Puma - Fuel Priming Dilemma

[jake]

G'day Everyone,

Anyone know where I can get hold of a priming tool for the Puma model. Been advised that the on;ly way to replace the filter is to use a priming tool once a new filter is fitted.
Just trying to plan for a future trip, my last car - TD5 it was simple to replace the filter.
I have heard about a few methods but would like to ensure it is done correctly should this ever need to be done by me in the bush. Would hate to have to call Land Rover Assist just because My fuel filter has become faulty. Thoughts please.

Jake

[Blknight.aus]

remove the return line from the tank, pressureise the tank to a few psi via the line going to the tank and fuel should start to spill from the line coming from the engine. (you may need to turn on the ignition and crank the engine to open everything up)

give it a couple of minutes of flow and thats it done.

[abaddonxi]

Check out this thread-
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/106694-replaced-broken-fuel-filter-housing-puma-now-cant-get-fuel-up-into-motor.html

[dmdigital]

The Puma needs a vacuum on the fuel line to prime. This prevents an air lock forming in the injector pump. The easiest method is to replicate the OEM primer pump. It is then attached at the bleed point near to the injector pump on top of the engine.

See here: Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)

[Carlos]

The service manager at my local LR dealer who is generally very knowlegable, advises that a few judicious squirts from a pressure pack deodoriser will do the trick, I haven't tried this myself but it sounds reasonable.

[Blknight.aus]

sounds like using areostart in diesels.

hey, its only a ford engine, why not.

[jake]

I gather this is like we used to do with work boats, give the air filter a squirt and fire up. hmm, not sure if I really want to go down this path.
Just seems so ridiculous that a vehicle designed to go anywhere and with legend status is hampered by such a simple thing as priming a filter.

[n plus one]

The service manager at my local LR dealer who is generally very knowlegable, advises that a few judicious squirts from a pressure pack deodoriser will do the trick, I haven't tried this myself but it sounds reasonable.

You mean use the aerosol to pressurise the tank via the outlet that the return line was attached to? Or via some other method?

[pc3]

There is a market here for someone like Mulgo to manufacture a reasonably priced "bush priming kit" with instructions for us Puma owners I reckon. The ome prime part is stupidly priced

[jake]

Been advised that you cannot purchase the part, not for private sale. So to have some manufacture and sell with instructions would be very worthwhile. Amazes me that such an important part to the vehicle is so hard to fix should things go wrong. Love everything else with the car, just this filter dillema is niggling me.

[spudboy]

I reckon this one fits a puma: Diesel Injection Priming Tool Fuel Pump Tool on eBay (end time 23-Oct-10 16:25:43 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Diesel-Injection-Priming-Tool-Fuel-Pump-Tool-/360266375395?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item53e18ca0e3)

At GBP14 it is pretty cheap insurance.....

[Carlos]

You mean use the aerosol to pressurise the tank via the outlet that the return line was attached to? Or via some other method?

No apparently you spray it into the air intake, so even if it doesn't work it will make it smell nicer!

[Blknight.aus]

yep, so hes areostarting a diesel that doesnt have a primed fuel system...

now it might just be me and I dont mind if you want to call me pedantic buuut Isn't diesel a lubricant, isn't part of its job to lubricate and cool the various parts of the fuel injection system?

wouldn't an engine that's out of fuel and running on fuel from an external source be doing something like operating the parts of the fuel system without lubrication and exposing the tips of the injectors to the full heat of combustion without appropriate cooling.?

[one_iota]

I reckon this one fits a puma: Diesel Injection Priming Tool Fuel Pump Tool on eBay (end time 23-Oct-10 16:25:43 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Diesel-Injection-Priming-Tool-Fuel-Pump-Tool-/360266375395?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item53e18ca0e3)

At GBP14 it is pretty cheap insurance.....

And a cheap tool when all else is considered.

[newhue]

I reckon this one fits a puma: Diesel Injection Priming Tool Fuel Pump Tool on eBay (end time 23-Oct-10 16:25:43 BST) (http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/Diesel-Injection-Priming-Tool-Fuel-Pump-Tool-/360266375395?pt=UK_Hand_Tools_Equipment&hash=item53e18ca0e3)

At GBP14 it is pretty cheap insurance.....

Spudboy, have you asked the vendor for and dimensions of the matal bit by chance. It certainly looks like it will do the job, but better one ask instead of a heap of us.

[spudboy]

No - I saw the link in a Defender2 post, and just remembered the link.

There are a lot more details on the Defender2 website, I'll see if I can find the link.

The nozzle bit on the end seemed to be a bit "universal", in that a number of makes use the same fitting, not just Land Rover/Ford.

[spudboy]

This is the Land Rover tool (costs $300 or $400 I think):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/09/45.jpg

This is the dimensions diagram if you want to make your own:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/09/46.jpg

And this is the link to the Defender2 thread where these pictures originated:
http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html

Look on page 3 of the thread for the links to the ebay advert.

Cheers
David

[Brid]

Isn't it just easier to fill the new filter with diesel, then screw it on? Or am I missing the point of the question here?

Brid

[one_iota]

Brid,

As I understand it if it was a 300Tdi then no issue. The common rail diesel works at higher pressures and is susceptable to air in the line.

[Naks]

Isn't it just easier to fill the new filter with diesel, then screw it on? Or am I missing the point of the question here? Brid

In theory it should do the trick. There have been reports on Defender2.net forums where this trick works for some but not others :confused:

Trust LR to screw up something good, IIRC in the Td5, you could prime the system a few times and it would get rid of all the air by itself and you could then start the engine.

[pc3]

I don't want to make anything i just want to buy a reasonably priced product from someone like Mulgo.....I am just not good at making stuff!!

[WD 130]

I have replaced the fuel filter twice and have had no problems at all, just by filling it up before you fit it. The only issue is the fuel you put in the filter is not filtered before it goes to the engine, but is only a cup full anyway!

[Bundalene]

I will be needing a method of priming the fuel system on our Puma sooner than later.

I was thinking of installing the likes of a Nissan Patrol fuel filter, which comes complete with priming pump.

Else make a fuel primer using an outboard motor style primer.

Any advice would be appreciated.



Erich

[dmdigital]

Have a look here Erich: Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)

If you can get the parts to make something up, make two, send me one and I'll pay for all the parts of both of them. I can't easily get the parts up here :(

[stig0000]

tryed the fill fillter b4 fitting move on a colpe pumas now, with only one allmost running but then came to a clutch rattly stop like all the others, they are realy picky with good fuel derlivery the pumas,

now we find that the way the filter mounts to the housing is just another stuped idear as it very easly get filled with mud and sand and rusts away,, so putting rust and dert into the fuel sys, and alot of them are leaking now to that were getting a few high miaalige pumas now:(

[Bundalene]

Have a look here Erich: Defender2 - View topic - Puma fuel bleeding pump (http://www.defender2.net/forum/topic516.html)

If you can get the parts to make something up, make two, send me one and I'll pay for all the parts of both of them. I can't easily get the parts up here :(

Thanks Derek,

I read that post and all the necessary info is there. I was just wondering firstly if anyone was having difficulties in this area and secondly whether anyone had done something radical like a permanent primer or an electric pump for priming?

I am in a position to do anything, just wondering how far to go.

From what 'STIG0000' was saying, I will see if I can come up with a permanent solution, rather than a patch.

[Naks]

FYI, this is from the Land Rover Experience Bush Mechanic course I attended this past weekend:


Puma: bleed manually, fill filter with diesel and start, if engine stall need to blow air in tank and open bleed screw in engine bay till diesel run out

[dmdigital]

tryed the fill fillter b4 fitting move on a colpe pumas now, with only one allmost running but then came to a clutch rattly stop like all the others, they are realy picky with good fuel derlivery the pumas,

now we find that the way the filter mounts to the housing is just another stuped idear as it very easly get filled with mud and sand and rusts away,, so putting rust and dert into the fuel sys, and alot of them are leaking now to that were getting a few high miaalige pumas now:(

Are you saying the filter is rusting or the mounting :confused: I always change the fuel filter every service given potential fuel issues. I thought the mounting was a cast alloy.


Thanks Derek,

I read that post and all the necessary info is there. I was just wondering firstly if anyone was having difficulties in this area and secondly whether anyone had done something radical like a permanent primer or an electric pump for priming?

I am in a position to do anything, just wondering how far to go.

From what 'STIG0000' was saying, I will see if I can come up with a permanent solution, rather than a patch.
I agree a permanent solution would definitely be the best. The fiddly ways to prime the system is just plan ridiculous. My thoughts are that a priming pump in the tool kit is probably the best solution though.

[stig0000]

the filter rusts and the mount corodes killing the seal,

if i owned a puma:eek::eek: i would just use the hand pump,, as its very easy and simple to conect up and use, 5mins and your off again, and it takes up bugger all space, that way your not cuting joining tampering in anyway with the allready fragile fuel sys, i think electreric pumps are good but just another thing to go wrong out west,;)

[dmdigital]

Thanks for that info. I haven't had any rust on the filter but then they aren't on there longer than 12 months. Should be easy enough to treat the outside of the filter mount.

[muddys1]

great thread,
seems the issue is pressure,
could we not use our compressors to to presure up the tank via the return line inlet after opening the bleed screw at the injectors ??

muddys1

[miky]

great thread,
seems the issue is pressure,
could we not use our compressors to to presure up the tank via the return line inlet after opening the bleed screw at the injectors ??

muddys1

That has been suggested and someone did say that it worked for them... but gee, too much pressure and?????



.

[Naks]

seems the issue is pressure, could we not use our compressors to to presure up the tank via the return line inlet after opening the bleed screw at the injectors ??

The LR mechanic said you need to pressurize the tank to force any air bubbles out. Using your compressor is doable, but how to you do it, since the compressor nozzle is too thin for the fuel inlet pipe?

[miky]

As said... there is a post where the guy just stuffed some rags around the air hose. I guess it only needs a small amount of air.



.

[Zinke]

Ive bleed up quite a few engines using a airline and a rag in the filler neck, it doesnt need much air but best if there's two people about as you normally cant see the bleed point from the filler neck and you get diesel everywhere!

Pete

[4wheeler]

I was able to restart my Puma after getting air in the fuel lines while bleeding the fuel filter by disconnecting the inlet fuel line above the injector pump and back filling with fuel. Be careful about dirt which could damage the pump. Also be careful about the fire risk handling bare fuel.

I reconnected the lines, put the accelerator pedal to the floor and cranked the engine. The car started but ran roughly after about 10 seconds. Pumpimg the pedal gently to rev the engine it started to run smoothly after a minute. I did not used any special tools.

If you had too, it would probably work in the bush if you had this sort of problem, but be careful.

[marko66]

Hi All

Have had an experience where I had to drain the fuel tank in the puma so it being a new vehicle and having owned it for less than a week I was feeling pretty good at least it hadn't been started :) so I took the fuel filter off and it started draining - stupid me took the cap off - don't know how long it might have drained if it hadn't been disturbed.

Refilled the fuel filter 5 Micron by the way, pressurised the tank and good to go :):D

Regards Mark

[Symo]

This has been my only concern with the puma, what if I damage a fuel tank out bush and need to refil and re-prime the system.

I like the discussion about simply putting an air line in the tank and presurising the system



Ive bleed up quite a few engines using a airline and a rag in the filler neck, it doesnt need much air but best if there's two people about as you normally cant see the bleed point from the filler neck and you get diesel everywhere!




But what about the tank breather? That must also be blocked I assume and I cant find mine even though I have been looking for it.

The dealer has my car now for a warranty issue plus its 10K service, also my tank leaks when i fill it so thay are doing that as well. When i first saw the diesel leak I crawled under the car to find the leak "appeared" to be on top of the tank - i.e. between the rear floor and tank top - how do you get to that easily?

[marko66]

Hi All

All I did was rags and air into the filler cap and it works no worries, you can hear the air escaping through the tank vent and if you have the filter off you can see the fuel coming out:)

If you guys want to drop make a simple job complicated feel free to drop the tank and all that.

Also if you are out bush remember that you can pump up a tyre to about 70 psi an use it as a air tank if needed

Regards Mark

[pc3]

Who will step up an manufacture a reasonably priced hand pump to purchase (with instructions) and save us form the over priced OME unit. Then we can all just have this part in our PUMAS.

Daniel at Mulgo Possibly ??

[jake]

That would be good, I priced the SPX and it was over $500 Aus

[Naks]

A few of the Puma owners here use marine fuel primers and then DIY the hose to fit the outlet in the engine bay.

[jake]

g'day Everyone,

Anyone come up with a supplier for a priming pump.

Jake

[P38ace]

Yes, mine arrived in today's mail from the UK. Cost me £25 (that's less than $40) including delivery but you'll find cheaper if you can be bothered to search.

There are dozens of suppliers.

Google for;

43986 DPT DRAPER EXPERT DIESEL PRIMING PUMP


There are other brands but Draper is a reputable UK tool manufacturer.

[Bundalene]

I have bled the fuel system from completely empty and used a marine type bellows as well as a bit of air pressure through the tank breather line.

There is a bit more on page 18 of the link below.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/115591-bundalenes-puma-project-18.html



Erich

[Nera Donna]

Who will step up an manufacture a reasonably priced hand pump to purchase (with instructions) and save us form the over priced OME unit. Then we can all just have this part in our PUMAS.

Daniel at Mulgo Possibly ??

I found this one here in Ozzy for a tad under $58 delivered.

http://www.autotools.com.au/catalogue/product.php/1/AT000WH101Aa (http://www.autotools.com.au/catalogue/product.php/1/AT000WH101Aa)

The one out of the UK is less expensive unit to buy but delivery to Oz was $58:50!!!!! Now maybe I did something wrong when I filled out the order form? Never the less I'm getting my delivered to a mate's house in the UK and having him bring back to work for me.

Cheers
Craig

[gitney]

Another fuel priming question here...
Correct me if i'm wrong here but it looks to me like all these priming tools will only get diesel up to the intake of the injector pump.
What if the injector pump has lost it's prime, or has an air lock in it. If i get diesel up to the intake of the pump is this good enough? Or will i have to then pressurise the tank with the tank return removed down at the tank?
Any help is much appreciated.

Cheers,
Chris

[PAT303]

While in NSW I dropped into two ford dealerships and neither had priming tools,both just pressurised the tank to force fuel up.Niether said they had issues unless the motor was run totally dry. Pat

[kentkal]

On mine I have fitted fuel filter housing with in-built primer, whilst doing so, changed fuel lines to rubber hose. When came startup time, removed fuel line from pump and hand primed until fuel came out of lines (engine had not been started for 6 months, at least), re-fitted line and gave primer a few more pumps and away she went, no splutter at all. I have changed fuel filter a few times since with no problems at all. I agree, a special tool to bleed the fuel system is just crazy.:thumbsdown:

[Blknight.aus]

why bother, most of you have an electric compressor on board anyway.


pressurise the fuel tank by means of its breather OR by removing the return line from the engine and then blowing air down to the tank crack the fuel line on the inlet of the IP and when the fuel comes out lock it up andcrank it over.

Once its started, put the return line back on and restart.

[Beckford]

I think Bruce Davis (Davis Performance Landrover) installs an electric fuel priming pump when he fits a water trap alarm.

Has anyone on here had this Modification done by Bruce Davis?