buying a new D4 2.7 - rim swap

[irondoc]

hi guys

just thinking out aloud here - thinking of buying a new 2.7 D4 in a few months. will the dealers give you a car with 17 inch rims without charging you extra?

cheers
lucas

[Dirty3]

LR tells you they are not available. Well that's what they told me when I was first looking to buy a new one earlier on this year. The same salesperson also told me not to bother with the E-Diff also!

But that aside, and someone correct me if I'm wrong, but this is not an option at all. 18 inch only with the 2.7

Cheers,
Neil.

[ADMIRAL]

It will come down to how much they want the deal, how hard you push, and the availability of the rims ! They may have a second hand D3 to swap the rims off, but then you will have to accept SH rims on your new D4. The 17" rims from the earlier D3 will fit the D4 2.7litre no problem. I would think they would have to be available for replacement on the D3 ex UK.

The other option is to go for a set of BBS 6 rims in 17". I doubt your dealer will assist you though. ( but you never know ) Check for threads on these rims. Plenty of data around.

[rmp]

It will come down to how much they want the deal, how hard you push, and the availability of the rims ! They may have a second hand D3 to swap the rims off, but then you will have to accept SH rims on your new D4. The 17" rims from the earlier D3 will fit the D4 2.7litre no problem. I would think they would have to be available for replacement on the D3 ex UK.

The other option is to go for a set of BBS 6 rims in 17". I doubt your dealer will assist you though. ( but you never know ) Check for threads on these rims. Plenty of data around.

Admiral is correct. Make a condition of sale and you have the leverage. No chance after that, it'll all be too hard.

The 17s appear on eBay, briefly, from time to time.

There are no 2.7L D4s in the UK, nor any petrols come to that. But the rims would still exist there. They can be swapped over after the car lands easily enough.

Or cruise around and when you see a D3 S model offer to swap! You never know, could be in luck.

Refer to the FAQ above for more info.

[CaverD3]

Would it be available as an option from factory order?

[Celtoid]

Is supply outweighing demand on D4s in Australia? If not, that may limit the leverage you have.

But it's worth the asking anyway.

[Bushwanderer]

ASNIP

There are no 2.7L D4s in the UK, SNIP

Hi Rob,
I don't think that this is ,strictly, correct.

In the UK, D4 commercials originally came with 2.7L TDV6.

I accept that D4 commercials now come with a 3.0L (albeit at a lower BHP).

HTH,
Peter

[AGRO]

Hi,

During ordering my D4, 2.7 in February this this I went down the exact same path. I pressured the dealer to factory fit/deliver my vehicle with 17' rims. No go. I observed at the time that D4, 2.7 where delivered to the French market (check the French Website to see if it is still the case) with 17" rims ex factory as std. All other rims were options.

I put this to LR Australia formally and requested factory fitted 17" rims. I got a formal response and several phones calls from LR Australia that "they" have determined that the Australian Market want 18" rims and 17" rims can be ordered as an accessory if required.

No shift in specs or consideration for factory fitted 17" rims will be made - that was my formal and verbal advise from LR Aust.

[CaverD3]

Like we also wanted better brakes rather than 17 or 18 inch rims or we no longer wanted a second battery. :angel:

There is absolutely no reson why smaller rims couldn't be an option, even a small cost one, though. :twisted:

[rmp]

Yes, true, they originally had 2.7s.

Re fitting 17s -- the factory *won't*, but the dealer *can*. Whether the dealer does or not depends on how much they want the sale. A friend had a dealer agree to fit 17s on a new D4 2.7. He went and bought a LC200, but that's not the point (and he's still a friend ;-) )

The Australian market wants 18s and 19s. That's not the same as not wanting 17s.

[ADMIRAL]

Like we also wanted better brakes rather than 17 or 18 inch rims or we no longer wanted a second battery. :angel:

There is absolutely no reson why smaller rims couldn't be an option, even a small cost one, though. :twisted:

The less variation in std equipment fitted, the less the cost is on the production line, and I guess the less spares the dealers have to carry. Has to be money driven.

[CaverD3]

More likely LRA agreed to a specific specification, maybe were given little options. Aus is a small market compared to the rest of the world.

[Dirty3]

This is also where LR Aus, misses a whole market. They concentrate on the high end....but offer little on the fit for purpose end. The only offering is the Defender. A whole market exists out there consisting of Toyota & Nissan...ok Mitsubishi too. If they wanted to attract more to the LR marque, help the buying public to want to come across. Offering bespoke options for offroad work would make them a serious contender with the other manufacturers.

[rmp]

LR don't need to do that. They have the reputation already, therefore need not put any effort into maintaining it.

Problem is, that sooner or later it'll swing and all of a sudden LR will become known as the "ex offroad" brand.

[Dirty3]

LR don't need to do that. They have the reputation already, therefore need not put any effort into maintaining it.

That's what happened to Toyota recently, got too comfortable!!
The LR is more than a strong contender, these vehicles are superb, LR just needs to get out of the Tweed Jackets & Greenlanes........we're in Australia, our needs are different!!

[camoo]

Agree Totally. After 25 years of driving crusiers I have finally handed my 10th one back and moved to LR because Toyota were to confortable and lost me with the non off road vehicle... Now my new SE with 20" wheels... I am wondering what and how to alter the 20" so that I can use my new beast.

[CaverD3]

There are more off road options available for 20 inch than 19 inch :o I would try a search on here and on google.

[sniegy]

Evening all,

The tyre placard on the door says the vehicle has a choice of 4 rims only for the D4 2.7L & 2 for the 3.0L.

2.7L has 17, 18, 19 & 20 inch rims.
The 17 is available in the UK for various models today.
Obviously the 3.0L has only the 19 & 20 inch rims.
BUT..

For the Australian market LR deleted the 17" rim because apparantly we didnt need/want them.:eek:

Normally a salesperson will to anything the customer wants, If the rims cost us money to option up, then obviously we want some compensation to opt up for the customer, on the other hand if the client wants to go the other way & get smaller rims then not charging the client will clench the deal.;)

[CaverD3]

For the Australian market LR deleted the 17" rim because apparantly we didnt need/want them.:eek:

LRA obviously listened to your feedback sniegy. ;)

[rmp]

Hmm, the UK 3.0 I examined over a year ago had 17s listed on the placard. Which kind of amazed me. The Aussie 3.0 I drove earlier this also had 17s listed (and a 175/80/19, the silly space-saver spare we fortunately do not have to suffer here, unlike the UK)

Of course they won't fit so it's a silly placard anyway, but it made me wonder.

I would also guess if a car comes with 18s, and the customer wants 17s, then the 17s can be fitted but who pays for the 17s, and what happens to the 18s? I can't imagine there being a huge demand for LR 18" rims.

But, if you have the $ waiting I reckon most dealers could see their way clear to a deal on the rims. Worked for my mate.

[rmp]

Agree Totally. After 25 years of driving crusiers I have finally handed my 10th one back and moved to LR because Toyota were to confortable and lost me with the non off road vehicle... Now my new SE with 20" wheels... I am wondering what and how to alter the 20" so that I can use my new beast.

do tell more about why you left Toyota...

[sniegy]

LRA obviously listened to your feedback sniegy. ;)

:D
I want 17's, I want 17's Please bring them back.....pleeeeaaaassse.

Still awaiting 2 more 17's & hopefully they will arrive, hopefully.

[Graeme]

Hmm, the UK 3.0 I examined over a year ago had 17s listed on the placard. Which kind of amazed me. The Aussie 3.0 I drove earlier this also had 17s listed (and a 175/80/19, the silly space-saver spare we fortunately do not have to suffer here, unlike the UK)

The placard on mine does not differentiate between engines, simply listing all sizes and thus another story.

[sniegy]

Hmmm,
Just rang another friend who has a D4 with the 3.0 & he also states it lists all 4 rim sizes ????

I would only assume it is a common part number as is used regardless of engine.

It is also the same for the RRSport !!!!

[rmp]

http://www.peppernet.org/rmisc/img/RMP_2447.jpg

[scarry]

Hmmm,
Just rang another friend who has a D4 with the 3.0 & he also states it lists all 4 rim sizes ????

I would only assume it is a common part number as is used regardless of engine.

It is also the same for the RRSport !!!!

I noticed this at a dealer about 4 weeks ago.Mentioned it to the salesman,& he couldn't believe it.

[rmp]

Did the salesman even understand what you were talking about?

[sniegy]

Did the salesman even understand what you were talking about?

[bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf][bigrolf]

[Graeme]

I would only assume it is a common part number as is used regardless of engine.
LR knows that the 3.0 doesn't need bigger brakes but is just making use of the space when 19" rims are fitted. If 17" are required with the 3.0 then fit the standard brakes. Although not a factory option for Oz, neither are 17" rims.

[scarry]

Did the salesman even understand what you were talking about?

You hit the nail on the head,i had to show him as he didn't really know what i was talking about......:eek:

[rmp]

You hit the nail on the head,i had to show him as he didn't really know what i was talking about......:eek:

not surprised. Car salespeople and tyre salespeople do not, in my experience, have very much knowledge about what it is they are selling.

[sniegy]

There are the few that do have a passion in what they sell. I have met a few & it makes a huge difference. Especially to the client who does deal with them.
Cheers;)

[rmp]

Yes, maybe we're both thinking of the same bloke who has now moved on ;-)

Agree there's a few. Just a few though.

[sniegy]

[thumbsupbig] Yes Rob, I think we are thinking of the same guy.

[irondoc]

so if you were buying a 2.7 D4, would you push the sales guy to fit 17inch rims? car for mostly touring work, maybe one large offroad trip every two years and a few camping trips every year not requiring serious offroad work.

i would be interested to hear from people with 18 inch rims how they have found them

cheers
lucas

EDIT:don't worry about answering this, it has been done to death.....

[Bushwanderer]

Hi irondoc,
If you are thinking of buying a new D4 with 2.7L TDV6, I think you'll find that you have "missed the bus". 2011MY D4s (now in production) are NOT available with the 2.7L donk.

Best Wishes,
Peter

[CaverD3]

Where did your info come from bushwanderer?
I am looking at getting a 2.7 D4.
I asked the dealer about this, he said still 2.7L for Oz. UK and Europe have to comply with new emmission rules so they now have the detuned 3.0L.

[Bushwanderer]

Hi Caver,
I was under the impression that the dropping of the 2.7L was universal. Apologies to all if that is not correct. :blush:

Best Wishes,
Peter

[CaverD3]

I was hoping that was the case BW as detuned 3.0L with small disks could always be re-mapped.

[Graeme]

I was hoping that was the case BW as detuned 3.0L with small disks could always be re-mapped.
So what's the difference between this and retro-fititng small brakes to a 3.0?

[CaverD3]

Cheaper? :D

Did you ever fit the smaller brakes?

[Graeme]

Yes, cheaper, more easily done and more acceptable in some people's minds I'm sure.

I haven't fitted the brakes yet but unless circumstances change I'll have to start before long as my 19" tyres are starting to get down. I'm still waiting on wheel nuts for my 17" rims too. I have checked that the rims fit over the front stone guards and lower ball joint with adequate clearance but may need to change the stone guards for the callipers anyway.

[Neil P]

.... - thinking of buying a new 2.7 D4 in a few months.

The 2.7 is being disc. with a detuned 3.0 as base ....... wait and
watch .

[RecMec]

G'evening all, I'm shopping for a new vehicle, short list is 2.7 D4 or ML300 with Pro Off-Road Pack. I emailed LRA earlier this evening to ask 'em if the
16's from Defender or 17's from Freelander would fit the 2.7.

I'll come back to this post tomorrow evening or asap LRA get back to me.;)

[chuck]

The 17" Discovery 3 rims will fit a 2.7 D4.
These are also sold on D4's & RRS's in UK.
The 16" Defender rims will not fit.
The Freelander rims are not suitable due to load requirements & I do not know if they have the same stud pattern & offset.

PS Buy the D4 if you really want to go off road.

Regards

Chuck

[irondoc]

hey neil p - can you elaborate a bit about the dropping of the 2.7 - i am thinking about buying a 2.7....

cheers
lucas

[rmp]

The 17" Discovery 3 rims will fit a 2.7 D4.
These are also sold on D4's & RRS's in UK.
The 16" Defender rims will not fit.
The Freelander rims are not suitable due to load requirements & I do not know if they have the same stud pattern & offset.

PS Buy the D4 if you really want to go off road.

Regards

Chuck

spot on

[ozscott]

G'evening all, I'm shopping for a new vehicle, short list is 2.7 D4 or ML300 with Pro Off-Road Pack. I emailed LRA earlier this evening to ask 'em if the
16's from Defender or 17's from Freelander would fit the 2.7.

I'll come back to this post tomorrow evening or asap LRA get back to me.;)

Mate - as much as I have always liked the smallest rims possible for off road use (there have been several articles in various off road mags recently that adequately outline the reasons why including being able to air down for traction, puncture resistance and availability of LT and mud tyres etc) even with 20's on there is no comparison between the ML (Chrylser in German drag) and the D3/D4...and on road the difference is really not great from all accounts.

Cheers

[Neil P]

... can you elaborate a bit about the dropping of the 2.7 ....
Lucas , I was talking to 10FC on D3UK , and he mentioned that the
2.7 doesn't now meet Euro emission spec . The base and manuals
are 3.0 detuned , but can be mapped-up. LRA are strange animals ,
so it's anyone's guess if the SE will become the starter-pack here.
They've never been interested in turn-over , only markup ; uniquely Aussie
mind-set for many importers .:mad:

[CaverD3]

Can't see them changing from the 2.7 here. There is no requirement to meet the new Euro emmisiion standards. The 2.7 would be cheaper in any form for them than tha the 3L.
They are going to put the 2.7 in the Territory as well.

[DiscoWeb]

G'evening all, I'm shopping for a new vehicle, short list is 2.7 D4 or ML300 with Pro Off-Road Pack. I emailed LRA earlier this evening to ask 'em if the
16's from Defender or 17's from Freelander would fit the 2.7.

I'll come back to this post tomorrow evening or asap LRA get back to me.;)

RecMec,

The D4 2.7 with e-diff will, in MHO leave the ML for dead in almost every respect. On road would be only thing that is close possibly close.

There is a long and raging debate on this forum about rim sizes. I would surmise that the broad (but by no means unanimous consensus) is that 17's are strongly preferred if you plan on doing lots of remote area off road touring. Plenty of options, easily available and relatively cheap also have L/T options.

The 18's are fine for 99% of most people use of the D3 or D4 and with a growing list of tyre option to choose from in both AT and MT continue to get better. Greatest problem would seem to be availability when you are remote and increased risk of rim damage due to less side wall. They are reasonably costly as well.

19's on the 3.0 lt seem to concern some but not many who own one and there are a couple of good M/T tyres in 19's that a few here are very happy with, but again rim damage and availability seem to have some very scared about using them for real outback travel. Oh and they are pretty expensive.

There is also discussions about Performance BB6(I think) rims that some have purchased as a specific second set and shod with off road tyres.

Regards,

George

[ozscott]

RecMec,

The D4 2.7 with e-diff will, in MHO leave the ML for dead in almost every respect. On road would be only thing that is close possibly close.

There is a long and raging debate on this forum about rim sizes. I would surmise that the broad (but by no means unanimous consensus) is that 17's are strongly preferred if you plan on doing lots of remote area off road touring. Plenty of options, easily available and relatively cheap also have L/T options.

The 18's are fine for 99% of most people use of the D3 or D4 and with a growing list of tyre option to choose from in both AT and MT continue to get better. Greatest problem would seem to be availability when you are remote and increased risk of rim damage due to less side wall. They are reasonably costly as well.

19's on the 3.0 lt seem to concern some but not many who own one and there are a couple of good M/T tyres in 19's that a few here are very happy with, but again rim damage and availability seem to have some very scared about using them for real outback travel. Oh and they are pretty expensive.

There is also discussions about Performance BB6(I think) rims that some have purchased as a specific second set and shod with off road tyres.

Regards,

George

There are some other problems too George. A tyre that allows for deflation and moulding around rocks etc allows for MUCH improved traction - a 17 does that much better than a 19 and a 16 is better again but not possible on a D4. There is also the flotation issue by the ability of a 17 to significantly increase its length of footprint in deep deep soft sand where the ability to do that can make all the difference in my opinion.

Cheers

[DiscoWeb]

There are some other problems too George. A tyre that allows for deflation and moulding around rocks etc allows for MUCH improved traction - a 17 does that much better than a 19 and a 16 is better again but not possible on a D4. There is also the flotation issue by the ability of a 17 to significantly increase its length of footprint in deep deep soft sand where the ability to do that can make all the difference in my opinion.

Cheers

ozscott,

I think as I mentioned above, i acknowledged there is an ongoing debate raging about the pro's and cons of rime sizes and I was in no way trying to encapsulate all arguments into my brief summation above.

Improved capability off road is obviously one point of discussion and consideration.

However without knowing RecMec's requirement, but making the "big" assumption that if he is considering the ML300 with an off road pack then it is unlikely he is planning to test the outer limits of a D4's off road ability, no offense to RecMec or his intention. I think I use my D3 for its intended purpose but have little desire to really stretching its capabilities as I think this would beyond my comfort levels anyway.

I do recognise that the extra "flotation" would be really handy if you planned on doing lots of sand work as the D3 or D4 is a pretty heavy beast and sand may not be considered one of it strongest points.

Not trying to hijack this to a rim size thread so I will leave it at that.


Regards,

George

[ozscott]

No worries mate. Good comments.

Cheers

[rmp]

DiscoWeb's summary is excellent.

As mentioned above, please everyone read the many other posts on this topic, and feel free to revive them if necessary, but that's as far as we want to take the 17" vs 19" argument here. Thank you.

I also agree the difference between the ML onroad and the D4 onroad is much smaller than the difference onroad. Put it this way you'll arrive at your destination no quicker in the ML.

While the LR/Jag 2.7 is indeed going into the Territory it won't be precisely the same engine, and all Discos are made in England where they'd want to reduce the number of options on the production line. Basically, Land Rover will be looking at how many 2.7s vs detuned 3.0s they can sell and decide on that whether it's commercially viable. The answer may be no, and if so it'd be a sad day for Aussie offroading Landie drivers.

[CaverD3]

Unless they keep the same brakes from the 2.7. Which knowing LR I doubt, why should they sart to listen now?

[ozscott]

DiscoWeb's summary is excellent.

As mentioned above, please everyone read the many other posts on this topic, and feel free to revive them if necessary, but that's as far as we want to take the 17" vs 19" argument here. Thank you.

I also agree the difference between the ML onroad and the D4 onroad is much smaller than the difference onroad. Put it this way you'll arrive at your destination no quicker in the ML.

While the LR/Jag 2.7 is indeed going into the Territory it won't be precisely the same engine, and all Discos are made in England where they'd want to reduce the number of options on the production line. Basically, Land Rover will be looking at how many 2.7s vs detuned 3.0s they can sell and decide on that whether it's commercially viable. The answer may be no, and if so it'd be a sad day for Aussie offroading Landie drivers.

Rmp - when you say detuned 3.0 are they talking a single turbo 3.0? If so AND (the big AND) if LR can keep to the same price as a 2.7 in changing to a 3.0 TD and leaving the 3.0TTD for the higher cost again, then that would be very sweet...

Cheers

[scarry]

Looks like D4 TD3.0 has around 155kw,& 520nm.The 3.0 as we know it is a S3.0,presume as said TD has one turbo.



And looks like 17"s are gone for good:(


Sorry mods.....:wasntme:

[CaverD3]

"The 11MY comes with 19" wheels ad standard now an the bigger discs. The 245ps has a different manifold too so is a back to factory upgrade I was told, not sure why they can't do it at the dealers though."

from:

DISCO3.CO.UK - View topic - D4 Power Upgrade and Locking Diff (http://www.disco3.co.uk/forum/topic52128.html)

[rmp]

You can all relax. No plans to drop the 2.7 for Australia.