HD DC or 1330 uni for front prop ?

[rick130]

Well, the uni at the t/case end of the shaft is starting to show the tiniest bit of play so it's time, and seeing as I have it a pretty good angle I reckon it needs an update and I've always wanted to have a poll :D

Hardy-Spicer have their HD DII replacement Double Cardan assembly (pt. # 800-R2540) which uses the Japanese 25R uni's, (bigger than the L/R ones, the same as used in L/Cruisers, etc) and more importantly a serviceable/replaceable centre bearing.
I can get that cut and welded onto my existing shaft.

Slunnie bought a DC shaft from Tom Woods in the US which IIRC uses 1310 uni's and at the current exchange rate might be a viable option.

Or,

Do I just get a TD5 Deefer front shaft which uses a 1330 (I think) uni at the t/case end.

I've been lucky thus far and haven't had a real vibe issue considering the height of the front end, but I'm open to arguments for and against.

Simple or smooth ?

Please vote and give a reason why :D

[isuzu110]

I swapped out my OEM front propshaft some 2 years ago because the sliding splines had too much play. I replaced with a new one, only to find out 3 weeks ago that it was a TD5 one with the 92mm UJs.

The UJs in the TD5 one only lasted 2 years and almost all of that time at standard height. I raised the vehicle 2" about 4 months ago. I'm not sure if that accelerated the play in the UJs. I do grease them regularly and over that time, have not done excessive mileage nor offroad abuse.

I was disappointed with the life of the TD5 one and the amount of play after 2 years. Next time I'd look at the costs of a DC one.

[rick130]

92mm = 1330 series Spicer uni, so i guessed right.

They don't have a bigger operating angle than the 1300 series, but they are bigger/stronger so should last longer at the angle they are asked to operate at.
Two years isn't very long at all. :(

[Slunnie]

Well, the uni at the t/case end of the shaft is starting to show the tiniest bit of play so it's time, and seeing as I have it a pretty good angle I reckon it needs an update and I've always wanted to have a poll :D

Hardy-Spicer have their HD DII replacement Double Cardan assembly (pt. # 800-R2540) which uses the Japanese 25R uni's, (bigger than the L/R ones, the same as used in L/Cruisers, etc) and more importantly a serviceable/replaceable centre bearing.
I can get that cut and welded onto my existing shaft.

Slunnie bought a DC shaft from Tom Woods in the US which IIRC uses 1310 uni's and at the current exchange rate might be a viable option.

Or,

Do I just get a TD5 Deefer front shaft which uses a 1330 (I think) uni at the t/case end.

I've been lucky thus far and haven't had a real vibe issue considering the height of the front end, but I'm open to arguments for and against.

Simple or smooth ?

Please vote and give a reason why :D
I'm pretty sure the Spicer DII part does not have a greasable centre bearing, but does have greasable uni joints.

The TD5 Defer front shaft is a regular uni -> uni shaft also, its not a DC shaft. Is it the Puma shaft??? If it is, are you def its 1330, and if so is it compatible with a D2 output flange? Also, does it have a greasable centre bearing - I'm increasingly thinking that this a trigger for DC failures, but depending it sounds like an interesting upgrade option.

The bigger uni joints are more durable, but if there are any vibrations coming from that area, the larger joints will increase this problem (ie,why you wouldn't run a 1350 on the road like what the rock crawlers run).

Personally, if the Puma??? DC shaft is fully greasable ie centre bearing and unis, and you don't have vibs then it sounds good, otherwise I would run with the Tom Woods 1310 shafts with his unis and greasable centre bearing.

[rick130]

Slunnie, the Hardy Spicer HD DC centre bearing is at least replaceable, which it isn't with the OE DC as everyone finds out .
I'll ring and ask re being greasable in situ. There's an access hole in the photo's on the flyer I have, and if you blow it up it looks like there's a grease nipple there.
It'd be nice if you could jam the grease gun in there when doing the uni's, sort of defeats the purpose if the uni's are greasable and it isn't, doesn't it ?

The TD5 Defender just uses a single 1330 uni at the t/case end and a 1300 at the diff end vs 1300/1300 uni's for a Tdi.

The Puma shafts are a totally different length.

[isuzu110]

My replacement front prop shaft (which I thought was TD5) has 92mm UJs at both ends

[Tombie]

Spicer unit is fully greaseable at all points

[rick130]

My replacement front prop shaft (which I thought was TD5) has 92mm UJs at both ends

Thanks.
Been a while since i looked under a TD5 Fender. If it's not too wet tomorrow I'll crawl under a friends one in town :D

[stig0000]

why and i running a DC, i see it as if i do get more lift, with a dc you are going to need some massive flex b4 the DC will start to fail, the one im running is uprated allround and is fully greasabull, (it was a d2 sharft to start with b4 mods) there isent much left of it tho,

and yes i had to change my tc out put flange to a d2 flange, no biggy, 5min job, and 200 bucks later and i have a very strong shaft,

[Psimpson7]

Thanks.
Been a while since i looked under a TD5 Fender. If it's not too wet tomorrow I'll crawl under a friends one in town :D

Not all of them have the 92mm joint on both ends. My original front prop didn't but my replacement one which I had in the garage had one on both ends.

It seems to be random as far as I can tell.

I have had 2 of these fail, and am now on my 3rd. both times it was the TC end one that failed.

[rick130]

Not all of them have the 92mm joint on both ends. My original front prop didn't but my replacement one which I had in the garage had one on both ends.

It seems to be random as far as I can tell.

I have had 2 of these fail, and am now on my 3rd. both times it was the TC end one that failed.

Thanks Pete, I'm not totally losing my marbles afterall :D

What sort of bump stop clearance are you running again ?

Mines dropped a bit over the years, it's only around 105/100mm or so now which has probably saved the uni and probably really shows how little real off road work it's done for a fair old while :angel: Although I snapped another couple of hose clamps retaining the rear springs again this arvo :D:

[Psimpson7]

Will check clearance tommorow as its throwing it down with rain and I can't face going out!

Personally I would probably stay with the basic larger joints just because they are cheaper to replace.

[Slunnie]

Slunnie, the Hardy Spicer HD DC centre bearing is at least replaceable, which it isn't with the OE DC as everyone finds out .
I'll ring and ask re being greasable in situ. There's an access hole in the photo's on the flyer I have, and if you blow it up it looks like there's a grease nipple there.
It'd be nice if you could jam the grease gun in there when doing the uni's, sort of defeats the purpose if the uni's are greasable and it isn't, doesn't it ?

The TD5 Defender just uses a single 1330 uni at the t/case end and a 1300 at the diff end vs 1300/1300 uni's for a Tdi.

The Puma shafts are a totally different length.

Thanks for this Rick. Spicer may have redesigned, though the ones which I have had a hole which passed through into the centre bearing which grease may have been injected into, though the problem is when the DC is built, the uni joint covers the hole and prevents any method which I could see to inject grease into that hole. Perhaps they have a redesign, though what I'm hearing is that the DC's designed with the greasable DC centre bearing has a weaker flange which can be more prone to failure. Tom got around that by using cast steel rather than cast iron - I was under the impression that was a part unique to him rather than a normal Spicer part.

[rick130]

It looks like Hardy Spicer are using a Mechanics DC coupling, not a Spicer for their HD DII joint.

They are using 25R uni's in the DC, and the 25R uni has a much higher torque rating than a 1300 or 1330, even better than a 1410 :eek:

According to the Spicer manual

1300 Series = 162Nm constant, 815Nm short duration
1310 Series = 176Nm constant, 1085Nm short duration
1330 Series = 203Nm constant, 1206Nm short duration
1350 Series = 286Nm constant, 1681Nm short duration

25R Series = 380Nm constant, 1898Nm short duration

FWIW the 1300 uni used in later RRC's, Disco's and Defenders is listed as a Heavy Duty version. (K5-A757)
I don't know if that means longer lifed or better torque rating than a standard 1300 uni.

I think Tombies posted this before, and i did in the lifted Puma thread too

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ (http://img534.imageshack.us/i/4wddoublecardanassy.gif/)


Pete linked to these in a previous thread.
Devon 4x4 Off Road - Wide angle propshaft for Land Rover : PROPWA610 : Off Road Equipment from Devon 4x4 (http://www.devon4x4.com/products_a/p1401c10080/0/wide-angle-propshaft-for-land-rover.html)
http://www.devon4x4.com/components/com_shop/user/1227114365-wide_angle_propshaft.jpg

Worth consideration too, although it might be a bit exxy from the UK. Someone here could fab one up pretty easily.

[Psimpson7]

Some interesting info there, esp the strength of the 25r joints. They would still be limited by the joint the other end I guess.

regards bumptop clearance on mine, I checked earlier and it was about 135mm.