Thinking of buying p38 - running costs compared to Disco 1 v8?

[Leathered]

My Disco 98 v8 is getting written off by the insurance company after a recent "tree incident."

I've used the Disco for 18 months as a second car for camping trips, and the occasional light off road duties (beach, 4x4 only tracks - nothing major).

I want something to fill the same roll and fancy a change from a Disco, and I'd love a Rangie, but I've been warned away from p38s as being money pits, even compared with Discos.

I don't do my own servicing as I don't have time, but I'll do basic repairs myself - I'm better with bikes but relatively ok with cars.

Are p38s more expensive to own than Discos? I've had quite a few niggling faults that I've been fixing myself so cost have been quite low.

Are they really money pits?

[big guy]

I van only speak from a relatively short period of time with one, a 2000 model 4.6HSE, and by jiggle my toes, it drove well.
Every time I pressed unlock and entered into the plush leather and turned the key and suspension just worked and air-con made no noises it was bliss.

I had it for 3 months, I spend $2k on repairs like silly electrical matters and some little motors in the aircon were playing up(Flapper motors) or something.

The reason I sold, was 2 fold. I feared for more expensive things to happen and leave me stranded and I was just not keen to take it off-road. It just seemed wrong, the car was just too good in my eyes. Although very capable I know.

I made some $$$ when I sold it as it was very low K's, great colour(white), HSE and had a brilliant log book history plus it was the updated model 99 onwards with Bosch electrics.

Still sad I sold it but it made way for different cars I feel I can now get in and drive to anywhere and not really have to worry.

At the end of the day, set away a slush fund for it, say $100 bucks a week and use that for running repairs and maintenance as these are/were top of the line cars in their day and will cost to maintain-- No doubt about but the reward has been So good I still think of getting another.
My advise, Yes if you you have the funds, the time to find the right one and the ride will be an addiction.
Don't drive one unless you are ready to be bitten. I am not joking, they are so different to a Disco you be Gob smacked.

Cheers;)

[PeterH]

I think with any car it can be good luck bad luck, things can go wrong with any car, even Holden or Ford parts can be expensive.
The big thing is maintenance. If you maintain your vehicle regularly you will reduce your chances of a breakdown.
I am lucky in that I do have time to do my own maintainance, which saves me a fortune in mechanics bills, I learn more about my Rangie every time I do it, I know exactly what has been done, and it's done properly.
If you have to pay for servicing and all repairs it may sway the budget a bit too far, but anything you can do yourself will reduce the bills.
There is tons of great info on repair operations on rangerovers.net, well worth a look if you are considering buying a P38.

As far as actual running costs go, my 2001 HSE 4.6 is much more fuel efficient than my 1989 3.5 efi. I can go 2 weeks on a tank in the 2001, it averages about 15.1 litres per 100 km. I didn't get anything like that with my 1989 Rangie.
As Big Guy said, don't take one for a drive unless you are serious about buying one, you can't help it, it gets you straight away! There is a huge difference to a Disco 1, you will be amazed at how comfortable they are to drive and that air suspension, I couldn't believe it when I drove over the first speed hump, hardly felt a thing!
Like most P38 owners, it can be a love hate relationship, little annoying things can go wrong, but try wiping the smile off your face every time you climb in and start her up!
Make sure it has not overheated in the past if you can, the V8's do not like that at all.
A faultmate code reader is invaluable, it will tell you what is going on, or at least point you in the right direction.
You can also get free 'EAS unlock suite' software to help with any EAS issues.
I know there is a lot to consider, but if you are leaning towards one, you are probably already gone...what colour are you getting?
Hope this helps.

[Leathered]

I'm no stranger to cars (and bikes) that require a bit of extra love.

I've had 3 Alfa Romeo's, Land rovers and Italian sportsbikes.

I've wanted a Rangie for ages (ever since I got the Discovery funnily enough).

I was warned off the Disco and the Alfa's, but character comes at a price and they were all great cars.

It's true, you can have bad luck with any car, at least if you bought the one you really wanted rather than the one that the market thought was best you don't begrudge the money you spend.

I think I'm talking myself into buying one :D

[81stubee]

As everybody has said, do your research on both hear and Range Rovers (http://www.rangerovers.net) and above all else DO NOT DRIVE ONE UNLESS YOU ARE READY T COMMIT!:o

I've had mine for two years and have spent over 10G on a new engine and gearbox, and easter this year the new motor let go. Luckily it was repaired under warranty. ever since easter its been in various workshops getting assesed. I have even gone so far as buying another car and had committed to selling it when i finally got it back. That all changed when I got it back last week and took her for a drive. Damn these cars have a personality. Now i'm fighting to justify selling it even after all the problems and money.

Would I do it again??? You betcha but I would probably wait until I had a little more money behind me and a house, so I didn't have to borrow for the repairs.

In a nutshell.

- If you are prepared to look after the car, go over it every couple of days and have a good cheapish mechanic, then go for it. And seeing as you've had alfa's before you should be fine.
- If you want a car you can just leave in the shed and not touch it, then no I can't reccomend. Go buy a toymotor.

Hope this helps

Stu

[Keithy P38]

In addition to all of the above, keep in mind that it's not every Rangie that is born to give headaches! A well kept and well maintained one will be the most trouble-free car of all - i guess this principle applies to most cars really! Mine was a regularly serviced low km example when i got it about a year ago, and the biggest expense so far has been a water pump - the part that every car has and needs to be replaced periodically anyway!

Airbag suspension is something to have a very good look over when going looking as well. Get under and inspect the bags - if it's suss, then don't buy it, or knock the price down a few grand so you can use the spare cash to replace them (with Arnotts Gen III bags!!).

The cooling system on the Rangie is no different to any newish car either. The main reason people see problems is most likely because there are a million hoses running here and there. That means more hoses to replace once they are perished or buggered! I've recently done two heater hoses on mine also, next is the hose from the coolant tank down! It comes with the territory really!

Another big thing that's often overlooked is the transmission and transfer case. There are not that many P38's that are dying or causing greif because of issues with these, however it'd pay to change all the fluids in the car when you get it so you know exactly how many k's are on what oils/coolants.

If the water pump was my biggest problem so far on a 10yr old Rangie - then I rekon i've got a good one!

Cheers
Keith

[Leathered]

- If you are prepared to look after the car, go over it every couple of days and have a good cheapish mechanic, then go for it. And seeing as you've had alfa's before you should be fine.
- If you want a car you can just leave in the shed and not touch it, then no I can't reccomend. Go buy a toymotor.


Wow - are they really that maintenance heavy?

There's no way I've got time for that at the moment as I travel up to 4 hours to work every day.

Hmm, I might have to re-think here.

Realistically, my general methods of care are; look after the important bits, i.e fluids hoses etc, and service on schedule and don't worry to much about the little things until I've time to fix.

I wouldn't expect to spend more than half an hour per week on a car, unless some things broken.

Am I sounding more like a Patrol owner here?:eek:

Likely hood of blown engines is enough to scare me off right now - I want a new bike and a popped engine would see that dream turn to dust.

[Leathered]

That said I would expect to spend time straight after purchase sorting stuff out.

That's just part of the joy of "new car time" :)

[VladTepes]

ask ADM333 he's got a P38 and has done almost everythng to them at one time or another (learn via experience) and could offer a valid opinion on this question,.

[adm333]

Petrol and oil, probably about the same.....

BUT here's what I wrote in another post which may or may not be helpful...

There are a great many perishable components on a P38. I refer to rubber airbags, o'rings of all shapes and sizes, seals etc etc. All of these components need to be replaced over time, not distance. The time frame for replacing these bits is around ten years. If you buy a 2000 / 2001 model car that has not had these perishable components replaced then guess what.....they are about to show signs of wear and you will need to replace them. I believe that a big part of the "unreliability" reputation comes down to people not realising that these components simply need to be renewed, and before they cause bigger problems.

My P38 has been supremely reliable, with only 2 occasions where it let me down, both of which were understandable (flat battery etc).

However, I am a bit of a perfectionist and I make it a personal challenge to seek down every little niggly fault as soon as it shows and research it, understand it and fix it. If you are like this then the P38 is the perfect car for you. My point is that there is usually something of this nature to do. It can all be done very cheaply if you put in the time to find out how.

On the other hand if you are the sort of person who is not phased by little niggly things, then it could also work well.

Not trying to be negative, just trying to set a realistic expectation !!

Good luck
Dave

[Aussie]

Having owned a 1999 model P38 for four years, I'd have to say I would never buy one again and would most certainly not recomend them. Very costly mistake indeed.

[DT-P38]

Hey there Aussie,

So what is going on with your old mistress? Did she find a new lover yet? I didn't catch if she ended up selling on that e-bay auction or not.

If she did, what did you end up getting? If she didn't, are you gonna strip her down and sell off some of the fresher bits? From memory you had put quite a few desirable bits and pieces into her... Not that I need any of it, but I do keep seeing guys looking for fuse box repairs, suspension refresh bits, etc

Oh yeah, and how is that new bitsamissin going? You gotten used to the backward step yet? :D:D:D My pretty pig is in the panel shop at the moment and I've just about had a gut full of driving the mrs croozer around! Those jap things are just sooooo agricultural.

Keep smiling! Dave & the pretty pig

[Leathered]

Thanks to all of you for the very informative answers.


I think this time I will be giving the Rangie a miss as I'm not sure I have the time or the inclination to look after one properly.

I'm going back looking for a Disco 2, Patrol or Cruiser.

Maybe next time..............

[PaulP38a]

That's a shame because you will be missing out on owning one of the most capable and comfortable 4wds around.
The posts in this thread are largely negative because we tend to focus on the things that go wrong rather than all the times that it is running well and out-classing pretty much everything else.
The fact that you asked what to look for puts you way ahead of most people in that you now know what to run away from or what gives you leverage in negotiating a lower sale price.
I'm not sure that buying a cruiser, patrol or d2 will assure you of lower maintenance... I have mates with patrols and cruisers that spend a lot more time in the shop than either of my P38's.

Wish you well whatever path you choose, but there is a great community here to help if you do go down the p38 route.

Cheers, Paul.

[Leathered]

Thanks.

Nothing's set in stone just yet & we'll see what comes up.

My wife is keen to wait for the "right" car what ever comes up good at the time.

I get a bit obsessed and blinkered by the bling.

Too many good choices out there and I can't have them all unfortunately.

A big plus on the side of Land Rovers in general is the community support. It gives people the confidence to get busy with the spanners knowing they aren't alone.

[Fish78]

Im in a similar situation mate, been interested in getting a P38A for over 12mths, ive found a couple a decent ones, came very close to parting with cash for one recently.

Possible new job that would require moving has put a hold on my hunt for now, but to tell the truth im obsessed with them now, keep seeing P38s everywhere and there is only 2 or 3 in my town lol.

If it helps i'm a former Patrol owner, driven most every Cruiser in last 15 yrs for work, spent time in Disco's and for me the Rangie is far ahead of them as a total package.

The one gripe i have is the slipped liner issue, i intened to take care of that quickly when i become an owner,either top hat it or swap engine over to a Chev LS3. just about any other problem is fixable anywhere with the Faultmate and general tools etc.

I think the poor reputation Landrover has, has snowballed a bit, to put it into perspective, i get 4X4 Action Magazine, watch the DVDs with my kids, the bloke who does the trips Roothy, has a 40 series Cruiser that is built with the latest/greatest after market bits available, its probably had over $100 000 spent on it in the last year or two and it breaks down almost every trip, now you cant get much more LOW tech than a 40 series.


Have a look at this link below, Facebook international P38 club, really good photos and custom mods, might help to turn your opinion 38° :D

Klub 38 Offroaders's Photos - Helder Balhé | Facebook (http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?pid=4677737&id=299411498983#!/klub38?v=photos)

[hoadie72]

Excuse my ignorance but what year did they convert to Bosch electrics?

And what would be a fairly typical annual repair bill be assuming you do next to no work yourself (at a specialist, not a dealer).

[PaulP38a]

Excuse my ignorance but what year did they convert to Bosch electrics?

And what would be a fairly typical annual repair bill be assuming you do next to no work yourself (at a specialist, not a dealer).

99 onwards use the BMW "Thor" engine management sytem which is better regarded than the earlier GEMS system. Might still be some Lucas bits lurking in there though.

When I got my first P38, I hadn't done my research and bought one with more than average problems... as I was wary of the apparent complexity of the engine and electronics I would take it to the local LR dealer or independent workshop at the first sign of trouble. In my first year I think I calculated that I spent almost $30k including running costs, loan repayments etc. About 15k of that was in repairs from memory.

Compare that to my current P38... in the past year I have spent about $4k in necessary repairs and parts, including a top-end engine refresh and replacing the head gaskets.

Just goes to show... if you have the right tools, contacts and attitude these beasties are not a big drain.

Never mind that I've spent another $10-15k in stuff that "I want" for the Rangie in the same period ;)

By comparison, my wife's Freelander which is a "tar baby" has cost around $1.5k in servicing.

Cheers, Paul.

[hoadie72]

Thanks Paul.

Owning a 20yo BMW I know it can be an expensive exercise maintaining them, so it's not a daily driver. I'd estimate it's cost me $12-15k in 4 years just in repairs. I don't consider that too bad, however I know I'll spend 3 grand a year given that old stuff just breaks.

[lgjonesxjs]

H'm had mine about 3 years now and apart from initial expense on the air suspension and hood lining hasn't been to bad. I love it and wouldn't have a Patrol if you paid me. A mate of mine has a brand new one and it sh_t it self 2 weeks ago and won't deliver any power, Nissan are still working on it.
On another note I have to spend some money on my P38 now cos I rolled it last WE off road at Mudgee, slow speed so not to bad but still needs doors, guards and the edge of the roof. Oh well off to trawl through the adds in the market place.

cheers

[adm333]

Any negativity you sense is mostly people trying to inform you of what you might expect.

Its better to go in with eyes wide open, then eyes wide shut.

From my perspective, everything that happens with my P38 is TOTALLY WORTH IT, considering the luxury, ride and capability of it.

Good luck