LLAMS electronic height controller for D3/D4/RRS

[Graeme]

The LLAMS electronic height controller kit for D3/D4/RRS air suspension is now available from Davis Performance Landys (www.davisperformance.com/contactus.html (http://www.davisperformance.com/contactus.html)) for DIY installation or to be fitted by a workshop. The kit RRP is $594 incl GST.

The controller is intended to be used in normal height mode to allow use of full or partial off-road and high-speed heights at any speed and return to normal height at the driver's discretion. Its small rotary switch (c/w tri-colour LED) can be operated whilst stationary or whilst moving and has -20mm (green), normal(off), +30mm(orange), +50mm(red) settings in that order. +50mm when used in off-road mode equates to about super-extended height which would be limited by the off-road mode speed limitation. Use of extended or super-extended mode height in conjunction with +30mm or +50mm might trigger a suspenion fault due to fully-extended suspension. There is logic that attempts to prevent this from happening by not allowing the extra height at extreme articulation but might still allow too much movement in order to not unduly limit extra height. Switching the controller to normal then cycling the ignition should clear any such fault. -20mm can be used with access mode for even lower height for people with mobility difficulties.

The system modifies height sensor signals to cause the suspension ecu to think that the vehicle is too low or high and makes use of its self-levelling function. The suspension ecu will wait for about 5 seconds before adjusting heights as it does for any self-levelling, unless a height mode change is occurring whereby both changes will be implemented together. +30mm provides improved bump-stop clearance and thus better ride without using full off-road height. -20mm is LR's 160kph+ height.

A special loom plugs into the vehicle's wiring harness under the dash. Possible switch mounting positions are in the D3's small blank panel behind the EPB switch, instead of the D4's driver's accessory power socket or in the earlier RRS's shelf that surrounds the display screen. A loop-back plug is included so that the module can be electrically removed without having to de-install the special loom. As LR modified height sensor/ecu electrical operation over the 2005-2010 models, a calibration process to learn off-road height increments for each sensor must be done as part of the installation to avoid having vehicle-specific kits. This also allows the kit to be moved to a different vehicle and calibrated for that vehicle. Re-calibration is not required if the module is refitted after being temporarily removed.



Edit: Rich has very kindly produced some excellent installation documentation and with his permisison, here are the links:

Loom installation & module V1.0 calibration:
http://www.box.net/shared/nxtbf4yd4p (http://www.box.net/shared/nxtbf4yd4p)

Loom installation & module V1.1 (includes recovery mode) calibration:
http://www.box.net/shared/zzgi1qs5rt (http://www.box.net/shared/zzgi1qs5rt)

Loom installation & module V2 calibration (2MB):
https://www.box.com/s/46ezof3vcgc9zvo2i9do (https://www.box.com/s/46ezof3vcgc9zvo2i9do)

D3 Switch Installation:
http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire)

[~Rich~]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/What can I say?
Awesome kit, thanks Graeme.
Makes an addition 5 choices of heights to the 3 standard!
Easier for my 85yr old father to get in, better off road clearance too!
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/1181.jpghttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/1182.jpg
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z69/VSK5/?action=view&current=IMG_1246.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3 Cimg%20src=%22http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z69/VSK5/IMG_1246.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Off%20ro ad%20+50%22%3E%3C/a%3Ehttp://www.aulro.com/afvb/%3Ca%20href=%22http://s193.photobucket.com/albums/z69/VSK5/?action=view&current=IMG_1246.jpg%22%20target=%22_blank%22%3E%3 Cimg%20src=%22http://i193.photobucket.com/albums/z69/VSK5/IMG_1246.jpg%22%20border=%220%22%20alt=%22Off%20ro ad%20+50%22%3E%3C/a%3E

[Graeme]

Pictures of the kit contents are at Message - AULRO Photo Gallery (http://www.aulro.com/app/showgallery.php/cat/1093)

[Graeme]

My appologies to the Qld purchaser whose kit didn't include a switch lead. BD has checked his remaining stock for completeness.

[Basil135]

Have you guys looked at something similar for the D2 with SLS?

[Bushwanderer]

I may be completely off-track here (I often am :(), but isn't the SLS on the Disco Series II only applicable to the rear suspension? If true, there is no advantage in a Llams setup for them.

[Basil135]

I may be completely off-track here (I often am :(), but isn't the SLS on the Disco Series II only applicable to the rear suspension? If true, there is no advantage in a Llams setup for them.

You are right. The SLS does only work on the rear suspension.

However, there are times where it would be particularly useful to lower the suspension. Now, this is possible by buying a special remote. But the cost of the remote, and then the reprogramming, is slightly prohibitive.

Llams setup seems to have overcome some of the problems a few of us have been looking at to achieve the same result, which is why I was wondering if it could be adapted to the D2. Unfortunately, I am not particularly happy in doing too much experimenting with a SLABS unit that is fairly pricey should I stuff it.

Even if we could find out what the signals were from the sensor, then we would have a huge head-start.

There are a couple of posts in the D2 section about this, but we cant ever seem to get a definitive answer.

[Graeme]

The D2 SLS sensor signals are compatible with the Llams unit, being a 0-5V analogue voltage signal, so a Llams control unit could learn the height differences. Whereas special interface looms are provided to make the unit plug and play for D3/D4/RRS vehicles, hard-wiring would be required for the D2.

Depending on the cost of a D2 remote fob, it may be cost-effetive to use a Llams controller and switch and I could work out a price without the special loom. However as the D2 situation would be for static use rather than moving over undulations, the Llams controller might be an overkill because a simple voltage divider resistor setup may be useable and switched in and out as required. The controller contributes to more than half the value of the kit which probably makes it too expensive an option.

[David~]

Hi There,
I am ~Rich~'s brother and would like to get the controller for my L322 Range Rover Vogue. Can you help ???
Thank You
David~:)

[Bushwanderer]

Hi There,
I am ~Rich~'s brother SNIP
David~:)

You poor bastard!;)

[Graeme]

Hi There,
I am ~Rich~'s brother and would like to get the controller for my L322 Range Rover Vogue. Can you help ???
Thank You
David~:)
Hi David,

Whilst the Llams controller has not been tested on an L322, the module should be electrically compatible. It only requires access to a permanent 12V supply and the height sensor signal wires. All model L322s' height sensor signals are compatible but the ecu acceptance of the modified signals needs to be proven especially for the pre-Terrain Response vehicles.

The pre-Terrain Response L322s have only 1 connector for the suspension ecu. I have not attempted to obtain M & F versions of these connectors so hard-wiring to the sensor wires is my only method. I have the necessary wiring diagrams and could supply an interface loom to allow the module to be unplugged and replaced by a loop-back plug, as per the D3/D4/RRS.

The Terrain-Response L322s appear from the documentation to use a slightly different clip on 1 of the connectors thus suggesting that my looms might not fit, even though the pin-outs and layouts of the connectors are compatible. A test fitment would be required and if the connector proves to be incompatible, hard-wiring is my only option.

Perhaps PM me if you'd like to explore this further.

[~Rich~]

:p :p :p

David & I went away for a weekend while it was snowing up the Blue Mountains, the controller worked fantastic!

It just takes me another min to figure out all the buttons, switches best for a particular terrain. :cool: Choices Choices!

[gps-au]

Just wondering what would be the maximum height drop available ?

I have a very low garage I need to get into quite often (current have to park on the laneway when there) and the maximum I could drop the vehicle would assist. (if access height is -50mm, and extra -20 is 70, but could it go further without effecting the extra height gain available otherwise ? And how how much further down ??

[Graeme]

Initially the drop was 30mm. An RRS fitted with 265/70-17 MTRs caused a fault trying to drop 30mm below access height, requesting that the obstacle be removed from under the vehicle. Maybe the 31.5" tyres were fouling somewhere (29" originals) but perhaps it was sitting on the bump-stops. Setting the Llams OFF cleared the message and the RRS raised to access height. After seeing that occur, the drop was changed to be the same as LR's high speed height to try to avoid such faults.

-50mm could be tested by performing a calibration but instead of going to off-road height when requested, go to access height. +50 would then become -50, +30 would be -30, -20 would be +20. At least the limits would be established.

[Graeme]

I've just done some testing by using the method described above using access height instead of off-road height during calibration.

-30mm used whilst at access height dropped my D4 approx 1 inch front and rear. Driven slowly over ruts it felt as though it was on the bump-stops. -50mm dropped the rear approx another inch with no change at the front. Now it really was on the bump-stops and very low. The suspension was very rigid whilst idling over bumps and braking whilst reversing on a paved surface revealed zero suspension movement. There were no error messages even with a restart and no switch to extended height. The suspension ecu may re-act differently on earlier vehicles.

Hence on my D4 at access height there's another inch at the front and 2 inches at the rear - approx 29" ground to centre of wheel-arch.

[gps-au]

Hence on my D4 at access height there's another inch at the front and 2 inches at the rear - approx 29" ground to centre of wheel-arch.

2 inches at the rear is good, thats where the height it :)

Now to organise approx time frame....

many thanks Graeme

[Graeme]

2 inches at the rear is good, thats where the height it :)

Now to organise approx time frame....

many thanks Graeme
If dropping to the bump-stops is a definte requirement then we should arrange a test of your D3 to make sure your suspension ecu doesn't object as my D4 not objecting is not sufficent evidence. A special s/w version can be provided if/when you obtain a kit so that you have -50, off,+30,+50 instead of the usual settings.

[Graeme]

A minor feature has been added to Llams - "recovery mode". It is to provide off-road height when the suspension system has lowered the vehicle to a "safe" height due to a reported ABS fault. The original Llams at +50 provides only about normal height, which might not be high enough if an ABS fault occurrs when at off-road height and really needed.

Recovery mode is enabled by connecting calibration pins 2 and 3 on the pcb using a screw-driver whilst the switch is at +50. Safe height and +30 in recovery mode provides around normal height whilst +50 provides about off-road height. Recovery mode is disabled by setting Llams to -20.

Kits currently held by Davis Performance Landys will be returned to be updated as soon as DPL receive some new versions in a few days. If a kit is required urgently, an unmodified kit can be purchased then the module updated at a convenient later time. Kits already purchased can be updated by returning the module (only) directly to me, as the module pcb needs a minor addition and enhanced software. The module will need to be recalibrated due to having new software.

The calibration process is now a little simpler too, with pin 1 obsolete and pin 3 changing from a dummy to an active pin. Calibration is initiated by setting Llams OFF then touching both pins 2 and 3 with a screw-driver, then the normal/-20 and off-road/+50 steps as previously. The jumper is obsolete.

Please PM or email me for my address for posting the module. As the change only takes about 15 mins, I intend posting back the next day.

[bbyer]

I have been watching this thread with some interest for the last few months and a question occurred to me. Does the LLAMS controller have the ability to set the 3 down on the stops? I know it does high and higher, also low and lower, but how about all the way down?

I purchased my 3, not so I could go off road, but to stay on the road - for me, that is doing pretty good but rarely does the snow get so deep that really high is necessary - I tend to just stay home - winter wonderland and all.

What would be useful for me is the ability to put the 3 down on the stops so when I am working under it, that I know it can not just drop.

I make a practice of always using frame jacks whenever I am under it so that if the air does let go, I am OK. I however still worry about some sort of movement if the air system suddenly deflates.

Hence, is there a transportation setting mode, or could the LLAMS have one? I know the T4 or I suppose the Faultmate can do it, but I wondered if "to the stops" could be programmed into the LLAMS. Also I note that the 3 sure can drop itself at the worst possible times so the capability is in there somewhere.

I copied below from something I found re the suspension.

Transportation Mode
Transportation mode is a factory set mode which locks the suspension (http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AFI~V18046850~C39560~R0~OD~N/0/108596970/110917664/110917669/110917672/34853741/34864218/34864722) to enable the vehicle to be safely lashed to a transporter. Transportation mode can only be selected or deselected using T4.

When the ignition switch is switched off, the vehicle will be lowered onto the bump stops. This ensures that the securing straps do not become loose should air leak from the air springs (http://www.alldatadiy.com/alldata/AFI~V18046850~C39560~R0~OD~N/0/108596970/110917664/110917669/110917672/34853741/34864218/34864722/56494540).

When the engine is running, the air supply unit will operate to raise the vehicle height, allowing the vehicle to be loaded. When the ignition switch is subsequently switched off, the vehicle will again lower onto the bump stops. An audible warning will be emitted from the instrument cluster sounder until the vehicle has reached the higher transportation height.

[Graeme]

Hi bbyer,

According to the same documentation, failure of multiple height sensors will trigger a lowering to bump-stops. However unplugging a Llams module, which disconnects all 4 height sensors, does not automatically drop my D4, so perhaps it has to move a little as well. It shouldn't be too difficult to unplug 2 height sensors.

[101RRS]

Recovery mode is enabled by connecting calibration pins 2 and 3 on the pcb using a screw-driver whilst the switch is at +50. Safe height and +30 in recovery mode provides around normal height whilst +50 provides about off-road height. Recovery mode is disabled by setting Llams to -20.

Can I solder in a switch to do this, one that automatically springs back to off when not being pushed - or will it prevent normal calibration or other issues??

Garry

[Graeme]

Can I solder in a switch to do this, one that automatically springs back to off when not being pushed - or will it prevent normal calibration or other issues??

Garry
No reason why that couldn't be done, although using a connector on the pins instead would avoid the possibility of melting the solder at the base of the pins. I would hope that the switch is mounted in an out of the way place to prevent its accidental use and not whilst driving, as it was expected to only be used during forced access height and there's no indication that the special mode is enabled. I suspect that off-road situations where super-extended height is beneficial shouldn't also require 50 kph travel, so +50 with off-road mode should do the trick.

[101RRS]

Thanks - yes mounted out of the way and maybe with a cover.

[bbyer]

Hi bbyer,

According to the same documentation, failure of multiple height sensors will trigger a lowering to bump-stops. However unplugging a LLAMS module, which disconnects all 4 height sensors, does not automatically drop my D4, so perhaps it has to move a little as well. It shouldn't be too difficult to unplug 2 height sensors.

Unplugging two sensors and creating a multiple fault is a unique idea. I had never though of that. I then wondered how else one might duplicate that? I am trying to keep my hands clean, or at least warm. Unplugging connectors at -40C is an unfun activity.

Yes, I can understand that unplugging the LLAMS module may do nothing as that may be effectively the same as pulling fuses - the "open the exhaust valve" signal probably cannot get to the air compressor, hence the vehicle stays up, which can be good - very good in fact.

It would be interesting if one could insert a "service" switch into the LLAMS harness somewhere to duplicate a dual / multiple sensor fault; also a setting, (power failure?), to prohibit operation of the exhaust valve.

Then one would have a "service mode, down to the stops" setting, (driving a short distance still probably required), and a "suspension failure somewhere" solution equivalent to pulling the fuses and locking the system at whatever height it was at - hopefully still up.

[Graeme]

Unplugging the Llams module from the harness only disconnects the sensors - nothing else. It has on some occasions caused the suspension to fully drop but I haven't got it set in my mind the precise circumstances, although I suspect it occurred when the vehicle started moving, but perhaps not, maybe only when starting the engine or something similar. Anyway, I consider your question was regardless of whether a Llams is fitted or not. Unplugging the suspension ecu grey/large connector unplugs the main suspension supply power which certainly stops the ecu from doing anything such as opening any valves, however its easier to remove the engine bay fuse and is sure to cause less faults to be stored overall. Unplugging at the sensors creates opportunities to damage the waterproof seals so I suppose that's not particularly good.

Maybe we should ask LR to provide the transport mode function on the service menu - there's not much available now so I'm sure they wouldn't mind. Afterall, they haven't acted on the request to provide the option to over-ride the off-road speed limitation so got out of that little programming task.

[bbyer]

I will be at my dealer next week so I will see if I can get them to tell me how transportation mode is activated or deactivated.

In particular, I was wondering if their 4's arrive at the dealership down on the stops or if Land Rover brings them up to normal, probably when the vehicles drive off the ship.

If the cars do arrive here still down, I will then try to get them to tell me how they get them back up - is it a T4 thing or just removing some relay/gizmo from somewhere?

I note your comment about fully drop and for no apparent reason. I had that happen, (only once), and I was merely walking away from the 3 and a door was still open - that event has always concerned me - and it was fast - just plunk! Hence I have a very complete set of 4 ton and 6 ton frame jacks now.

[Graeme]

Does the LLAMS controller have the ability to set the 3 down on the stops? I know it does high and higher, also low and lower, but how about all the way down?
I see that I haven't answered this specific question.

I know that Llams can be setup to lower my D4 to the stops. I did it to prove that it could be done and did so by using access height instead of off-road height during from the calibration procedure. +50 therefore became -50 and used in access height mode the vehicle dropped totally (-30 didn't fully drop the rear) but I don't know if any or all D3s will, particularly the pre 2007+ models. As Llams now has 2 different mode options available (calibration and recovery) depending on the switch setting (OFF and +50) when the 2 pins in the module are momentarily connected and as the switch has 4 settings, logically another mode could be added that lowered 50mm so that at access height, the vehicle was on the stops, assuming the D3/pre-2010 RRS versions don't object. However, the ICs are chockers with code, with the recovery option only fitting because the diagnostic output code was removed. The diagnostic output was only needed during development and only available from my programming pcb so no disadvantage to now not having it, but there is no room for even 1 more programming instruction. Calibration hasn't been restricted to the switch being OFF, so whilst the instructions say OFF, -20 and +30 has also worked and if -20 is used, the -20 step will already have been accomplished. However a way has been found to restrict calibration to OFF (s/w version 1.1.1). Hence the Llams module in its current form cannot have another option added and I doubt its worth the effort for someone to temporarily recalibrate using access height to make Llams lower fully, then have to recalibrate normally afterwards.

[bbyer]

I appreciated your answer. This is classic. One designs something and achieves the goals but then, more ideas evolve, code complexity increases, and soon, a new bigger chip is on the horizon. Classic computing!

You are correct, one would not normally want to recalibrate just to get lower, but now that I think of it, maybe I would. That gives me something to think about.

I have no need for super high as I am just a pavement driver and I want the "on the stops" just for self maintenance - an interesting idea that is just the same.

I thought about the idea of say inserting switches in the ground return signal sensor conductors, but the valid comment about creating error codes seems like not a good idea - kind of like crashing the system, but on purpose - definitely not ideal.

As to freezing the system at some height, yes, it looks like pulling fuses is the best way as compressor power does not go thru the LLAMS; also with the power off the LLAMS, then where would the LLAMS get power to reactivate?

Again, thanks for the reply as it really makes sense. I also note the comments about pre 2007 D3's. My LR3 has an April 2005 production date.

[Graeme]

Rich has kindly produced a revised installation & calibration instruction guide for the updated version (1.1). It can be downloaded from http://www.box.net/shared/zzgi1qs5rt (http://www.box.net/shared/zzgi1qs5rt) - thanks Rich.

Note that with recovery mode enabled, +30 provides the normal Llams +50 lift (about on-road height with the forced lowered height) and +50 provides double +50 lift (about off-road height with the forced lowered height).

If a momentary switch is connected to the module's calibration pins so that recovery mode can be enabled without having to open the box, the switch would need to be well out of the way because if bumped with Llams OFF, the calibration process would be started, even with the ignition off. The calibration process disables Llams height changes and waits for the -20 and +50 settings to create new calibration values, so unless the module was unplugged from the loom before the +50 setting, calibrations are eventually going to be cleared, leaving the driver wondering why Llams no longer works. A proper calibration is all that's required to fix it though.

Thanks again Rich.

[bbyer]

I was reading the "Recovery Mode - How to Activate" instructions. I assume that when touching the pins, that it is the same as when doing the initial calibration, that the doors be closed and the engine running?

There is also a note "See separate instructions for fitment of the switch wire"). I assume that still refers to the rotary switch and not a momentary related to the recovery mode.

[Graeme]

Enabling recovery mode doesn't do any calibrations so no need to ensure the suspension system is able to level at normal and off-road heights, which can only be done with the engine running and the doors closed. It will enable as long as the battery is connected and the main suspension fuse is fitted, even if the ignition is off. If the Llams module looses its power supply it will revert to standard operation.

Yes, the reference is to the rotary switch. If it transpires that a momentary switch becomes desireable, I might get to include a miniature switch on a short lead (500mm?) to save people having to chase around finding suitable bits. The cost of parts is minimal and a lead wouldn't take long to assemble.

[bbyer]

If it transpires that a momentary switch becomes desirable, I might get to include a miniature switch on a short lead (500mm?) to save people having to chase around finding suitable bits. The cost of parts is minimal and a lead wouldn't take long to assemble. Actually I was thinking that it would be nice if say a length of wire about a meter long was included, (but no switch.)

Ideally the wire would have terminals or whatever to slip over the two pins, (as that would preclude me melting the circuit board). With regard to a momentary switch as everyone would have a different idea of where the hidden momentary switch should be located and what it should look like, and momentary are easy to find near anywhere, (Mundiwindi or Tanami, well maybe not), that the switch need not be included.

[gazm3]

sounds like a great solution. Ill get this right there are 5 modes instead of 3. The standard air suspension seems to have disembark mode (low), normal, and off road (high), selectable from the toggle. Will I be able to drive in high mode more than 50km/h?

[Graeme]

Hi Gazm3,

The cabin switch has 4 positions, -20mm (high-speed height, not access height), OFF, +30mm & +50mm (nominally off-road height). These height adjustments are when the air suspension system is at normal on-road height but can also be used at access and off-road heights with close to the same height adjustments. When used at normal height, no speed restrictions occur because there are no speed restrictions at normal height, excepting for a sustained 160 kph or more where the vehicle will lower by 20mm.

The new recovery feature, for use when the suspension lowers to around access height ('suspension lowering' or similar message) when some other system fault occurs, is enabled by opening the module box with the Llams switch set at +50 and connecting 2 pins together with a screw-driver (or key etc) or by pressing a momentary switch if one has been installed. This mode changes the height adjustments so that the +30 switch setting gives the usual +50 adjustment and the +50 setting gives double the usual +50 setting. This special mode is provided because when at access height, the usual +50 adjustment only provides on-road height whereas double +50 provides off-road height so that if off-road height is actually needed, it can be obtained. The suspension system will not lower the vehicle at 50 kph in recovery +50 because it thinks the vehicle is still at the proper height, just like it does with any other Llams switch setting.

The recovery +50 when used at normal height is about super-extended height and whilst the suspension will stay raised at that height regardless of speed, it could be dangerous and thus irresponsible to drive at more than just slowly at this height. Its about the same height as normal Llams +50 when in off-road mode and that's limited to 50 kph because of using off-road mode, but even that speed could be too fast in a lot of circumstances. Super-extended height is normally limited to a very slow speed but being able to select that height without grounding the vehicle first is a significant benefit, but it needs to be used responsibly.

[robertj]

Just returned from Moreton after installing the LLams unit and all I can say is that it's brilliant. I was there a fortnight earlier without it and was "bonged to death" so thanks to the clever people who developed this gear - I can whole heartedly recommend it !

[Tote]

Just Like to add my feedback for this product. We have just completed a trip from Dalhousie across the Rig road and from Poepells corner up the Hay River to Jervois. Most of the time in the sand I used the +30mm setting with ocasional changes to +50 in the sandier spots.
The system just works and I did not have any of the damage sustained by the other Disco 3 who bottomed out on several occasions due to the suspension dropping as we got up to 50KM/H . I also was not driven crazy by the constant "bongs" alerting me to slow down or the vehicle would lower.
Excellent product, easy to install and I am happy to recommend it.

Regards,
Tote

[Graeme]

Here's a note for the V1.1 modules that support recovery mode.

If a remote mode switch is fitted and it is inadvertantly operated with the Llams height switch OFF (starts a re-calibration), switching to HIGH then operating the mode switch again will cancel the re-calibration process and enable recovery mode. If recovery mode is not required then momentarily switch to LOW to cancel recovery mode.

[NavyDiver]

LLams turned up. Wiring looked easy enough and thanks to Rich for instructions (http://www.box.net/shared/zzgi1qs5rt)for V1.1 installed and ready to calibrate. :D.
Tried to raise several times with faults stopping the lot. Turned off and restarted repeatedly with only a tiny raise before faults brought me back to normal. :( , battery off and rechecked all connections - all locked and snug, Same result:(

Added loop back to loom to see if it was a loom or control fault and had the same issue. Control box is probebly fine:)

Battery off- loom off and everything exculding my new LLAMS works. I was worried I might have damaged the cars wiring while unplugging to plugging in the new loom in but no issues :D.

I will send loom back to get tested but thankfully my trip next week is not faulty:D. I build a lot of computers and wiring with plugs as big as these is pretty stright forward. Might still be a ME issue though as there is no bent pins in loom make me feel it is not a me issue:D:D:D

Riches great guide missed getting the cover around the radio off I think. it was very easy just gently at the bottom of the cover on either side after page 6 and before page 7 (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire). I used a small dowel with the wire taped to it to get the switch wire (shown on page seven (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire)) to the very back very quickly after fiddling for a bit.

[Graeme]

Weakestlink,
I can swap the loom. There have been some problems with some of the sockets in the grey connector that plugs into the ecu, although I seem to catch most. That connector needs to be fully and evenly pressed home as even slightly back on 1 end can cause problems.

[~Rich~]

LLams turned up. Wiring looked easy enough and thanks to Rich for instructions (http://www.box.net/shared/zzgi1qs5rt)for V1.1 installed and ready to calibrate. :D.
No problem, thanks.



Riches great guide missed getting the cover around the radio off I think. it was very easy just gently at the bottom of the cover on either side after page 6 and before page 7 (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire). I used a small dowel with the wire taped to it to get the switch wire (shown on page seven (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire)) to the very back very quickly after fiddling for a bit.

I think you will find in the Switch PDF it shows how to remove the radio trim!
D3 Switch Installation:
http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire (http://www.box.net/shared/y90mhxmire)

[NavyDiver]

Weakestlink,
I can swap the loom. There have been some problems with some of the sockets in the grey connector that plugs into the ecu, although I seem to catch most. That connector needs to be fully and evenly pressed home as even slightly back on 1 end can cause problems.

Thanks Graeme. I will hold off sending the loom back. I have found a fault in a connector on the OME loom. Found one of the other plugs being slightly out giving errors occasional susspension errors. I checked the lot and everything is now working. Given the fault with out the LLAMS loom installed I assume the LLAMS loom is fine and the fault was me slightly knock off line one of the pugs I had not meant to touch!!! Whoops and sorry! I will reinstall the LLAMS loom again when I get back from my trip.:D
Thanks again Rich for the intall guides.

[adzee]

I am due to pick up my new ride Friday arvo, hoping to hear back regarding payment options and price etc. Hope to have this same day as the car. :D

[Graeme]

Hi Adzee,
You might want to phone as sometimes it seems that emails take a while to be read.

I'm not a subscriber to Disco3 and having already stretched their advertising rules somewhat, I didn't want to become unwelcome by telling you outright from where the Llams could be purchased.

[bbyer]

This is a link that might be useful; a phone call would seem better however.

Llams PTY LTD (http://www.llams.com.au/)

[adzee]

Hi Adzee,
You might want to phone as sometimes it seems that emails take a while to be read.

I'm not a subscriber to Disco3 and having already stretched their advertising rules somewhat, I didn't want to become unwelcome by telling you outright from where the Llams could be purchased.

All good mate! I have now begun the epic task of trawling both forums to absorb as much as possible. Realistically how long do you think this will take to install?

[Graeme]

Several people have fitted the module and done the calibration within 30 mins. Fitting the switch will probably take another hour or so if its to be fitted to the panel behind the park brake switch. If the switch is fitted to the left steering wheel cover, it will take a lot less time. The LED is generally not visible when mounted on the steering wheel cover but this doesn't seem to be a concern to those who have mounted it there. One soon gets used to the different stance and handing of lower or higher than normal - I do mostly but not today driving at +30 at low speed including through round-a-bouts. I noticed it when I got out though, then remembered reversing out of an angled driveway.

[adzee]

Turns out I will be picking it up tomorrow! :D:D:D

Cannot wait, and if I get the Llams tomorrow I know what I'll be doing at 3am. hehehe

[disco_driver]

Turns out I will be picking it up tomorrow! :D:D:D

Cannot wait, and if I get the Llams tomorrow I know what I'll be doing at 3am. hehehe


I ordered mine on Fri. Or was it Thursday. It it goes express post I might get it on tomorrow. Woohoo.

[adzee]

I ordered mine on Fri. Or was it Thursday. It it goes express post I might get it on tomorrow. Woohoo.

Did you just pick that Disco up? I think I saw it on carsales...

I hope I can fit mine on Wednesday night. After this weekend I know its sooo going to be worth it!

[disco_driver]

Did you just pick that Disco up? I think I saw it on carsales...

I hope I can fit mine on Wednesday night. After this weekend I know its sooo going to be worth it!


Yes got the car about a week ok. Going great so far. Love the way it drives. Big difference to my old 60 series cruiser.

I miss the height though so hence the llams system. Can't wait.

[disco_driver]

Graeme,

I received the loom form Davies Performance and started installing it when I realised that there is a loose wire that is not coneected to anything on the loom. Its been stripped back so I'm assuming it's supposed to be crimped onto one of the connectors. It is a black wire that I'm assuming goes between the 2 #1 connectors on the loom. I can see that there is a blank space on one of the connectors.

Is there supposed to be a wire in each of the sockets? If so this is where the wire is supposed to be. Therefore how do I recrimp this? Is it possible to remove the metal connector within the socket or are these not removable.

I'd love to be able to sort it out here rather than having to send back and waiting a few more days.

Does anyone know Graeme's phone number? Perhaps calling him might be quicker.

[Graeme]

Sorry for the faulty loom.

There is a black wire that runs between the 2 black connectors and another black wire from the male black connector to the connector for the Llams module. Most likely the wire has pulled out of its crimp at one of the black connectors (it would be a 1st), but perhaps I missed soldering it to the module connector (would also be a 1st). I can post a replacement loom directly to you today if you PM your address.

Edit: The black connectors are meant to be fully populated.

[Graeme]

I assume the wire has come from the female connector. The cap can be released by prizing each end with a very small screw-driver then the socket retaining clip released thus allowing the socket to be removed from behind. I would not expect the wire to be reliably re-crimped but soldering it should be OK.

I would prefer to send a replacement loom and for the faulty one to be returned when the replacement arrives. I don't have replacement sockets (I get the looms made in the UK in sets) so would hope to repair that one.

[disco_driver]

Graeme,

No problem, As discussed with you on the phone, I got it fixed. I extracted the metal crimp connector and re-crimped it. It seems to be quite well secured so I went with that. The guys at Davies Performance made sure I was putting it ion the right place over the phone. They had another one they could look at.

I appreciate your replies and you time on the phone. The system seems to work well. The +50 height in offroad mode gives great clearance and will certainly give me more confort off-road.

Thanks again. Yev

[adzee]

I FINALLY got time to install my kit last night. A lot of wires up under the dash, incredibly impressed with your crafty workmanship!!! Only issue I had doing it was trying to mount the black box, so I screwed it to the rubbery back wall lightly, it was my best fix cause the velcro wouldnt stay on anywhere. Love this and am looking forward to been offroad this coming weekend. Thanks!

[Graeme]

Thanks Adzee.

There's a horizonal spot low on the inside of the plastic panel behind the removable panel that is just big enough for the velcro and box, albeit a bit tricky to get it good enough.

[101RRS]

Having purchased LLAMS early in the year I finally got around to fitting it today. No problems with the kick panel and the steering column panel but the pedal cover would not come out - took the Torx screws out but the panel stayed connected to something up under the centre console - managed to pull it out but it is damaged in the area that goes under the centre console and will require a little plastic welding to fix.

After a little while I was able to find the ECU connectors and pull them off and put in the new ones. All went well.

I then went down to the local park to calibrate the system on the flat. This is what I managed to achieve measured at the top of the front wheel arch.

When set to offroad height and -30 set it actually dropped 35mm
With +30 set I only managed 25mm and on +50 only managed 45mm.

With offroad height set I did not get any height rise when +30 was selected and when I selected +50 I only managed to get 20mm which was disappointing.

I did not get any fault messages.

I will go back down tomorrow when everything is cold and redo the calibration and see how we go then.

Garry

[101RRS]

I am now at the stage of mounting the controlling switch which I want to put on the flat section of the steering column case - on the left side near the bottom.

I have found and taken out the two torx screws at the bottom of the casing up near the steering the wheel, but the bottom half of the casing still does come clear.

So can someone who has mounted the switch there let me know how the bottom half of the steering column casing comes off.

Thanks

Garry

[Graeme]

I will go back down tomorrow when everything is cold and redo the calibration and see how we go then.
It could be useful if you were to measure the heights when at normal and off-road heights of 2 wheels on 1 side of the vehicle during the calibration process, ie after switching Llams to -20 whilst at normal height then again when at off-road height but before switching Llams to +50. However when the vehicle levels as a result of what it thinks is weight being added or removed, it seems to have a wide dead-band where near enough is good enough until the vehicle is driven. Driving a little distance with Llams at +50 is more likely to produce the off-road height that existed at calibration time.

Whilst I fitted a driving light switch to my steering wheel cover, I cannot remember just how the cover was attached. I'll have a look later if no-one provides the clues.

[101RRS]

I have found and taken out the two torx screws at the bottom of the casing up near the steering the wheel, but the bottom half of the casing still does come clear.

I found there is a third torx screw - removed it then just removed the bottom casing with brute force - the fun is getting it back in as the screw holes do not line up - only took 2 hours and bit of blood spillage to get it back in.

[101RRS]

It could be useful if you were to measure the heights when at normal and off-road heights of 2 wheels on 1 side of the vehicle during the calibration process, ie after switching Llams to -20 whilst at normal height then again when at off-road height but before switching Llams to +50. However when the vehicle levels as a result of what it thinks is weight being added or removed, it seems to have a wide dead-band where near enough is good enough until the vehicle is driven. Driving a little distance with Llams at +50 is more likely to produce the off-road height that existed at calibration time.

Will do

Can you confirm that in the calibration process you use the -20 and +50 settings and it is not necessary to do a +30 one - I didn't do it today.

I will go for a short drive after each change as well - it will take a bit of heat out of the compressor as well as help settle the height.

Cheers

Garry

[Graeme]

Once the calibration process has been triggered by connecting the calibration pins with the Llams height switch off, the -20 setting is used to tell the module to remember the current sensor voltages (vehicle expected to be at normal height), then the module waits for the +50 setting (expecting the vehicle to now be at off-road height as per instructions) whereupon the module will calculate the change in sensor voltages between normal and off-road heights. This change in sensor voltages is the basis for adjusting the sensor voltages so that the ecu thinks the vehicle is lower or higher than it really is. +30 is 60% of the change and -20 is -40% of the change.

Don't move the vehicle to a different spot during calibration if the surface isn't flat. I've concluded that there's no advantage to moving the vehicle at all during calibration, prefering just to ensure that the compressor is not hot so that the vehicle gets to off-road height quickly and fully. Furthermore the surface doesn't need to be flat, only that if 1 or 2 wheels are in depressions the sensor voltage change may be slightly different compared with the wheels in their normal position. A slope may cause 1 side or end to lean more at off-road height than at normal height and therefore the voltage change would be slightly different left to right or front to rear.

[101RRS]

Thanks for that - I live on a hill so have to take the car down to the carpark in the local park and do it there - all nice and flat and a good surface.

Certainly have calibrated in accordance with instructions etc - so will do the same but when testing afterwards I will go for a small drive around the park after selecting a height and measure after the drive.

Cheers

Garry

[101RRS]

When set to onroad height and -20 set it actually dropped 35mm
With +30 set I only managed 25mm and on +50 only managed 45mm.

With offroad height set I did not get any height rise when +30 was selected and when I selected +50 I only managed to get 20mm which was disappointing.

I will go back down tomorrow when everything is cold and redo the calibration and see how we go then.

Garry

Well I recalibrated and tested again - this time to save heat build up in the compressor - I started at the highest position and basically let the air out with minimal use of the compressor.

Overall results were similar to yesterday but did manage to get 40mm when +50 is selected when at offroad height. Graeme I will PM you the actual result so you can see if they are in specs.

After I finished recording the results I switched off LLAMS and did another test using the car systems.

Access to onroad was 65mm, onroad to offroad was 40mm. I then put the jack under the chassis and lowered it and it went into extended mode but it did not lift off the jack - it lifted the rear another 15mm but actually dropped 5mm at the front - the car seemed to be pivoting in the jack but not lifting it clear - so overall there was no height increase in extended over offroad even though the dash indicated it was in extended.

Then holding the up button down for 3 secs while having the brakes on to go into super extended mode did absolutely nothing, no indications (is there a dash indication you are in super extended) and no lift.

It was then that the compressor decided it needed a rest and a cool down but not all that surprising given the up and down testing that I had done.

It seems I have no trouble lifting the car up to offroad height but after that the system whether it be via +50 LLAMS or going into extended mode just does not want to play.

Garry

[Graeme]

Overall results were similar to yesterday but did manage to get 40mm when +50 is selected when at offroad height. Graeme I will PM you the actual result so you can see if they are in specs.
This is typical. The 50/55mm lift is from normal height but a little less from off-road height. However your PM'd measurements indicate that all's not quite right.

[101RRS]

Thanks to Graeme for great follow up support.

During initial testing it started to become clear to me that the OEM inflation system is marginal and quickly performance drops off with use and testing LLAMS started to push it over its limits. To be fair though in actual use the system would not be being raised and lowered a few times over a short period of time.

To be sure it was not a LLAMs issue Graeme sent me another module that went straight in with only one skinned finger. Results were very similar and showed that the car's compressor was able to pump up the car when at onroad height but when at offroad height the pump struggles to get to last 5-10mm out of the airbags.

With LLAMS on and the compressor cold I was quite impressed with the additional lift. Some poor pics of the lift achieved at Offroad Height +50mm when compared to access height. Also my new cruising height of onroad -20mm - does seem to improve handling a bit and ease getting in and out.

Access Height
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/18102011001.jpg

Offroad Height +50mm
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/18102011.jpg

My new driving height - Onroad Height -20mm
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/Forum%20Posts%20Album/IMG_04571.jpg

LLAMS controller on the steering column - the key is a switch to raise the vehicle when the dreaded suspension fault occurs and it goes down to the bump stops.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

Thanks to Graeme for the product and support - works great.

Cheers

Garry

[Graeme]

Thanks Garry. The returned module showed that 1 IC for a rear sensor had no adjustments stored (not calibrated?), which would have caused the rear to not raise or lower properly. As yet I have not determined why this has happened because the module seems to be OK. My PM to you tonight contains more details.

The recovery mode works if the suspension has been lowered but wont work if the vehicle is on the bump-stops.

Edit: It was the right rear that didn't get calibrated although the initial test values that are loaded with the program to test the circuit board had been cleared by the end-of-test bench calibration with same normal and off-road height sensor values. The absence of a calibration value would occur if at calibration there was no voltage on that IC's calibrate pin or no voltage on that IC's switch pin or no incoming sensor voltage. As the IC pulls out of its socket very easily on the sensor signal side, the cause may have been be loss of sensor signal during calibration due to poor contact.

The trigger for suspecting a faulty module was that +50 only had the rear about half as high as off-road height yet the front, which finishes rising last, was at the full off-road height.

Another edit: The cause could not have been a loss of sensor signal as the suspension ecu would have shown a fault so must have been no calibration signal or no switch signal to that IC.

[NavyDiver]

Thanks Graeme. I will hold off sending the loom back. I have found a fault in a connector on the OME loom. Found one of the other plugs being slightly out giving errors occasional susspension errors. I checked the lot and everything is now working. Given the fault with out the LLAMS loom installed I assume the LLAMS loom is fine and the fault was me slightly knock off line one of the pugs I had not meant to touch!!! Whoops and sorry! I will reinstall the LLAMS loom again when I get back from my trip.:D
Thanks again Rich for the install guides.

My battery, reflashed Suspension control with much more uptodate software (I should have done that before!) new compressor (Ouch) LLams is now working perfectly. All faults existed before LLams installed. About to put my D3 to hard use in the Vic Alps tommorrow night! Flood warnings all over the place here in and in the High Country could see LLams earn it price very quickly :D:D:D:D

[adzee]

How much was the compressor if you don't mind me asking?

[NavyDiver]

How much was the compressor if you don't mind me asking?

compressor was about $850 plus install as I am slack:)

LLams has a interesting effect on my fuel use. Running up and back to Ballarat from melbourne on the weekend, Was crusing at 110kph I was reseting the Fuel usage. Running at normal hight into a stong head wind with my roof rack I was getting about 13.5 Litres per 100 km (Lp100km)
lowering using LLams returned an average of 12 Lp100km

Coming back was normal height 11 Lp100km and lowered with LLams 9.5 Lp100km.

LLams has advantages for me at time even when I am not getting very muddy:D

[ADMIRAL]

compressor was about $850 plus install as I am slack:)

LLams has a interesting effect on my fuel use. Running up and back to Ballarat from melbourne on the weekend, Was crusing at 110kph I was reseting the Fuel usage. Running at normal hight into a stong head wind with my roof rack I was getting about 13.5 Litres per 100 km (Lp100km)
lowering using LLams returned an average of 12 Lp100km

Coming back was normal height 11 Lp100km and lowered with LLams 9.5 Lp100km.

LLams has advantages for me at time even when I am not getting very muddy:D

Seems logical, the lower the vehicle, the less airflow under the vehicle, the less drag. Just be aware that running a D3/D4 at other than the height the vehicle was at when the wheels were aligned for long periods,( particularly on blacktop ) will have a detrimental effect on your tyre wear.

[400HPONGAS]

Graeme , recently bought 3 new LLAMS kits , fited two of them last weekend , (2006 and 2009 D3's)no Problems ,easy as ! For the calibration task ,Simply fitted the Reset switch and lead that comes out of any Desktop/tower Computer case , perfect 2 pin connection with push button (switch is Normally open with spring loaded return ) just taped it to the controller lead , now whenever calibration is required , just reach in behind and give it a press ., easy as ! Both owners commented that it was the best $550 ever spent on their D3's.

[Graeme]

Thanks 400HPONGAS for the positive feedback. I heard that someone recently ordered 3 kits which prompted DPL to request some more. Be careful not to accidentally press the button with Llams OFF as this will start a new calibration. I've mounted a small button switch in the flexible web below the steering wheel where it is accessible to enable recovery mode but unlikely to be accidentally pressed.

[Graeme]

.. fitted the Reset switch and lead that comes out of any Desktop/tower Computer case , perfect 2 pin connection with push button..
I've very recently started including a short lead with connector and miniature button switch. If anyone would like one, just PM me your address as the parts cost less than $1 (I buy in bulk) and the leads only take 10 minutes to make-up.

[Redback]

Tested it all out today, worked a treat, of coarse we had a couple of dumbarse moments, firstly when installing it and then not knowing which way it went for up and down, but we worked it out.

We had to put the switch at the front of the cubby box, the D4 doesn't have any other spot with enough room, but it actually looks quite good where it is.

The wire from the switch could be about 100mm to 150mm longer if mounting where we have it.

Thanks Graeme for your help with our seniors moment with the install:angel:

So all good now:D

Baz.

[Graeme]

The wire from the switch could be about 100mm to 150mm longer if mounting where we have it.
A 200-250 mm switch extension lead is ready for posting tomorrow.
I have just started making the switch leads 100 mm longer so hopefully these will be long enough if anyone else puts the switch in the same place.

I made inquiries about a switch label but didn't find anything that I thought would be sufficiently suitable. If the switch is operated prior to starting to calibrate, the LED soon reveals the positions for the various settings. However I obviously need to improve the instructions - anti-clockwise is to lower, clockwise is to raise.

[Redback]

I forgot to add this, we are getting a suspension fault (only normal height available) with the yellow triangle and the ! in it, it is coming up after using the Llams.

I notice in the first post about cycling the ignition, what does this mean:confused:
Is it just turning it on and off, before restarting the car:confused:

This morning it wouldn't clear and the standard height buttons would only flash and the car wouldn't go up or down.

Baz.

[Tombie]

Tested it all out today, worked a treat, of coarse we had a couple of dumbarse moments, firstly when installing it and then not knowing which way it went for up and down, but we worked it out.

We had to put the switch at the front of the cubby box, the D4 doesn't have any other spot with enough room, but it actually looks quite good where it is.

The wire from the switch could be about 100mm to 150mm longer if mounting where we have it.

Thanks Graeme for your help with our seniors moment with the install:angel:

So all good now:D

Baz.

Baz

Did you consider the steering column - down on the left where the electric adjustment would go?

[Redback]

Baz

Did you consider the steering column - down on the left where the electric adjustment would go?

No I didn't, that's where the driving light switch is going and we didn't want two switches there.

Baz.

[Graeme]

I forgot to add this, we are getting a suspension fault (only normal height available) with the yellow triangle and the ! in it, it is coming up after using the Llams.
Hi Baz,
Make sure all 4 ecu connectors are fully and evenly home, ie including ones not replaced with Llams connectors although the grey Llams one is often the culprit as its clip is not on centre so the plug may not be fully in at both ends. Also make sure the module loom connector is pushed right in and that the screws are even and not loose.

Cycle the ignition - yes, turn it off then on again.

Edit: Perhaps the switch cable being short is pulling on the loom connectors.

[Redback]

Hi Baz,
Make sure all 4 ecu connectors are fully and evenly home, ie including ones not replaced with Llams connectors although the grey Llams one is often the culprit as its clip is not on centre so the plug may not be fully in at both ends. Also make sure the module loom connector is pushed right in and that the screws are even and not loose.

Cycle the ignition - yes, turn it off then on again.

Edit: Perhaps the switch cable being short is pulling on the loom connectors.

Thanks Graeme, we'll try that, Kerry managed to clear the symbol by engaging the +30mm height in the Llams, this also allowed her to raise and lower the car, which it wouldn't with the Llams off and the fault symbol on.

Baz.

[Redback]

I thought I'd give a big thank you to Graeme for sorting our little issue with the Llams system, Graeme personnally came out and met us at Tumbarumba and fixed the problem, thanks Graeme:BigThumb:

Baz.

[Graeme]

You're welcome Baz - it was a nice change in scenery. Llams should have worked properly from the outset though hence the reason for the particular loom sockets now getting the modification as a preventative.

[101RRS]

I was up in the Bridle Track area on the weekend and drove down to the junction of the Turon and Macquarie Rivers - the last few Km were driving through the rocky river bed and fording the river a few times.

It was very rocky with large river boulders and LLAMS came into its own - while driving in at offroad height and LLAMS up on maximum, I only heard bashing under the car once - max water depth was probably to the top of the wheel.

Coming back out I switched LLAMS off and stayed at offroad height - and there was constants banging of large rocks banging away underneath - with LLAMS back up to max no banging underneath.

As forward speed was generally less than 10kph the ability of LLAMS to override speed restrictions did not come into it but the ability to raise to almost the equivalent super extended was a real benefit and prevented damage underneath.

No pics of my car as I was driving.

Cheers

Garry

[lrdef110]

Got to ditto that Gary. I spent 18 days in the Vic High Country before Christmas, with a total of over 50 water crossings. I typically ran on the LR off road height and clicked in Llams for the water crosssings or where large rock outcrops were on the track. Worked a treat.
Barry

[~Rich~]

I too was up the mountains over the weekend, LLAMS worked perfectly without any errors occuring.
No banging either, I had more underdiff clearance than the Landcruisers running 35" tyres!
I did scrape the rear bumper a couple of times coming down some really steep steps but it survived.
I don't know if any of you guys get 4wd Action magazine but they had a DVD not long ago with a Mt Walker trip, the last climb to the top Roothy had to winch up I drove :)
The guys where surprized how easily it drove most obstacles while lifting wheels most impressingly.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2012/04/354.jpg

This camera angle does not show the depth of the holes or the rocks the hidden side.

[Graeme]

After having upset the connections on mine by roughly pulling on my disconnected brake controller cable when its connector had become entangled with the Llams loom and some other wiring, I followed someone's suggestion (sorry, I can't remember whose) of mounting the module on the suspension ecu itself using stick-on velcro. IMO its a perfect spot as there's plenty of room for the module and the looms are out of the way and can be wedged so that they don't bounce about.

[101RRS]

I followed someone's suggestion (sorry, I can't remember whose) of mounting the module on the suspension ecu itself using stick-on velcro.

That would be me :D.

[Graeme]

Llams may currently be incompatible with 2010+ RRS so best not to purchase a kit for such vehicles until the situation is clarified.

Two different Llams kits of the most recent version produced identical right front and right rear height sensor faults immediately upon fitment. No faults remained once Llams was removed. The specific features of this RRS are being ascertained along with the suspension differences between the 2010 RRS and D4.

An update will be posted as information becomes available.

Edit: A much higher pwm signal frequency specification in the Llams software can almost eliminate an interpretted (but not real) fluctuation in sensor voltage by a 2010 D4 suspension ecu, in case the fluctuation is the cause of the faults in the 2010 RRS. More info when available, meanwhile the D4 tests the updated s/w.

[Graeme]

The 2010 RRS uses a physically different suspension ecu to the 2010 D4, as indicated by the canbus wires being located in different connectors. Therefore in light of the particular suspension faults, it appears that Llams is not currently compatible with 2010+ RRS. If the particular RRS is fitted with ecu-controlled shocks (CVD - introduced in 2010 to the RRS) then Llams might be compatible, but unlikely as the CVD ecu is distinct from the suspension ecu yet the same suspension ecu is used regardless. The higher frequency pwm signal testing has been terminated but if the opportunity arises, research into the incompatibility will occur.

[Graeme]

Progress report: The 2010 RRS faults with the 1st kit occurred on a test drive after successful calibration and were consistant with a poor/intermitant loom connection, which means there is not a compatibity issue. The faults with the 2nd kit (with the modified connector) were different and in view of the successful calibration of the 1st kit, I've probably messed-up wiring the loom/module connector. White with black trace (RR to ecu) is hard to distinguish from white with dark green trace (RF from height sensor).

[Graeme]

Llams is indeed compatible with the 2010 RRS.

The faults were caused by 2 crossed wires at the loom module connector. Many thanks to Sovereign Motors in Adelaide for spending the time and effort in resolving the problem and to the RRS owner for making the vehicle available multiple times.

[Graeme]

Following from the last post, I now have a device to test that the loom connector is wired correctly in order to prevent further faults of this nature.

[Graeme]

Llams looms can now be comprehensively tested so that they shouldn't cause suspension faults compared with previously when only a visual inspection and some precautionery socket contact improvement was done. 10 recently-returned looms that caused faults all failed testing, mostly due to 1 or more poor contacts in 1 socket but a few other faults were also detected. All looms were easily corrected.

If a vehicle whilst fitted with Llams is showing suspension faults when using normal mode with Llams at any setting or with Llams off and attempting to use access, normal or off-road modes or is getting the rising slowly message early when the compressor is cold, I encourage the Llams loom be removed and sent to the address below to have it fixed or replaced if necessary and usually back in the post the following day. Only the loom needs to be sent but if the module is the original version (V1) and the recovery option has not been implemented (still has calibration posts 1,2,3 rather than only 2,3) then the module can also be sent for updating, but will need to be recalibrated when refitted. If the module already supports recovery mode but you don't have a remote switch to use recovery mode then please indicate that you would like a remote switch. The loop-back plug will also be tested if sent.

Please post to Llams Pty Ltd, Marrar NSW 2652. There is no time limit on this offer but I would prefer to clean-up any outstanding faulty looms sooner rather than later.

[Graeme]

I am pleased to announce that Land Rover Spares at Mackay in north QLD (07) 4957 5854 will also stock the Llams height controller kits for D3/D4/RRS/RR Vogue MY2007+ vehicles within a few days. The RRP is unchanged at $594 incl GST, with fitting available if required for an additional cost. Land Rover Spares have some experience with the kits and has diagnostic equipment if needed, although fitting and calibration does not require the use of such equipment.

The llams.com.au website will soon be updated to show the additional stockist.

[Graeme]

The knob supplied for the height switch was changed from the original small black one shown in Rich's installation guides to this one for its similarity to D4 switches.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/05/1371.jpg
The original is Jaycar HK7707, the current one is HK7740.

[Graeme]

Thanks to Rich, detailed installation and usage documentation including V2 modules is now available from https://www.box.com/s/46ezof3vcgc9zvo2i9do (https://www.box.com/s/46ezof3vcgc9zvo2i9do)

[AnD3rew]

Hey Greame do you have just a short clear one page operating instructions sheet that I can print out and keep in the car?

[Graeme]

Hi Andrew,

This is the latest installation sheet that's included with the kit in case the kit was fitted by someone else and the sheet wasn't handed over. Let me know if this doesn't meet your needs. The 2nd page might be what you're looking for.
54357

[AnD3rew]

Hi Andrew,

This is the latest installation sheet that's included with the kit in case the kit was fitted by someone else and the sheet wasn't handed over. Let me know if this doesn't meet your needs. The 2nd page might be what you're looking for.
54357

That'll do, but I still think it would be helpful to just have a I page set f just operating instructions. Till then I have printed that and put it in the glove box.

[adzee]

That'll do, but I still think it would be helpful to just have a I page set f just operating instructions. Till then I have printed that and put it in the glove box.

You could always do one your self?

I have stored the full copy minus the installation part in my glove box, and I also store a digital version of documents like this on my phone. Always have a back up! ;)

[adzee]

Graeme just wanted to report my ecstatic view again on this product! Installed new amk compressor, and got the software updates and reset suspension ecu and it still works a treat. I was expecting to have to reset it, but very happy to not have to worry. Thanks!

[Graeme]

That'll do, but I still think it would be helpful to just have a I page set of just operating instructions. Till then I have printed that and put it in the glove box.
I'll look at providing a quick reference card similar to the brief instruction label that's inside the black box.

[Trngia]

Hi Graeme and all... I received my kit in the post last week and attempted to fit it whilst away over this long weekend. After fitting I could not clear the suspension error message even after several resets, checked the loom and disconnecting and reconnecting the battery etc.

In the end I just had the loom fitted with the serial port connected to make a pass through. I still had the error with this so conclusion is it could be the wiring loom at fault or is there something else I should be trying?

Rich.

[Graeme]

Hi Rich,

Your conclusion is most likely correct. I will post a replacement loom today.

[Trngia]

Thanks Graeme. All installed and working.

[Graeme]

Can anyone suggest a place to mount the rotary switch in a MY13 RRS? The steering column spot is already occupied so looking for other suggestions. I've not seen the insides of any late model RRSs.
TIA.

[Graeme]

I have discovered that the source of suspension faults caused by lost loom connections is likely to be at the loom join of the 2 grey connectors. This is due to the pins in the Llams grey male connector being short combined with the Llams shell being somewhat flexible which allows the 2 connectors to partially come apart.

I recommend that a cable-tie be fitted around the middle of the 2 grey connectors, threaded through both bundles of wires to prevent any future problems. Future kits will include a cable-tie for this purpose.

[Graeme]

A picture showing how the cable-tie is fitted. Please excuse that I have used 2 Llams looms for ease of taking the picture.
http://www.aulro.com/app/data/1093/Cable-tie.jpg

[Datt]

Mods, I hope this is ok to do.

I would just like to thank Graeme for his assistance in relation to my Llams unit. I had a very minor issue with mine and sent a PM seeking help. I received a very prompt reply that sorted the problem and had me on my way again.

Matt.

p.s. I have no vested interest in the product or as a result of my statement. I simply wanted to acknowledge good support in the hope that it continues for the benefit of everyone.

[Graeme]

In searching for the reason why some looms can still cause various but mostly front valve faults I have determined that the cause is still the partial parting of the grey joined connectors where the LR grey connector plugs into the grey Llams connector but that the location of the cable tie in the centre of the connectors, as shown in a picture (now deleted to avoid incorrect advice) in a preceding post, is not always adequate. A revised recommendation is to fit the cable tie between the 1st and 2nd set of wires from the long side where the thicker black wire is located.

This will cause various faults:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/483.jpg


This is good but can be distorted to loose contact:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/484.jpg


This cannot loose contact:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/08/485.jpg

[retrovmx]

Thanks Graeme the cable tie done the trick to start with but still plays up a bit with the suspension “raising slowly” starting to be indicated again.

I have installed the Controller switch into the ashtray location and I have changed out the Special Mode switch to a small rotary key switch – I had to lengthen the cable on the Special Mode switch.



Link to raised photo http://www.aulro.com/afvb/introductions/183320-hi-all-supercharged-sport-process-transformation.html



Thanks for this thread in helping out the install.

[Graeme]

The raising slowly message has nothing directly to do with Llams. The message occurs when the compressor cannot raise the vehicle quickly enough which may just that a big change in height is required but maybe the compressor isn't working as quickly as it should, perhaps due to a clogged dryer or worn-out exhaust valve or the compressor itself is failing.

The key switch is a good way to prevent accidental usage with the switch mounted in such an accessible spot.

[BobJ]

The system just works and I did not have any of the damage sustained by the other Disco 3 who bottomed out on several occasions due to the suspension dropping as we got up to 50KM/H .
Excellent product, easy to install and I am happy to recommend it.
Regards,
Tote

Very nice, you just purchased a new product that raises the height of the vehicle.

And just by chance the LR3 without the height ignores the warning that his system will lower and is driving over 50kmh and then runs over pot holes that hit hard enough to damage it.

Yet you, with the extra inches hit the same pot holes going over 50kph and no damage, not even a bent rim.

Thats a tall story you have fabricated to make the investment seem better.

[Tombie]

Very nice, you just purchased a new product that raises the height of the vehicle.

And just by chance the LR3 without the height ignores the warning that his system will lower and is driving over 50kmh and then runs over pot holes that hit hard enough to damage it.

Yet you, with the extra inches hit the same pot holes going over 50kph and no damage, not even a bent rim.

Thats a tall story you have fabricated to make the investment seem better.

Welcome to the forum BobJ - Nice first post... :eek:

Until you understand the context perhaps you should sit back and be less of a... I dont know.... ****** :cool:

The issue is not potholes, its the centre ridge under the vehicles belly plate that often does the damage, and when following tracks its often impossible to avoid being in the wheel ruts which places you right inline with this issue.

Combine this with the fact that our tracks can (and do) go for well over a thousand miles and the 50km/h restriction is not viable for outback travel.

A device such as LLAMS which allows this to be over-ridden really does have a significant benefit when traveling and the convenience of twisting a selector to pick the suspension height is brilliant.

On a recent 1400 mile run, we needed the additional bump travel of extra lift, however were traveling at 70-90mph for long undulating and corrugated sections (went out to our former nuclear test site)...
Without the +30mm function the vehicle would thump the bump stops, raised +30mm and it was a pleasant and comfortable ride (for 8-10 hours at a time).


So whilst I welcome you to our happy forum, and hope you can enjoy it here - If you wish to continue in the vein of this, your first post - May I suggest you stick your Cranium where the sun has no luminance and be careful that the door you entered via doesn't hit you on your posterior as you exit.

[Redback]

Not a tall stary sunshine, fact, I have seen this system in action when out with friends.

Besides, you don't have to buy the system, knowone is twisting your arm, just recommending it.

Also, not the best first post by someone, is this how you speak to everyone for the first time, have some manners mate!!!

Baz.

[Homestar]

So whilst I welcome you to our happy forum, and hope you can enjoy it here - If you wish to continue in the vein of this, your first post - May I suggest you stick your Cranium where the sun has no luminance and be careful that the door you entered via doesn't hit you on your posterior as you exit.

Tombie - that is the most eloquent post I've ever seen from you, and very well said...:D

[BobJ]

Not a tall stary sunshine, fact, I have seen this system in action when out with friends.

Besides, you don't have to buy the system, knowone is twisting your arm, just recommending it.

Also, not the best first post by someone, is this how you speak to everyone for the first time, have some manners mate!!!

Baz.

Don't be so sensitive, sorry that post just struck me as BS.

Not saying the device does not work.

Is this a womens club or guys?

manners?

[weeds]

Not a tall stary sunshine, fact, I have seen this system in action when out with friends.

Besides, you don't have to buy the system, knowone is twisting your arm, just recommending it.

Also, not the best first post by someone, is this how you speak to everyone for the first time, have some manners mate!!!

Baz.

And tombie was full of manners............hang on wouldn't expect anything else

[Redback]

Don't be so sensitive, sorry that post just struck me as BS.

Not saying the device does not work.

Is this a womens club or guys?

manners?

Gimmie a kiss and I'll tell ya:spudnikcoinflip:

[weeds]

Don't be so sensitive, sorry that post just struck me as BS.

Not saying the device does not work.

Is this a womens club or guys?

manners?

You hit the nail on the head........they are a sensitive bunch in here

[101RRS]

Bobj you come onto this forum - you make assumptions about what Tote was talking about - he did not mention potholes at all but his comments were about clearances and then you insinuate he was bull****ting.

I know Tote and to give you information on one of the the specific clearance issues he had (he will correct me if I am wrong) but he was on Fraser Island which has lots of creek crossings on its wide open 120km of beach on its eastern side. The creeks cut channels through the sand that have 12" or higher drop offs. He raised his vehicle to offroad height as he was driving along the beach - with all the noise of the wind and surf he did not hear the gongs when it settled back to onroad height and with no visual reference he did not realise the vehicle had settled - when he went to drive through one of the creeks the rear of the car bottomed out on the drop off and ripped his rear bumper out - would most likely have cleared if at off road height.

Likewise, as mentioned there are plenty of other situations in Aust that offroad height is required above 50kph for extended periods so something like Llams or rods are needed.

By your attitude I don't think you would be a good community member on this forum so I suggest you hoof it off.

Garry

[Ean Austral]

Cmon Guys,

Give Bobj a break, its not his fault his LR3 or LR4 hasnt seen anything bigger than a pot hole.. :wasntme:

Once he gets it off the black top he may understand what you are talking about... Then again, his first post did suck.:p

Cheers Ean

[weeds]

Bobj you come onto this forum - you make assumptions about what Tote was talking about - he did not mention potholes at all but his comments were about clearances and then you insinuate he was bull****ting.

I know Tote and to give you information on one of the the specific clearance issues he had (he will correct me if I am wrong) but he was on Fraser Island which has lots of creek crossings on its wide open 120km of beach on its eastern side. The creeks cut channels through the sand that have 12" or higher drop offs. He raised his vehicle to offroad height as he was driving along the beach - with all the noise of the wind and surf he did not hear the gongs when it settled back to onroad height and with no visual reference he did not realise the vehicle had settled - when he went to drive through one of the creeks the rear of the car bottomed out on the drop off and ripped his rear bumper out - would most likely have cleared if at off road height.

Likewise, as mentioned there are plenty of other situations in Aust that offroad height is required above 50kph for extended periods so something like Llams or rods are needed.

By your attitude I don't think you would be a good community member on this forum so I suggest you hoof it off.

Garry

.......on Fraser when you come to one of these drop off most drivers slow right down ie nearly stop especially if it's > 12 inches, look for a spot with least amount of drop off, check to the car is ready to negotiate the drop off and drove across at a slight angle to reduce the chance of the rear end bottoming out......even hopping and and pushing sand away with your feet makes the crossing easier

Anyways non of these posts are helping the vendor or the section

[Homestar]

Don't be so sensitive, sorry that post just struck me as BS.

Not saying the device does not work.

Is this a womens club or guys?

manners?

No, not a woman's club, but generally a well mannered, friendly forum that obviously doesn't take too well to posts like yours. By all means, feel free to voice your opinions, but please do it in a way that isn't going to alienate you from the rest of the community here.

This isn't a Toyota forum you know...

[Graeme]

On a recent 1400 mile run, we needed the additional bump travel of extra lift, however were traveling at 70-90mph for long undulating and corrugated sections (went out to our former nuclear test site)...
Without the +30mm function the vehicle would thump the bump stops, raised +30mm and it was a pleasant and comfortable ride (for 8-10 hours at a time).

I consider this small increase in height and therefore shock bump travel a very under-rated feature that until its used in situations like this, one could question the relevance of it. Much better for the occupants and presumably for the vehicle too.

[DJMcV]

Hi there. Has anyone done this install themselves? The instructions seem quite good, just wondering if anyone has any tips?

This system seems much better than the adjustable height sensor rods.

Cheers

[DJMcV]

sorry just answered my own question. new to the site and had a little trouble navigating, all good now :)

[Graeme]

Did you see the links to Rich's detailed installation instructions with lots of pictures?

[DJMcV]

Yeah, very helpful. Looking forward to seeing the difference and having the control!

[DJMcV]

Installed his arvo. Works a treat :D

[101RRS]

Installed his arvo. Works a treat :D

The trick is not to play with it all the time - set for the terrain you are driving on and leave it - only using full height when you need.

Will save your compressor.

Garry

[Graeme]

Just letting people know that with looms now sourced from a different manufacturer who uses a trouble-free version of the grey connectors that the cable tie is no longer required. All kits at resellers have the new loom, with new looms having been supplied for existing stock.

[Bytemrk]

Graeme, I assume that makes mine a new loom?

Hoping to get it installed over the weekend :)

Thanks again...

[Graeme]

Yes, the new looms have been in kits for some weeks now. As an indicator, the new looms have the black earth wire connected to a grey connector (the main earth) whereas old looms have it connected to a black connector, a carry-over from the initial development loom design. Another identifier is the red locking plate inside the bottom of the new male grey connector whereas the originals were all grey and did not use a separate locking plate.

[Greatsouthernland]

Hi Graeme, I checked the website and the LLAMS is only available for the 2013 D4.

How long til the MY14 D4 kit is for sale? Apologies if it is the same, just can't select 2014 from the list...

Cheers!

[Graeme]

The kit indeed still fits the latest, 2014 D4. However it doesn't fit the 2014 RRS nor the 2013+ RRV, with a new kit for those expected in 6-8 months.

I assume that must be the Davis Performance web-site.

Edit: Yes, DPL web-site and no 2010-2013 RRS nor 2007-2012 RRV either!

[Greatsouthernland]

The kit indeed still fits the latest, 2014 D4. However it doesn't fit the 2014 RRS nor the 2013+ RRV, with a new kit for those expected in 6-8 months.

I assume that must be the Davis Performance web-site.

Edit: Yes, DPL web-site and no 2010-2013 RRS nor 2007-2012 RRV either!

Correct, followed the link from one of your posts I think, drop down doesn't have 2014 for D4.

I'll pm for clarification of specifying year in order.

Thanks for the prompt reply.

[Bytemrk]

Another very satisfied Llams customer here, just wanting to thank Graeme publicly and highlight how simply this system is to install and use. ( Even I can do it! :eek:)

Great product - Great instructions with brilliant support from a very active knowledgeable forum member.

Thanks again Graeme.... great work. :D

[Greatsouthernland]

And another LLAMS is in, phew. 4 hours including short test drive...:( probably not the quickest and I lost 2 metal clips :mad:

Wow, very high :D now I definitely need to order the steps.

Thanks Graeme :cool:

Edit: Long test drive today, all good. Very easy install upon reflection...maybe I just dragged it out being a bit too protective.
Edit 2: Must remember to turn rotary knob off, as the LED still gets power even when the car is locked, probably from the tilt sensor for tow away detection when alarmed...might try deadlock...nope, still stays on.

[Graeme]

Not being accustomed to removing the covers and connectors requires a slow and steady approach so installation time easily blows out. I fitted one to a 2010 D4 very recently including fitting the switch to the centre console that still took over an hour even though I can almost do it blind-folded.

[LRD414]

I am arranging for Davis Performance to supply & install Llams in my MY14 D4. I'm also getting them to install Redarc Tow Pro (headlight binnacle mount).

I haven't found too much info on where people are mounting the current version of the Llams switches in D4's. Most info is for D3's.

So far it seems that a good location for dial is small panel right side of steering wheel, adjacent headlight switch but would appreciate thoughts/options/etc. Not sure for LED.

Davis are quite happy to take customer's advice (within reason) regarding mounting.

Cheers,
Scott

[Graeme]

The left side of the steering column cover is a reasonable spot if its not in use with either an electric column adjuster or perhaps a driving light switch. The LED can't be seen from the driving position but you get to feel if the height is other than normal height so not much of a loss. However I suggest that the drilled washer is not fitted so that the LED protrudes a little as the plastic is fairly thick.

A good spot for the button switch is in the webbing below the steering wheel because its out of harm's way but still can be felt and pressed.

You might like to remind DPL that no calibration is required for later D3s and D4s.

[LRD414]

Graeme, could I send you a PM just to get a couple of small things clarified? Just so I am fully informed when discussing with DPL.

[Graeme]

Most certainly!

[Ben_Vapid]

Hi guys,

I'm wondering if LLAMS can be used to only raise the left or right side of the car to help level it for a rooftop tent? It doesn't seem so but I thought i'd ask.

And can anyone recommend an installer in Melbourne, preferably north?

Cheers!

[Tombie]

Open tent, start vehicle, close doors and wait.
The vehicle will self level to compensate for the lean caused by the tent.

[Ben_Vapid]

Yeah i'm more thinking a hefty slope. I'm thinking of getting a rooftop tent and a mates D2 on the weekend had to drive up on chocks to level properly. I know my D4 will self-level, but only to a point!

[Graeme]

I thought I should be able to get one side to drop and the other to raise but the suspension wouldn't play the game. The test was in response to a request for the option to use whilst on a lean against rocks etc. I wasn't very comfortable with the idea though because if enabled whilst driving it would be illegal and could be hazardous so didn't persist with trying.

[Graeme]

I've had a request asking if fade-out can be permanently enabled.

Currently the button can be pressed any number of times with the rotary switch set to medium to enable fade-out which is then cancelled by momentarily selecting low.

Fade-out can be made to toggle on and off with each successive press of the button switch whilst the rotary switch is set at medium. The button could be held for any length of time then when released the program will wait 10ms to exclude switch contact bounce to avoid immediately toggling the setting. The on/off setting would persist even if disconnected from power. The module LED colour would be slightly improved over the current version to show orange when the rotary switch is on medium if fade-out is enabled but off if not, regardless of whether recovery/extra high is enabled. The module LED will show red only when the rotary switch is on high if recovery/extra high is enabled. Hence the module LED will confirm any current special modes. Existing modules could be updated FOC by sending the module back for reprogramming.

My concern is that the only way to check whether fade-out is enabled or not would be to set the rotary switch to medium and see if the module LED is on or off, which is not very user-friendly. However I suspect that once enabled one would not bother to disable it because its not expected to materially affect vehicle height yet may reduce the incidence of faults if stopped with 1 or diagonal corner(s) fully extended. Perhaps fade-out should initially be enabled and only disabled if specifically not desired.

Any comments?

[discotwinturbo]

Graeme....was all gooble degook to me.

I need to read what fade out is all about. :-) Brett...

[Graeme]

Sorry, I should have explained at the start.

Fade-out reduces the sensor adjustment value when operating near the upper height limit which reduces the incidence of the suspension ecu trying to get more height from a corner when its fully extended. It works by decreasing the adjustment once the real sensor signals reach a predetermined point so that the sensor signals eventually match the actual height as the suspension gets close to being fully-raised. Fade-out is unlikely to cause any reduction in achievable actual height.

If this change is implemented then probably best to have fade-out enabled by default in which case the module LED would show yellow if fade-out is disabled rather than enabled, ie when not the normal operating mode. Thus the default setting would provide the most robust logic although the incidence of faults is quite low without fade-out enabled.

Edit: Fade-out is currently too restrictive to have as a default so the proposed changes are on hold while I see if the limitations can be reduced to allow more height yet still serve the option's purpose.

[Mungus]

Another LAMMS installed. Great bit of kit! I had a small issue with the rotary switch, where I had six positions instead of the noted four. Thanks to Graeme for his super quick response to my PM even though he was offline at the time and on new years eve. Turns out when I removed the knob, the tabbed washer came off (which it shouldn't) and I fitted it back in the wrong location. Graeme's response below explains.

'The switch is not correctly configured so please don't connect it to the module with power to the module as it may cause a short circuit on the module's 5V supply. You are correct regarding the expected positions.

There is a movable limit tab washer under the nut and washer that is supposed to be super-glued with its tab in the 3rd hole but I suspect it has come free and has ended up in the 6th hole. Can you remove the tab totally then rotate the switch shaft fully anti-clockwise then put a small dab of superglue on the short section where there are no holes then fit the tab in the 3rd hole? Be careful that glue doesn't go down any of the holes. If the fix doesn't work out then I'll send you a new switch.'

I used a smear of silicone to hold in place instead of superglue.
Pics below of the tabbed washer and I also found a perfect safe spot for the Mode pushbutton. The hole is already there, just needs enlarging to the correct size.

Cheers, Mungus

[Graeme]

It has come to light that the default calibration values for 2005-2009 Discovery 3 (LR3 in the USA) are not compatible with 2005-2009 RRS. Suspension faults may occur and Llams may not cause height changes. Therefore until a version of the module is available that caters for more than 3 default vehicle configurations, MY05-MY09 RRS must be calibrated using actual values learnt from using normal height then off-road height in the original calibration method.

A new module is under development that uses DIP switches to cater for up to 8 default calibration configurations to support MY13+ RRV, MY14+ RRS and presumably the D5 so one will be added for the 05-09 RRS.

[NavyDiver]

Thanks Graeme, my LLAMS which has saved my bacon on several occasions in very deep water and on very rough mountain tracks since I installed it on my D3 over 4 years ago is again ready to help me.

After sales support is very much appreciated and your help and advice is exemplary.

You refused my offer to pay for the part (wiring loom) but I hope you don't object to strongly to the bottle of wine being delivered to you soon.

[Graeme]

Thanks NavyDiver for your very kind gesture.

[Ray Doody]

DPL shiped me a Llams unit yesterday and I do not have the red mode push button and I mising something? also the instructions are from 2011, do I have an old unit? I will try and ring them tomorrow but I'm not sure if they are open on a Sat.

[Graeme]

Its possible that DPL may have found a very early kit. I'll send you a PM.

Edit: Yes, a very early one that hasn't even been updated with the "recovery" option - not appropriate to be supplying this long since having been superseded.

[Ray Doody]

Can anyone suggest a place to mount the rotary switch in a MY13 RRS? The steering column spot is already occupied so looking for other suggestions. I've not seen the insides of any late model RRSs.
TIA.

Did we find a good spot? I have a MY12 RRS and I'm also looking..

[Reddahaydn]

Love the LLAMS!!!

[Graeme]

Did we find a good spot? I have a MY12 RRS and I'm also looking..
Is there anywhere suitable inside the centre cubby box?

[Melbourne Park]

Graeme, some questions:

I have a 2014 D4 - are there warranty issues? Can the setup be made to easily hide or remove LAMs from the service / warranty guys? I'm not sure how ethical that is anyway ...

Is there someone in melbourne or Victoria who handles LAMs?

Where can you put the control mechanism?

What are the issues vis a vis pulling a 2.4 tonne GVM off road van? (I've read earlier that LAMS is not good for normal towing. )

I would love LAMS for off road work without the van, but also, attaching my van can be a pain. Because I have the standard LR tow tonque. Which although the van tows close to level, sometimes its not easy to get the swing down front trailer wheel onto the ground, because the vehicle although raised, is a bit low. LAMS would allow emergency full height and I could get the trailer's front swing wheel down onto the ground easily. Which would make attaching my trailer a total piece of cake. I would help cleaning the underside of my Disco too - in emergency full height mode.

How does LAMS react to using the key to alter the height of the Disco (which works if the Disco has its doors shut, and has its hazard button switched on)?

I also understand that if the Disco knows a van is attached (I've now had a resistor device put into one of the van's indicator circuits), the LR will not attempt to level itself (as doing so can push the rear of the vehicle upwards, which will push the trailer rear down, which can damage the rear of the towed van).

I'd also like to engage it over speed humps in town - the ride is softer when not slowing down over humps if your in extended mode.

Please excuse all the questions...

[Graeme]

The kit is a non-LR add-on so LR would be well within their rights to object to it being fitted. However it can be removed if necessary to demonstrate whether it is or is not having any impact. Indeed if having any suspension faults investigated then at least the module should be removed to isolate the fault to either the vehicle or the kit.

Towing does not inhibit normal levelling, only automatic change to other heights such as off-road height.

Having Llams fitted has no impact on towing. However if one decides to tow at, for example, +30mm then tyre wear may be increased due to the geometry not as it should be but that is regardless of whether towing or not. I suggest that the tow hitch be set-up to be acceptable at normal height so that towing with the vehicle at a raised height would only be for special conditions, eg higher crown gravel roads.

I understand there are a few places around Melbourne that have experience with fitting the kit, which BTW is quite straight-forward to fit anyway.

I have my switch fitted in place of the driver's accessory outlet. The left or right side of the steering column is a popular spot.

[TerryO]

I have had LLAMS kits fitted to both my D3 and D4 for years and they have never given me any problems.

In my opinion it is the best value for money aftermarket product sold for D3/D4's and RRS. Truly makes a very good off road vehicle into a great off road vehicle by the turn of a knob. Plus for long distance highway cruising being able to set it to -20 mm I have noticed improves fuel economy slightly under normal driving conditions.

Being able to set it lower also makes your Disco handle even better when hooning in the twistes ... ;)

[Melbourne Park]

I can imagine that driving low and hard would wear out the tyres pretty quickly eh!!! I think one of the issues with the Disco is that it feels lighter than it really is, and that would wear tyres I reckon. ie when parking I make an effort to not turn the wheel until the car is moving; there must be a lot of pressure on the power steering hoses etc when turning the steering when stationary, because the vehicle is heavy.

I could rise the vehicle for towing though, because the better tow tongue height is likely 30mm higher than it is now. But as said, it would wear the tyres more, although I am not sure by how much if it was only done on dirt roads, where when towing I think I'd lower the tyre pressures anyway.

Is it difficult to remove the centre panel in order to get the control dial into the accessory outlet? Seems a non invasive place ...

[Graeme]

Here's a link to a post that describes the process for the 6-speed gearbox which I suspect is very similar to the 8-speed.
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/d3-d4-rrs/104077-aerial-install-d3-d4-tailgate-3.html#post1288941

[Graeme]

Are there any recommendations for installers in SE Qld?

[Reddahaydn]

it honestly it very easy and it comes with very good instructions.
it took me under a hour.
any auto elec or mechanic could do it.
Cheers

[Melbourne Park]

Thanks Graeme.

Just a few comments.


..
Towing does not inhibit normal levelling, only automatic change to other heights such as off-road height.
...
Yes, but I don't quite understand that.

My understanding is that when the LR D4 knows its towing, its height settings will not go into extreme mode. I think ...

I read about an owner of a Vista RV off road pop top single axle trailer/van, they cost around $60k new all up, who when going through a creek up North, had this Disco go into extreme mode as the back dipped into a deep spot in the creek. The van went to emergence height. Then the van came out of the "hole" in the river. So the height of the rear of the Disco was very high, and that pushed the back of the Vista straight downwards. Unfortunately the back of the van hit severely and he badly damaged rear of his van ... in fact insurance bought him a new van.

Evidently if the Disco had known there was a van there, it would not have gone into extreme mode ... that's my understanding, anyway, from those discussing towing recognition elsewhere at this site.



..
... I suggest that the tow hitch be set-up to be acceptable at normal height so that towing with the vehicle at a raised height would only be for special conditions, eg higher crown gravel roads.
...
That's logical because most towing is done on bitumen. Being level is extremely important with a twin axle trailer of course. But not so critical with a single axle.

I read an advertisement for someone who said he was selling his caravan because he had problems bending down ... attaching the chain coupling was a big issue, and raising the front of the van in order to attach it to the tow bar was a major drama for him.

You're devise allows one to lower and raise the car, from access height to extreme height - a huge variance, which IMO should be a major marketing benefit for Land Rover towers. Instead of cranking the front of the van up and down you can just adjust the height of the vehicle.

With my D4, if you put the hazard warning lights on, you can lower and raise the land rover, from outside the vehicle. How does your system work with that?


...
I understand there are a few places around Melbourne that have experience with fitting the kit, which BTW is quite straight-forward to fit anyway.
...
Could you advise who? Melbourne has 4 million people and quite a few Discos, plus some great areas to tow to and also to off road. Sometimes a neat job done by someone high on the learning curve is money well spent.

[Graeme]

I have only read that automatic change from normal to off-road height will be inhibited if a trailer/van is detected. Extended height is in response to the assumption that a vehicle has grounded, so not the same as auto selection of off-road height. Dropping into a hole is not a criteria for extended height operation but if the vehicle floated a little then that might be able to be interpreted as having grounded and therefore trigger extended height.

Many people lower their D3/D4/RRS/RRV to get the ball under the van coupling then raise the vehicle to lift the van off its jockey wheel. Off-road height could be used to gain better access to the chains if bending is a problem. Llams can help a little by lowering further and raising further.

Llams has no impact on the raising and lowering of the vehicle using a key fob.

Perhaps people who have had kits fitted can make recommendations.

[Melbourne Park]

Thanks Graeme.

Just a few comments.


..
Towing does not inhibit normal levelling, only automatic change to other heights such as off-road height.
...
Yes, but I don't quite understand that.

My understanding is that when the LR D4 knows its towing, its height settings will not go into extreme mode. I think ...

I read about an owner of a Vista RV off road pop top single axle trailer/van, they cost around $60k new all up, who when going through a creek up North, had this Disco go into extreme mode as the Disco's back dipped into a deep spot in the creek. The rear of the van was entering the creek, and when the back of the Disco went out of "hole" in the creek, the tow bar went to a great height - somewhat due to the extreme mode being very high. Which smashed the rear of the van into the creek bank. Unfortunately the back of the van hit severely and so badly damaged the rear of his van ... that insurance wrote of the Vista RV and bought him a new one.

Evidently if the Disco had known it was towing, and that there was a van behind, the Disco would not have gone into extreme mode ... that's my understanding, anyway, from those discussing towing recognition elsewhere at this site.



..
... I suggest that the tow hitch be set-up to be acceptable at normal height so that towing with the vehicle at a raised height would only be for special conditions, eg higher crown gravel roads.
...
That's logical because most towing is done on bitumen. Being level is extremely important with a twin axle trailer of course. But not so critical with a single axle.

I read an advertisement for someone who said he was selling his caravan because he had problems bending down ... attaching the chain coupling was a big issue, and raising the front of the van in order to attach it to the tow bar was a major drama for him.

Your devise allows one to lower and raise the car, from access height to extreme height - a huge variance, which IMO should be a major marketing benefit for Land Rover towers. Instead of cranking the front of the van up and down to attach to the Land Rover, with Llams you can just adjust the height of the vehicle for an easy coupling or detachment.

With my D4, if you put the hazard warning lights on, you can lower and raise the land rover, from outside the vehicle. How does your system work with that? On the key Fob, there are two buttons you push, and the vehicle goes from access height to the vehicle's height setting. I presume that if your set Llams to extreme height setting, then you could - using the key FOB - go from access height all the way to extreme height ... if you stop pushing the button on the key FOB, the vehicle stops going up (or down).


...
I understand there are a few places around Melbourne that have experience with fitting the kit, which BTW is quite straight-forward to fit anyway.
...
Could you advise who? Melbourne has 4 million people and quite a few Discos, plus some great areas to tow to and also to off road. Sometimes a neat job done by someone high on the learning curve is money well spent.

[Melbourne Park]

I went onto the Davis Performance web site, and emailed them enquirying and purchasing and who could fit the system in Melbourne.

No reply ...

Llams needs someone in Victoria to retail and support the system i.e. install it properly and also advise if necessary.

[Tombie]

Unless you are suffering a back injury etc.. fitting the unit is 30 minutes work...

Failing that - Sniegy might be happy to negotiate a time to install for some beer tickets (or equivalent) :cool:

[Graeme]

Llams needs someone in Victoria to retail and support the system i.e. install it properly and also advise if necessary.I'll ask Davis Performance if they can recommend a fitter as I'm sure they supply at least 1 workshop around Melbourne.

[Melbourne Park]

Unless you are suffering a back injury etc.. fitting the unit is 30 minutes work...

Failing that - Sniegy might be happy to negotiate a time to install for some beer tickets (or equivalent) :cool:

Fitting it inside neatly is the key issue for me.

As far as Sniegy goes, might I email him via this site?

[Graeme]

Send him a PM. However he's often very busy so might not have time.

I forgot to ring DPL today so will try to remember Friday, my next opportunity. I need to talk to them anyway.

[Melbourne Park]

Send him a PM. However he's often very busy so might not have time.

I forgot to ring DPL today so will try to remember Friday, my next opportunity. I need to talk to them anyway.

I would much appreciate that Graeme. I need it fitted by Monday week. I am happy to pay him cash too. Obviously his dealership would not allow it done by them. I am located in Brighton, I could drop it where he wants it.

[Redback]

Maybe ask these guys, they seem to have a good rep on here, Glenn is the owner.

Land Rover & Range Rover Mechanics Melbourne | Land Rover Services Melbourne (http://www.roverland.com.au/landrover-service-melbourne/)

[Melbourne Park]

Maybe ask these guys, they seem to have a good rep on here, Glenn is the owner.

Land Rover & Range Rover Mechanics Melbourne | Land Rover Services Melbourne (http://www.roverland.com.au/landrover-service-melbourne/)

Jeez ... Ferntree Gully ... I take a Mercedes there, I go to Rolf Graunke. He's great but only Mercedes. It's quite a long trip back to Brighton.

I also got a reply from the retailer today, and they said Ritter would do it.

I will give them both a call.

Thanks guys.

Doug

[Melbourne Park]

I contacted Ritter, they would not do it.

Land Rover Services would do it ... but had not heard of Llams. They gave all sorts of reasons not to do it. They cautioned if a suspension issue happened etc., that if not dealer fitted, I could / would blow warranty.

However they would not fit it for two weeks, so looks like I'll have to do it after this coming two weeks away trip.

[Redback]

Jeez ... Ferntree Gully ... I take a Mercedes there, I go to Rolf Graunke. He's great but only Mercedes. It's quite a long trip back to Brighton.

I also got a reply from the retailer today, and they said Ritter would do it.

I will give them both a call.

Thanks guys.

Doug

It takes 20mins tops to fit and a 40min drive.

Where ya going for a trip, if you are coming this way we can fit it for you or anywhere near Wagga, Graeme can fit it;)

Let us know where you're going and someone on here should be able to fit it for you.

Baz.

[Graeme]

Where ya going for a trip, if you are coming this way we can fit it for you or anywhere near Wagga, Graeme can fit it;)I'm available almost any time.

[Melbourne Park]

I've been caught up for a month, when I thought I'd have some spare time.

I had a tyre place swap my wheels to the GOE ones yesterday, and they said just around the corner from them is Rova Range, Land Rover Service Centre (http://www.rovarange.com.au). So I went there ... spoke to the owner. Curiously I think he said his brother had GOE 18s but had problems with the height sticks ... the owner said they had to re-set the computer as the sticks had created crazy issues. I am unsure which height sticks his brother was using. He said he was not familiar with Llams, but understood how it might work vis a vis the signal, and that he'd fit it ... so all I need is to get Llams ASAP.

I will leave on Tuesday, so I'd need to get Rova Range to fit it Monday ...

I am driving to Alice Springs, via either Mildura or Adelaide, from Melbourne. If I went by Wagga Graeme, It would cost me 5 hours ... and 500km. I'd have to leave I think on Monday ... hmmm .... maybe that is the way???

I have not purchased Llams yet ... I may have left it all too late. Can't believe such stuff isn't easily available in Melbourne. Tomorrow I am having a roof panel put on the Disco.

I went to the tyre place primarily for a TyreDog kit, but Australian stock is zero, for the next 3 weeks. So I guess I'll have to check my tyres with the hand gauge a fair bit.

I am not doing any serious dirt road work though ... only dirt will likely be in the Ranges from Alice to Uluru, and I am not going the dirt tougher road, mainly because I haven't fitted a Stone Stomper yet. With Stone Stomper, its also a back yard type product without a factory to fit it. Plus my time is limited so I am going to keep the roads easy. Otherwise I'd have gone via Adelaide and Stone Stomper to do it. I am concerned about braking a back window you see. Although the trailer has a very good stone reflector absorber setup, I am still cautious. Slower speeds should work to keep the rear window intact I hope.

My ankle is in a caste at the moment but when i come back I'll get out of the caste ... I'll be able to do things myself then I expect. But it takes me time to do things and even time itself has been very limited for this last month. Also I don't want to rush interior panel removal work, and threading cables through fire walls is not my thing.

[Graeme]

It doesn't sound as though you will benefit much from being able to keep the suspension raised on this trip, with possibly only a better ride if the gravel roads are pot-holed but you wont be travelling very quickly without good rear window protection anyway. Monday is not a good day for me due to other commitments .

[njz]

I can recommend Marty at Rovarange. He does good work and is pleasant to deal with.

[Melbourne Park]

It doesn't sound as though you will benefit much from being able to keep the suspension raised on this trip, with possibly only a better ride if the gravel roads are pot-holed but you wont be travelling very quickly without good rear window protection anyway. Monday is not a good day for me due to other commitments .

Marty will do it I guess ... but I would need to a kit by Monday, and for him to agree to squeeze me in this monday. And ARB told me of another Land Rover specialist, in the Moorabin area ... !!!

My van does have an effective stone diffuser - users claim no rear window issues. But there is some stone blast onto the higher areas of the van itself. These are eliminated by the Stone Stomper.

But the Llams has other advantages, due to greater height being available when attaching and detaching the van. Because the van has a swing jockey wheel, sometimes the height of the tow bar is too low to get it onto the van. The emergency height would be a benefit there.

Anyway I can get the kit by Monday?

[Tombie]

Mr Park :D

You may or may not be aware... Whilst not a finished solution...

LLams module is fitted by unplugging, plugging and using Hook and Loop tape just up inside the kick panel...

The controller - for your trip at least (or until you get somewhere to mount it fully)... Could simply and easily be cable tied / taped / sat between the instrument cluster and top of steering column, or underneath column resting on top of the drop down flap...

Later on you could then fit the switch in your desired location..

I understand you have a boot on your foot at the moment, but as long as you can reach an arm into a void in the footwell inside the vehicle you can fit this unit...

No passing of wires through firewalls, no cutting or anything for this level of install - then later just decide where you want the switch ;)

[Melbourne Park]

I had thought the module connection was in the engine bay ...

The problem now is, that I leave on Tuesday morning ... does anyone have stock in Melbourne? Or somewhere to pick it up on Monday in Melbourne?

If not, I'll get it installed when I get back ... I've been flat out with work things, so I am mostly resigned to not having it for this trip.

[Graeme]

I don't currently provide stock to any outlets in Melbourne. Some weeks ago there was an inquiry but nothing has eventuated to date, perhaps because the kits can arrive by post in about 3 days either from Davis Performance Landys or directly from me.

[Disconels]

Sorry if this has been asked already but too many pages to sift through.

Does anyone know how the LLAMS compares to Lift Rods as far as max height goes? What I mean by this is for example Johnson Rods lift 50mm (2 inches) so If I'm at Off-road height, it's Off-road height + 50mm (2 in), or if I'm in Super Extended Mode then I'm even higher.

How high can LLAMS actually go on it's own? My concern is that it won't lift as high as the Rods can.

[Graeme]

LLAMS's high setting provides off-road height (+50/55mm) whilst in normal height mode which when used in off-road height mode provides approximately 90mm lift. Double the height increment can be selected (extra high, or recovery mode as it was originally called) by pressing the button switch which equates to high in off-road mode, being approximately +90mm if used when in normal height mode. If extra high is attempted to be used when in off-road mode then suspension faults will soon occur because the shocks will be fully extended yet the suspension ecu by its calculations thinks they should extend further.

Extra high/recovery mode is provided to allow off-road height to be obtained when the suspension has lowered to its safe height of about access height when an ABS fault occurs. If the shorter rods can only provide an extra 50mm lift then the vehicle cannot be raised to off-road height in these circumstances. EG If a front ABS sensor wire is damaged whilst clambering over rocks at off-road height or higher then only being able to get back up to normal height might not be high enough to recover the vehicle without sustaining damage.

[Narangga]

Finally had a free Saturday morning so I got mine installed - in less than 2 hours :eek2: Amazing (for me - I usually require double the stated time)!

Didn't quite rationalise the calibration in my own mind initially but sorted it on Sunday afternoon. Only managed to get a few photos of it on the phone this afternoon. Should have set the camera on the tripod but never mind.

LHS is Land Rover height. RHS is LLAMS

Access (bit hard to see that it is lower but definitely is)
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/720.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/Cy83yh)

Off Road
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/02/721.jpg (https://flic.kr/p/CyeUhH)

Many thanks to Graeme, Rich and everyone else who had posted. Easier by a mile having read it before I did it. :D

[Morover]

I just installed my LLAMS and thought I'd share it here.

I didn't want to install the switch in the cig socket and I have a power column so can't go there either. I found that there was enough room on the drivers (RH) side of the column to mount the switch. As it is very visible on the driver's side I found a black aluminium knob that blended in a bit better. If you aren't looking for it you would never see it. Others may have done this before but I couldn't see any pics.

Also installed the push button under the other side of the column. Accessible but hidden enough.

[puttysydney]

Hi guys,

Reaching out for some assistance after 4 hours of trying to get my new llams kit to work.

* Discovery 3 - 2009 SE
* Turn ignition on - no suspension fault
* Start car - suspension fault - normal height selected
* Disconnect llams - reconnect original - no faults
* Switches on module all set to off - still faults
* Switches set to 1. On - still faults

I'm sure I must be doing something wrong but seeking some assistance if someone can help?

[Graeme]

There appears to be a fault with the Llams wiring harness so a replacement will be sent. The harnesses are all tested so the failing harness will be retested to discover what fault now exists.

[Bytemrk]

Graeme, one of the reasons I never hesitate to recommend Llams to any one that will listen... is your great after sales service.

I wish more suppliers stood behind their product like you do....:thumbsup:

(Damn good product too BTW)

[puttysydney]

Unbelievable Graeme. Support call at 10pm at night. Got straight to the bottom of the issue and offered an instant resolution. Can't ask for any better than that. Above and beyond the call of duty!!!!

[tonyci]

Hi Graeme, just went to order, the site says out of stock. Any idea how long before units will be back in stock ?. No real drama not urgent.
Also do you know of anyone who could install in Melbourne ?.
Cheers
Thanks
Tony

[Graeme]

I'm hoping to get some kits to Davis Performance by the end of this week.

A few workshops in Melbourne fit the kit (eg Peninsula Rangie, Rovarange). If not fitting it yourself then perhaps best to get the workshop to order one direct from me as your overall cost may be less.

[Graeme]

Davis Performance should have a few kits tomorrow Friday 26th if Australia Post can repeat last weeks's delivery schedule.

[puttysydney]

Graeme, the new loom arrived today... 5 mins later... BINGO!! Well diagnosed, prompt response and delivery. A1 service. Last questions.
1) Where do most mount the control module? (not the dial).
2) for a disco 3 2009 should switches be all off or sw1 on
3) is there any need - advantage to doing the calibration to actual values?

[Graeme]

I simply poked the D4's module just to the left of the opening where it seemed OK to sit on a small ledge. It didn't rattle or move about but it could be cable-tied somewhere if concerned, although that could make it more difficult to pull out if needed.

The later D3 switch settings have inadvertently been left undocumented as initially I thought they used the D4 calibrations but later shown otherwise so removed these D3s from the D4 settings without further comment. Any switch combination except the special RRS 15mm low settings is acceptable when calibrating using actual values.

The later D3s will require a calibration using actual values because no default calibrations currently exist in the module for MY07-MY09 D3.

PS. I'm pleased that the new loom overcame the problem. I will report on what's wrong with the original loom.

[Graeme]

An option to allow the switch LED to be off when the ignition is off will be introduced when new wiring looms become available. People have queried if the LED should still be on with the ignition off but I like to see the LED even with the ignition off so don't use the option myself, having had a development kit installed in my RRV for some time. As a result of the necessary changes to the module and switch circuit boards and the switch lead, some minor enhancements to the switch LED's operation will be implemented at the same time. Replacements of the current versions of the switch will continue to be available as the new switch circuit boards can be configured either way. Indeed the new module and switch pcbs will be in use prior to the provision of the feature with the new looms.

Kits with the new looms will not be supplied until all kits with current looms have been sold including any DPL stock. If the new feature is required then don't purchase a kit until the new looms are in use, however the current loom stock of around 30 sets after existing orders may suffice for several months yet. The new looms, by the same manufacturer and identical to the current looms except for an additional wire, have only recently been ordered and around 3 months ahead of expectations but hopefully will be available by the time the existing looms are gone.

L494/L405 looms were produced with the extra wire so the option is already available for those vehicles.

[l00kin4]

1) Where do most mount the control module? (not the dial). ?


I found that the module sits nicely where Graeme said and also on the other side of the opening. I just put a tab of velcro to keep it in place.
David
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/215.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2016/08/216.jpg

[Graeme]

Graeme, the new loom arrived today... 5 mins later... BINGO!!
Here's a picture of the cause. The loom tested OK on arrival but wriggling the wires behind this connector caused a loss of contact on the wire whose socket is not in place due to an assembly error at the factory and only the 2nd that has occurred with this supplier.
113237

[puttysydney]

Just my luck :( The issue had the potential to escalate quickly. Due to your instantaneous response and support I didn't have a lot to be angry about. Thanks again for the follow up

[letherm]

Kits with the new looms will not be supplied until all kits with current looms have been sold including any DPL stock. If the new feature is required then don't purchase a kit until the new looms are in use, however the current loom stock of around 30 sets after existing orders may suffice for several months yet. The new looms, by the same manufacturer and identical to the current looms except for an additional wire, have only recently been ordered and around 3 months ahead of expectations but hopefully will be available by the time the existing looms are gone.


Hi Graeme.

Are the new kits available yet?

My D4 has just come out of warranty and I'm looking to buy one.

Martin

[Graeme]

Sorry Martin, I still have quite a few of the current looms so it could be a couple of months before starting on the ones with the extra wire, especially considering this is normally a quiet time of year.

[letherm]

Sorry Martin, I still have quite a few of the current looms so it could be a couple of months before starting on the ones with the extra wire, especially considering this is normally a quiet time of year.

Thanks Graeme.

I'll diarize for 3 months hence and check then. It's mainly to help my wife in and out of the car by lowering the extra amount.

Martin

[Mungus]

Hi Graham,
After having the battery disconnected for a few days to install DBS switch and moving a lot of wiring looms including LLAMS in the process of trying to find the damn lower panel clip that sprung into that area, with no luck yet, I have the following symptoms;

Minus 20 - no response
+30 - lowers by about 20
+50 - raises to +50

I am going to inspect all plugs looms etc again ( I think I heard that clip fall yesterday), but if I want to recalibrate, do I just follow the initial calibration sequence I used?

[Graeme]

That's quite a strange set of height changes so possibly loss of contact somewhere although that should be accompanied by a suspension fault. Calibration should not have been upset and therefore re-calibration unnecessary but can be done anyway. Perhaps just recheck that connectors haven't been dislodged then either remove the 20A suspension fuse or disconnect the battery for a moment to ensure that the Llams module restarts.

[Mungus]

The left plug had slight movement, pulled the suspension fuse and now have a suspension fault I can't clear. Batteries are now disconnected to remove for inspection but having trouble getting plugs out of module. Just want to check,reinstall with loop back plug and take it from there.
Almost certain it's something I've done, just need to find out what.

On a positive note, I found that clip!

Edit: No suspension fault. It was just the TTM warning message.

[Tombie]

Relax. Suspension fault light will clear after a couple of starts once you have the plugs seated correctly.

[Graeme]

If plugs, particularly the grey one, are hard to remove then just push them a little to be sure they're seated fully. If you want to remove a stubborn connector then remove the single 10mm bolt from above the suspension ecu, push the suspension ecu upwards out of its 2 lower clips then bring it down to where you can grab the connectors and ecu properly.

If your kit is at least a couple of years old then it may be using an early version loom, in which case the 2 joined grey connectors can pull apart on 1 side unless kept together using a tight cable-tie through the wires. The grey socket on early looms doesn't have a red insert (locking tab) inside the grey outer shell whereas the grey socket on later looms does. No connection problems occur with the later looms which were introduced mid 2014.

[Mungus]

Got the left one out and looks like taking out the module to get the other one. Thanks for that tip Graham!
Latest loom, so should be no problem.
When I installed these looms I put gaffa tape across the flat loom near each connector in an effort to add wiring support. Bad move. The glue has crept along the looms (upwards via capillary action) and into the connectors. Also adding to the difficulty of removal.
I'm going to remove and clean the lot.

[Graeme]

The problem with the earlier looms is that some of the pins in the grey socket that mates with the LR connector are shorter than they need to be and loose contact if the connectors pull on the retaining clip. The wires don't need any support themselves so there should be no need for special attention.

[Mungus]

No doubt Graham. Just one of those spur of the moment ideas, that turn out not so bright.

[carlschmid2002]

Do you have a recommended supplier and or installer in Melbourne. I am happy to purchase online but would like to get it fitted. Cheers.

[Tombie]

Do you have a recommended supplier and or installer in Melbourne. I am happy to purchase online but would like to get it fitted. Cheers.



Sniegy may do it for you for a few coins..

[Graeme]

I can recommend Marty at Rovarange. He does good work and is pleasant to deal with.
Here's one workshop that obviously will fit the kits. Workshops can order a kit from me at a trade price if it's worth their while. Best to ask before buying a kit yourself and taking it to them as they might be inclined to offset some of the fitting cost.

PM me your email address and I'll send a copy of the installation instructions as you might feel confident to fit the kit yourself once you know what's involved.

[carlschmid2002]

What about the Sydney/Canberra area as I start work in Canberra on the 30th Jan. I could get the car to Sydney on a weekend.

[Graeme]

It's about a 3 hour drive from Canberra to my place - just over an hour west of Gundagai.

[carlschmid2002]

Can I book a time in Feb one weekend to come and get one fitted.

[Graeme]

PM sent - taking the discussion offline.

[SandmanDisco4]

I am a new d4 owner. Guessing I have to suffer the bongs until the warranty ends or I void the warranty on suspension with the llams? If not keen to know if there is someone in sa who can fit it?

[Meken]

I am a new d4 owner. Guessing I have to suffer the bongs until the warranty ends or I void the warranty on suspension with the llams? If not keen to know if there is someone in sa who can fit it?



Where are you sandman ? Paul muscat in QLD does a great install. Lots of us with it in cars still under warranty. Graeme can prolly chime in

[Tombie]

I am a new d4 owner. Guessing I have to suffer the bongs until the warranty ends or I void the warranty on suspension with the llams? If not keen to know if there is someone in sa who can fit it?



The unit Can't void warranty! There's a few of us who can fit it for you..

Basil135
BigJon
Me

[Tombie]

Where are you sandman ? Paul muscat in QLD does a great install. Lots of us with it in cars still under warranty. Graeme can prolly chime in



See the SA bit [emoji41]

[Graeme]

LR could rightly ask that it be removed before investigating any suspension related faults which should be done anyway to know that Llams isn't the cause. If regularly getting warnings as getting close to the off-road speed limit then dropping to normal height because the limit has been exceeded and having to raise again to off-road height wont be doing the compressor any favours compared with being able to stay at off-road height without considering the times when only a 30mm lift would suffice.

[SandmanDisco4]

Pls recommend installer in south aus. Guessing I buy from you Graeme then arrange with installer. It sounds like a great idea and I am keen to proceed...

[Graeme]

PM sent.

[Graeme]

I'm happy to supply individual kits directly at a discount for a group order of 5 or more kits. The discounted price would be more than the reseller or workshop buy price but a significant saving on RRP, plus postage. Payment would be by direct deposit to avoid me incurring Paypal charges and the order organised by someone other than me. Invoices would be emailed once the whole order is ready. The order would take its place in an order queue if one existed at the time.

Please start a thread in the Group Buy sub-forum rather than here.

[letherm]

Thanks Graeme.

I'll diarize for 3 months hence and check then. It's mainly to help my wife in and out of the car by lowering the extra amount.

Martin

Hi Graeme.

Time certainly flies. Are the new looms available yet?

Regards,
Martin

[Graeme]

Just started shipping in the last day or 2.

Edit: DPL don't have any yet but must be getting close to ordering more.

[letherm]

Just started shipping in the last day or 2.

Edit: DPL don't have any yet but must be getting close to ordering more.

Thanks Graeme.

Martin

[letherm]

Ignore please.

Sorry

Martin