Full floating axles into 80"

[Timj]

Well I have finally got my 53 80" going again. Took it for a test drive today and it seems to be going great. It has been quite a saga that started with breaking an axle while just pulling out of a driveway onto the road. I didn't even realise what I had done as I was stuck across the left hand lane of a busy three lane road and was trying every lever I could in a bit of a panic to get it moving again. I pushed the yellow lever down as part of that and ended up running around in front wheel drive for a while without even realising. Anyway once I realised something wasn't right I pulled the axles and found the short side snapped at the end of the spline at the diff end. Had to pull the diff out to get out the broken part as well.

I though someone might be interested in the story of converting to full floating axles.

After reading of Scallops problems with bearings and spacers and the suggestions there for changing to full floating I started ringing around and decided to get a set of Hytough axles and drive flanges and convert it. The car is not standard in any way really so there is not much point in worrying about keeping it original, it just needs to be practical and strong. Of course the day after I rang to get prices and before I had decided to go ahead someone else bought the one set that was in stock so I had to wait while some were made and then sent away for heat treating. These axles are ten spline at the diff and 24 spline at the wheel and are much stronger than the standard ones.

Quite a few weeks later I finally had them in my possession and then realised that I needed some other bits as well like stub axles, hubs and brake backing plates (couldn't be bothered getting the originals off the axles). I have a few Series one diffs sitting around so I pulled the hubs, stub axles and brakes off one of those and thought that would do but the stub axles from the front are not the same as the rear so I had to buy some new rear stub axles from FWD. I also stripped the thread on one of the brake lines while trying to screw it back into the wheel cylinder so had to get a new brake line made (TBS-BHSS at Capalaba can do these, other places have looked at me blankly and said "gee it's not easy to get those parts any more")

So all the parts required were Series 3 stub axles (new), Series 1 hubs, series 1 brake backing plates, Hytough axles, Hytough drive flanges and of course bearings, seals and gaskets. Once I had all the parts it didn't take too long to get it all back together again and it now seems to all be working fine though it does look a bit flash with the gold drive flanges.

Very happy it is back on the road, just in time for All British Day on Sunday :D.

TimJ.

[Landy Smurf]

i hope my axles dont do that to much time and money gone into it thanks for sharing

[russellrovers]

:confused:
Well I have finally got my 53 80" going again. Took it for a test drive today and it seems to be going great. It has been quite a saga that started with breaking an axle while just pulling out of a driveway onto the road. I didn't even realise what I had done as I was stuck across the left hand lane of a busy three lane road and was trying every lever I could in a bit of a panic to get it moving again. I pushed the yellow lever down as part of that and ended up running around in front wheel drive for a while without even realising. Anyway once I realised something wasn't right I pulled the axles and found the short side snapped at the end of the spline at the diff end. Had to pull the diff out to get out the broken part as well.

I though someone might be interested in the story of converting to full floating axles.

After reading of Scallops problems with bearings and spacers and the suggestions there for changing to full floating I started ringing around and decided to get a set of Hytough axles and drive flanges and convert it. The car is not standard in any way really so there is not much point in worrying about keeping it original, it just needs to be practical and strong. Of course the day after I rang to get prices and before I had decided to go ahead someone else bought the one set that was in stock so I had to wait while some were made and then sent away for heat treating. These axles are ten spline at the diff and 24 spline at the wheel and are much stronger than the standard ones.

Quite a few weeks later I finally had them in my possession and then realised that I needed some other bits as well like stub axles, hubs and brake backing plates (couldn't be bothered getting the originals off the axles). I have a few Series one diffs sitting around so I pulled the hubs, stub axles and brakes off one of those and thought that would do but the stub axles from the front are not the same as the rear so I had to buy some new rear stub axles from FWD. I also stripped the thread on one of the brake lines while trying to screw it back into the wheel cylinder so had to get a new brake line made (TBS-BHSS at Capalaba can do these, other places have looked at me blankly and said "gee it's not easy to get those parts any more")

So all the parts required were Series 3 stub axles (new), Series 1 hubs, series 1 brake backing plates, Hytough axles, Hytough drive flanges and of course bearings, seals and gaskets. Once I had all the parts it didn't take too long to get it all back together again and it now seems to all be working fine though it does look a bit flash with the gold drive flanges.

Very happy it is back on the road, just in time for All British Day on Sunday :D.

TimJ.

[Timj]

Why confused Russellrovers?

[russellrovers]

Why confused Russellrovers?
hi it should haveread contact me for those fully floating axles willsee you on sunday jim :angel:

[numpty]

Look forward to seeing her on Sunday Tim.

[groucho]

Sounds like a good job. Couldn't you use series 3 flanges ? Thats what they used on the early ones i thought........

[Timj]

Yes, could have used series 3. But I don't have any of them sitting around.

Timj

[Aaron IIA]

I also stripped the thread on one of the brake lines while trying to screw it back into the wheel cylinder so had to get a new brake line made (TBS-BHSS at Capalaba can do these, other places have looked at me blankly and said "gee it's not easy to get those parts any more")


"Not easy to get those parts any more"? The brakes use UNF tube nuts to secure the flares on the ends of the brake pipes. There should be no problem getting these. The only hard thing to get is the BSF bleed screws, but I think these are only for the 80".

Aaron.

[Scallops]

Glad to hear Gumnut is up and running again, Tim - Happy Days. :)

[rick130]

Quick Q, what year was the changeover from the semi to full floater rear end ?

Reason I ask is that there's a Series 1 quietly rusting away in the paddock opposite and it looks like an 80 and it has a semi floater rear end. (and no, it's too far gone to save and they won't sell anyway)

[Scallops]

1957 - I think that all the shorter wheelbase S1's had semi floating all the way through the product run and that it was only the 109 utes that had full floating axles.

[russellrovers]

the later s1 short wheel base 88 had fully floating axles and all 109 long wheel base had fully floating axles a vast improvement on the semi floating axles jim

[JDNSW]

According to my information, the fully floating axle was introduced on the 109 in April 1957, and was optional on 88s (in other words, not all 109s had them).

Series 2/3 floating axles can be fitted to replace semifloating axles by fitting the later stub axles, hubs, bearings and drive flanges - but if the correct half axles are not available, and they are as easy to find as hen's teeth, the later axles can be fitted by adding a spacer between the hub and drive flange. The simplest way of making these is to turn the centre out of worn drive flanges.

John

[The ho har's]

Great to hear Tim...another series 1 at All British Day:D:D


SO you bringing the 2 games as well???


Mrs hh:angel:

[mildred]

According to my information, the fully floating axle was introduced on the 109 in April 1957, and was optional on 88s (in other words, not all 109s had them).

Series 2/3 floating axles can be fitted to replace semifloating axles by fitting the later stub axles, hubs, bearings and drive flanges - but if the correct half axles are not available, and they are as easy to find as hen's teeth, the later axles can be fitted by adding a spacer between the hub and drive flange. The simplest way of making these is to turn the centre out of worn drive flanges.

John

would you please explain the difference between fully floating and semi floating axles?
Are there any other types of axles out there that I dont know off as well?

many thanks amigo :D

what do these axles do that others dont? such as what does a semi floating do that a fully floating do not?
does that make sense?

semi does...........
fully floating does.............
fully sunk does............. I guess not much?

[Scallops]

According to my information, the fully floating axle was introduced on the 109 in April 1957, and was optional on 88s (in other words, not all 109s had them).

Series 2/3 floating axles can be fitted to replace semifloating axles by fitting the later stub axles, hubs, bearings and drive flanges - but if the correct half axles are not available, and they are as easy to find as hen's teeth, the later axles can be fitted by adding a spacer between the hub and drive flange. The simplest way of making these is to turn the centre out of worn drive flanges.

John

Well - I got the 1957 bit right! :D :p

[groucho]

fully floating V semi floating?

The semi floating axle is where the bearing runs on the axle shaft and the axle shaft takes all the weight. Fully floating the bearings run on a stub axle and the axle is attached to a hub. In theory the fully floating axle can carry more weight.......

[rick130]

would you please explain the difference between fully floating and semi floating axles?
Are there any other types of axles out there that I dont know off as well?

many thanks amigo :D

what do these axles do that others dont? such as what does a semi floating do that a fully floating do not?
does that make sense?

semi does...........
fully floating does.............
fully sunk does............. I guess not much?


Not so easy without pictures, but very roughly, a semi-floating axle only uses one set of wheel bearings pressed onto the axle shaft.
The axle shaft then supports some vehicle weight.
If you break a semi-floating axle the wheel usually falls off with the broken axle stub.

A fully floating axle uses a stub axle and a pair of wheel bearings spaced apart, (think any modern Land Rover, front or rear) that support the entire vehicle weight, no weight is born by the axle and you can actually remove the axle and the wheels will still support the vehicle.

[Timj]

Great to hear Tim...another series 1 at All British Day:D:D


SO you bringing the 2 games as well???


Mrs hh:angel:

Yep. Should have all three there. Washed them all today too so they are nice and shiny :). Of course that was probably enough to ensure that it will rain :(.

TimJ.

[mildred]

Not so easy without pictures, but very roughly, a semi-floating axle only uses one set of wheel bearings pressed onto the axle shaft.
The axle shaft then supports some vehicle weight.
If you break a semi-floating axle the wheel usually falls off with the broken axle stub.

A fully floating axle uses a stub axle and a pair of wheel bearings spaced apart, (think any modern Land Rover, front or rear) that support the entire vehicle weight, no weight is born by the axle and you can actually remove the axle and the wheels will still support the vehicle.
THANK YOU for you time
still struggling with the description but

[JDNSW]

THANK YOU for you time
still struggling with the description but


Full floating has the hub, and hence the wheel, carried on two bearings, which are on a hollow stub axle, that at the rear is an extension of the axle housing. The drive axle or half shaft passes through that and has a flange on the end that is bolted to the hub and drives the hub and wheel. No load other than torque is carried by the half shaft, and the vehicle can operate with one broken or missing (and driving only on the front axle). With two tapered roller bearings, it can carry a much higher load than the single row ball bearing used in the semifloating axle.

Semifloating does not have a separate hub, the wheel is bolted to a hub formed at the end of the driving axle or half axle, which is supported by a single bearing which is in a carrier bolted to the end of the axle housing. It is kept straight, and hence the wheel is kept upright, by the inner end of the half axle being located and supported by the side bearing in the differential. The half axle therefore carries both the load on the wheel, and the driving torque, and needs to be substantially heavier than the one in a fully floating setup. In the implementation on Series 1 Landrovers, the wheel bearing is held by a sleeve pressed on to the axle, and this keeps the wheel and axle attached to the vehicle. As the wheel bearing is required to carry side loads it is a substantial ball race, and being a sealed bearing cannot be relubricated. While axle failures are quite rare in Series 1s, wheel bearing failures are not, and replacing the bearing requires a workshop with a press. This contrasts with the later fully floating setup, where rare bearing failures can be replaced in the field with hand tools only. (So can the not infrequent broken half axles.)

Hope this is a bit clearer

John

[mildred]

Full floating has the hub, and hence the wheel, carried on two bearings, which are on a hollow stub axle, that at the rear is an extension of the axle housing. The drive axle or half shaft passes through that and has a flange on the end that is bolted to the hub and drives the hub and wheel. No load other than torque is carried by the half shaft, and the vehicle can operate with one broken or missing (and driving only on the front axle). With two tapered roller bearings, it can carry a much higher load than the single row ball bearing used in the semi-floating axle.

Semi-floatingdoes not have a separate hub, the wheel is bolted to a hub formed at the end of the driving axle or half axle, which is supported by a single bearing which is in a carrier bolted to the end of the axle housing. It is kept straight, and hence the wheel is kept upright, by the inner end of the half axle being located and supported by the side bearing in the differential. The half axle therefore carries both the load on the wheel, and the driving torque, and needs to be substantially heavier than the one in a fully floating setup. In the implementation on Series 1 Landrovers, the wheel bearing is held by a sleeve pressed on to the axle, and this keeps the wheel and axle attached to the vehicle. As the wheel bearing is required to carry side loads it is a substantial ball race, and being a sealed bearing cannot be relubricated. While axle failures are quite rare in Series 1s, wheel bearing failures are not, and replacing the bearing requires a workshop with a press. This contrasts with the later fully floating setup, where rare bearing failures can be replaced in the field with hand tools only. (So can the not infrequent broken half axles.)

Hope this is a bit clearer

John
thank you John
the mysteries of mechanical engineering and associated information will for ever be a mystery, My beloved series one will remain , elusive, mysterious and an enigma of the modern world to me..
Series rock and may my little semi floating hub be forever suspended in the illustrious figment of time and animation of the alro