Ultra flexi coils

[lambrover]

Hi guys I have been in contact with Shane from suspension stuff and I am getting him to make a new set of coils for me, they are not the normal flexi coil, they will be a ultra flexi coil. I am getting them made in a three inch lift, is there any one interested in this kind off thing either in a 2 or 3 inch lift.

[cal415]

Yep,, i could be interested, what would the spring rates and lengths be?

[lambrover]

Mine will be for a 3 inch lift not sure of the rates yet he is custom making them and I should find out later in the week the specs.

[lokka]

I would be interested also ive dealt with shane in the past and he has all ways looked after me maby i should call him and get some info on these coils as i will need heavyer rears if i dont use the air springs .

[stig0000]

How are they going to be on full compresson.. mine allready vertuly close up there there only flexy

[lambrover]

Stig000, shane said they are a progressive rate coil that is really tapered in the last coils to give the coil the ability to open up well. I will be talking to Shane on Monday with an indication on how many people are interested in this kind of coil as he wants to know of he should bulk manufacture

[rick130]

Stig000, shane said they are a progressive rate coil that is really tapered in the last coils to give the coil the ability to open up well. I will be talking to Shane on Monday with an indication on how many people are interested in this kind of coil as he wants to know of he should bulk manufacture

So are they taper ground wire rather than variable pitch ?

Interesting, I'd think not too many spring makers in Oz can do tapered wire springs.

[lambrover]

Rick130 I believe they will be as he said he will change the wire diameter in the end, this was the reason they are the ultra flexi coil

[stig0000]

id love to order some but i have only just got some new ones off him,

[lokka]

Rick130 I believe they will be as he said he will change the wire diameter in the end, this was the reason they are the ultra flexi coil

This sounds good il give him a ring about on monday too to get some info and tell him what il be after :D

[LowRanger]

Hope that you guys get yours quicker than I got mine.I ordered mine and was told it would take 1 month,as it was a special order.2 1/2 months later,I had to ring Dobinsons myself to get the springs.:mad:

Wayne

[lambrover]

sorry to here that Wayne but I think it will be worth it.

[flagg]

I would be interested in a 2 inch lift as long as the rates are right for my weight.

[lambrover]

Ok I will let Shane know there are another 3 interested, he was just after expression of interest at the moment.

[isuzurover]

I have rear air springs, but might be interested in a pair of fronts (+1 or +2") - provided I know what the min and max rates will be before ordering.

[lambrover]

ha Ben I am not sure of the rates yet but I will want to know before I fork out the money, when I get some info I will pass it on.

[LowRanger]

It was worth the looooong wait.But a little communication would have certainly helped.Mine rides nicely,with not much more body roll than standard.
I don't remember what the rates are offhand.But it wasn't till we went through the list of what was and wasn't on the vehicle,and what the vehicle would be likely to carry,that I asked what the spring rates were going to be.But basically I have medium rate springs F&R,as I didn't want the springs too soft and therefore lose stability off road,and not too hard as to make the ride choppy and lose flex,as that is why I bought the super flexi coils for:D.
I also fitted extra long Competition model OME Nitrocharger sport shocks,and changed the rear shock mounts and front shock towers.

Wayne

[c.h.i.e.f]

Lambrover bit late but I am in need of some new springs for my county and knowing yours has the same engine as mine I was wondering if you ended up getting these springs because I am looking at 3" lift but I want something that will flex alot due to it only being an offroader!

[lambrover]

Lambrover bit late but I am in need of some new springs for my county and knowing yours has the same engine as mine I was wondering if you ended up getting these springs because I am looking at 3" lift but I want something that will flex alot due to it only being an offroader!

Yep I got the coils and are fitted I am very happy with them, my rate for the rears maybe a bit stiff for your vehicle as I have it set for dual wheel carriers and rear draws, but man they are great they flex very well I can push my 33 well up into the guards and it stops on the spring mounts.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Wow sounds great :) I dont plan on any weight in the rear unless im in the back sleeping! Well looks like ill give shane a call and see what he can do. Oh and with 3" are u finding any handeling or steering problems ? Because its so hard to find bits such as corrected radius arms or adjustable steering rods :(

[lambrover]

Chief, I have no handling problems but I have got castor correction from slotting my swivel hubs a while ago, I did mine myself but can be done by a machine shop if you could explain it to them or you can send yours to les Richmond automotive and they can do it for you. If you want castor corrected radius arms best going through the web and buying from the UK, try QT services they have some good gear. Do you have a defender or a county, defenders don't have wide angle uni joints like the countys so don't like being lifted as high with standard front prop shafts but can be overcome by fitting a double Cardon joint instead.

[c.h.i.e.f]

thanks ill give them a look at! I hav a 110 county standard front end except for MD rear steering arm and rear end is disc brake defender rear end. With the slotting would u hav any details or photos on how to do it ? I might be able to get it done at home if it can be done on a mill,lathe or filling machine... Once its done does that mean a huge lift can be obtained ? Not planning on getting more than 3" but just curious thats all!

[lambrover]

Ok sounds good, I have a disc rear conversion on mine, how much better is it. Regarding the slotting of the swivel hubs it can be done at home and it sounds as if you have the right tools, can you remind me in a weeks time to draw a plan
On how to do it, I am away with work at the moment. I just remembered try looking up slotted swivel hubs in either tech or defender/county section look for discowhite and my posts. But if you need a bit of help let me know. You are correct with the slotting you can fit a big lift but say you where going for 5 to 6 inch I would fit 3 degree arms and use the swivel hubs to get the rest, my reason is I feel the axle housing is over rotated at that height so the pinion angle is server and the 3 degree corrected arms will pull the pinion down a bit but only correct the castor a little so would need the slotted hubs, it is being a bit pedantic and could get away with out the arms. I only have the hubs done, and is good with the three inch lift.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Disc brakes are just so much better its not funny :) ok no worries ill remind you in a weeks time if I hav not figured it out by then thanks.. I personally dont like the idea of body lifts at all (not on topic but still) but I dont mind say 3" suspension lift but as for 6" I hav never seen lift kits for defenders/countys that big ? :o is it worth going that big or can it make it worse offroad even with offset rims and big tyres ? For shocks I am looking at the bilstein 5150 series between 10 and 12" travel.. They look more offroad orientated than standard bilsteins but not quite the price as the full rally style monsters !

[lambrover]

Disc brakes are just so much better its not funny :) ok no worries ill remind you in a weeks time if I hav not figured it out by then thanks.. I personally dont like the idea of body lifts at all (not on topic but still) but I dont mind say 3" suspension lift but as for 6" I hav never seen lift kits for defenders/countys that big ? :o is it worth going that big or can it make it worse offroad even with offset rims and big tyres ? For shocks I am looking at the bilstein 5150 series between 10 and 12" travel.. They look more offroad orientated than standard bilsteins but not quite the price as the full rally style monsters !

I haven't seen a six inch lift for 110's but for the discos I have and it's the same principle, in which I was referring forgetting we are in a 110 section, sorry for the confusion. Me personally I wouldn't lift any more than 4 inch on a 110, as you alluded to it would become unstable in the bush under certain circumstances. I have seen the 5150 series shocks on the net they do look good, those shock lengths should work all right do you need modified mounts for them.

[c.h.i.e.f]

I hav come across a 5.5" lift before but it was on some hard to find custom parts shop on the net. Yeah I would be quite happy with 3" ! Well I think the shocks are eye to eye not eye to pin but I am prepared to make mounts up considering I might need to adjust open closed lengths to suit the 3" coils.. I did once consider coilovers but they need engineering they cost alot they need a bit of time spent on moding things and in the end its a 110 not a custom buggy!

[LowRanger]

If you are only going to use shocks with 10-12" of travel,you will only need 2" lifted springs.You will need to modify your shock mounts and will not cycle the suspension through its full usable range.

Wayne

[c.h.i.e.f]

I just checked there are ones in that range that are 14.3" travel is this a good amount of travel or just average ? The valving I dont understand is it to do with compression rate/decompression rate ? I am putting the 3" coils in and with say 14" of travel is it possible to dislocate spring when flexing or is more travel needed?

[Benny_IIA]

I just checked there are ones in that range that are 14.3" travel is this a good amount of travel or just average ? The valving I dont understand is it to do with compression rate/decompression rate ? I am putting the 3" coils in and with say 14" of travel is it possible to dislocate spring when flexing or is more travel needed?

Im running 5000's with 14.3" stroke.

With my 3" inch sus stuff coils it still drops below the cones which can cause problems :(.

Im going back to std rear coils and 2" fronts. the fix the relocation problems.


As the std coils have a much shorter free lenght meaning the axle is much closer to level when the cone goes back in.


Also mine drives like a peice of **** with the lift.


14" is around the max the rover rear end can flex

[LowRanger]

c.h.i.e.f. don't get caught up in all the "higher is better" garage that goes on,particularly around the Japanese vehicle owners.
You will get all the suspension travel you need from a properly set up Defender with no more than 2" spring lift,and you definately DON'T want any body lift.
You also need to cycle your suspension from maximum droop to full compression,without any shocks fitted.That way you will be able to work out open and closed lengths of the shocks that will be required,and what if any modifications are required to shock mounts.
The idea is to let the suspension do the work,while trying to keep the body as level as possible,keeping the COG as low as possible.Something that vehicles with big lifts fail at.

Wayne

[lambrover]

I have 12.8 inch travel Rancho shocks and my coil still dislocates but only just, my rear coils have a free height of 530mm and should be fine with a 12 inch shock. As for the ride my car rides better now than when I had the old two inch lift. I am thinking of upgrading to 14 inch travel rears and putting my old rears to the front external mount.

[LowRanger]

Im running 5000's with 14.3" stroke.

With my 3" inch sus stuff coils it still drops below the cones which can cause problems :(.

Im going back to std rear coils and 2" fronts. the fix the relocation problems.


As the std coils have a much shorter free lenght meaning the axle is much closer to level when the cone goes back in.


Also mine drives like a peice of **** with the lift.


14" is around the max the rover rear end can flex

With that amount of travel in your shocks,your standard rear coils will just dislocate further.I think you will be better off by having your coils so that they don't dislocate,which will also add to stability off road.
The rear spring locators that I use,allow my rear coils to dislocate no more than 2" before they are captured.
2" lift on a Defender/County is plenty,just needs to be set up properly.If you want/need more travel in the front,you need to start thinking about something like a 3 link setup.

Wayne

[lambrover]

Lowranger, I agree with your statement, defenders don't really need big lifts, a three inch lifted defender(mine) has the same ground clearance as a (my friends) Patrol with 2 inch body lift, 6 inch coil lift and running 35 inch tyre's, now to some having this much ground clearance may seem a bit extreme but I prefer to keep my chassis and sills of the rocks and believe that a 3 inch lift on a 110 is about perfect provided you are running a wider wheel track ie negative 25 offset rims or the likes. I like to climb rocky mountains and washed out hills where the clearance is good to have, a dedicated touring vehicle dose not need such a high lift and also come down to personal preference.

[LowRanger]

not only will you have as much clearance,but you will have as much,if not more suspension travel.I think,that looking at the photographs you vehicle,and mine have pretty much the same suspension travel,even though they are set up differently.And yes,I agree that widening the track,with offset rims,adds to the stability,and certainly the feeling of incar stability.I have -25mm offset rims with 35s as my prefered offroad setup.As my vehicle is primarily set up for the same use as your vehicle.But when used as a touring vehicle,I do go back to running 33's,as these are far easier to find if needed in more remote areas.

Wayne

[lambrover]

It dose have more travel, I inquired about getting some Tough Dog big bore adjustable shocks and the longest they made to suit the 6 and 7 inch lift cruiser or patrol had only a travel length of 290mm which is not as much as my Rancho's, I thought that was very strange all lifted up and no travel.

You say you run 35's some times, what gearbox do you have.

[c.h.i.e.f]

So tough dog do not hav enough travel , ranchos hav enough, what about procomp ? I think I might still go 14" bilsteins and mount them on different brakets ! ?

[Benny_IIA]

With that amount of travel in your shocks,your standard rear coils will just dislocate further.I think you will be better off by having your coils so that they don't dislocate,which will also add to stability off road.
The rear spring locators that I use,allow my rear coils to dislocate no more than 2" before they are captured.
2" lift on a Defender/County is plenty,just needs to be set up properly.If you want/need more travel in the front,you need to start thinking about something like a 3 link setup.

Wayne

due the axle walking forward during down travel and the free lenght of the 3 inch coild being very long, when it comes time for the spring to relocate the cone is on the out side of spring.


But when using a spring with a much shorter free lenght ie stock spring, the axle has moved back enough when it is time for the cone to do its thing.

I doubt my springs would strech enough to run them retained
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/1425.jpg

[Benny_IIA]

So tough dog do not hav enough travel , ranchos hav enough, what about procomp ? I think I might still go 14" bilsteins and mount them on different brakets ! ?

yes pro comp do long lenghts up to 14"

but they are not a patch on bilsteins (im running 5000 billy's 14.3")

[lambrover]

Chief, pro comp have them in the right length, cal415 runs pro comp

Benny_ IIA, your next mod should be to cut the rear control arm brackets off and move them forward to gain longer control arms, I have been thinking of this lately.

[LowRanger]

due the axle walking forward during down travel and the free lenght of the 3 inch coild being very long, when it comes time for the spring to relocate the cone is on the out side of spring.


But when using a spring with a much shorter free lenght ie stock spring, the axle has moved back enough when it is time for the cone to do its thing.

I doubt my springs would strech enough to run them retained
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/1425.jpg

Maybe you should look at something like the Xspring to help relocate your springs.And everything will just come back to the old argument re.To retain or not to retain springs,and that is something that has been covered many time previously.

Wayne

[LowRanger]

So tough dog do not hav enough travel , ranchos hav enough, what about procomp ? I think I might still go 14" bilsteins and mount them on different brakets ! ?

c.h.i.e.f.
What a lot of people do is just look at the amount of travel that a certain shock is capable of.What is more important,is how the shock is mounted,where abouts in the cycle the shocks sits at rest when mounted.What too many people get all carried away with is looking at how much drop they are getting on the suspension,without worrying about up travel.I know of quite a few people whose vehicles have a tremendous amount of down travel,but there up travel is less than a vehicle fitted with standard shocks.Because their fancy long shocks are too long in the body and they have either had to extend their bump stops,or just let the shocks top out,either way,this makes the vehicle unstable.That is why I mentioned that you should start by removing your shocks and just cycling your springs up and down to work out the amount of travel you have available and working out the length at full compression,then buying the appropriate shocks and mounts to suit.Do the job once and do it properly.


Wayne

[LowRanger]

It dose have more travel, I inquired about getting some Tough Dog big bore adjustable shocks and the longest they made to suit the 6 and 7 inch lift cruiser or patrol had only a travel length of 290mm which is not as much as my Rancho's, I thought that was very strange all lifted up and no travel.

You say you run 35's some times, what gearbox do you have.

I am running the standard LT77 with the LT 230 transfer with 1.4:1 transfer gears.But I have 4.11 diff ratios which helps with the 35's.

Unfortunately I have broken 2 Rancho 9000 series shocks on my old RRC,and even though they rode nicely,I could never rely on them again.

I think if I was making a weekend rockhopper again,I would go with Bilstein 7100 short bodies and make the mounts to suit.But they wouldn't be my choice for a multi purpose vehicle though.

Wayne

[c.h.i.e.f]

When you say about 4.11 diff ratios were do u find them for rovers? And what are in countys/defenders standard ?

Looks like I got some flex testing then to get correct measurements :) there is nothing worse than a topping out shock :(

[Benny_IIA]

When you say about 4.11 diff ratios were do u find them for rovers? And what are in countys/defenders standard ?

Looks like I got some flex testing then to get correct measurements :) there is nothing worse than a topping out shock :(

3.54..


I would look at lucky8 or other US sites for them.. you will cry when see the price of the sals

[stig0000]

i was looking at luck8 and they have 14" standed an short body shocks, whats the go there???

[c.h.i.e.f]

3.54 so that means they are quite a high ratio ? how do rovers crawl so slow then ? Is it to do with gearbox ratios ?

[long stroke]

3.54 so that means they are quite a high ratio ? how do rovers crawl so slow then ? Is it to do with gearbox ratios ?

It's a combination of the transfer gears and diff ratio's, the diff ratio's are designed and suited for standard size tyres, as soon as you put large tyres on your gearing is raised.
In a defer or county half the time you can get away with running standard ratio's due to the lower ratio's in the transfercase.
33's are no dramers at all with standard gearing, but if you go to 35's you might need to get 4:11's or 3:8's or something.
If you find it fine to drive on the highway without lower diff ratio's running 35's but off road the gearing is to high, it might be worth considering transfer reduction gears instead seeing the 4:11 c&p for a sals are so exy$$;)

CHEERS TIM.

[c.h.i.e.f]

Well I found that running 31's on a 200tdi defender it could crawl nicely and didnt even hesitate or shudder when the clutch was let out without any accelerator same with my puma and its 235/85r16's but for some reason with my 4bd1t county with 31's it seems like it has a taller first gear (5speed santana lt85 box) and shudders on takeoff and almost stalls if not accelerator is used :( engine runs smooth,idle speed is correct,and it done it with a clutch that had 300k on it and also with the new heavy duty one that I just put in yesterday :(

[LowRanger]

When you say about 4.11 diff ratios were do u find them for rovers? And what are in countys/defenders standard ?

Looks like I got some flex testing then to get correct measurements :) there is nothing worse than a topping out shock :(


c.h.i.e.f.
My vehicle has been set up to suit my running gear ie 35's etc.So I am running Ashcrofts new 4.12:1 reverse cut R&P in the front and have a 4.1:1 Dana R&P setup in my rear salisbury with custom made driveshaft flange.

Wayne

[LowRanger]

3.54..


I would look at lucky8 or other US sites for them.. you will cry when see the price of the sals


Keith at Rovertracks is who I use.And my Dana R&P setup including custom Driveshaft flange cost about half the price of a genuine Salisbury R&P.

Wayne

[LowRanger]

i was looking at luck8 and they have 14" standed an short body shocks, whats the go there???

Bilstein make standard and short body shocks in certain lengths.Short body shock allow long extension and have a short body to allow the shock to fit where limited space on compression is required.Something that is often overlooked when people fit modified suspension.

Wayne

[lambrover]

Wouldn't a short body shock house less oil and fade quicker in a touring situation, I have long travel shocks and made custom mounts on the top it has basically moved the top mount up enough to allow the car to sit on bump stops plus 15mm of crush. As lowranger said a lot of people fit long travel shocks and don't give any thought to up travel and fit extended bump stops or bottom out on there shocks, up travel is just important as down travel.

[LowRanger]

Wouldn't a short body shock house less oil and fade quicker in a touring situation, I have long travel shocks and made custom mounts on the top it has basically moved the top mount up enough to allow the car to sit on bump stops plus 15mm of crush. As lowranger said a lot of people fit long travel shocks and don't give any thought to up travel and fit extended bump stops or bottom out on there shocks, up travel is just important as down travel.


Theoretically YES,if tested against the same brand and type of shock,running the same pressures etc.But when tested against another brand/type shock,not necessarily so.But I was refering to Bilstein short body shocks,which have a very good reputation.But I think that most people that run these shocks are not looking for expedition type use.More for the extra suspension travel required for a vehicle set up for general weekend use in areas where maximum articulation is important.I also have long travel shocks and have altered the mounts to suit the type of driving that I do.But I know that if I was intending to do any long term touring /expedition type driving,then I would be paying my Koni dealer a visit,as having run Koni shocks on my 3 Rangies,I don't believe there are any better touring shocks available.

Wayne

[flagg]

Wouldn't a short body shock house less oil and fade quicker in a touring situation,

The Bilstein short body shocks have remote reservoirs :)

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=31795&stc=1&d=1292214435

[lambrover]

Flagg, they look realy nice.

[LowRanger]

Yes they do look nice.But not all the short body shocks have remote reservoirs.

Wayne

[c.h.i.e.f]

Flagg what model bilsteins are they ? I was looking at the 5165's :) I would be in the same boat as you with having to make eye mounts though :( what are the extended lengths for those shocks ?

[Svengali0]

Theoretically YES,if tested against the same brand and type of shock,running the same pressures etc.But when tested against another brand/type shock,not necessarily so.But I was refering to Bilstein short body shocks,which have a very good reputation.But I think that most people that run these shocks are not looking for expedition type use.More for the extra suspension travel required for a vehicle set up for general weekend use in areas where maximum articulation is important.I also have long travel shocks and have altered the mounts to suit the type of driving that I do.But I know that if I was intending to do any long term touring /expedition type driving,then I would be paying my Koni dealer a visit,as having run Koni shocks on my 3 Rangies,I don't believe there are any better touring shocks available.

Wayne


mmm. I run Koni standard heavy-trak shocks on all four corners with recently replaced (new bearmach) standard rear springs combined with airbags. I wanted flexibility when towing and also wanted to avoid rebound through the cabin when I go over bumps. I honestly can't say there is a great deal of difference between the setup I have and the damn near worn out setup I had on a previous 110 3.5 (for a while) so a bit disappointed. Still, varying the system pressure on the airbags does make a big difference but doing this every two or three days seems required practice- the system pressure I use is about 12psi and even small decrements below this through normal use seems to telescope through to my recaro as I drive. I kinda hate that but accept that further modification involves decisions and careful consideration around travel/articulation and consideration of use patterns. I'm impulsive when I go off road (perverse joy in watching others in my rear vision) and tend toward favouring a near standard setup with improved product in the damping and bushing departments. I like 'reinforced standard'. This is the third 110 I've had and the third isuzu (factory) powered vehicle with various configurations and it is without doubt the worst riding car of the lot in spite of the improvements which include 285/55/16 BFG rubber. Maybe I'm getting older

[grover7488]

which include 285/55/16 BFG rubber.

do you mean 285/75 or 255/85:angel:


Maybe I'm getting older

aren't we all :eek:

[lambrover]

well I have had the coils in now for while now and still very happy with them, I am amazed at how well they take a load and sag very little but remain compliant enough when unloaded. When I was down brisbane way I dropped in to Suspension Stuff and got talking about shocks, he can supply custom shocks and good prices, so that will be the next thing.

[Svengali0]

do you mean 285/75 or 255/85:angel:



aren't we all :eek:


sorry my bad- the size is 255/85/16. quite tall & chunky tyres. long wearing too given the highway miles I do. They don't pick up and hold pebbles either- ie- no clicking sounds at speed followed by departure from the tread of the tyre at 100km like a bullet.

[flagg]

Flagg what model bilsteins are they ? I was looking at the 5165's :) I would be in the same boat as you with having to make eye mounts though :( what are the extended lengths for those shocks ?

They are 7100's, 10" short body. open = 617mm, closed = 357mm.