simple bio-diesel?

[ramblingboy42]

is there a really simple way to make bio-diesel? I have read many threads on bio-diesel and do not like most of the methods involved. surely there is a simple, proven catalyst that can be added to wvo to make it suitable for your diesel engine. not interested in chemistry sets, heaters, multiple filters, just a pure simple additive to make wvo work well in a diesel engine. I can clean the wvo, thats simple. I have heard, but have no conclusive evidence that white spirits will work.....same as KoH and ethanol....I can get ethanol easily, but where do I find KoH(potassium hydroxide)? what I'm really asking here is to hear something from the horses mouth.

[isuzurover]

is there a really simple way to make bio-diesel? I have read many threads on bio-diesel and do not like most of the methods involved. surely there is a simple, proven catalyst that can be added to wvo to make it suitable for your diesel engine. not interested in chemistry sets, heaters, multiple filters, just a pure simple additive to make wvo work well in a diesel engine. I can clean the wvo, thats simple. I have heard, but have no conclusive evidence that white spirits will work.....same as KoH and ethanol....I can get ethanol easily, but where do I find KoH(potassium hydroxide)? what I'm really asking here is to hear something from the horses mouth.

You want METHANOL, not ethanol. You can use NaOH - available anywhere, or KOH - readily available from chemical suppliers.

There are researchers who have looked at transesterification without catalysts in microreactors, but that sort of technology is not yet proven and out of the reach of the backyarder.

It sounds as if you should look at straight SVO/WVO. Just filter it and put it in your tank - though you need to first install a 2nd tank and heat exchangers in your vehicle.

[ramblingboy42]

NaOH?....available anywhere....common name?

[isuzurover]

NaOH?....available anywhere....common name?

Sodium Hydroxide AKA Caustic Soda - Bunnings, pool chemical suppliers, etc, etc...

(but if you want it cheap you will need to go to an industrial chemnical supplier and buy in bulk - same as with Potassium Hydroxide (KOH))

[ramblingboy42]

I was given a recipe 4gm koh : 250ml ethanol (diggers metho)/ltr wvo, mix at 55c then filter @ 1mic
can I use caustic soda in lieu of potassium hydroxide? does it matter if methanol/ethanol?

[isuzurover]

I was given a recipe 4gm koh : 250ml ethanol (diggers metho)/ltr wvo, mix at 55c then filter @ 1mic
can I use caustic soda in lieu of potassium hydroxide? does it matter if methanol/ethanol?

Read here:
Making Biodiesel from Waste Vegetable Oil - Bio Fuels Forums (http://www.biofuelsforum.com/making_biodiesel/81-making_biodiesel_waste_vegetable_oil.html)

[indybike]

I've been running my D1 on a WVO duel tank system for more than 30 000km without ever trying to make bio-diesel or using white spirit. You just need to filter the oil and add a second set of fuel lines with a heat exchanger for the WVO. There are a couple of other things like changing your engine oil and fuel filters every 5000km (and the mess in the garage from the oil spills). It really is that easy.
Making bio-diesel is dirty, dangerous and time consuming.

[Hall]

I have run a vehicle on straight wvo.It was a 4wd truck with a 2h motor. I was using both oil and then fat. Veg oil is good but I found a couple of problems with it. One was it could have been used to stick the tiles to the space shuttle. Spill it on any thing you wish it to come of, yeah right. Two it will form a algae in your tank if the conditions are right. Warm and dark. So if you run a tank heater as I did you grew algae. A reddish brown growth. Apart from those minor problems it was ok. Now fat. Or in my case a soft lard like fat,almost melted at room temp. You also have more hassles before you get to the tank. To filter it you need to melt it, to put in your vehicle tank you need to melt it. After pumping it through a filter you need to clean the pump, filter and hoses. The vehicle tank needs to be heated and you need to run a fat only heated fuel line up to the motor and close as possible to the injector pump a tank selector valve. I was lucky that the 2H does not return any fuel to the tank,recirculates at the pump. The only good thing with fat is it does not grow algae like the veg oil. But it does expand a lot more when it is heated so you need to alow for that when filling a tank.And straight veg or fat rely on a fairly high iodine level ( what gives bio fuel it`s bang) Veg oils seems to be of a fairly consistent quality for its iodine level, but fat or at least the stuff I was using was a bit hit and miss. One tank it would run ok and next it would run like a dog. Both veg oil and fat must be purged from the injector pump before you stop for a length of time that allows the oil or fat to solidify. You can tow start a veg oil filled motor, not real good for it though. You are in more trouble with fat. I`m considering making bio fuel because of the hassles associated with straight veg oil or fat. I would not use striaght veg or fat of road because of the chance of the motor stopping for a while. But as it has been noted making bio is a hassle as well, but only in the making stage, not in the usage stage.
Do remember some classic moments when running on bio and dogs going ape over the smell and people at lite`s madly winding there windows up when I pulled up next to them. The oil smelt not to bad at all. That fat was a bit like off meat, not so good, so can understand the reaction I got from other motorists.
Cheers Hall

[maca]

An old site but still a goddie:

Journey to Forever: Hong Kong to Cape Town Overland - An adventure in environment and development, join us on the Internet, all welcome, participation, online education, school projects, free of charge (http://journeytoforever.org/)

And they even have Landies!!

[indybike]

I have run a vehicle on straight wvo.It was a 4wd truck with a 2h motor. I was using both oil and then fat. Veg oil is good but I found a couple of problems with it. One was it could have been used to stick the tiles to the space shuttle. Spill it on any thing you wish it to come of, yeah right. Two it will form a algae in your tank if the conditions are right. Warm and dark. So if you run a tank heater as I did you grew algae. A reddish brown growth. Apart from those minor problems it was ok. Now fat. Or in my case a soft lard like fat,almost melted at room temp. You also have more hassles before you get to the tank. To filter it you need to melt it, to put in your vehicle tank you need to melt it. After pumping it through a filter you need to clean the pump, filter and hoses. The vehicle tank needs to be heated and you need to run a fat only heated fuel line up to the motor and close as possible to the injector pump a tank selector valve. I was lucky that the 2H does not return any fuel to the tank,recirculates at the pump. The only good thing with fat is it does not grow algae like the veg oil. But it does expand a lot more when it is heated so you need to alow for that when filling a tank.And straight veg or fat rely on a fairly high iodine level ( what gives bio fuel it`s bang) Veg oils seems to be of a fairly consistent quality for its iodine level, but fat or at least the stuff I was using was a bit hit and miss. One tank it would run ok and next it would run like a dog. Both veg oil and fat must be purged from the injector pump before you stop for a length of time that allows the oil or fat to solidify. You can tow start a veg oil filled motor, not real good for it though. You are in more trouble with fat. I`m considering making bio fuel because of the hassles associated with straight veg oil or fat. I would not use striaght veg or fat of road because of the chance of the motor stopping for a while. But as it has been noted making bio is a hassle as well, but only in the making stage, not in the usage stage.
Do remember some classic moments when running on bio and dogs going ape over the smell and people at lite`s madly winding there windows up when I pulled up next to them. The oil smelt not to bad at all. That fat was a bit like off meat, not so good, so can understand the reaction I got from other motorists.
Cheers Hall

Many people run return lines when using WVO and have no problem with "algae". It is common knowledge in the WVO community that if you use a steel tank you will have this problem. If you run the WVO in a plastic tank there is no problem (ever).
There have been many thousands of vehicle conversions performed without issue including heavy machinery. You just have to do the research.

[3-Gees]

Having made bio-diesel for over 15 years,I can only say you get out what you put in,if your running a inline injector pump you have some leeway,but for rotorary pumps(tdi's) and common rail engines ,fuel quality is vital! Poorly made fuel gives the user a headache and the industry a bad name,there are no short cuts to making good fuel,but there are efficient methods and Journey to forever is a good site.I've allways tried to make the best fuel possible and as a result have had no major problems and the hickups that did happen were sorted out years ago.All my fuel is two-stage cracked,every batch titrated,washed,p-h tested and dried before being dosed with anti oxidation treatment,this is necessary to stop red deposits forming due to fuel breakdown,these deposits build up and become sticky causing problems in some fuel systems (td5 pumps and some common rail pumps),its up to you how much reliability you want out of your vehicle and how much spare time you have,cheers!!!:)

[royboy]

hi all I would like to tell story about what we now call bio fuel,
a long time ago when I was but a lad I was listening to an old mate of my dads talking about his time in the war as a diesel mech. and what they use to use when the supply truck couldn't get through, he was saying they would use the old oil from the deep fryers and the trucks and thin it down with anything that was combustible mainly kero until it was about as thick as standard diesel fuel. now having this info stored in the memory banks one day I came across this 81 hj60 cruiser in the back yard of house I was doing work on, I asked the elderly owner what he was going to do with it, he told me he had bought it to travel around aust with wife which they did 3 times, checking the odometer I seen it had over 450,000ks on it, it had sat in his yard ever since his wife had past (about 3 years), and I could have it for $500 if I wanted it. no rego but good tires and looked clean with a little rust in the roof area as they do, it had a 2h diesel with a nippondenso pump, low and behold it started first go so I bought it got a blue slip a put rego on it and drove it around for about six mths then lost my job, no job no money no money no fuel, then I remember that conversation I heard years before, so down to the local takeaway/fish shop I went, what do you do with the old oil in your frier's I asked, we shot it out they replied, can I get some next you clean out the vats no prob they said come back next week, this I did and received 120lt of old fryer oil, I took it home and began to filter it, I ended up with 90lt of clean veg oil, down to the servo and got 20lt of kero, mixed the kero with oil until it flowed like diesel ended up with about 50lt of fuel oil and poured it in to my almost empty tank started it up and drove it around all week with out a problem, It ended up working out that in summer I could mix it 60-40 ratio 60 oil 40 kero/diesel and in the winter it was the reverse I drove that thing for 5 more years on those mixes with no probs at all, however a mate asked me what and how I was doing it so being a mate I told him he has a 4.2lt Patrol and lives in QLD thank havens because not long after he tried my mix the fuel pump blew up and cost him a packet to replace as they do, just so happens the mech he took it to new about the exploits of the war and said therer were only a few pumps the could handle the hi oil mix and one was the one on the h2 toyota motors. anyway it was a cheap drive until the dreaded brown cancer final put it off the road. well thats my story and I hope you enjoyed it.

[superquag]

I thought I'd forgotten about BioDiesel, especially as I've crossed to the Dark Side... (SPARK ignition).

So here's the question and the answer in one.

"Where do you want to do your mucking about, ON the vehicle or OFF the vehicle?"

If its 'On', then you set up a dual tank Waste Veggie Oil system with heater and switchable return etc etc.

If you want your vehicle bog-standard, then you make biodiesel in your shed/backyard/garage and pour it into the fuel tank.

Your choice. - influenced only by the space you have, vehicle and what the War Office will let you get away with...

Either way, the *only* place to start is:-

Forums - Powered by Social Strata (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751)

There are no shrt cts, spend more than a few evenings reading up the archives, see 'who' was doing what and where from... - Quite a lot of the really Good Stuff is from Aussie members.

Couple of names, Neutral knows his stuff inside and out.... Tilly has the ability to make the most complex stuff easy to digest and replicate, Biocruiser will show you a great way to water-wash. - Tilly actually is a Yank,, but he's had the Operation and now understands our humour. Lives up in sunny Queensland.

Word about washing. You either do or you could pay for it in the very very long term, most likely if you use it in a late model wussy diesel. The older ones before Engine management comps were made of sterner stuff.

If you do, then you do it properly, that is, with water, not with flocculating powders as one commercial maker used to.... - Don't ask, cost me a filter and a tow home.... Also dry it well, and use a fuel conditioner/Algacide.
And be fussy about your feed-stock. Filter it at every possible excuse!

The chemistry is'nt difficult to live with, large doses of common sense will keep you alive and those around you, but for the usual Nanny-state Legal Reasons I'm advising "everyone" to never-ever do it or even think about it 'cos its all terribly lethal, dangerous, explosive, poisonous, corrosive messy and against some law somewhere.

You still here?

- THIS is where you need to be!

Forums - Powered by Social Strata (http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/6/ubb.x?a=cfrm&s=447609751)

James from Perth

[Blknight.aus]

look up the DR pepper method, thats where I started....

that'll give you a feel for the ground.

I turfed making bio when alex got big enough to go exploring around the yard and got rid of everything..

now I just filter it, heat it dewater it, stick it in the tank, add about 40l of diesel to 120l of WVO and call it done. I have 4 filters between the main WVO tank and the injector pump, 3 water seperators and 3 strainers. There are 3 tanks on the vehicle 1 blended WVO tank, the main running tank and the spare tank that always has fresh diesel in it. IF I pooch the mix a little I just keep on chugging and flow more fresh diesel into the running mix.

I do get some bad days, but then I'm a mechanic and its usually less than 10 minutes to sort most problems.

[SimonP38a]

The petrol stations in Qld are all putting out petrol with 10% ethanol. It is a little cheaper than petrol. Will E-10 damage my 2000MY P38a (Thor engine):question:

Simon

[Blknight.aus]

nope but it will pick up water from everywhere and you may notice a loss of performance depending on the quality of the fuel that you get (this is influenced by the conditions of the underground tank and the e10 turnover of the servo more than anything)

[pfillery]

I knew someone who set up a little filter/cooker in the back of their (I'm about to use the forbidden word now so those who are sensitive should cover their eyes) Landcruiser, to filter WVO and ended up driving around the country for virtually nothing, the setup cost about $750 to build and fit and was plumbed so the oil could be added, filtered and drained directly into the 2nd tank while they were camped for the night. They would just collect a little oil wherever they went, process enough each night to drive the next day and by morning they were full and ready to go. Not sure if there were any additives used but I guess with the right heating and filtration a good thin oil should work in place of the regular diesel. Never having owned a diesel I'm not up with all the whys and wherefors but they ran an old 70's Merc diesel sedan on mythbusters once on straight filtered diesel and it seemed to work fine.

[Michael2]

I looked into running a WVO conversion in the 300Tdi after a work colleague who was running an older Merc on it offered me an unlimited supply of filtered WVO.

In researching the subject I discovered that for WVO to reach the lubricosity of diesel it had to be heated to 180.C The lubricosity issue isn't critical for old buses, tractors and mercs, but is for high speed modern diesels.

[3-Gees]

The main problem with using straight wvo is the glycerin is still in the oil ,and when burnt ,forms a hard glaze which can damage bores and stick injection pumps,as Superquag says ,there are no short cuts if you want to make a quality bio-diesel.Also ,system components must be suitable,afer 3 years testing two Td5's on high standard bio-diesel,we found that non-genuine fuel filters were causing pump failures. This was due to the wrong plastics used in the filter paper ,were releasing plasticers which were sticking the ceramic discs(in the low pressure part of pump) together casuing the pump to burn out. The car using genuine filters had no pump failures and is still running b100 with no problems,both cars used fuel from same batches and travelled smillar km:eek:(and no,I dont work for LR:angel:),just thought I'd share some trade secrets:) learn't after 15 years of fuel making:cool:,cheers ,Gregg;)

[superquag]

Ouch, never had a fuel pump pack it in on me, but then again, my trial horse was a Mazda van, 'grey' import, 2 litre turbo diesel with mechanical fuel injection pump.
That much abused bus had some terrible mixtures fed through it, from un-heated WVO, to some very iffy biodiesel with almost as much residual methanol as fuel !

I ran RYCO filters, and only had two blockages, first being early on when the bioDiesel obviously cleaned the tank and lines....and dumped it in the filter... which was long, long overdue a change anyway.... and the second was due to cold weather and using feedstock that was largely Palm Oil.

Palm Oil based BioDiesel WILL thicken up if it gets cold enough, eventually clogging the filter. This thickened brew can also snap the main drive shaft in a Lucas-CAV Injection Pump...

Normally you get some warning, engine sounding like a cold petrol engine... and the diagnosis can be confirmed by pouring loads of hot water over the IP and filter.

If in doubt, put a sample in the fridge for a few hours...

Around 100k in the Mazda and 70k in the Pajero 4d56T (2.5 litre turbo)

James in Perth.

[alhedward]

I am running 3 300tdi vehicles on WVO and have had no adverse effects.
I use a mix of 20ltr Diesel, 2ltr petrol and 58ltr WVO. I have a heater on each of the injector pipes just before the injectors and have replaced the plastic pipe and banjo to the injector pump with a 30cm length of steel pipe with a banjo silver soldered to the end. This also has a heater on it. The heaters are regulated to 100 deg C.

The standard fuel filter is more than capable of delivering at a high enough rate to prevent the lift pump being stalled.

I get no smoke, the engine runs more smoothly and it also is quieter. I have noticeable increase in power and I get the same mileage.

The WVO is cold filtered to 5 microns.

I am considering a band heater for the fuel filter to allow me to use hot filtered WVO as any animal fat will then pass through the standard filter meaning virtually no waste product from the filtering process other than solids.

I have another 2 vehicles to convert one being a 200tdi.

A mod I have done to the Defender 300tdi is to move the turbo boost pressure lines from the output of the turbo up to the intake plenum. This has given me a 1 psi increase. The other mod I have done is to put a T piece in the wastegate actuator pipe and bleed directly to the atmosphere. What this has achieved is another 2 - 2.5 psi of boost and a much shorter spool up time of the turbo. The other advantage is that the wastegate stays shut until closer to the opening pressure.

Performance has been greatly enhanced. I have no figures as yet but will be looking to put it on a dyno soon.

[Disco_Balls]

I realy like the idea of running diesels on alternative fuels ... Its kind of amazing to me to think what I cook my chips in can also get me to and from work, infact, I think its brilliant!
I remember watching the news years and years ago when they done a story of a bloke from Gosford (from memory) that had made diesel fuel from WVO and showed trucks that were running on the stuff, it was a fascinating watch! The finer details about the story are quite vague to me now.

Here's a question,

What are the cost savings relative to just going to the pump and filling up with regular diesel?
Factoring in costs to modify the fuel system, making the fuel, costs of materials, time ... Once its all said and done, what is the final $$ value/litre on what you have just made?

[superquag]

I'd worked out my costs at around 40 to 45 cents per litre, when the pump price was 99 cents/litre.

This included allowance for power, (heating the oil for the reaction) water, as I water-washed thoroughly, and buying the filtered WVO at 15 cents per litre.
Also accounted for was a 60km round trip to pick up the oil at 200 to 280 litres at a time.

And yes, I was doing it for several years with no problems at all, either in my own vehicles or any of the others that regularly ran on it...

But all this is purely academic now, as the govt now demands 38 cents / litre excise, and offers a rebate of..... 38 cents per litre, if and only IF, you jump through a zillion hoops.

Which is the main reason I stopped making it... Was *NOT* going to contribute to public servants being paid to do less than nothing productive.

So now you can buy ordinary diesel, or mixed in with Gull's diesel in ??? % (read the fine print, their BioD is "...UP to 20%")

[superquag]

My apologies, I was talking about making bioDiesel.

I did try heated WVO and it ran fine, though with a stronger exhaust smell than my bio...

My Bongo wagon did'nt have enough spare space to go the dual-tank plumbing nightmare etc of WVO, and I preferred to do my 'fiddling' OFF the car.

But with some ingenuity anything is possible... such as a Mazda 626 with a WVO tank built next to the radiator, on the passenger side. Quite elaborate and used up most of the available space, held, I think, 18 or so litres. Tank had a few loops of pipe carrying hot water. And a large enough filler lid to accept scoopfuls of lumpy fat.

Fuel filter was a Z9 oil filter, kept up to temp via a heated clamp.

The Big Secret to WVO is to filter, filter...and filter it first. Then keep it warm enough to be as runny as normal diesel. Cold filtering is excellent, though usually done 'Off-vehicle'.

James in Perth