Heart Transplant Question

[Gibs]

Has anyone done a Heart Transplant (engine swap) to the GMC 6.5/6.7L V8 Diesel in a 110 at all ? I have only ever seen one done at a 4x4 show and yes it did fit with room to spare. As to what gearbox/TC they used I have no idea.

[Bearman]

Have seen one done with an LT95 behind it. Looked good, but very cluttered in the engine bay. Apparently it wasn't as good as the Isuzu offroad and suffered from overheating issues.

[one_iota]

Cousin John has installed a 6.5 in his County....however it is an unfinished project :(

Here is the link to the project. The photo links were lost in the last server crash.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/21228-cousin-johns-county-project-part-3-body.html

I'll see if I can dig up a few from my archives.

It fitted but with a 2" body lift.

The gearbox is an LT95.

A custom radiator was next on the list of big things to do.

As for comparisons with an Isuzu I can't comment apart from there is no way an Isuzu could sound as good as a V8.

[Gibs]

Mahn.
Thanks for the reply an link, very interesting read indeed, just a shame that the pic's were lost in the ether!

The reason I was wondering about the GMC V8 is I'm thinking of droping 1 into a 130 6x6. Thing's I needed to know was - how hard to do, what sort of box was used and what mods to the body/chassi were requried. Your thread pretty much covered them all. :)

The only thing I need to work out is what this Box/TC is called (pic below) as its what I need to use for the 6x6 conversion. I think its a Lt95 in front but not 100% sure.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/09/1600.jpg
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/%5BIMG%5Dhttp://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/Gibs/6x6gearbox1.jpg%5B/IMG%5D (http://i395.photobucket.com/albums/pp38/Gibs/6x6gearbox1.jpg)

[isuzutoo-eh]

Looks like an LT95 to me, with PTO drive ala Perentie.

[Gibs]

Thats what its off, a Perentie, I was thinking it was the LT95box, but I cant find the model N° for the High/Low PTO TC. I also can't find my old ADF Perentie Manual anywhere either and my memory aint as good as it use to be and the Model N° escapes me completely for the TC.

[Bearman]

Thats what its off, a Perentie, I was thinking it was the LT95box, but I cant find the model N° for the High/Low PTO TC. I also can't find my old ADF Perentie Manual anywhere either and my memory aint as good as it use to be and the Model N° escapes me completely for the TC.

G'day Gibs, My memory isn't as good as it used to be sometimes too. The whole gearbox/transfer case setup is called a LT95. Same setup as in the 4X4 Perentie with the addition of the rear axle drive output bolted on the rear (vacuum actuated ). Shoot me a pm if you need to know any numbers as I have an RPS for most of the 6X6.

[Gibs]

Thanks Brian, I will take you up on that offer for Part N°'s.
Yeah its the actual PTO bito that the old noggin has a blank spot with. In fact I cant even recal its trade name. Old age, ainit it fun. :lol:

[JDNSW]

As above, the LT95 is the combined gearbox/transfer case. This box was designed from the outset for a PTO for a powered trailer in the 101, and this PTO was used for the 6x6 Perentie and civilian 110s. They are pretty scarce outside of the Australian military (the powered trailer was not a howling success in practice!).

John

[Gibs]

If anyone has served in any armed forces they would know how much they love to name bits. Every unboltable bit is called something, even if there's no need! I do recall that we were told each bit of the drive chain was broken into several parts and thusly named somesuch or other. Gearbox was XXX, TC was XXX, PTO was XXX. Now I'm having to get use to the civi conventions on named bits. :)
So If I get a LT95 Box (this includes TC as I now understand it) will it or wont it also include the PTO bito. If not whats the actual Part/Model N°/name for the PTO? And where would one go to find said beasty?

Ohh as an aside, whats the standard Box/TC in a Diesel 130 atm ?

Mahn.
When you guys droped the GMC V8 in, did it need any conversion plate or mods to mate it to the Box ? I dont recall seeing anything about that in that thread of your's.
Thanks.

[isuzutoo-eh]

When you get an LT95, it will only be a gearbox and transfer case (in the one housing). The PTO/rear drive output for the third axle is a seperate unit that bolts on and is the rocking horse poo bit.

The box in the current 130 is the 'GFT MT 82' apparently. Not sure about transfer, which has a different ratio to previous LT230 versions.

[one_iota]

Mahn.
When you guys droped the GMC V8 in, did it need any conversion plate or mods to mate it to the Box ? I dont recall seeing anything about that in that thread of your's.
Thanks.

Yes.

There was a new bell housing to mate the motor to the gearbox. There may have been other mods but I'd have to ask John for the details.

[JDNSW]

Not to put too much of a dampener on the idea, but from what I seem to recall, those who have used this engine, whether in Landrovers or elsewhere, have not been entirely happy with the results.

To put it bluntly, the engine, it seems, looks a lot better on paper than it turns out to be in the metal! (Of course, I may be just remembering reading about poor experiences, and don't remember the positive ones!)

John

[TwoUp]

R380 bell housing from memory. Need to move clutch slave over to passenger side. New engine mounts. Need to cut for starter (get a delco starter motor and save the hassels). Need 4 core radiator at least, mine runs cool, recently through the Gibb and NT loaded with loaded trailer at about 110Km/Hr and only just got the temperature up just over 95. Ashcroft gears for the transfer case to bring the revs at 104Km/Hr down from 2845 to 1800rpm in top and about 2350ish in fourth gear. Use fourth for towing. Fuel usage is now about 13.5Ltr to 100Km but have had it up to 21Ltrs when I ran at 110Km/Hr in fourth loaded as above.

Highway very good,
Town very good,
Off road K'n good.:angel:

[rovercare]

Its an LT 95, you can buy an adaptor plate from Marks4wd to suit the chev pattern and engine mounts adaptors altough I'm not sure whether the diesel blocks are multi drilled for the small flywheel, I had a 6.2, now it was nicer to drive than an Isuzu, but that's about it, fuel economy sucked, overheating, ***** to work onas is to tight in the engine bay, they don't go that well, I won't be having another and will stick with the 4BD1's:D

With the Isuzu at 17psi I average 12.8L/100km's and the worst I get in the bush is 14.7, chev diesel on the other hand was 15-16L/100 and 22 in the bush:(

[Bearman]

Wouldn't it go nice with a 6BD1T mated to the LT95. Of course it would have to have the TRB intermediate shaft and you could still fit the rear axle output drive straight onto the back. You could still use the isuzu flywheel housing to mate the gearbox as I think the 6BD1 had the same bolt pattern on the rear of the motor - anyone confirm that?:o:o

[TwoUp]

The big V8 is as smooth as silk. It is a dumb motor and easy to work on. Ie the oil filter is vertical, Tdi motor persons would appreciate that. Easy. Fuel figures..... go figure, if you want good fuel figures then have a 300tdi, change that then power costs, this is a rational thing, you know before you go. Room in the engine bay? There is sweet FA regardless of model anyway. The V8 sits lower and does not comprimise the movement in the drivetrain. Thus is lowers the centre of gravity.

My vehicle does more regularly go to what most would say is hard off road. It also does extended trips and is a daily driver. I works very well. Over heating is an issue for any vehicle not engineered well, mine runs cool, so much in fact that I am thinking of means to deal with this. I have read that others have had issues without resolve. Try again!!

The V8 on the descent from Saddleback Ridge on ElQuestro Stn was run in low 3rd and it held the vehicle up well, no brakes. 2nd was too slow and 1st out of the question. On ascending I can choose a gear and be reliant and expectant that the vehicle will do the job wouthout issues.

Now the install is still very recent but I have done twenty thousand kilometers, mostly trips and off road and the least as a daily driver, due to seven recent weeks of escape. I can say it is reasonable to expect that motor to perform as well and be as reliant as it has been.

Please do not knock the motor if you have not had one that works well. This would be hear say.....

At 13.5 to the 100 I would say that there would be owners of standard Rovers that would be envious and do not have the grunt as I do. Rant well and truely over....


Regards,
PeterW

[rovercare]

Please do not knock the motor if you have not had one that works well. This would be hear say.....



I did approx 35,oookms in mine, heat problems are resolved in various manners, well built shrouds being the most common and porting the back's of inlet manifolds to relieve hotspots, I've also had alot of other converted land rovers, I hardly think any of my experiences are heresay;)

My 4BD1 with turbo used alot less fuel for marginally better! performance than the N/A 6.2 chev, so why have a 300tdi?:p

I will grant you engine braking, the Isuzu has nothing on the chev, but then 6.5 litres @22:1 is going to be superior than 3.9L@ 17:1:D

Like I said, I still believe a turboed Isuzu is a better result:)

[rovercare]

Wouldn't it go nice with a 6BD1T mated to the LT95. Of course it would have to have the TRB intermediate shaft and you could still fit the rear axle output drive straight onto the back. You could still use the isuzu flywheel housing to mate the gearbox as I think the 6BD1 had the same bolt pattern on the rear of the motor - anyone confirm that?:o:o

Could fit, would have to move the whole driveline backwards, utelise the space the air filter takes for the extra 2 cyls:D they are the same bolt pattern;)

[Bearman]

Thought so Matt, I believe ADF trialled the 6BD1 in the 6bys at one stage. Never did hear the outcome, maybe someone from RAEME knows......Dave (Blknight)???

[rovercare]

Thought so Matt, I believe ADF trialled the 6BD1 in the 6bys at one stage. Never did hear the outcome, maybe someone from RAEME knows......Dave (Blknight)???

I'd have to say it'd be awseome, with a big variable vane turbo and cooler:cool: she'd be heavy over the front though:D

[Bearman]

Wouldn't be a problem with the PS and the extra weight on the front would match the grip from the rear end. Awesome alright I reckon. If I had a 6X6 thats the way I would go, you can always mount the aircleaner elsewhere. And just imagine the torque you could tweak out of it WITH Isuzu longevity and reliability and no reliance on electronics:D:D

[Vern]

Good to see someone is happy with there Chev, i wasn't, in my opnion it was a gutless engine for its size. Hard to cool, not that economical.
Cost me around $15k to install (all myself) including the cost of a reco engine, and boy was i dissapointed. Only ever seen one other installed that didn't have any drama's, seen many that have.
IMHO the Isuzu 4BD1t leaves it for dead (except for engine brakeing;))

[Gibs]

What I see as my problem is this, The 130 6x6 will be around 20-22' long, weigh in at around 2.5-3Tonn Unladen and hopefully be able to carry 3-4Tonn on a FULL size Flat Tray I want to fit. I dont want a Turbo (never liked them) but have been thinking of a Blower though. It will also need to pull a 2.5Tonn~ trailer (loaded) and be able to do this all day long as it makes its own track.

Now I drive Trucks an Bus's for a living, Bus's atm. The thing I find in most of the heavy vech's I drive is that they are guttless as all. Just about every day I keep thinking I need more grunt and more gears (its a bus thing I swear). So the last thing I want is for my 6x6 to be a total wuss of a bush basher.
All the above to me says "Bigger Donk". I have driven the Isuzu Perentie 6x6 many times and while its engine was adaquate, it could have been better (IMHO). So basicaly I want the best Diesel Engine I can get and hopefully mate it to the best Gearbox/TC combo thats going but makes getting a 6x6 possible. That brings me to the question of , is the stock 130 Gearbox/TC a better box than the LT95, can the PTO unit be attached to the back end of the 130 Box ? Idealy the minimul amount of swaping parts would be the best outcome, but not if its going to deter performance and make the 6x6 impossible to do.
The other question I have is, it was mention before, that the PTO unit is/was a standed part for the FC101. Do I have this correct? Or was it an optional extra. If its a standed Part that is not used by FC101 owners, how hard would it be to make a blanking plate to fit the back of the TC and remove the PTO (and sell it to some one like...ohhh I dont know...me perhaps.. :) ).

I know I can just get a Bogie drive conversion made up for permante 4x4 rear wheel drive, but the option of being able to change how many axels are driven at any one time and being able to do this on the fly give far more flexability in how I can drive on an off road. So the exploration of ideas, combo's and whats available part wise, must all be given due thought.

[spudboy]

Gibs - sounds like you want a UniMog. Nice big 6.7L Diesel and a huge tray.

There were some mid 80's units for sale in Canberra a few weeks ago (ex-NZ army units). The guy selling them was after $60K-odd. Might be cheaper than doing an engine swap and dual axle build ...... :p

[Gibs]

Funny that you should mention the Mog. It was due to loading a Mog that I got a medical discharge (3 prolapse disks lower spine). Of all things it was a bloody mally root (boss wanted a bonfire at the end of the Ex...:( ). I have indeed considered the Mog, but I need the extra cabin space of a crew cab. There is only one UniMog Dealer in WA an he's in Bunbry (IIRC). The U5000 Series last time I looked has no Crew Cab version. I have also looked into the OKA. The new NT model has been improved a lot but after sales support is very limited Nation wide due to only one dealership (here in WA at Spearwood, its also where its made). They do have the option of Crew Cab an even the Multi Cab, but I am still worried that the engine is to small.

What also go's against both the Mog an the Oka is tray height. Due to my back injury and more to the point of how I got it, high trays are out of the question. Even the 130 tray will in some ways be a challenge for me. But its a far better option at this point in time.

[RichardK]

Have seen one done with an LT95 behind it. Looked good, but very cluttered in the engine bay. Apparently it wasn't as good as the Isuzu offroad and suffered from overheating issues.


A close friend did the swap and experienced the same problems, could never get over it and eventually sold the vehicle, admits it was a waste of money and he spent good money chasing bad to try to overcome the problem.

[TwoUp]

Gibs I have,
Now have to deal with some other posts here. This I will do with relish.

Not anyone has posted with a successful 6.5 upgrade. Why I do not know? It remains that others have posted on their failures and because they have or that "someone they know" has failed they bag the motor. Where is someonoe that has succeded in doing this modification to advise on the outcome. Similarly then persons go to another motor that you have not asked for. Why? Sheep run this way..........

Gibs,
The upgrade you mentioned is attainable. If you plan and do so then this is a good outcome. Towing as you mentioned is a breeze with this motor. Plan well and achieve the desired outcome.

I have mentioned previously that my motor runs cool. This is true and given where I am located and that I usually go further North (don't know why) as a general rule than I would suggest that this is a reasonable platform to work with. My fuel usage is real for you to use as a guide. The motor is fitted to a 98 Defender with the standard gearbox and Ascroft, fine, transfer case gears to reduce the revs.

As this thread is about a 6.5 heart transplant, I hope you accept this as a guide from someone that Has succeded in fitting a simple motor to a vehicle. Really it is not that hard.

Regards,
PeterW

[Gibs]

Thanks Peter, its always good to get a balance on these type of things. I too believe in the 5P's - Prior Planing Prevents Písspoor Performance. This is why I signed up here, to pick peoples noggins an get the good oil. Speaking of picking noggins, I hope when its time I can pick your's. :)

[frantic]

One quick suggestion, you where saying you are suffering from a back injury and the reason you want a D/C 130/ perentite is the height compared to a unimog or OKA. Have you considered installing a hydralic lift arm on the back(above No. plate or between cab and tray) of whatever vehicle you end up buying/building? This could be used with slings to load both your 6x6 or unimog and your trailer helping prevent further pain/injury.

P.S If you do go ahead with the 6.5 do a blog so we can see as i personally would like to see how well a 6.5 fits and how difficult it is.

[Vern]

Gibs I have,
Now have to deal with some other posts here. This I will do with relish.

Not anyone has posted with a successful 6.5 upgrade. Why I do not know? It remains that others have posted on their failures and because they have or that "someone they know" has failed they bag the motor. Where is someonoe that has succeded in doing this modification to advise on the outcome. Similarly then persons go to another motor that you have not asked for. Why? Sheep run this way..........

Gibs,
The upgrade you mentioned is attainable. If you plan and do so then this is a good outcome. Towing as you mentioned is a breeze with this motor. Plan well and achieve the desired outcome.

I have mentioned previously that my motor runs cool. This is true and given where I am located and that I usually go further North (don't know why) as a general rule than I would suggest that this is a reasonable platform to work with. My fuel usage is real for you to use as a guide. The motor is fitted to a 98 Defender with the standard gearbox and Ascroft, fine, transfer case gears to reduce the revs.

As this thread is about a 6.5 heart transplant, I hope you accept this as a guide from someone that Has succeded in fitting a simple motor to a vehicle. Really it is not that hard.

Regards,
PeterWWell here's my none success story. I purchased a 96 6.5 chev turbo engine (96,000k old), it had a damged bore due to injecter failure. So had a resleeve done, and had the motor rebuilt, new mechanical injecter pump(tweaked), reco injecters, new starter etc..Being a 96 model block, this is the engine to have, less prone to failures. it ran the serpintine belt water pump, dual thermostats etc..
Anyway i pulled my holden 336 stroker out (which was only 5000ks old) had the tubo 700 rebuilt to suit the Chev, with 6.5 chev governer, low stall converter etc.., dropped the chev in (its just a chev so bolted straight in almost, although it is bigblock size), cut and welded exhaust manifolds to make them fit, had an MQ patrol 4 core radiator modified to fit.
Got it running, had a few teething problems straight away (water pump gasket leaked) idled well, sounded awsome, off idle torque was fantastic, drove no different to the holden stroker, fuel economy was alot better aswell.
All was going ok, putting around town and all. Set off on a holiday and thing started getting hot, could only putt in it, any time you put the foot in it would get hot, and oil pressure would drop off. After weeks of frigging around, motor out off to engine shop, they pulled it down and couldn't find any problems with it, even stuck a new set of big end bearings in it just in case, and a new oil pump. New thermostats ($200:eek:) etc.. kept doing it, i spent months and months on it (and$$$$$) At this stage i was over it, performance was ok, economy ok, but nothing to right home about.
Finally fixed it with an 80mm thick 2 core aluminium radiater sho horned in there, at this stage i hated the thing and had learnt ALOT about these engines, particularly from the websites in the US.
The reason i went for this engine was IMO the 300tdi/Td5 was to small, 4bdi was to gutless (read all the carp from 4wd mags) and all the hype (advertising) on these chevs suckered me in.
From what i now know i think the success rate would be around 50%, some are real happy, some are not overly impressed but it works and for the money would never do it again, the others just cut there losses and started over (me).
IF you were to get a good engine and could cool it successfully then it would be good, not great but good.

Now for me, after driving one, an intercooled, boosted, isuzu 4bd1t, leaves it for dead, better to drive, better economy, and the feeling of reliability, how many isuzu conversions have failed?? none that i know of on this site.
I should have listened to John (Bush65) and done the isuzu instead, he's a very wise man:D
My 2c.


(p.s, this has been discussed on outerlimits a fair bit aswell)

[rovercare]

Gibs I have,
Now have to deal with some other posts here. This I will do with relish.

Not anyone has posted with a successful 6.5 upgrade. Why I do not know?

Regards,
PeterW

Peter, Mine was succesful, I bought it with the chev diesel, fixed all the niggles and turned it into a reliable unit, it just doesn't change the fact it was fuel hungry and lacklustre in the performance stakes

Vern's the same, even the fella who crossed the simpson with us last year, who spent all that coin with Linquip on his GU, which was a reliable unit was far from impressed with the performance and economy, A chipped 1HD-FTE towing a Kimberely camper easily flogged this thing performance wise and he had no trailer

Baaa, baaaa black sheep:)

[lambrover]

Ha Vern do you think that the fact that your fuel pump was tweaked had somthing to do with the heating problems.

As you probably know adding fuel creates heat, my thinking is that with standard fuel metering the cooling system is able to keep up, but not able to with the fueling turned up and driven hard. Just a thought

[Vern]

nah i even had the pump set back to original, as i said, once i'd shoehorned the aluminium radiator in it was all ok, i've seen a couple of defenders with them in with the biggest 4 core copper radiator in them that overheated, on was even running 2 radiators (remote on the back)(both of these where from brunswick deisel), was fine for putting around but not so good under load. Matts would boil itself aswell in the bush.
Have to remember that this is a big block chev, which from factory would have ran a big radiator, probably nearly twice the size of what Rover has to offer. .

[Gibs]

So basicaly the biggest problem is one of Cooling - eg Needs a Big Arsed Radiator. Thats something I have overcome before.
I'm after Nm, an lots of it. A V type engine will always out do a straight for Nm's given same size Cubic inch. Go up in CI and from Straight to a V, by all rights should give a hughe boost to Nm's. I suppose I could always look at a V6 Diesel.
http://www.autoblog.com/2007/03/06/geneva-motor-show-cadillac-unveils-new-2-9l-v6-diesel-for-cts/

Only one problem, it has a Turbo. :(

I really want to keep the engine as simple as possible to be honest, but I may not have a choice in the matter.

[Vern]

yeah cooling, but that can be sorted with $$$$$, ONe of the defenders i was looking at has had over $28,000 spent on it just on this conversion, from memorey the engine was $14,000 (not sure if that was fitted) from Brunswick, a year later it required new heads (cracked, common), its had 4 radiators, just to try cool it, the list goes on, anyway $28,000 later and its still not perfect (well wasn't last time i saw it) I can't see you getting much change from $20,000 (unless you get a low mileage engine from someone like Dewars) for this conversion. The good thing about them is they drive just like a stock 350 chev with a lower rev range.
There a high comp engine (22:1) so turbo's not a great idea which is fine seen as you don't want one. IF your still interested then check out 'the deisel page' website, its dedicated to the GM diesels, plenty of info on there, but remember their putting them in mainly in big rigs where they have engine bay room, for big radiators.
IF your after other ideas you might find something on here Cummins 4BT & Diesel Conversions Forums (http://www.4btswaps.com/forum/index.php).

[Gibs]

Thanks Vern for the Links.

[Vern]

here to help:)
sometimes:p

[TwoUp]

I can see this is not going to go over very well, but must be said. It is getting hot here and as you would expect the engine (6.5) would be developing heating issues. Now as most of the previous is about this I will have to say mine is in normal driving running at 75deg, I can get it up to 95deg if I load it up and give it a good flogging. Perhaps I should restrict airflow to the radiator as running cool is not good for the motor. This was achieved first go, well second as I ran thermo fans first up and didn't like them.

Happy for anyone to inspect for accuracy.

Pics in previous post.

Regards,
PeterW

[PAT303]

My only experience with these engines was in a 130 and 60 series cruiser and both cost $$$ and both overheated.Last year I helped the 60 series owner fit the largest fan we could get and make up an alloy shroud to suit and it still climbs into the red towing his boat at any speed over 80.Apart from removing the wings and bonnet overheating seems to be a constant complaint with these engines regardless of what they are fitted in. Pat

[123rover50]

12 yrs ago I bought a 6.2 from Linquip. Put a Turbo 700 behind it with the t,box off a LT 95 in my 6x6 FC. Always ran hot untill recently I fitted a big Volvo truck radiator and two oil coolers. T700 crapped out so put in a manual 4l80e now its overheating with two oil coolers.
The 6,2 is pretty gutless and I get about 4 k,s per litre but the rig weighs about 4.5t.
Had to go with the auto because with FC gearchange to a LT95 would be too hard.
I have a 4BD1 in the other 110 FC and its good. Maybe I should have stuck to Isuzu for the 6x6 with a 6bd1 perhaps.
Anyway dissapointed in the Chev.

[Gibs]

It would seem that some hit it lucky with the install, but many do not, the odds do not appear to be good in that regard. I know what engine I'd really like to use, but its not in production yet and thats the MYT Engine.

Anyway I'm now looking into V6's to see what can be done with those. ATM a mob in the UK is doing V6 Diesel conversions and they appear to have most of the issues licked, so I'll keep an eye on that for now.

Thanks to all for your input, both good, bad or other! :D

[Vern]

M&D Engineering? http://www.mdengineering.co.uk/

[TwoUp]

Good on you Gibs,
Keep looking and I hope you enjoy your install.

Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

You need radiator frontal area if you have an overheating problem that is not mechanical. Adding extra core thickness becomes self-defeating at a certain point. you restrict air flow through the core. Ask the German M.A.N. technicians who tried to make their trucks suitable for road train usage in WA in the 1970's. They had a ten row radiator in at one stage that ran hotter than the original.

[Gibs]

Vern
No its this Mob Diesel performance tuning and economy remap chip tuning for Landrover Defender Discovery TD5 Puma TDV6 TDV8 (http://bell-auto-services.co.uk/). Seems they like to tinker! :)

Plus I could always grab the new D3 V6 Diesel and transplant that I suppose.

[Vern]

thought you didn't want a turbo;)

[Vern]

You need radiator frontal area if you have an overheating problem that is not mechanical. Adding extra core thickness becomes self-defeating at a certain point. you restrict air flow through the core. Ask the German M.A.N. technicians who tried to make their trucks suitable for road train usage in WA in the 1970's. They had a ten row radiator in at one stage that ran hotter than the original.
thats the problem with the big donk in the little engine bay, as i said mine was fine after i put an 80mm thick aluminium radiator in it (thicker than the copper 4 core before it), mind you it only had 2 cores aswell, may'be M.A.N. should have done something like that aswell:)

[PAT303]

It's been my experience with cooling issue's that airflow through the radiator is more important within reason than the actual size of it. Pat

[Vern]

true but an 80mm thick 2 core will work better than a 40mm thick 2 core, remmber its only 2 cores, nice big cores:D

[Gibs]

thought you didn't want a turbo;)

I dont, but I may not have any choice, unless I can swap it out for a blower. :(

I have solved overheating issues by replacing the "Coolant" with Oil - Cooking oil that is, good old standard every day kitchen cooking oil (blended vegtable oil), cheap as chips. I then swap the mechanical fan for a big MOFO electric Thermo an off I go. Never have to worry about me engine corroding either. :lol:

[Bigbjorn]

thats the problem with the big donk in the little engine bay, as i said mine was fine after i put an 80mm thick aluminium radiator in it (thicker than the copper 4 core before it), mind you it only had 2 cores aswell, may'be M.A.N. should have done something like that aswell:)

M.A.N. could not fit an appropriate frontal area radiator without a massive cab redesign or a new cab design. The choice was a bigger radiator or somewhere to put the driver's legs and feet.

Same problem as we had at White with the first Road Commander cab. Couldn't sell them with bigger engines than a Detroit 8V71T or a Cummins NTC350 because we couldn't get a bigger radiator in there than 1125 square inches. The Road Commander 2 with its brand new cab design had 1710 square inch radiator frontal area as standard and a 2000 option was possible. These big area radiators came in a number of core thicknesses and rows of tubes to suit various engines and applications. These huge radiators were a spin-off from the USA drive-by noise standards. To reduce fan noise, they went to large frontal area radiators to accommodate wide slow turning fans.

[TwoUp]

Fan noise is an issue with me as what I have is off a Cummins and is 440 dia fixed and this creates a fair bit of noise. I had twin thermo fans that are very powerfull but I found them way too noisy.

The radiator was built here by Peter at Twin Cities Radiators and seems to be right for my use. It's core is 620 wide and is cross flow. The width all up is 740, it's 480 high and 60mm in depth. With the thermo fans as well as now it has a very slow warm up, so I am thinking of making another change with the fan. As you may expect the room in the engin bay is an issue. I may have to move the radiator forward like a Td5 style.

Regards,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

Fan noise is an issue with me as what I have is off a Cummins and is 440 dia fixed and this creates a fair bit of noise. I had twin thermo fans that are very powerfull but I found them way too noisy.

The radiator was built here by Peter at Twin Cities Radiators and seems to be right for my use. It's core is 620 wide and is cross flow. The width all up is 740, it's 480 high and 60mm in depth. With the thermo fans as well as now it has a very slow warm up, so I am thinking of making another change with the fan. As you may expect the room in the engin bay is an issue. I may have to move the radiator forward like a Td5 style.

Regards,
PeterW

If the fan noise is a concern and you are not having overheating problems, try making up a new pulley to slow it down. This was how the large diameter truck fans met the noise standard required. Another way is to put on a fan clutch so the fan only operates when required. We put recording instruments on White Road Bosses fitted with fan clutches operating in Northern Australia on road train service. The fans operated less than 20% of operating hours in high summer and 10% in the cooler months.

[TwoUp]

The clutch fan sounds to be a good outcome. I will have to search for the assembly that protrudes the least forward of the motor.

Thanks Brian,
PeterW

[Bigbjorn]

Do you have compressed air on board? If so, get yourself off to a truck wrecker and look for an Eaton or a Horton fan clutch from a US brand prime mover. Most have had them as standard equipment for thirty years or more. Eatons are spring engaged and air off. Hortons are are air engaged. Hortons come with a couple of bolts to mechanically engage the fan if there is a problem. There are other brands but these are quite common.

At White we found the fan clutch only engaged at slow speeds pulling hard and heavy. In any case, at traffic speeds the fan is doing F-all except burn fuel.

[TwoUp]

Thanks Brian I will go looking in the next week.

Regards,
peterW