How can i persuade the wife that we need a D3?

[simoncs]

Hi all

This is my first post. I have been searching through the forums and the disco3 site but don't have a conclusive answer yet.

Here's my problem....

We need a 4wd as I do a lot of kitesurfing and am always driving onto beaches, plus always have a lot of kit with me. I wouldn't mind also doing some proper offroad trips (not essential but this is a strong argument for me)

I'd like a D3 (or even a D4 if i could find one at right price). We had a Subaru Forrester before and that did the job in terms of driving on beaches etc.
The wife likes the Mitsubishi Outlander VRX, mainly cos it is smaller and easier for her to drive apparently. In fact she says she wouldn't want to drive the disco as it's too big. Essentially for the same money as a 2005/6 disco3 we could buy a new Outlander. Plus being a new car, it comes with all the toys - satnav, bluetooth,reverse camera,ipod connection etc etc) And also the 10yr warranty and capped servicing make the car much cheaper to run. It would get us onto beaches which is the basic requirement

So bit of an uphill battle and I'm running out of ammunition. I guess if i could pimp the disco a bit I would stand a better chance, but looking through the forums to put in an aftermarket gps/bluetooth/ipod/reverse camera / front parking sensors it seems you need to spend $4k to have it fit in the dash. This is just too much really.
Has anyone achieved a similar setup for less?

Anyone else had to persuade the wife that a D3 was the way forward?

thanks
Simon

[Chucaro]

I think that the D3 comes with a Diamond Ring :angel:

[WhiteD3]

My Mrs is 5'2" and drives a Golf....but she loves the D3 even though its a big car. Take your Mrs for a drive:
# show her the access mode on air suspension
# all the air bags
# the 3rd row of seats (you won't find better)
# permanent 4WD
# how much safer the kids will be in a big D3 than a poxy Outlander
# how much gear she can take away on hols!

[simoncs]

she has driven it - but feels it's too big. (I guess it didn't help that we got out of a hired Getz to get into it.) That's why i think if i had both front and rear parking sensors and a camera it might make it easier for her. just seems like such an added cost

[CaverD3]

Get her to drive a Land cruiser first.:D

[Tank]

Hi all

This is my first post. I have been searching through the forums and the disco3 site but don't have a conclusive answer yet.

Here's my problem....

We need a 4wd as I do a lot of kitesurfing and am always driving onto beaches, plus always have a lot of kit with me. I wouldn't mind also doing some proper offroad trips (not essential but this is a strong argument for me)

I'd like a D3 (or even a D4 if i could find one at right price). We had a Subaru Forrester before and that did the job in terms of driving on beaches etc.
The wife likes the Mitsubishi Outlander VRX, mainly cos it is smaller and easier for her to drive apparently. In fact she says she wouldn't want to drive the disco as it's too big. Essentially for the same money as a 2005/6 disco3 we could buy a new Outlander. Plus being a new car, it comes with all the toys - satnav, bluetooth,reverse camera,ipod connection etc etc) And also the 10yr warranty and capped servicing make the car much cheaper to run. It would get us onto beaches which is the basic requirement

So bit of an uphill battle and I'm running out of ammunition. I guess if i could pimp the disco a bit I would stand a better chance, but looking through the forums to put in an aftermarket gps/bluetooth/ipod/reverse camera / front parking sensors it seems you need to spend $4k to have it fit in the dash. This is just too much really.
Has anyone achieved a similar setup for less?

Anyone else had to persuade the wife that a D3 was the way forward?

thanks
Simon
Getting on to beaches is the easy part, it's getting off (without being towed) is the hard part (not for Land Rovers though), there can't be too much difference in size, go for the LR and put a smile on your dial, Regards Frank.

[spudboy]

Mrs Spud does not like driving our Disco 1, and she refuses to drive the 110. Says they are both too big and clumsy. Turning circle on the Defender is not much chop either.

However she loves driving our L322 Range Rover, which has to be bigger and heavier than either of the other two. Go figure :confused:

They are all Diesels, although I wll say the RR has got twice the poke of either of the others.

You're going to have to get your Missus to drive one around for an hour or something.

Good luck - Women & logic can be an interesting mix :p

[trobbo]

The D3 comes standard with rear park assist and you will find some HSE (top spec model) with front park assist as well.

If the car feels big, pump the seat up a bit higher to give better vision outside.

Count the number of air bags out loud
1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10,
Airbags - Driver & Passenger (Dual) Airbags - Head for 1st Row Seats (Front) Airbags - Head for 2nd Row Seats Airbags - Head for 3rd Row Seats Airbags - Side for 1st Row Occupants (Front)
Airbags - Driver & Passenger (Dual) Airbags - Head for 1st Row Seats (Front) Airbags - Head for 2nd Row Seats Airbags - Head for 3rd Row Seats Airbags - Side for 1st Row Occupants (Front)
Airbags - Driver & Passenger (Dual) Airbags - Head for 1st Row Seats (Front) Airbags - Head for 2nd Row Seats Airbags - Head for 3rd Row Seats Airbags - Side for 1st Row Occupants (Front)
there are how many air bags in this thing?

Here is a red book link which provides a summary of the vehicle.
look at all those safety features. ANCAP 5 star rating

Adaptive cornering HID lights are great at night

Redbook (http://www.redbook.com.au/used-cars/details.aspx?R=77839&__Qpb=true&Cr=9&__Ns=p_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cp_ClassificationType_S tring%7c0%7c%7cp_Family_String%7c0%7c%7cp_Year_Str ing%7c1%7c%7cp_SequenceNum_Int32%7c0&__N=2994%204294953958%204294843310%204294965618&silo=1300&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=13&__sid=12B43BC775B1)

[LeaRoy]

As a wiseman once told me.....It's far easier to ask for forgivness than ask for permission.






Mind you he's now divorsed ;(

[Utemad]

Buy her a Getz and then buy yourself whatever you want.

[DiscoWeb]

Hi all

This is my first post. I have been searching through the forums and the disco3 site but don't have a conclusive answer yet.

Here's my problem....

We need a 4wd as I do a lot of kitesurfing and am always driving onto beaches, plus always have a lot of kit with me. I wouldn't mind also doing some proper offroad trips (not essential but this is a strong argument for me)

I'd like a D3 (or even a D4 if i could find one at right price). We had a Subaru Forrester before and that did the job in terms of driving on beaches etc.
The wife likes the Mitsubishi Outlander VRX, mainly cos it is smaller and easier for her to drive apparently. In fact she says she wouldn't want to drive the disco as it's too big. Essentially for the same money as a 2005/6 disco3 we could buy a new Outlander. Plus being a new car, it comes with all the toys - satnav, bluetooth,reverse camera,ipod connection etc etc) And also the 10yr warranty and capped servicing make the car much cheaper to run. It would get us onto beaches which is the basic requirement

Anyone else had to persuade the wife that a D3 was the way forward?

thanks
Simon

Simon,

Get her in it, get her to drive it and make sure it has the reverse park sensors.

"Look how far ahead you can see, darling"
"how quiet is it"
"how comfortable are those leather seats"
"gee the air conditioning is so good, it will be so cool on those trips to the beach"
"you can pack as many bags as you like for ours next trip because we have so much more space"
"you can sleep in it while I kite surf if you lay those seats completely flat"
"the colour (what ever it is) really brings out your eyes"

Well the last one is a bit desperate, but you get the gist.

Before buying a D3 I too had a Subaru Forrester and a Mini. My wife mostly drove the mini and was adamant that the D3 was too big, she would not be able to park it anywhere, would run over one of the kids, it was not environmentally friendly, blah blah blah.

Gee I drive the Mini a lot now.

Really a very easy sell.

Regards,

George

[connock]

Good luck buddy , once your got one tho you wont look back. I had a 130 and my wife freaked when having to drive it but she loves the D3. May be concider a defender , take for a drive etc. ( great car mind yoiu ) then come back to the D3.

All the best:D

[NTBeyond]

"the colour (what ever it is) really brings out your eyes"

Well the last one is a bit desperate, but you get the gist.
Regards,
George

Very close George.

Mention all the obvious advantages but the clincher will be...."What colour do you think would look good dear?"

It's the colour stoopid. Women rarely care about all the rest.

[incisor]

As a wiseman once told me.....It's far easier to ask for forgivness than ask for permission.(

still working for me after 36 years :p

[talltales]

My wife wanted our first D1 because it was green. Once we had it she wanted another, a D3 and now I have trouble getting the keys off her.

Mark

[camoo]

I finally talked the young lady into letting me get a D3 and we went out and took the D4 for a drive.....then the 3.0lt (which was so much safer as you can get out of anything!!!!)

and it came down to the bloody colour!!!

Now I get " do they have a matching bull bar in that colour.......

:) :)

David
married for 20 years nearly

[ozscott]

Here is a red book link which provides a summary of the vehicle.
look at all those safety features. ANCAP 5 star rating

Adaptive cornering HID lights are great at night

Redbook (http://www.redbook.com.au/used-cars/details.aspx?R=77839&__Qpb=true&Cr=9&__Ns=p_Make_String%7c0%7c%7cp_ClassificationType_S tring%7c0%7c%7cp_Family_String%7c0%7c%7cp_Year_Str ing%7c1%7c%7cp_SequenceNum_Int32%7c0&__N=2994%204294953958%204294843310%204294965618&silo=1300&seot=1&__Nne=15&trecs=13&__sid=12B43BC775B1)

Mate the d3 is 4 star ancap. Assume d4 would be same to.

Cheers

[jonesfam]

The 5'1&3/4" (the 3/4" is important), loves the D3. It is the first 4WD we have had (8 now) which she will drive on gravel. She says it is just so planted on the road.
She loves how easy it is to revers with the big mirrors & sensors, loves that she can jack the seat up & pull the steering wheel closer, loves that it carries all 5 kids & a fair bit of junk comfortably for miles, loves that it towes so easily, loves that she can lower it to get in/out.
She hates that I take it bush, hates that the kids want the DVD on every time they get in, thinks the stereo is to loud & won't let me put a snorkel on" 'cause they are ugly".
The colour matched ARB bull bar is a real + for her & now I have to get a winch to fill in that "Ugly hole".
She drives it like she stole it & has the Discovery PermaGrin.:D
Jonesfam

[Preacher]

I've been around for a little while now and have enjoyed a couple of marriages.

I learnt very early on if you want to do something or buy something or get involved in something DO IT FOR THE KIDS!

It worked with my own kids and is now working very nicely with my grand children.

Just 1 example - granson was 5, i'd been taking him to the motorbike shop for months seeing if his feet would touch the ground sitting on a little 50cc KTM - this growing thing took too long so I got a piece of 100mm wood to help him along.
When I finally approached the subject with my wife - she said well how will you look after him! my answer = I'll just run along side him, it'll be OK
WELL! 1st outing, and he wasn't riding very fast - I was literally knackered - couldn't breathe, a total mess.
She said I think you'll need to get a bike too!
YES and that was the start o0f my second riding campaign - almost identical strategy to my first marriage with my own kids.

The D3 was so I could take all the grandkids away camping band to spend quality time with ther4e grandad and of vcourse it was much safer and moire comfortable for my lovelly wife as well.

READ & LEARN
you may adapt the strategies any way you like - just DON"T give me ANY credit

dj

[FifiLámour]

I reckon Preacher has it all wrapped up. He just needs to write the handbook, LOL. Do it for the kids ;).

In all honesty, I don't know why she's not jumping up and down in glee. I'm a mother and I love my D3. If I wrote it off tomorrow, I'd go straight out and get another one. I know they look big, but to me it doesn't drive "big". Sure, parking in the school carpark can be a bit hair-raising, but I'm so cynical about the other mothers' ability not to open the doors into either of my cars that I park a fair way away on the grass where I can set my own boundaries.

I can fit a week's worth of groceries in the D3 whereas it's getting a bit tricky with my BMW sedan. And my oldest child is only 8 so we are only going to need more...

I love the fact that I can carry my kids and everyone else's in the back of the D3 without issues. I would much prefer it was me driving them all than some other parent driving mine.

I love the fact that I can throw the kids' bikes in the back of the D3 without needing a bike rack, meet them after school and go riding at the beach.

In summary, the size of the D3 allows for spontaneity. Spontaneity is one thing I lost when I had children and I am loving the fact that I am reclaiming it thanks to my car.

In a D3, anything is possible. The world is an adventure waiting to happen!

[AGRO]

My Partner was always cynical about large 4WD's until she had the experience of long distance touring in a "lounge room with exceptional views".:)

I also encouraged her to have a drive along a 4WD track and experience the no nonsense "growl" of a well tuned diesel. She is well pleased.:)

[simoncs]

thanks all for the helpful tips.

so looks like we're getting there!!!!

now just having problems trying to source a car. Don't seem to be any in NSW for what we are looking for.
Decided as this is the first one to go for a Disco 3 2.7 to keep the cost down.
But to solve the toys problem probably going to retrofit a satnav/reverse camera/ipod/bluetooth connect in the cubby hole in the dash. So as that will probably be $4k need to find an SE or HSE with low km's. Ideally the later the year the better.
These cars seem to hold their value so well it's difficult to find one. May have to buy interstate i guess.

[CaverD3]

If you are going to go aftermarket with the sat nav etc you will be better with an SE as you can fit your own screen and system.

[simoncs]

If you are going to go aftermarket with the sat nav etc you will be better with an SE as you can fit your own screen and system.


thanks - but i think i also saw some HSE's without the satnav - guessing it was an option even on the HSE?
not really sure what all the differences are aprt from the electric memory seats

[Blue C]

I have a 2009 TDV6 SE and fitted a Hema Navigator 5 in the dash - it's easily removed (clips in/out) if you want to use it as hand held GPS or take it out for security. It's also got all offroad Hema maps + Memory Topo maps and for city driving Route 66 (the latter city mapping program isn't as good as Garmin equivalent). I got the optional reversing camera with it. It has bluetooth as well which I don't use as I already had a portable "Blueant Supertooth 3" unit which attaches to sunvisor and does great job. The Hema Navigator with camera was around $1400 including installation of rear camera. Cheers, David

[chuck]

simon

If you go to Freeway Car Radio's web site you will find that you can retro fit all you ask - from memory about 3 grand.

They are right next door to a prominent LR Dealer & have good knowledge of the product.

They fitted my grandaughter's drop down DVD (condition of which I could buy car!!!!) which is superior product to landrovers at a fraction of the LR price.

Regards

Chuck

[furrydog]

I suggest the same way I did. List all the pro's of a Discovery 3 and all the con's of your old car. When this fails, cry, stamp your feet & sulk till you get your way. This method worked well for me.

[FifiLámour]

:o PMSL Furrydog.

[isuzurover]

...

[isuzurover]

Just buy a NEW Defender 90 instead. Then you have a smaller AND more capable 4x4 ;)






(ducking for cover now )

[mum42]

Hello,

I drive a D3 and I was not really that convinced we needed a 'new' car when my husband came home with the idea. Then I had the chance to drive one and I just could not get over how easy it was to drive and how well it held the road! I just sits on the road, has a very small turning circle for such a large vehicle, the engine is quiet, the seating position is the most comfortable you will ever come across (well apart from the Rangie Sport then), it is so easy to park esp. reverse parking and all the electronics work a charm: the a/c takes the temp up or down immediately, the window demister works in seconds, the sat nav is easy to program etc. And when we bought it I discovered many other positives such as practical nooks and crannies where you can store all kinds of necessities when travelling with small children. Ours is a seven seater, so I can also take some extra children on outings. The back seats fold down so it is versatile and you can carry larger loads eg. furniture when you need to. Long trips are more relaxing than before thanks to all the comforts mentioned above.
I can also add that I have driven numerous 4WDs due to my husband's job interests and the D3 together with the Range Rover Sport are the most comfortable and easy 4WDs I have driven to date.
I suggest you get one on test or rent one for a week and let your wife do ALL the driving. Go to the shops and get her a new piece of furniture that you are sure will fit into the back (if you can afford to buy a D3, surely you can spend some cash on furniture!).
Do not forget to put in a longer trip, say 1.5hrs each way, esp. on a hot day. I can guarantee she will love the luxury and perhaps that will convince her.

Mum42

[DiscoWeb]

Hello,

I drive a D3 and I was not really that convinced we needed a 'new' car when my husband came home with the idea. Then I had the chance to drive one and I just could not get over how easy it was to drive and how well it held the road! I just sits on the road, has a very small turning circle for such a large vehicle, the engine is quiet, the seating position is the most comfortable you will ever come across (well apart from the Rangie Sport then), it is so easy to park esp. reverse parking and all the electronics work a charm: the a/c takes the temp up or down immediately, the window demister works in seconds, the sat nav is easy to program etc. And when we bought it I discovered many other positives such as practical nooks and crannies where you can store all kinds of necessities when travelling with small children. Ours is a seven seater, so I can also take some extra children on outings. The back seats fold down so it is versatile and you can carry larger loads eg. furniture when you need to. Long trips are more relaxing than before thanks to all the comforts mentioned above.
I can also add that I have driven numerous 4WDs due to my husband's job interests and the D3 together with the Range Rover Sport are the most comfortable and easy 4WDs I have driven to date.
I suggest you get one on test or rent one for a week and let your wife do ALL the driving. Go to the shops and get her a new piece of furniture that you are sure will fit into the back (if you can afford to buy a D3, surely you can spend some cash on furniture!).
Do not forget to put in a longer trip, say 1.5hrs each way, esp. on a hot day. I can guarantee she will love the luxury and perhaps that will convince her.

Mum42


Why did I read that post to myself in a "Hyacinth Bucket" from "Keeping up Appearance type of voice ???

In no way suggesting Mum42 resemble said character but it had that type of ring too it ?

Best of British to you,

George

[mum42]

Why did I read that post to myself in a "Hyacinth Bucket" from "Keeping up Appearance type of voice ???

In no way suggesting Mum42 resemble said character but it had that type of ring too it ?

Best of British to you,

George

Thank you for the compliment George. English is not my native language perhaps this is why I sound more like a recent arrived POME much to my DH's delight. I guess we are still a long way off sounding like good ol' Julia but we're workin' on it.

Mum42

[tonyt]

how can you compare a d3 with an outlander?:confused:

[roverrescue]

Ill duck with Ben...

"Just buy a NEW Defender 90 instead. Then you have a smaller AND more capable 4x4"
... and a fourbie that doesnt look like its been hit up the **s with the ugly stick.

S

[Bushwanderer]

Jealousy is such an unattractive trait. :angel:

[roverrescue]

The only way a D3/4 could generate any emotion resembling jealousy in me is if LR brought out a model which weighed two tonnes instead of three and had a tray ;)

Sorry to hijack - peace.

Steve

[rmp]

The D3's kerb is a lot less than 3000kg....and all those Defender owners who don't think much of the D3...remind me what you're doing browsing this forum ;-) You're most welcome of course, but it does remind me a bit of a bloke saying to his wife 'nope, never would if I got the chance' when a supermodel slinks by.

[bbyer]

Well that is what my 5 ft and a bit Wife thinks of my LR3.

She has a 2005 4Motion 1.8T VW Passat and it is a bit of a hot rod - it really moves, except that one morning the battery quit and my LR3 was requisitioned to get her and her sister out to their Mother's place about 250 km northeast of Edmonton. I was left to resolve the battery problem.

Well, my Wife had never driven the 3 before, and I was somewhat concerned however off they went for four days. My only driving instruction was not to touch the round knob or the two levers down there by the knob.

Well, I did get the 3 back, (something about the gas tank being empty all the time), but the overall review was very postive.

I think the higher up driving position was the major plus, but the odd comment was that the 3 was just a big Passat - well it did not accelerate as quickly, but the steering and controls were all like the Passat; the brakes were good, and the turning circle amazing. The sisters comment was the ride was a lot better than any "truck" she had been in before.

The grandchildren seemed to like the back seats - the higher up seating position I think, plus the view foreward from a child seat was pretty good - kids opinions count quite a bit these days I gather. The older one figured that their Mom should have one also as that would solve many problems - his words, and we found that comment interesting - well they got a 4Runner but...

On an somewhat related note, a few years back when I was looking for a new ride, I was tending to a Chev Tahoe, and that idea was not being well received - too much like a truck or something. When however, I started to broach the idea of a Land Rover instead, the 3 got a quite positive response as long as it was silver in colour. Hence I, (we?), ultimately acquired a silver LR3, and all is good.

Since then, my Wife now has learned what the levers and round knob do and knows that pulling back on one of the levers means the 3 is easy to get into and out of and that she does not have to lift up the grandchildren as high.

[FifiLámour]

Ill duck with Ben...

"Just buy a NEW Defender 90 instead. Then you have a smaller AND more capable 4x4"
... and a fourbie that doesnt look like its been hit up the **s with the ugly stick.

S

As far as I'm aware, you can't put child restraint seats in a Defender. At lease that's what the Landrover Salesperson told me the other day when I was oggling one. :p

[rmp]

There are aftermarket solutions for the Defender and kid restraints. But not much you can do about the safety.

I own both so I can be equally rude about either ;-)

[RecMec]

How to persuade the missus you need a D3? Easy! Just tell her about oil consumption, vibrations in the steering and clunks in the driveline of LC 200 and no bull bar available, no provision for auxiliary fuel tank and high maintenance cost of ML 300/350. Cheers!!:clap2:

[isuzurover]

As far as I'm aware, you can't put child restraint seats in a Defender. At lease that's what the Landrover Salesperson told me the other day when I was oggling one. :p

Sorry, but the salesperson was talking BS (surprised???). It is just that he/she can't sell you the child restraint. However plenty of other places can.


And RMP - see the thread about defender safety. Defenders TOP real world accident safety stats from the UK. Equal best with disco and LC.

[rmp]

I did see that thread, and it needs context.

The Defender is simply not a safe vehicle by today's standards. That doesn't mean to say it is *unsafe* -- relative to modern vehicles and in particular the D3/D4, it is less safe and that is a fact.

The Defender lacks - any sort of airbag including side, crush cage, roll cage, pre-tensionsing seatbelts....the list goes on and on. That's just passive safety. It also lacks stability control and advanced ABS for active safety.

Simply, all else being equal, you're safer in a D3/D4 before and during a crash. That doesn't mean to say you're going to die in a Defender, it's just a relative measure, like saying a car that does 10L/100km is more fuel efficient than one that does 13L/100km. You may not care about the difference but it's there.

Also, when viewing stats about crashes you need to bear in mind the sort of people that drive the car and what they do with it. This is why sports cars are over-represented in crash stats -- the itself is safe, but driven in an unsafe manner. Defender drivers tend to be slower, safer and more experienced and thus crash less.

Note: I own both a Defender and a D3, and have been involved in a major accident in a Defender and have had friends who have rolled and otherwise smacked their Defenders up. Put it this way I still own my Defender and take my family in it, but I feel better knowing that most of the time they're in the D3 and that's about the safest car I can afford to put them in.

Of course, the best safety is a skilled driver. That's where advanced driving courses come in, but only those that teach observation and road skills, not those that focus on car control which actually have a counter-productive effect.

[simoncs]

OMG!!! So excited!!! Picking up my Disco 3 TDV6 HSE 2005 today, from a dealer in Sydney.

Thanks all for the advice!

Now i just need to pimp it out and learn to drive it properly :)

Spoke to a few audio people so far and looks like will have to go the Kenwood system route as want bluetooth/ipod/reverse camera/gps in one. the Hitv option only does gps.

Will have to go through the forum now for some 4wd drive training (mainly sand).

[bbyer]

We here must all complement your wife on showing such good judgement. While one can celebrate, one must still display some care.

Incidentally, rather than pimp, we suggest the term "outfit"; which speaking of outfit, you might consider a little something of that nature for your wife before you get in too deep with the 3.

Something about treading responsibility, or it carefully?

[trobbo]

Whenever my wife makes disparaging remarks about driving my D3 HSE, I threaten her with a tweed coat and cap (aka Dr Harry) as a fitting outfit to wear whilst being conveyed in such a vehicle.

[clubagreenie]

How can i persuade the wife that we need a D3?

Buy a Lada

[isuzurover]

The Defender is simply not a safe vehicle by today's standards. That doesn't mean to say it is *unsafe* -- relative to modern vehicles and in particular the D3/D4, it is less safe and that is a fact.

Also, when viewing stats about crashes you need to bear in mind the sort of people that drive the car and what they do with it.

The above "FACT" may be what NCAP tests show, but not what the real world stats show - which are irrefutable. At the time the UK study was conduced, LC and Discos (which both had equal scores to the defender) had airbags and the defender didn't.

While I agree the D1/D2/D3/D4 has a lot more safety features, and is "inherently safer", none of that seems to make a difference in real world crashes.

If you were going to crash both vehicles into an immovable object, then sure, the disco would be the obvious choice, however how likely is that in a real world scenario.

In the UK, defenders are like hiluxes and landcruisers here - so used by a very wide demographic (including yobs and hoons no doubt! (especially the V8s)). I can't see that playing a part in the stats.

I think the biggest issue appears to be, that in most "real world" crashes, it helps if you have mass and a nice solid chassis on your side. Which was noted in the UK stats - as when a LC/disco/def (the three safest) crashed into another vehicle, the chance of serious injury to the driver of the other vehicle increased.

[gghaggis]

I think the biggest issue appears to be, that in most "real world" crashes, it helps if you have mass and a nice solid chassis on your side. Which was noted in the UK stats - as when a LC/disco/def (the three safest) crashed into another vehicle, the chance of serious injury to the driver of the other vehicle increased.

But you need to note that the prevalence of cars notably smaller/lighter than a Defender is much greater in the UK than here in Oz. There are more chances of hitting an equivalent-mass vehicle here, so I'd expect the passive and active safety features in the modern 4WDs to have more of an effect on crash statistics.

Goes to show "the old extrapolation from statistics trick" ;)

Cheers,

Gordon

[isuzurover]

But you need to note that the prevalence of cars notably smaller/lighter than a Defender is much greater in the UK than here in Oz. There are more chances of hitting an equivalent-mass vehicle here, so I'd expect the passive and active safety features in the modern 4WDs to have more of an effect on crash statistics.

Goes to show "the old extrapolation from statistics trick" ;)

Cheers,

Gordon

Good point, however ~85% of defenders sold in the UK are 90s. I would expect that stat is the other way around here. So I would guess that the mass ratio of the average UK defender to the average UK passenger car is about the same as in AU. I expect the trend would be the same - however defender crashes here are probably so infrequent that sufficient data would not be available.

[rmp]

Good point, however ~85% of defenders sold in the UK are 90s. I would expect that stat is the other way around here. So I would guess that the mass ratio of the average UK defender to the average UK passenger car is about the same as in AU. I expect the trend would be the same - however defender crashes here are probably so infrequent that sufficient data would not be available.

No, because European cars are on average smaller and lighter than Aussie cars. Let's just say the Falcon and Commodore wouldn't sell over there.

But it's a moot point - the Defender is nowhere near as safe as the D3/D4, that's just a simple fact. Statistics can, as gg says, be used to prove anything.

[isuzurover]

No, because European cars are on average smaller and lighter than Aussie cars. Let's just say the Falcon and Commodore wouldn't sell over there.

But it's a moot point - the Defender is nowhere near as safe as the D3/D4, that's just a simple fact. Statistics can, as gg says, be used to prove anything.

You missed my point - read my post again. UK cars are (slightly) smaller and lighter on average than AU cars, however defenders are ALSO smaller and lighter on average in the UK as well - since most are 90's - which are ~500kg lighter than a 110.

It is by no means a moot point. If you have an accident in the UK, you are just as (un) likely to be injured if you are in a defender than in a disco (or cruiser etc...). That fact is irrefutable.

Now if we separated the stats into high speed crashes or crashes into immovable objects (or heavy rollovers), then I am sure the disco (w airbags etc.) would come out in front. However they must make up a small percentage of accidents statistically.

[rmp]

Yes I was a bit hasty in replying, I see you did indeed account for smaller EU vehicles.

As for the rest, we'll just have to agree to disagree!