options for springs

[5teve]

Hi Guys

Need new springs on the 110, mainly as the fronts have sagged but also to help the TF +2 shocks i have put in.

I'm looking for 30-40mm lift. Have a 27kg ally bar on the front and 8mm steel steering guard too. At the rear i have 127l tank, will have drawers shortly and tow a boat with about 200kg nose weight.

anything on the front will help the ride as the progressive section of the current springs has closed... :(

I have 3 options...

Kings - KRFR-03 at the front and KLRR-05 at the rear decent price available a stones throw away from work.

Dobinsons - C51-018 at the front and C51-019 at the rear good price again and reasonable postage on top.

LR Automotive - Reds for front (180 / 16.5) and orange green (320 / 16.8) hear good things about these guys but postage at $88 is a killer..

Which way do i jump?

Steve

[TimNZ]

Hi 5teve, I have a set of LRA "pink" front springs that I brought for my last 110, but I can't fit them to my new car due to warranty issued. They kept my old car level with a steel ARB bar and winch on the front. You're welcome to try them and see if they'll do the job for you.

Cheers,

[isuzu110]

I'm running dobinson C51-017 and C51-019 springs from suspension stuff and I'm happy with them. I do run poly airs in the rear as I tow as well.

[5teve]

Hi 5teve, I have a set of LRA "pink" front springs that I brought for my last 110, but I can't fit them to my new car due to warranty issued. They kept my old car level with a steel ARB bar and winch on the front. You're welcome to try them and see if they'll do the job for you.

Cheers,

Thanks Tim appreciate it. I was trying to get a small lift to match the TF +2 shocks i have to stop them from bottoming out. so was going for new springs all round.. ah.. LRA are Les richmond arent they.. ding.. just got it.. I'll have a look at the rating and let you know.. i'm assuming they would give a bit of lift?


I'm running dobinson C51-017 and C51-019 springs from suspension stuff and I'm happy with them. I do run poly airs in the rear as I tow as well.

Thanks for that... they seem to know there stuff there. I was also suggested by Ape suspension to go standard ratings (with a lift) and then consider polyairs at the rear. Thing is with camping gear and the boat attached.. the standard rears hardly sag at all... so i'm not sure i would need the polyairs.. just yet!

Thanks guys... more opinions welcome!

Steve

[Allan]

Hi Guys

Need new springs on the 110, mainly as the fronts have sagged but also to help the TF +2 shocks i have put in.

I'm looking for 30-40mm lift. Have a 27kg ally bar on the front and 8mm steel steering guard too. At the rear i have 127l tank, will have drawers shortly and tow a boat with about 200kg nose weight.

anything on the front will help the ride as the progressive section of the current springs has closed... :(

I have 3 options...

Kings - KRFR-03 at the front and KLRR-05 at the rear decent price available a stones throw away from work.

Dobinsons - C51-018 at the front and C51-019 at the rear good price again and reasonable postage on top.

LR Automotive - Reds for front (180 / 16.5) and orange green (320 / 16.8) hear good things about these guys but postage at $88 is a killer..

Which way do i jump?

Steve

Got 130 fronts on mine and very happy with the result. Best way to go imho. I think I will need bags on the rear with draws an slide out fridge kit, I'm shocked at how heavy they are. While on this point, who in Perth is the person to contact re air bags for the rear end.

Allan

[5teve]

Got 130 fronts on mine and very happy with the result. Best way to go imho. I think I will need bags on the rear with draws an slide out fridge kit, I'm shocked at how heavy they are. While on this point, who in Perth is the person to contact re air bags for the rear end.

Allan

Thanks Allan, if i remember right your running standard height arent you? so the 130 fronts will give a standard height for yours with winch and bar etc?

Regarding the drawers, i'm not expecting them to be too heavy as i'm looking at maybe 12-16mm ply to make them out of.. not a steel framed drawer system. by the time i've filled them with crap i'm sure they will be tho!

When i was talking to APE suspension he was surprised that the deefer didnt sag much with the boat on.. but mentioned airbags.. and mentioned its best to fit them early on in a new springs life before it gets too settled or you overload it and cause them to sag...so maybe have a word with him... very helpful and takes time to explain things. They are in Landsdale next to bills machinery

Thanks

Steve

[TimNZ]

Thanks Tim appreciate it. I was trying to get a small lift to match the TF +2 shocks i have to stop them from bottoming out. so was going for new springs all round.. ah.. LRA are Les richmond arent they.. ding.. just got it.. I'll have a look at the rating and let you know.. i'm assuming they would give a bit of lift?

Steve

Hi 5teve, yeah, Les Richmond Automotive sorry! Without a winch hanging over the front they should give you about 25mm of lift. If you are going to the trouble of changing the front springs etc have a look at fitting the rubberised shock tower spring mounts from the D2 at the same time (RBC100111).

Expedition Exchange Incorporated :: Suspension :: Land Rover Genuine Parts Rubberized Shock Tower Securing Ring (RBC100111) (http://www.expeditionexchange.com/cart/product.php?productid=18673)

Cheers,

[dullbird]

Steve....I have HD land rover springs in the front of the puma...and airbags in the back with the TF's I have also got some extended bump stops for the rear to go on...and I'm looking for a means to tie the springs in...at the moment I think with the HD on the front and the spring rate on the back we wont bottom out as long as we are not silly...however mine is only a touring car not an off road car (as in the rough stuff) my biggest thing is I dont want the springs to dislocate as it gives room for the air bag plates to come out.

[Allan]

Steve....I have HD land rover springs in the front of the puma...and airbags in the back with the TF's I have also got some extended bump stops for the rear to go on...and I'm looking for a means to tie the springs in...at the moment I think with the HD on the front and the spring rate on the back we wont bottom out as long as we are not silly...however mine is only a touring car not an off road car (as in the rough stuff) my biggest thing is I dont want the springs to dislocate as it gives room for the air bag plates to come out.

Hi dullbird, are you running +2 shocks on the rear of your puma? My reason for asking is I am and want to use air bags on an upcoming Kimberly trip. Have you come up with any ideas regarding the spring dislocation?

Allan

[dullbird]

Yes I do and no I haven't its not easy with the bags involved purely because the retaining plates for the bags block any sort of spring retention on the top part of thhe spring...

If I can't come up with an idea for the cape I may have to simply put shorter shocks in..I didn't fit these shocks for there articulation properties i fitted them to try the heavy load capablilties in rougher conditions

[Allan]

I changed mine for both reasons, the OME had little down travel so tried the TF's and happy with them re travel and ride both with and without a load. Ive been recently told that the 110 doesn't dislocate enough with only +2 inch shocks to worry about but I would not be a happy camper in the Kimberleys to find that this a wrong and incorrect ststement. May have to do likewise, change to standard travel.

Allan

[roverrescue]

DB and Allan,

To retain the rear axle in order to protect Polyairs etal run some HD round webbing of appropriate length from one of the rear shockie bolts (inside chassis rail) down to the inboard side of the trailing arm to axle bolt. Drill through the webbing use panel washers each side and bolt them on.

Steve

[lambrover]

Steve, if your shocks are bottoming out now with the sagged springs, fitting lifted springs want change the fact that the shocks can still bottom out, it makes it harder to bottom out but to fix it you need to raise the shock tower or lower the bump stop

[dullbird]

I changed mine for both reasons, the OME had little down travel so tried the TF's and happy with them re travel and ride both with and without a load.
Ive been recently told that the 110 doesn't dislocate enough with only +2 inch shocks to worry about but I would not be a happy camper in the Kimberleys to find that this a wrong and incorrect ststement. May have to do likewise, change to standard travel.

Allan


Rubbish...the 110 dislocates enough that you really need relocation cones to relocate the spring otherwise the spring when traveling back to position will get stuck on the hanger....

but more annoyingly then that and if the spring does reseat or you reseat it you will find that the anti roll bar knuckles over on its self lifting the body of the car up on one side....I know because it has happened to me.

If you look at the photo's in the TF write up I did you can see a picture that I took of the dislocating of the spring.

[Allan]

Thanks for that dullbird, I thought it an odd bit of advice at the time. I haven't been using the Puma much off road lately but need it right for upcoming trip.

Allan

[rick130]

Steve, if your shocks are bottoming out now with the sagged springs, fitting lifted springs want change the fact that the shocks can still bottom out, it makes it harder to bottom out but to fix it you need to raise the shock tower or lower the bump stop

Yep, or in fact they'll still bottom out and stuff the shocks anyway....

I've had to rebuild two sets of Koni's because of this, you need to allow at least 20mm compression of the bump stop when working out your shock location. It's surprising how far that big chunk of rubber compresses.
You just can't bang a longer shock in without redoing shock mount location on the front, although you'll get away with it to a small degree on the rear.

And I run LRA 'purple' springs (17" free length, 220lb/in) that replaced the stock 225lb/in 130 HD springs and my bump stops are still polished from on road driving, let alone anything off road. ;)

That initially gave me 117/114mm between the bump stops, it's something closer to 105/100mm these days (about six years later)

Oh, I forgot to add that you can't run the OE anti-roll bar on the front with longer dampers, the front driveshaft crashes into it in droop, and as Dullbird points out the ARB drop links reverse on you too, which is a PITA.
You will also need eitehr slightly longer brake hoses, or some bodgy the chassis mount of the flex line to finagle some extra flex in the line.
I just made up, err, acquired some braided hoses front and rear.

[5teve]

Thanks for your reply guys... appreciate it.

The reason i have bottomed the shocks (or so i think) out at the moment is because the front springs have sagged nearly 50mm, so i have now gone with (but not fitted) the kings as they were available at 'the right price' i'm pretty sure the oem ones would of been close to bottoming. i have 56 lhs 50 rhs at the front between bump stops..

I was thinking about getting longer bump stops as i beleive DB was thinking, but im not sure about the closed length of the Terrafirma big bores over the OEM.. anyone got that detail? maybe i should look when i change the springs!

with new springs making it harder to hit the bump stop will do for now. its just too easy with the 50mm that i have to bottom them out.. (well it feels like it bottoming)

DB.. have you managed to bottom your TF big bores out yet?

Thanks again

Steve

[rick130]

Thanks for your reply guys... appreciate it.
[snip]

with new springs making it harder to hit the bump stop will do for now. its just too easy with the 50mm that i have to bottom them out.. (well it feels like it bottoming)

DB.. have you managed to bottom your TF big bores out yet?

Thanks again

Steve

Steve, I can't emphasise enough that a longer spring of a reasonable rate won't make it harder to hit the bump stop and bottom a shock out.
I hit the bump stops all the time and I'm running over 100mm between them.
The pads on the axle housing are polished !

When I measured up my shockies closed lengths and the bump stops I allowed 15mm compression of the stock bump stop before my Koni's went metal to metal.....
It wasn't enough :(

I had to order new foot valves, rebound adjusters, seals (obviously) and luckily the pressure tubes could just be flipped otherwise I would've needed two new shock absorbers.

It doesn't take long to pop out your shocks and measure them up, stock closed length is 328mm measured from the base of the pin to the base of the pin (open should be 550mm)
TLC 80 Series Konis roughly measure 370mm closed, so the towers need to be raised 19mm or so to prevent disaster.
I cheated and used a combination of different thickness bushes (half thickness on the damper body side) and only raised the towers 6mm to maximise droop, but that extra 6mm was critical.

OME TLC 80 Series dampers measure 354mm closed, and I believe work in a Land Rover without going metal to metal, so that might give you something to work on too.

Hopefully what you are feeling is bottoming into the bumps stops, our Patrol (standard ride height) has no where near the bump travel of the Defender and so crashes into bumps on the road hard that I sail over unperturbed in the Defender at faster speeds.

[5teve]

Steve, I can't emphasise enough that a longer spring of a reasonable rate won't make it harder to hit the bump stop and bottom a shock out.
I hit the bump stops all the time and I'm running over 100mm between them.
The pads on the axle housing are polished !

When I measured up my shockies closed lengths and the bump stops I allowed 15mm compression of the stock bump stop before my Koni's went metal to metal.....
It wasn't enough :(

I had to order new foot valves, rebound adjusters, seals (obviously) and luckily the pressure tubes could just be flipped otherwise I would've needed two new shock absorbers.

It doesn't take long to pop out your shocks and measure them up, stock closed length is 328mm measured from the base of the pin to the base of the pin (open should be 550mm)
TLC 80 Series Konis roughly measure 370mm closed, so the towers need to be raised 19mm or so to prevent disaster.
I cheated and used a combination of different thickness bushes (half thickness on the damper body side) and only raised the towers 6mm to maximise droop, but that extra 6mm was critical.

OME TLC 80 Series dampers measure 354mm closed, and I believe work in a Land Rover without going metal to metal, so that might give you something to work on too.

Hopefully what you are feeling is bottoming into the bumps stops, our Patrol (standard ride height) has no where near the bump travel of the Defender and so crashes into bumps on the road hard that I sail over unperturbed in the Defender at faster speeds.

Thanks Rick for taking the time to explain further.. and providing the measurements... i'll have a look when i do the springs and measure the shock length.

Its not a biggie if it is hitting the bumpstops to replace them with raised versions... but you are now making me think that maybe i did hit the bump stops rather than bottom the shocks.. measurements will tell!

May have chance to fit the springs this week (if i can get use of the forklift!) so will update you witht the lengths later on!

Any tips on replacing the springs? was going to disconnect shocks lift each end with the forklift supporting the axle with a jack... drop the axle down one side at a time and replace the spring... obviously watching the brake lines..

at the front i am going to replace the turret ring with the disco one.. rubber one... unless anyone thinks its a bad idea? someone on here recommended it.. but basically use the same method.

Thanks again guys

Steve

[frantic]

A Quick link from on here previously for shock lengths:
land rover shock specifications (http://members.shaw.ca/red90/shockinfo.html)

This will give you a guide to which shocks to fit that need modified mounting points and which ones you can get away with using either standard points or longer bump stops.

[disco2hse]

Sorry, side question here.


and tow a boat with about 200kg nose weight

When you say nose weight I assume you mean the weight on the tow ball? What's the max. tow ball weight on your 110? I know on the Disco it's 150kg with the LR removable tow bar.

[5teve]

The DII is 250kg as is the ARB bar that i have on the defender. The defender one is also rated to 4t with a pintle hook... the LR tow pack was removed to have the Longranger tank fitted.

Hope that helps?

Steve

[disco2hse]

My OEM Disco II tow bar is only rated for 150kg. Wanna see a photo of it? That was my question.

But, you've kind of answered my question. So your tow bar is rated for 250kg. OK.

[5teve]

thats interesting... as mine is the standard towbar on the D2... and that is plated for 250kg... wonder if they changed it at any point... mines a 2002.. with SLS if that makes any odds?

i know the d1 was 150kg...

Thanks

Steve

[disco2hse]

Mine is MY2004 (first registered 2005). The tow bar is LR branded.

Might be more to do with local licensing laws. While the DII can haul 4 tonnes it is only rated for 3.5.

Mine is a removable hitch, is yours?

edit: oh, yeah got SLS too.

[5teve]

When you say removeable i assume you mean the haymen reece type? in which case yes... it is.

Nowhere on my D2 bar does it say 4t... unlike the D1's i have seen.. its just 3.5t.. but deffo says 250kg... but i will check for sure later! :D

[disco2hse]

Hayman Reece type, but not HR made ;)

Annnyway. Sorry about the diversion. :D

[5teve]

Sorry forgot to check the stamping last night... was busy doing the springs...

and....


WOW! the defender feels great! it hasnt lifted much.. will measure later to see what it has gone too... but i have gained at least 2" at the front bumpstops... as the fronts were sagged... feels good on road and over bumps and no vibrations! hoorah!

out of interest the springs i took out had coloured paint on them. the rears being purple yellow and the fronts just yellow... are these standard LR spings?

Now waiting to get nagged at when Rach tries to climb in...

Steve

[rick130]

Sorry forgot to check the stamping last night... was busy doing the springs...

and....


WOW! the defender feels great! it hasnt lifted much.. will measure later to see what it has gone too... but i have gained at least 2" at the front bumpstops... as the fronts were sagged... feels good on road and over bumps and no vibrations! hoorah!

out of interest the springs i took out had coloured paint on them. the rears being purple yellow and the fronts just yellow... are these standard LR spings?

Now waiting to get nagged at when Rach tries to climb in...

Steve

Good to hear.

Here's the L/R spring codes land rover spring specifications (http://members.shaw.ca/jbarge/springinfo.html)