105 degrees C too hot for comfort?

[ozscott]

Gday All,

Took my 02 D2 V8 to Duck Creek Rd the other day...nice cool 19c conditions outside. Climbed up to O'Reily's - as usual nice climb in high range. I noticed half way up travelling at walking pace most of the time at just above idle - 1000rpm to 1800rpm in first high (manual) that the temp got to 105 degrees...and she smelt a bit hot when I stopped. I have noticed lately that on hills and stopped she can creep up to 100 and when running back to 86-90. When I first got the scangauge II a few years ago even towing my 2 tonn boat in stop start traffic in the middle of a 40 degree summer day in Brissy it didnt go over 100.

She has always had proper rad service and at the last service the infra red gun on the rad and no hot spots. Has always had the red coolant and changed frequently. She has however 167k on the clock since I bought her new and has the same clutch fan and thermostat and waterpump. Should I just throw a thermostat at it and see what happens or is it likely to need at least a flush including block, and possibly a new radiator and water pump?

Cheers

PS. I know coolant does not boil at 105 and that modern Falcons run much hotter again, but I dont recall mine ever running up that high, and others with Scanguage's on their V8's might be able to help with what their's reads.

[Blknight.aus]

sounds like its due for the proper cooling system service that it should have had at the 100K Km mark or 5 years whichever came first.

[clubagreenie]

Mine in traffic in recent temps runs up to 98 when stationary but drops back a couple when moving. If I head straight for the motorway without major stopping and don't raise the bay temps then it sits down around 92-3. Never had it below that running. Thats since I replaced the engine post HG issue. It's now a 4.6 so nt sure if they run any different. Running red coolant and redline waterwetter. Without the redline was running at 96-98 always.

[justinc]

I've seen 105 and more quite often on D2 V8s, they run very high operating temps for 'efficiency', a high pressure cooling system to help 'boiling', and if there is any pressure leaks etc it'll soon boil over. These engines are so unreliable in the head and liner department due to the small margin between normal operating range and overheating.
A faulty airflow meter causing leanness will even make them overheat.


The viscous fan hub, hoses, thermostat and rad etc need to be in tip top condition.


JC

[ozscott]

sounds like its due for the proper cooling system service that it should have had at the 100K Km mark or 5 years whichever came first.

Mate - it had that from Land Rover at 100,000k....Are you saying it should have another full flush now early?

Cheers

PS. I have never spared the servicing costs and duration with this girl, so thats why I am concerned about it being something more critical than a rad 'service' issue - ie stuffed radiator (which I have heard of at less k's) or water pump or clutch fan hub...

[ozscott]

I've seen 105 and more quite often on D2 V8s, they run very high operating temps for 'efficiency', a high pressure cooling system to help 'boiling', and if there is any pressure leaks etc it'll soon boil over. These engines are so unreliable in the head and liner department due to the small margin between normal operating range and overheating.
A faulty airflow meter causing leanness will even make them overheat.


The viscous fan hub, hoses, thermostat and rad etc need to be in tip top condition.


JC

Thanks Justin...yep efficiency gota love it...emissions and economy I suppose. I am not happy with it being that high though as it seems to have only come up that high recently. I suppose a full rodding, flush, block flush, thermostat and perhaps a new clutch fan hub might be the go.

Cheers

[PAT303]

Mate - it had that from Land Rover at 100,000k....Are you saying it should have another full flush now early?

Cheers

PS. I have never spared the servicing costs and duration with this girl, so thats why I am concerned about it being something more critical than a rad 'service' issue - ie stuffed radiator (which I have heard of at less k's) or water pump or clutch fan hub...

You should flush the rad every 12 months and pull and rod it every 100,000k's.For me thats the minimal service requirements regardless of vehicle make or engine type. Pat

[400HPONGAS]

Im amazed that the solution for alot of these overheating issues doesnt clearly address one of the most common failure modes . That of blocking a new or used radiator by foreign material in either the original engine build or subsequent re-builds .
The simple fitting of a "Water Filter" of the the "TEFBA" type for $60 will ensure that those problems dont exist . No engine should be without one !!!
Wont do anything for his 105C operating temp as that probably normal for that application , but will prevent subsequent damage or at least warn you in time of thehttps://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/1281.jpg inevitable !!

[Blknight.aus]

Mate - it had that from Land Rover at 100,000k....Are you saying it should have another full flush now early?

Cheers

PS. I have never spared the servicing costs and duration with this girl, so thats why I am concerned about it being something more critical than a rad 'service' issue - ie stuffed radiator (which I have heard of at less k's) or water pump or clutch fan hub...

thats where I would start as flushing it properly pretty much mandates removing all the hoses and from there its not that much more work to have the radiator pulled so you can either endoscope it OR send it to a proper radiator place. Just because a landrover sales yard or even maintenance agent charged you to do it doesnt mean they did it properly or at all. Just ask me about the number of "free" services I got done on big red because I kept catching them out trying to take short cuts.

[ozscott]

Thanks Gents. It was Blue Ribbon that did the full flush, and I trust them to do it properly, and they told me what was involved. I will flush it again. Spoke to one of my brothers today who has serviced and modded 4wd's of all makes for many years in his own shop - including LR. He reckons whilst increase indicates that it could do with a flush he would not be upset at 105 and at 115 he would be starting to be concerned. I will do the full flush though.

As for the TEFBA - I had one of those on every one of my vehicles since I was 17 but only stopped when I went LR. They are a fantastic idea and they DO trap crap...BUT if you get slack on it as a maintenance item it will clog up the screen and overheat. So as long as you dont mind checking it, its a FANTASTIC bit of kit.

Cheers

[Blknight.aus]

I had assumed that you had done the run previously and had an increase that was suddenly out of normal range.

105 is about as hot as I would want to see a v8 running under normal conditions and Id take 115 for a section of hard working but I wouldnt want to stay that hot for an extended period.

[ozscott]

I had assumed that you had done the run previously and had an increase that was suddenly out of normal range.

105 is about as hot as I would want to see a v8 running under normal conditions and Id take 115 for a section of hard working but I wouldnt want to stay that hot for an extended period.

Thanks mate. I had done the run before but not with the Scangauge attached...I had towed though with it and cant recall it getting that high with the Scangauge on...I will keep an eye on it after a flush.

Cheers

[clubagreenie]

I could never live with over 100in any case. May be being too conservative and old school but it's just not right.Especially on something that is so prone to being effected by it.

[AustralianMade]

Boiled my girl between Queenscliff and Geelong VIC today about 7;30pm. Had missus and my two dogs on board with heaps of tools also etc. so not so keen to leave her stranded full of Dewalt toys... Got a Taxi back to Melbourne and now a change of plans for work tomorrow. Thermostat would be nice, but i'm thinking water pump. Hope the V8's Ok??

[AustralianMade]

Disco safe and sound but need to start fixing her first thing Monday morning. Anyone around the Geelong area want to help a fellow enthusiest, make a new friend and fill their fridge up with the devils soup??

[ozscott]

I could never live with over 100in any case. May be being too conservative and old school but it's just not right.Especially on something that is so prone to being effected by it.

Mate do you have a d2 that never sees 100? All petrol injected engines run hot. There would be countless d2's and similar that run up to 105 or higher with the driver being blissfully unaware because the temp gauge does not move at all of the middle - normal -- position and does not blow out coolant or make the motor sluggish. It's only with an obdii or similar that you can tell.

Cheers

[robbotd5]

A bit off topic but what is the safe limit for a TD5? I have a TM2 watchdog and the TD5 runs around 75 dergees C. It got up to 82 ish when I was towing my mates Coast runner (near on a ton). Since I will be towing a caravan next year, at what point should you stop to cool down? I have the alarm set for 95 deg C.
Regards
Robbo.

[clubagreenie]

Mate do you have a d2 that never sees 100? All petrol injected engines run hot. There would be countless d2's and similar that run up to 105 or higher with the driver being blissfully unaware because the temp gauge does not move at all of the middle - normal -- position and does not blow out coolant or make the motor sluggish. It's only with an obdii or similar that you can tell.

Cheers

Since I've had the scan gauge post replacing the engine i've never seen over 98. And thats a warm day sitting idling in trafic. If it reached 101 I'd pullover to be honest. My std gauge gets to half at 55 and stays there until at least 98.

[PAT303]

Personally I wouldn't want to see my engines run over 95.There's only a minute's running between 105 and 125 at which point the engines knackered. Pat

[astormsau]

Hi just for some feedback, my D2 V8 runs about 94-95 most of the time on LPG or petrol. Even towing a 2.5t loaded horse float or low range 4x4 on a 35 degree day it never goes above 97-98... On Sunday I was driving about in Melbourne and it was at 95 all day.

I had an engine rebuild 18 months ago due to slipped liner which saw the disco turn into a kettle (steam out the exhaust). As a precaution, when rebuilt I replaced thermostat, water pump and radiator and it always runs in the 94-95 unless getting a work out....

Oh and those temps are measured using a Scanguage 2.

Drew

[justinc]

I have measured quite a few thor engines both D2 and RR that are 100+ at idle, measured at the inlet manifold coolant passageway with an infra red thermometer. It is quite possible that the temp at the temp sender, IE what is displayed on scanguage, is less due to its position in the system.

JC

[ozscott]

Thanks Gents...its getting worse because today it was hitting 105 at idle on a very nice day with only a tiny bit of stop start after a very mild run...and because it was then ripping down to 85 and back to 95 and then 105 and back again I reckon its a sticking thermostat. I am going to sort it this week - radiator flush, genuine thermostat, new hoses and checking the clutch fan which should be ok cause I can hear it but we will see.

Cheers

[ozscott]

Thanks again fellas. Ok radiator and block flush with no blockages and some white granulated bits coming out (this is an OAT block from new) and new thermostat and hoses (the old ones 167,000 odd are beautiful...and are sitting as spares in the rear, but used all genuine so unlikely to ever be needed)...and now she is 88-90 driving along, 90-93 stop start traffic and then if I cane it hard and then let it sit (ie trying to force it up) she gets to 95 and then quickly drops back to 92 or so...nice.

Cheers

PS. Sticky thermostat was the problem I reckon but having another flush certainly cant hurt when some stuff came out - not a lot but enough.

[ozscott]

Its good to hear the new clutch fan kicking in when it should now...dont notice its gone when it goes to lunch slowly.

The temps are still good in this hot weather, but after stop start traffic and then going into an underground car park it can rise to 102. I am going to tow the boat with it soon (2tonns) in stop start and see how it goes. My bet is that it will go to 102-103 say and not go higher in stop start heavy hot towing.

Having said that when I first got the scanguage II about 4 years ago I towed the same load on a 39 degree Brisbane Summer day up and down Paddington steep hills bypassing bad traffic and was amazed that I couldnt get it above 99...so I think the radiator might be not 100% - which at 169,000 even with a recent flush (no rodding) and always new OAT at 10k intervals wouldnt surprise me. Im going to Fraser soon and dont want dramas, but I suppose as long as she is content in the deep sand at maxing at say 102-103 I shouldnt be worried about a new Rad just yet. When I did deep sand towing 1.5 tonn last year at Straddie the temp did not exceed 105 with old thermostat and buggered clutch fan..

What do you reckon?

Cheers

[ozscott]

Bump...keen to hear what people reckon on this and what their highest temps are with good systems in their V8's

Cheers

[djam1]

David Hardcastle maintains that for reliability a Rover V8 shouldn't exceed 80 Degrees C even under racing conditions
Doubt if hes been to Australia though, I live in the Pilbara and based on his reasoning I have tried to keep my temp as low as possible.
I don't have a water temp gauge apart from the standard one but have a temperature monitor on the head that seems to stay between 74 and 88 degrees in even in the most horrible conditions.
Sometimes the heat soak will take it over but not that often

[ozscott]

Ok today in heavy traffic - very mild day - spiked to 105 and then as soon as I accelerated the fan pulled it back down to 100 and then 98, 95 and back to 90 within a minute of a free run....so I suspect new rad might be the go...anyone know the best place to get one...should I go genuine and if so BMI or similar?

Cheers

[ozscott]

Spiked to 208 for literally 2 seconds the other day...new radiator going in this week. I am going to install a TEFBA filter. Used the same one in several holdens over 8 years many years ago and they are fantastic durable bits of kit. Anyone know 1. the top radiator hose size in inches and 2. where to get one in Brisbane? Cheers

[ozscott]

I see the maker sells them on ebay

[Tombie]

Scott

When was the last time you cleared all the fins on the A/C condenser and Trans cooler?

Also look at your electric fans, are they cutting in (turn your A/C on and look)...

[rovercare]

I could never live with over 100in any case. May be being too conservative and old school but it's just not right.Especially on something that is so prone to being effected by it.


Personally I wouldn't want to see my engines run over 95.There's only a minute's running between 105 and 125 at which point the engines knackered. Pat

Why? lots of vehicles have 92-95-98* thermostats to comply with emmissions, you won't ruin an engine running at 125*C, you ruin it when the water boils off and there is nothing left to cool it:D

[ozscott]

Thanks fellas. Toombie - the AC fans come on when they should. I havent checked the little coolers - will do that when I insert the new radiator. My bet is that it has been a combination of things.

I agree that modern motors are meant to run hotter for emissions and economy and the injection, timing etc is geared to that. However the V8 Thor does not normally run as hot as 105-108 and in fact when new and towing 2 tonns on VERY hot days in stop start traffic she would not crack 100 on the scan gauge, so hot yes, but not THAT hot...in other words they are not meant to run at 105 plus...

Cheers

[ozscott]

Okay...back to original temps..thing of beauty. New rad is in and scanguage II is now showing 91-93 generally driving and max of 98 stationary idling. Brilliant.

Pantyhose has been placed over end of top rad hose at moment but I am ordering a TEFBA filter (I had them years ago in various cars and bloody brilliant as long as you dont mind checking them weekly - quick and painless).

Cheers