200TDi Build

[garryseries3]

http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/IMG_7976.jpg
Well there are some 200 Tdi builds on here so not sure how this one will fair, mine a series 3 shorty, which will get a stage 1 front axel and as for the rear one not sure yet. I do have the stage one rear salisbury and also a Rang Rover differential. while the Salsibury is bomb proof I would like to avoid engineering certification complexities and alterations. I have been informed that the 3.54 differentials having thicker teeth do stand up better than their finer lobed 4.11 cousins. This being espeacially so in a SWB variant which is lighter and thus placing less load on the teeth. Thoughts appreciated I am not going to thrash it hard but i will be driving it.

I have a Torro overdrive and rebuilt gearbox or the choice of a high speed transfer case also with a rebuilt gearbox. It seems you end up with much the same ratio in top gear it seems and as for longevity the Torro overdrive are fare better than than a Fairly it seems. Which one should I use am not sure so hoping some people could assist with advise on the pros and cons of putting in one or the other. Will run 10.5 x 15 Game rims I just like the look of them on shortys, it gives them a bit of bull doggy squatness.

Added to this mix is this
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/ a VNT Garrett turbo, this is the same one as fitted to the 2.8 Brazian engines so I expect it to add a bit more to the low to mid range torque.
I have pondered the Stage 1 3" brakes but wondered if the 11" rears on the LWB fitted both front and rear would suffice. My concern with fitting the 3" drums up front is the in a SWB the wheels are just to close and the SWB so light (c.f LWB)that the front will lock up consistantly. Thoughts on this would be go, I do like to stop safely.

As for the suspension I have got a set of parabolics which I had on a previous car these in a shorty are great, makes the ride so much more comfortable. As for the body not sure likely to end up with anything as I have a station wagion body, ute body, ute rag top and a full hoop set for a convertabl. But first thought it best to get the mechanicals down.
So that about it for now that I can think of, any thoughts greatly appreciated any oversights thankfully excepted to making it a good daily driver. here one last photo of how it sits in the chassis.
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/IMG_7973.jpg

[NiteMare]

i've fitted the 200tdi in my 88" bitsa with the standard turbo/manifold set up, modified the radiator panel to carry the discovery radiator and intercooler, fitted disco 3.54 diffs and a fairey overdrive along with 7.50x16 Super All Grips (potential for 90mph with this gearing)....

i'm still running the standard 10" single line non servo'd brakes at present but i do have a dual line servo set up sat on the shelf ready for when i hunt down a rear 109" axle to rob the backplates and drums off ....

i'll be leaving the standard rear drums and slave cylinders on my rear axle as i feel there's enough braking power there due to the rear being so light and just fitting the 109" parts to my front axle (11" single leading shoes) which with the servo assistance i feel should give more than enough braking power ....

the reason(s) i'm going this way is that my 88" won't have increased in weight by much if any so shouldn't really need a brake upgrade if driven as a landy was originally designed to be driven (i've been driving on the 10" fitment for about 15months now)...

the second reason for not upgrading any higher is that the final limitation to your stopping power is the traction your tyres will have on the surface (no matter how good your brakes are, if the tyres don't grip you won't stop any faster) ....

the only downside (?) with having a more powerful engine is you can maintain a higher travelling speed which will increase your braking distance which means you need to maintain a greater braking distance between yourself and anything in front (always look and think ahead)....

i've no idea about Ashcroft high ratio transfer gears as i've not used them, the only thing i've heard is that they are the better option rather than fitting 3.54 diffs due to keeping your low ratio gearing nice and low for offroad exercises....

my Bitsa is my first landrover and i've only owned it about 20 months so i'm no expert, this is just my thoughts and present day experiences (my disclaimer because i'm no expert :p )

my next build i'm starting is my '65 109" van bodied 2a, going to be getting a 200tdi with 300tdi manifolds/turbo, 4.3:1 diffs (lower ratio for towing) and overdrive, just finished repairing the replacement bulkhead so it'll be a while before i'm driving that one

[garryseries3]

i've fitted the 200tdi in my 88" bitsa with the standard turbo/manifold set up, modified the radiator panel to carry the discovery radiator and intercooler, fitted disco 3.54 diffs and a fairey overdrive along with 7.50x16 Super All Grips (potential for 90mph with this gearing)....

i'm still running the standard 10" single line non servo'd brakes at present but i do have a dual line servo set up sat on the shelf ready for when i hunt down a rear 109" axle to rob the backplates and drums off ....

i'll be leaving the standard rear drums and slave cylinders on my rear axle as i feel there's enough braking power there due to the rear being so light and just fitting the 109" parts to my front axle (11" single leading shoes) which with the servo assistance i feel should give more than enough braking power ....


the reason(s) i'm going this way is that my 88" won't have increased in weight by much if any so shouldn't really need a brake upgrade if driven as a landy was originally designed to be driven (i've been driving on the 10" fitment for about 15months now)...

the second reason for not upgrading any higher is that the final limitation to your stopping power is the traction your tyres will have on the surface (no matter how good your brakes are, if the tyres don't grip you won't stop any faster) ....

the only downside (?) with having a more powerful engine is you can maintain a higher travelling speed which will increase your braking distance which means you need to maintain a greater braking distance between yourself and anything in front (always look and think ahead)....

Read your post good points made regarding the braking, I have the option of quiet a few different setups, so will see what people thoughts are I think boosted for sure but as for the configuration not so sure.

[Muckinhell]

So how has the conversion gone so far as in the motor sitting in the mounts etc and how is the room going to be around the turbo???

I may be interested in what ever is left after you decide wich gearing road you will take too.

[chazza]

...my next build i'm starting is my '65 109" van bodied 2a, going to be getting a 200tdi with 300tdi manifolds/turbo, ...

Tell me more about the 300tdi manifold NiteMare.

I have heard that it fits the 200tdi head - does it also solve the clearance with the chassis problem?

I have a 200 tdi engine for my S3, so it would be nice to know all of the options,

Cheers Charlie

[garryseries3]

So how has the conversion gone so far as in the motor sitting in the mounts etc and how is the room going to be around the turbo???

I may be interested in what ever is left after you decide wich gearing road you will take too.As far as the motor sitting in the chassis it is fine there are two locating points for the engine mount. Use the front ones,
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/IMG_7975.jpg
just remember to bolt the brackets and mounts on the injector side to the block first or you will not get the mount on easily.
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/IMG_7974.jpg
Or at least I had great issues otherwise the engine sits like it is suppose to be there.

Had to remove a locating plug and 1 stud also on the fly wheel housing, then drill and tap treads for four new studs. I did have to put 4 High Tensile bolts on the bottom of the flywheel housing and these were internal hex head ones which were counter sunk into the Flywheel housing. Best to fit up the gearbox and motor then drill the tapped holes as you are more likely to get better holes to tap. All up about 2-3 hours labour including and she was ready to bolt up.

[garryseries3]

As for the turbo at first attempt I was cussing the turbo setup as the exhaust was going to have to do a 180 degree turn the exit down the side of the chassis. The outlet was facing toward the quarter panel and just to top it off the air inlet was two thirds covered by the PS foot well. After a cuppa and a bit of contemplation the light came on, pivot it around and see what can be achieved. Luckily these turbo are a three bolt exhaust flange with the holes spaced equally apart, so it was that I pivoted it one third a turn and then spun the air intake around till it looked right.
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/IMG_7971.jpg

So this is the rough in of the turbo fitment exhuast points down wards, the air outlet points to front and the air inlet up and towards the firewall.
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/IMG_7972.jpg

[NiteMare]

this is both of the 300 manifolds bolted to my 200Tdi engine, make sure you get the oil lines and adaptors as you need to mix and match the connections..
you also need the longer studs that the 300 uses as the mounting faces are thicker...
get the 300 dipstick and tube in case it will fit your engine block, i had to reuse the 200 dipstick and tube and carefully rebend the tube to fit round the turbo...
i've also got the 300 intercooler which has the one port in a different place and apparently eases fitment...
this mix of parts has been done quite a few times in this country to get the engine into the 109 chassis without cutting a scoop into it, my engine is still sat on the floor as i've only just finished repairing my spare bulkhead which now needs media blasting and painting before i pull Big Ears apart

anyway here's the poor quality picture
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/826.jpg

another thing to beware of in the 88" chassis is the front crank pulley can strike the axle tube on heavy landings and chip chunks out of it if you have the cast iron pulley, which i expect would eventually damage the crank
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/881.jpg

i put 3.5 mm thick spacers/washers above and below the engine mounting rubbers after i found that damage giving a 7mm lift to the engine, i also put my pulley in the lathe and completely removed the rear Vee, i also turned a couple of MM off the front belt lip, since these modifications i've had no evidence of striking
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/882.jpg


you can also fit the standard Series alternator mount straight to the 200 engine block which with a 32mm thick spacer between the block and mount will allow you to fit a 200tdi alternator, it still doesn't line up with the engine pulley at that so i fitted a double pulley on the alternator and "bob's your mothers brother", this gave me the required space for induction and cooling pipes at the top of the engine in my 88", i will be attempting to fit the alt' on the stock aluminium casting in my 109 in the hope that i won't be dunking it quite so often when "greenlaning" (unsurfaced roads) or in "pay and play" pits, i killed 3 alt's in about 12 months thru dirt and water getting in them

anyway ask away and i'll help if i can

[garryseries3]

i put 3.5 mm thick spacers/washers above and below the engine mounting rubbers after i found that damage giving a 7mm lift to the engine, i also put my pulley in the lathe and completely removed the rear Vee, i also turned a couple of MM off the front belt lip
ask away and i'll help if i can

UMM that one I had not considered do you think extended shackles would do the the job if using parabolics they generally add about 50mm.

[NiteMare]

i doubt i would use "extended shackles" as that may alter the diff angle too much and destroy UJ's on a regular basis, if anything the most i would go is standard 109 shackles as they are only 1/2" longer (by memory) extended shackles were designed to go with the extended dumb irons on 1 ton and military "combat" chassis...

the thing to possibly consider is that parabolics "may" flex further upwards (i dunno) than standard leaves so i'd still keep an eye open for clashing

to be honest it still wouldn't hurt to put the pulley in a lathe for insurance against damage, it was only a short time turning it, just wear a mask as it comes off almost as dust being cast iron

by the way, don't take anything i say as the only way and 100% accurate, i've only had Land Rovers about 20 months so i'm only learning myself, i have experimented quite a bit and also done quite a bit of research when doing my conversion, i'm a reasonably competent spannerman but i'm not formally trained (built almost everything from mopeds to HGV's in the past tho), most of my skills are self taught as and when i've had the desire or need to learn them

[garryseries3]

i doubt i would use "extended shackles" as that may alter the diff angle too much and destroy UJ's on a regular basis, if anything the most i would go is standard 109 shackles as they are only 1/2" longer (by memory) extended shackles were designed to go with the extended dumb irons on 1 ton and military "combat" chassis...

the thing to possibly consider is that parabolics "may" flex further upwards (i dunno) than standard leaves so i'd still keep an eye open for clashing

to be honest it still wouldn't hurt to put the pulley in a lathe for insurance against damage, it was only a short time turning it, just wear a mask as it comes off almost as dust being cast iron

Thanks for that will stick that on my to do list better gett a couple of items off it to keep moving forward.
Garry

[NiteMare]

by the way, don't take anything i say as the only way and 100% accurate, i've only had Land Rovers about 20 months so i'm only learning myself, i have experimented quite a bit and also done quite a bit of research when doing my conversion, i'm a reasonably competent spannerman but i'm not formally trained (built almost everything from mopeds to HGV's in the past tho), most of my skills are self taught as and when i've had the desire or need to learn them

you replied whilst i was editting, so i figure i best quote my edit to keep things nice and clear

Cheers
Pete

[garryseries3]

you replied whilst i was editting, so i figure i best quote my edit to keep things nice and clear

Cheers
Pete

Hey Pete
we are been cut from the same block if thats your back ground, taken the same path so I hear you, its all good, goodnight from Oz Gazz

[garryseries3]

Well back into this project again have finally started the mounting of the intercooler and radiator setup. Had panels folded up so I could keep the original radiator and fit the intercooler in front. So far this has gone pretty well together as invisaged an few minor things to tweek prior to welding the panel up Heres an image of it http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/0012.jpg. and one from the top
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/0052.jpg.
Am concerned about fixing the intercooler so that it does not fatigue, worried if I fix it off rigidly it will crack in the future any advise apreciated. So far I have not made comitment in this area yet there are 2 holes top and bottom, there was a pair of rubbermounts on the bottom which could be reused but would like to see and hear others opinions .
Kindest regards
Garry

[jerryd]

Following this thread with great interest as it's something I'd like to do one day in the not too distant future ;)
By installing the 200tdi motor, does it make the "Series Landrover" more of a modern tourer ?? This is what my intentions will be, to create a reliable and economical vehicle that can be used.

I see in the "markets" there is a Nissan ED33 engine + box for sale, would this be an equivalent option instead of a 200tdi ?? Or would this motor make the Series sound like an Isuzu ?? :wasntme:

This will be a new project for me and it's something I'm not an expert in, so all advice gratefully received.

[NiteMare]

i've no idea about your Nissan motor and how easy or difficult it would be to fit, i'd expect at least the need for an adaptor between the Series gearbox and flywheel housing along with modified engine mounts and possibly a flywheel modification, so that engine swap would be a case of looking around the web to see if anyone else has done it and the sort of problems/costs encountered...

the reason for mentioning adaptors to the Series box is that i expect the nissan box will be quite a bit longer than the old landy box ( the few japs i've worked on have been) which would in all probability put the gearshift trying to come up somewhere thru the middle seat area, then there'd be the problem of prop lengths and matching flanges plus what would your handbrake be attached to ?? and would you be cutting out crossmembers and resiting them to allow the gearbox in ??

[garryseries3]

Following this thread with great interest as it's something I'd like to do one day in the not too distant future ;)
By installing the 200tdi motor, does it make the "Series Landrover" more of a modern tourer ?? This is what my intentions will be, to create a reliable and economical vehicle that can be used.

I see in the "markets" there is a Nissan ED33 engine + box for sale, would this be an equivalent option instead of a 200tdi ?? Or would this motor make the Series sound like an Isuzu ?? :wasntme:

This will be a new project for me and it's something I'm not an expert in, so all advice gratefully received.

The thing I liked about the 200 Tdi was the ease of fitting it there no adaptors no new engine mounts it would have to be the easiest motor swap you could expect to do. My reason for doing it was to make a more modern tourer/ daily driver. You have to remember this is still a series and as such the rest of the car is still a series also. I do not want to go over board cost wise otherwise I would just get a defender for what you can pick up one for now. Mind you, you can not get a 90 county here and if you can they are a bit to buy. About your engine I am just not sure, as nitemare said so many options to consider here, the KISS principle is the best to follow with these sort of projects the more complex the adaptions the more time and more costs and it is still a series at the end of the day. Still a great little car so don't get me wrong but you could spend up to 20K sourcing another motor then box and making it fit then fitting better brakes suspension seats etc. etc.

There a red Series on Ebay at the moment he wants $9800 for it, nice little car and he is having issues moving it, I nearly bought it just to drop my 200 Tdi into and take a short cut on this project as every thing else is done that I intend to do for this conversion. In the end it is still around what it will cost me to get this project to completion but the saving in time is attractive, the cost is really a bit much for what it is, a non standard series in very good condition. From my experience a stock vehicle unmolested will always fetch far better prices than one that has been converted. Good original examples get harder and harder to find while there are plenty of altered ones around. So as such my Game will always be a stock vehicle even though I have spent a great deal of time contempting dropping the 200Tdi into it.

[jeebuz]

The girlfriend bought an 88 on the weekend, which the mechanic said, "bin the motor", I have a 200TDi freshly rebuilt (8000k's ago) with a disco 5 speed and transfer case (MY93) (yet to be rebuilt) sitting in the driveway, (work bought me a shiny new 130 deefer and "chugalugs the disco" is sitting there with me wondering what to do with it).
So to clarify this thread, rip out old 2.25 petrol, bolt in 200TDi,
this done by removing locator pins and bolt to the old gear box, machine off the second pulley guides. A bit of fiddling with the alternator and pipe work for the intercooler / turbo and presto, 200TDi with 4 speed in 88' (Which I think is going to be "Bertie the Blap mobile"?)

It seems far too simple.
Have you guys looked at, maybe i missed the posts. putting the disco box and case into the 88/109?

Cheers, she wants it done in July (gulp)

MB

[NiteMare]

a disco box is that long that you'll probably bolt the rear axle straight to the output flange

but 200tdi engine drop in place a doddle, in the 88 they fit really easily just as they come out of the donor

my first took me 3.5 days from start to finish working on my own and figuring a few things out for myself, that was a quick and dirty fitting which has been really reliable apart from a cambelt snapping (3 bent pushrods and a new cambelt kit saw me back on the road)

save the disco diffs if they're 10 spline they give it good road legs, mine with overdrive and 3.54 easily sits at motorway speeds

i'm doing a slower build of a 109 with 200 engine, 300 turbo and td5 intercooler in the "other engines" section which i'm very close to finished

[jeebuz]

Bugger about the box. she did want 5 speed. oh well. I guess i will have to chase up an overdrive.
With the diffs (they really really need a rebuild, half the reason its becoming a donor) is it replace the centres with the new ones and that's about that? or engineer them for leaves??

[NiteMare]

sorry about the diff confusion, i'm not really sure what you upside down folks :p call diffs but here in England it's the piece with the mechanicals that bolts into the centre of the axle casing (contains the crownwheel and pinion etc)...

these are easily swapped into the Series axle tubes/cases as long as they accept 10 spline halfshafts

to swap the front one all i did was unbolt the swivels from the axle tube and carefully pull them a couple of inches out and then balance them on a pair of axle stands whilst i pulled the old diff and fitted the new one, to seal the swivels back to the axle i just ran a little silicone round the mating face before sliding it back into place

a picture (click to enlarge)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/06/606.jpg

[jeebuz]

My interpretation of diff is the whole lot is a diff, the gearing is the diff centre.
Axles are the drive bits, etc.
I know what i mean by diffs, but reading other threads it certainly becomes hazy. :D

It currently has 16x7.5" michelin XML's (31" roughly) and its now getting a 31% overdrive transfer case.
Currently sitting at 100kp/h on my disco steel rims (235/65? 16) its 3150rpm.
add bigger tyres again and overdrive it should sit comfortably on 110kp/h with no problems, at a reasonable RPM.
In saying that the bigger 16x7.5's might be a bit big without the extra oomph of the turbo, We will see.

[garryseries3]

Well time has past and its been a while since this project has moved. I have decided to put a set of County and Defender panel on it so as to at lest give it a more modern look. Also its not getting the new paint job make over, just no time at present and really time at the moment is lacking so its function before form. http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/DSC00324.jpg
I have had a couple of issues to resolve so I hope anyone who has done this conversion can help Rear ball Joint A Frame us out.
Problem 1.
The lower radiator hose
http://i612.photobucket.com/albums/tt206/garryseries3/DSC00322.jpg
There seems little room between the engine water inlet on the bottom of the motor and diff, wondering if anyone has found a suitable hose that tucks and turns up to allow plenty of clearance from the diff. The radiator is from a 6 cylinder series landy I will have to get the bottom radiator pipe movedas it presently is on the lower passager side of the radiator. Seemed like a lot of piping from one side of the radiator the to engine inlet. But if somehas has used this setup and found a pipe to fit let us know also. Otherwise the hose pickup on the radiator could either go on the drivers side or in the centre section to pickup the hose. Any thoughts appreciated.

[NiteMare]

in both of my 200tdi conversions i've used the 200tdi radiator, the bottom hose on both i made myself using chopped up hoses and short steel tube to connect them together, 6 jubilee clips on the first one and 4 on the second one, the difference is partly due to slightly different rad' locations and partly due to the hoses i could find around the local eurobox breakers

i've no pictures of my hoses but here's a couple of how i mounted my rad's

my 109
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1262.jpg


my 88" bitsa
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/35.jpg

if you follow this link Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (http://s259.photobucket.com/home/NiteMare_08/index) look for "my 1965 109" and "Zebedee" those are the two Series landrovers i've 200tdi'd which may or may not help you with ideas

[garryseries3]

Hi Nitemare photos are great wondering what hose did you end up using to clear the diff housing.


in both of my 200tdi conversions i've used the 200tdi radiator, the bottom hose on both i made myself using chopped up hoses and short steel tube to connect them together, 6 jubilee clips on the first one and 4 on the second one, the difference is partly due to slightly different rad' locations and partly due to the hoses i could find around the local eurobox breakers

i've no pictures of my hoses but here's a couple of how i mounted my rad's

my 109
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/03/1262.jpg


my 88" bitsa
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/09/35.jpg

if you follow this link Image hosting, free photo sharing & video sharing at Photobucket (http://s259.photobucket.com/home/NiteMare_08/index) look for "my 1965 109" and "Zebedee" those are the two Series landrovers i've 200tdi'd which may or may not help you with ideas

[NiteMare]

Hi Nitemare photos are great wondering what hose did you end up using to clear the diff housing.

as i said in my previous post, i cut up several hoses to make mine...

i found assorted hoses off jap and euroboxes of the correct diameter and just cut out sections of them to make my bends for the bottom hose and joined them with 1.5-2" long steel stubs (honda 750sohc exhaust downpipe i think) and good jubillee clips (ford use the best i've found) ...

i've no idea what the hoses came off to make the top hose on my bitsa but on my 109 i used two Series top hoses and a Series thermostat housing ...

that's about as much help as i can give, from here on you'll have to be creative :eek: :D

[garryseries3]

as i said in my previous post, i cut up several hoses to make mine...

i found assorted hoses off jap and euroboxes of the correct diameter and just cut out sections of them to make my bends for the bottom hose and joined them with 1.5-2" long steel stubs (honda 750sohc exhaust downpipe i think) and good jubillee clips (ford use the best i've found) ...

i've no idea what the hoses came off to make the top hose on my bitsa but on my 109 i used two Series top hoses and a Series thermostat housing ...

that's about as much help as i can give, from here on you'll have to be creative :eek: :D

Thanks Nitemare Looks like its a trip off to the spare shop and see what I can find.

[NiteMare]

go round your local autobreakers/scrapyards they often just cut the hoses so they can tear the engine out quickly, scrounge all the bits off the engines sat on the floor, you might get given them but at worst will only cost a couple of quid and while you're at it take a 1/4 drive socket set and a pair of pipe grips to remove all the clips you can as the cost of decent ones mounts up quickly...

cheap jubillee clips are false economy as they can't be tightened decently before they slip, ford ones ARE the best, i think they have a 7mm hex head (take 6 and 8mm sockets as well) and are stainless i think, i haven't had a hose leak since i built my 88" over two years ago