Why should I buy a Defender 110?

[armandnel]

Hi all,

I'm looking to buy an off road vehicle and need a bit of help. I have a young family of four and we love camping in hard to get places, of which Aus has plenty.

I'v been told to get a Toyota because you can get parts for them almost everywhere. I'v been looking at a Defender 110 for the very simple reason...it's not a Toyota. Why? Everyone drives one and swear it is the only vehicle to go by. They are good, but is that the case with a Defender?

I'd like to go in to the bush but I am concerned if I have a problem that parts will be a problem in remote areas. Any thoughts welcome.

Also the price, I'm not getting the just of it since the prices for second hand 110's differ a fair bit, but I amd looking around the $25k mark and this one caught my eye. LAND ROVER DEFENDER 110 Td5 EXTREME (4x4) - Kedron - QLD - $ 24,999.00 (http://www.tradingpost.com.au/Automotive/Used-Cars/Small-Medium-Family-Prestige-Cars/AdNumber=D564800493944?BackToResult=true&AdOnTop=)

Is this a reasonable price for a vehicle with no service history.

I live in Emerald QLD and the nearest Landy mechanic is in Rocky, and how good he is I don't know.

thanks for any advice

Cheers

Armani

[spudboy]

You've got to spend spend spend on a Toyota to get it to the same level of 'offroadness' that a 110 comes off the factory floor with.

The TD5 (which is what you'll be buying with $25K) has a few known problems: Oil in the loom; loose oil pump bolt (not common) and the fuel reg leaks from the rear of the engine. Otherwise they are very sorted.

Make sure your missus is happy with the level of creature comforts though. They are pretty basic compared to the Jap stuff.

[discoveryseries1]

where to start ( cracks knuckles) 25 k is a good budget. i dont have any thing bad to say about defenders, having said that they are not known for there day to day family use, as a primary vhical eg the cab is smaller than a discovery, my self i would like one but the family side of 4 a discovery is best suted , we have a 2002 discovery td5 ( 5 cylinder diesel 5 speed )

the advantages they have over toyota are mainly a nicer interior and the suspention is smother off road, most yotas have leif springs witch cant flex as well as a coil spring.

i have herd the debate of toyota parts avalibility, how ever i disagree. any car part can be overnight freighted with in australia you have to know who has the parts and call them direct. if your in the desert bobs garrage is the closest repair place after a 4k tow he wont have radiator for a 2003 toyota any way, they just cant all stock evrey thing.

its my opinion that me as the head of my family am responsibul to bring the most likly parts to brake down on any bush trip, eg hoses belts thermostate rescue tape and drive shafts so when im broken i can fix it and move on. i dont think that toyota parts network is enoughf for me to justify owning one.

il step off soap box now, i have just removed my auto to install a manual because im conserned about the computer controlled side of the auto, so when im in the bush i dont have to worry about it, just put it in gear and go. that is one of the bonus sides of defenders is that they are all 5 speeds.

im not sure how hard core you plan to go but consider putting 10k aside for lockers winch and tyres. my d2 has about 16k of extra gear on it, so that may be some of the reasion you are seeing diffrent prices for cars, some of that gear is not visibul unless you know what to look for and get underneath.

dose the missus like the idea of a defender ? if you can talk her into it i would be over the moon for you, but you may find a series 2 diesel discovery is more comfortabul for a daily ride.

let us know how you go.

[PAT303]

I live 700k's from my local dealer and have never had issue's with parts or getting work done.I've had 5 tojo's as work vehicles in the last 12 years and the reliability hasn't been there and the parts can be very hard to get,alot harder than LR's. Pat

[weeds]

when i crossed the simpson desert in my defender i didn't see any toyota dealers sitting between the sand dunes so i figured if any make of 4wd broke down we all would need to be towed to either mt dare or birdsville, once again no toyota dealer in town

there are a number of non dealer land rover specialists that will send parts to anywhere in aus

comfort levels would be the big thing and there are known fixes for any of the major issues

[uninformed]

the only reason to buy anything that isnt an absolute NEED is because you want to! the only people you have to justify and agree with is your imideate family.

Toyota Nissan Landrover all have the + and -

dont belive everything you read or hear.....way to much emotion ego caught up in it. if you like the look, how it feels and it mets the requirments of your vehilce needs....go with it what ever the brand.

cheers,
Serg

[scrambler]

Firstly, it pays never to make assumptions about these vehicles. You need to check it over and then have it checked by a reputable mechanic.

That said, I would say that $25,000 for a 1999 with 190 odd K is slightly high, unless you would definitely spend the money on the accessories.

Defenders (and probably Land Rovers in general) require a little more owner awareness than the average modern sedan. A Defender is a utilitarian vehicle not a 4wd lounge chair, and while comfortable enough has levels of NVH that many would consider unacceptable, and has idiosyncrasies that include leaking footwells and water coming in over the doors.

When you say "family of four" I take it that is the total - not the number of children? Kids LOVE Defenders - the rear seating is elevated and the view forward and sideways is great for them. But getting four of them in is a problem. The "third row", if fitted, faces inwards and is not the most comfortable.

Rear storage is fabulous, especially with a cargo barrier. After all, its a space capable of seating four adults.

People, even sane people, take Defenders everywhere. Unless you plan on going VERY far off the beaten track a stock Extreme Defender (which has traction control and ABS) will get you there and back without trouble.

[armandnel]

is it expensive even for an extreme 110 with ABS and traction control?

Thanks so much for your reply, it helps a lot, and yes, we are 4 in total. The kids would love the higher rear seats.

[spudboy]

Price is a bit high - but not ridiculous, although as you say it does not have a service history. You want to be happy that it has not been overheated, as the head HATES getting hot. In that case it is a bit of a lottery, and you have to go on other indicators like the condition of the rest of the car.

It also says (in the fine print) that it has a limited slip diff. Assume the rear diff? This might mean it was either owned by someone who was an enthusiast, or someone with buckets of cash. Or they might mean the centre diff lock. Be worth finding out, as not many 110's have an LSD.

For that money I'd be thinking you could find one with a full service history, esp as you are up in QLD (I gather) so there are a lot more on the market up that way than down in Adelaide where I'm from.

HTH
David

[frantic]

Here's another mob in Qld that I hear have a good reputation, have a look at their used landies.
British Off Road - The Land Rover spare parts specialists - Home (http://www.britishoffroad.com/default.htm)

When i was searching for my defender they always had what I wanted but 1000k's was a bit far to run up for a trade in so I just waited and found one more local.

P.s to get child anchor points in a defender there are 2 options.
a) Like i have done and get a horizontal bar across behind the seat with 3 points that bolts in just below the window ( about $395) some have even gotten small holes in the cargo barrier to put the straps through OR
b)a vertical L shaped bar bolted to the floor that takes 1 bolt point and eats into your load area.(from memory was quoted $250)

[rijidij]

I think that Defender is a little over priced. I sold my 1999 Defender Xtreme a while ago for $19,000 with 160,000 kms on the clock. I thought I got a pretty fair price for it at the time.

Toyota are very good at marketing. I'm not saying they don't make a good product, but they're good at making their customers believe that they have the 'best', and that isn't necessarily true.

Another option is a late 300Tdi Defender. They're a less technical (no electronics) engine. And a cheaper purchase price would mean $$$ left over to spend on extra goodies.

Murray

[Michael2]

HI Armani,

Parts availability is nothing to be afraid off. If you are travelling to remote areas carry some basic spares & tools (no matter what car you have) and sort out the problem yourself.

If the repair is going to be anything major, then even if you're in a country town with a dealer, they're going to have to freight the item in. I lived in a country town in WA where there was a lot of farming and mining. Toyotas used to crack the diff housing on a regular basis, but the local Toyota dealership, which had workshops, always freighted a housing in for each repair, and never kept any stock. So as long as parts are available in the country, then availability will always be an overnight express freight airbag away.

Land Rover parts are pretty cheap, there are plenty of small suppliers, or you can import from the UK or buy on ebay.

The Defender has less parts, so there's less to break.

If you get a modern car then it's worth investing in a scanner, so you can read faults direct off the ECU. I drive a Tdi, so the only diagnostic tool I need is a multimeter. Either way, get a workshop manual.

I drive a Defender everyday, and I find in comfortable and capable. My wife drives a Range Rover (classic), but finds the Defender comfortable, even after 10 hours of driving. I have three kids in the back, and I can see that the back seats might be a bit cramped when they get older, but for now it's all good. The seating position in the Defender is not plush, but it is ergonomic and supportive. Whilst in many 4WDs you sit like in a car, with your legs out in front of you, in the Defender (and Range Rover and Discovery) you sit more upright. This puts much less strain on your lower back and allows you to drive all day - on my last trip I did 1,250km in a day without ever feeling cramped or sore.

Your family holiday photos will be part of your family's heritage in years to come, and the Defender is by far the most photogenic 4WD you can buy.

It's not usually the car the disappoints, but your expectations. So just be sure of what you expect out of a Defender. It won't disappoint in it's off-road performance, on winding roads it will outperform most sedans, on the open road it cruises well, it's not going to overtake like a Subaru, but I find that if I'm accelerating from 110kph while overtaking a car, I'll get to 120kph as I overtake, which I figure is fast enough for a diesel brick. The things people complain about are water leaks and leg space for the front passenger. There's a water ingress manual available on this website (published by Land Rover) that goes though all the potential leaks and lists the fixes. Leg room on the passenger side is reduced by the underdash A/C, but you can raise the seat rails about an inch, which gives more leg room and allows the seat to go back a bit more. MULGO (site sponsor) make a product to do this, so do MUDSTUFF in the UK, and some people here have made their own.

TD5s had some issues, already alluded to. If I were to buy a TD5, I'd get a later one. The ECU changed at some stage, someone who knows more could tell you what year. The later ones were easier to fit cruise control to.

If you don't want traction control and ABS, or even an ECU, then consider a late 300Tdi.

- Michael

[Didge]

I'll sell you my 95 model 300 TDi Def! Hey, wait a minute, what was I thinking! No, I won't - ha! Get one from someone who's a fool for selling it. Like I said on another thread - it'll become another family pet. Both you two and the kids will love it. Mine's called Boofy, my kids (24, 22 and 18) even call it Boofy (number plate was BFY79Q so that's boofy in our books). Even if the man of the family is not really mechanically minded, coming to this forum and a bit of study will see you feeling reasonably confident about your ability to fix most problems that occur. As for watertightness, none of them are, not even Toyotas and Nissans. In Defs, you just get your feet wet faster. But, with kids in the back, a stock standard Def will take you to far more dangerous situations/positions safely than you think you would want to take your kids. You'll be scared, the kids will be squealing but the Def will just slowly take you there safely. Gods honest truth and I'm not even religious :) Get one, you won't regret it. Even if you change your mind, you won't have trouble selling it :)

[LRO53]

For TD5

Go late Model

02 - onwards

Better Engine (New Resdesigned head, fuel valve thing on rear of head and injector loom problem gone)
Better Dash 02 - Onwards (They changed the Centre console to an updated more userfriendly type, Aircon updated)
Steel Rear Door (Stronger
Pressed Steel door frames (Better fit and feel more solid)

[big guy]

WHY GET A DEFENDER?

Because you can and you know you want to.

If I could part with my Disco there be no other car on my list.

What are you waiting for. A brilliant blue 02-02 model in the market section here right now.;)

[rockyroad]

Just do it. The parts story is just a myth told by toyota drivers to make themselves feel better. There might be more toyota service centres but on many occasions they still wait weeks for parts to arrive.

I live in Rocky and if the local guy doesnt have the part then he has it the next day and the price is usually pretty good.

Finding a defender is the hard part. Those that have them don't want to sell them. I bought my 2000 110 a year ago and was lucky enough to pick it up for $16500. I saw it in the shopping centre with a for sale sign in the back window rang it and was lucky enough to get in first. When handing over the keys the owner admitted I got a good buy and that he should have put another $10000 on it and advertised it more. He probably would have gotten it too (but not from me).

I definitely wouldnt pay that much for the 110 extreme in the ad link especially when you have to travel to Brisbane to get it. Keep your eyes open and the right one will come along.

[rijidij]

One great thing about this type of vehicle, wether it be a Defender, County or Series is you can really 'use' them and not worry. For example, my County is my pride and joy, and although I try not to damage it if I can help it, if I do get a scratch or two, or even a minor dent, it's not the end of the world. If I had a nice shiny Disco, Patrol, Cruiser etc, I probably wouldn't want to get a scratch on that shiny metallic paint.
Just use them and enjoy your trips.

Murray

[5teve]

Its been pretty much said.. but 25k for a '99 with no service and 190k'ks sounds suspicious to me.. there was one recently for sale here same year same model, kitted up to the hilt with all the fruit... nice example, but no service history. The reason? the dealer hid it as it had cracked its head and it had been welded up as a temp measure.. i did the research, found the history, and walked away. Unfortunatley someone else didnt and it was back after 2 months having the head put right.

I paid 1.5k more than the one you were looking at and i got a 2002 extreme with 100k k's on it.. all standard, with full service, even that was expensive for what it was.

there was (dont know if it still is) a nice 2003 in the market here... not far off the money..

as for whether you should buy one.. i did and i'm very happy.. just going through getting things right, stopping the leaks (water) and spending a few dollars on accesories.. but its down to you at the end of the day..

Steve

[ugu80]

One great thing about this type of vehicle, wether it be a Defender, County or Series is you can really 'use' them and not worry. For example, my County is my pride and joy, and although I try not to damage it if I can help it, if I do get a scratch or two, or even a minor dent, it's not the end of the world. If I had a nice shiny Disco, Patrol, Cruiser etc, I probably wouldn't want to get a scratch on that shiny metallic paint.
Just use them and enjoy your trips.

Murray
Hear Hear!
Mine is not much to look at, I don't think there is a panel without a dent or scratch, but it is maintained (mechanically) in perfect condition by a LR specialist regardless of cost (which is no more than a Jap). The upshot is I take it where I wouldn't take my old Landcruiser and I know it will get me there and back. Then when I do get back, cleaning consists of opening the doors and giving everything (and I mean everything) a good hosing.

[Didge]

Just do it. The parts story is just a myth told by toyota drivers to make themselves feel better. There might be more toyota service centres but on many occasions they still wait weeks for parts to arrive.

I live in Rocky and if the local guy doesnt have the part then he has it the next day and the price is usually pretty good.

Finding a defender is the hard part. Those that have them don't want to sell them. I bought my 2000 110 a year ago and was lucky enough to pick it up for $16500. I saw it in the shopping centre with a for sale sign in the back window rang it and was lucky enough to get in first. When handing over the keys the owner admitted I got a good buy and that he should have put another $10000 on it and advertised it more. He probably would have gotten it too (but not from me).

I definitely wouldnt pay that much for the 110 extreme in the ad link especially when you have to travel to Brisbane to get it. Keep your eyes open and the right one will come along.

Rockyroad, you must've been wearing a mask that day - what a steal. My god, that was dirt cheap. I paid $13k for a 95 model 110 after looking for 6 months and was still lucky to beat about 8 or 9 others. 110's for sale are as rare as hens teeth in Sydney. Plenty in SA & WA though!

[5teve]

Rockyroad, you must've been wearing a mask that day - what a steal. My god, that was dirt cheap. I paid $13k for a 95 model 110 after looking for 6 months and was still lucky to beat about 8 or 9 others. 110's for sale are as rare as hens teeth in Sydney. Plenty in SA & WA though!

Dont know where you have been looking in WA? :D i couldnt find a single one... only thanks to Landyandy did i find one...

Steve

[Brid]

G'day Armandnel

Just thought I'd let you know that there is no LR dealer in Rocky. Your closest is a choice of Bundy or Townsville, as I was offered when the immobilizer let me down at Dingo 3 months back.

Despite that and plenty of other warranty issues, I'm still wrapped in my Defender (2007), and plan to keep it long term. Good luck in your search.

Brid

[scrambler]

G'day Armandnel

Just thought I'd let you know that there is no LR dealer in Rocky. Your closest is a choice of Bundy or Townsville, as I was offered when the immobilizer let me down at Dingo 3 months back.

Despite that and plenty of other warranty issues, I'm still wrapped in my Defender (2007), and plan to keep it long term. Good luck in your search.

Brid
Well, yes, but there is an independent Land Rover specialist:

Rockhampton Landrover & Mechanical - Google Maps (http://maps.google.com.au/places/au/park-avenue/glenmore-rd/74/-rockhampton-landrover-&-mechanical?gl=au)

[isuzurover]

I recently went on a big trip in my 110 (canning, Gibb river rd, etc, etc...).

No major issues - proved to be just as reliable as the toyota in our group. But I started to get sick of all the one eyed comments.

Starting with a guy driving a Daihatsu, taking spare parts to a VERY broken Mitsubishi at well 17 - you would think he could see the irony of his comments...

If ever a toyota owner saw you with a spanner in hand on the canning you would never hear the end of it...

Then I had to put up with the spare parts bloke in Halls Ck telling me there are "no land rovers up here - except for a few people who buy them new and trade them in every couple of years before they start breaking down". I also had to convince him that Land Rover hasn't used metric bolts for many years (still don't think he believed me). I was trying to get some hub threads helicoiled. He finally admitted that Land Cruisers had the same problem...

An Kununurra it was just as bad. The guy who supposedly used to sell LR parts and had a couple of landies in his yard was a rude, arrogant, unhelpful *****.

Thankfully, people like Rovacraft can get parts to you anywhere there is a post office in 2 days (just needed a set of brake pads).

So - bottom line - landies are no more or less reliable than any other 4x4. But I am glad that I can fix everything myself, and don't need to rely on arrogant, ignorant yokels to fix them for me in remote areas.

[uninformed]

I recently went on a big trip in my 110 (canning, Gibb river rd, etc, etc...).

No major issues - proved to be just as reliable as the toyota in our group. But I started to get sick of all the one eyed comments.

Starting with a guy driving a Daihatsu, taking spare parts to a VERY broken Mitsubishi at well 17 - you would think he could see the irony of his comments...

If ever a toyota owner saw you with a spanner in hand on the canning you would never hear the end of it...

Then I had to put up with the spare parts bloke in Halls Ck telling me there are "no land rovers up here - except for a few people who buy them new and trade them in every couple of years before they start breaking down". I also had to convince him that Land Rover hasn't used metric bolts for many years (still don't think he believed me). I was trying to get some hub threads helicoiled. He finally admitted that Land Cruisers had the same problem...

An Kununurra it was just as bad. The guy who supposedly used to sell LR parts and had a couple of landies in his yard was a rude, arrogant, unhelpful *****.

Thankfully, people like Rovacraft can get parts to you anywhere there is a post office in 2 days (just needed a set of brake pads).

So - bottom line - landies are no more or less reliable than any other 4x4. But I am glad that I can fix everything myself, and don't need to rely on arrogant, ignorant yokels to fix them for me in remote areas.


may bit a bit of difference between your 110 and the type the op is looking at but agree with all you have said

[isuzurover]

may bit a bit of difference between your 110 and the type the op is looking at but agree with all you have said

Different models, certainly. However parts are still available in ~2 days via air mail. The only big differences is you would need to carry a nanocom (or similar) for the newer models.

One funny story - Offender90 was at a mechanic in Kunners getting his fuel tank repaired. A rental 79 series turned up needing panhard bushes replaced and a coolant leak fixed. The mechanic had to spell P A N H A R D over the phone to the "parts interpreter" at Toyota... :D.

Sad to say, that if I lived in the kimberley and couldn't do my own repairs/servicing, I would own a 7x series like all the other sheeple, you can buy parts for them anywhere and everyone will work on them.

[Jock The Rock]

If you do end up looking at the one you have posted up, check to see if the head has been done.

The early model Td5s had plastic head dowels which fracture/melt and cause a whole heap of wierd overheating problems

[uninformed]

Different models, certainly. However parts are still available in ~2 days via air mail. The only big differences is you would need to carry a nanocom (or similar) for the newer models.

One funny story - Offender90 was at a mechanic in Kunners getting his fuel tank repaired. A rental 79 series turned up needing panhard bushes replaced and a coolant leak fixed. The mechanic had to spell P A N H A R D over the phone to the "parts interpreter" at Toyota... :D.

Sad to say, that if I lived in the kimberley and couldn't do my own repairs/servicing, I would own a 7x series like all the other sheeple, you can buy parts for them anywhere and everyone will work on them.

not so much about the parts availability, but more so the engine, gearbox and more simple design to some parts of yours over newer.....i know alot is the same, but also different....plus you have sorted alot of the known problems......

[jerryd]

I've looked at a few in that dealers in Kedron, I would say that his vehicles are a bit more expensive than elsewhere.
I remember parking my 2001 dual cab there while having a nosey and he offered me $15k for it :eek: