to be one of those hard decisions - take the risk - or hold out for something better?

I'm going to view it on Friday, and have a good poke about - any advice on specifics to look for?

[Scouse]

OK. So I've been patiently watching the adverts, and a nice late P38 has come up, in the colour of choice, with low k's and supposedly a FSH too.How late is 'late'? I'd say that would be top dollar for a 2002MY.
A few more $$ & you're into LM (Mk III, L322) territory.

The rear bumper takes about 2 minutes to remove if the seller will let you have a look at what's behind it.

[T34]

Scott, I'm not sure of exact year - but I think it's a 2000MY. Most of these I've seen are about $15k, but the prices seem to go up for FSH and low K's. $20k seems about right from what I've seen for sale for a top grade one, but at that price, with the bumper ding, I know that it's definitely no bargain. That said - $20k is what I've seen similar put up for sale at - but not necessarily what they sold for.

It's hard for me to make that judgement call on the value, after all I've only been watching them for a couple of months, and they don't come up for sale too often.

i'm going to go take a look at L322's - never bothered looking before as I thought they were out of my price range. But if they are only a tad more, I might hold out. The longer I wait - the more I can afford.

[Scouse]

Send a PM to Catch-22 on here. He's just been through this process with the later model RR & ended up with a nice V8 2002MY (I think).
Just be careful with these though - while the BMW V8 is a very sweet motor, some of them have problems too.

[T34]

I viewed the P38 on Friday, took it for a spin, and all seems well - turns out it's a one owner car, which was a nice surprise, and the history is a full main dealer service history. It's a 2001 model and has been well looked after and is generally very straight and clean. The worrying rear bumper damage is little more than a parking knock.

All of the things I could remember to check for worked - air suspension, climate control, electric gizmos, and it also drove nice and tight with no creaks rattles or other anomalies.

I also had a bit of a search for L322's, but couldn't find anything below 30k. Most seem to start at about $35k, and trying to find a relatively low miles + FSH pushes it up just that little bit too much $$-wise.

So given the choice between the best of an older model and the shabbiest of a newer model - I've decided to go with the P38. I've bought out of my price range before (back when I was a lot younger and less wise) all I ended up with was a money-pit. Hopefully buying the best P38 I could find will mean that there should be less surprises.

I pick it up in a few weeks, which should give me some time to sort out some later alloys for it, which will be my one indulgence.

So - if anyone wants to buy a '71 SWB Series 3 Ute (otherwise known as the 'rat-rover' ) Mine is now up for sale.

Thanks for everyone who offered advice, no doubt I will be back asking lots more P38 type questions - old cars seem to have a habit of keeping you occupied. :)

Mick.

[wayneg]

I think you have made the right choice, best of the last and by your description it sound worth the money. One owner and full dealer history is hard to find.
A little while ago there was a brand spanking new bumper on e-bay, NSW. If you are thinking of renewal keep your eyes peeled.

Dont forget to post some pics