brake linings problem

[series1buff]

My rear brake drums on the 1950 80" have been machined out . I noticed that the new linings don't have a full contact on the drums, they only touch at the top. This results in a low pedal ( the radius of the linings doesn't match the drums ? ) . I'm thinking I need new drums . The brake place should have radiused the linings to fit the drums , they used to do this years ago on a machine , when oversize linings were fitted , but apparently it isn't done now.

Any comments ?

Mike

[richard4u2]

i used to work for a place called carbon brakes here in the west back in the late 60's and brake shoes came in 3 different sizes, standard , 1st oversize and 2nd oversize and we only machined a drum no bigger then to suit 2nd oversize , they should be able to measure your drum and sell you a size to suit but the trouble is to find an old bloke who can remember what drum brakes are :)

[chris1983rangie]

Ring Trade Brake & Clutch Co. PH: 03 9546 7222

Trade Brake and Clutch Co (http://www.tradebrake.com.au/)

855 Princes Highway
Springvale Victoria 3171


they do all my brakes for my Landy's! hope they can help you out!

cheers,

Chris

[gromit]

My rear brake drums on the 1950 80" have been machined out . I noticed that the new linings don't have a full contact on the drums, they only touch at the top. This results in a low pedal ( the radius of the linings doesn't match the drums ? ) . I'm thinking I need new drums . The brake place should have radiused the linings to fit the drums , they used to do this years ago on a machine , when oversize linings were fitted , but apparently it isn't done now.

Any comments ?

Mike

Regarding the radius (or chamfer ) on the linings.....
My Father-in-Law was in the brake industry for years and he helped me set up the brakes on my Series 1. I questioned the lack of chamfer and he said it was stopped years ago. The theory now is that the chamfer or radius catches dirt/dust and holds it against the drum causing wear. The sharp edge of the lining instead tends to scrape dirt/dust off.

When I fitted exchange linings to my S1 they only had contact at the bottom, I had to hand file the linings to get a bigger contact area. The drums weren't machined but I didn't check their size so they may have been machined in the past.

My drums had garter springs on the lip at the rear, I couldn't work out what they were for but the Father-in-Law thought they were to stop 'ringing' when the brakes were applied. He'd turned up many hundreds of brake drums and had a set of massive elastic bands that had to be slipped onto the drums while they were being machined to stop them squealing. Sounded feasible.....

Colin

Just re-read your post and I may have gone off on a tangent....I think you were suggesting machining to suit the diameter of the re-machined drum.

[series1buff]

Just re-read your post and I may have gone off on a tangent....I think you were suggesting machining to suit the diameter of the re-machined drum.

Hi Colin

Yes thats what I was on about .

I have come up with what might be a solution... I might turn up some new locating studs for the shoes - the stud below that bolts through the backing plate and locates the shoes. If I make the diameter of the stud bigger, it will locate the shoes 'OUT' a bit , making them more of a match to the drum radius . The shoes have curved ends to locate in the stud .

My front brakes are good .

When I squeeze the rear brake hose off with a clamp .. the pedal comes up very high and solid .. the front drums and linings are new , fitted by a previous owner . This indicates the problem is in the rear brakes , obviously.

I have 4 new slave cylinders ,, series 2-3 type with adapters . Its been a puzzling problem I have to admit ...

Mike

[gromit]

Mike,

Like yourself I clamped off flexible lines to track down the spongieness in the brakes. I ended up fitting adjusters for the trailing shoes to take up some of the wasted pedal travel.
I got adjusters from 4wheel drives, I think they were made out of cheese because they weren't too strong (another thing to add to the list of stuff not to buy from them....).

Ended up with reasonable travel but it's still like stopping an ocean liner in that you have to plan well ahead.

When linings were rivetted on most brake companies did it in-house and would re-machine to suit. Now they are bonded on they get sent away to be bonded.
I was able to get exchange linings off-the-shelf for my Series 1 from Neville Pearce Brakes in Hallam (now NPB Brakes since Neville sold out). There is another brake company in Dandenong I visited a couple of weeks ago that would also be able to help out. Small, family run company round the corner from Rays Outdoors, I just can't remember their name....

Colin

[series1buff]

Mike,

Like yourself I clamped off flexible lines to track down the spongieness in the brakes. I ended up fitting adjusters for the trailing shoes to take up some of the wasted pedal travel.
I got adjusters from 4wheel drives, I think they were made out of cheese because they weren't too strong (another thing to add to the list of stuff not to buy from them....).

Ended up with reasonable travel but it's still like stopping an ocean liner in that you have to plan well ahead.

When linings were rivetted on most brake companies did it in-house and would re-machine to suit. Now they are bonded on they get sent away to be bonded.
I was able to get exchange linings off-the-shelf for my Series 1 from Neville Pearce Brakes in Hallam (now NPB Brakes since Neville sold out). There is another brake company in Dandenong I visited a couple of weeks ago that would also be able to help out. Small, family run company round the corner from Rays Outdoors, I just can't remember their name....

Colin

Roger that,

I used a brake joint in Warragul, I'm not very happy with them . I asked for soft linings as it really helps with old cars ..more braking effect. They sent them away and it took weeks , after all that they stuffed it up anyway .

Yes I tried the adjusters on the trailing shows , but it made no difference as the linings radius is all stuffed up. I may have to buy new drums from 4 wheel drives . I go through Hallam sometimes ..........
Mike

[Walster]

Hi,

I used Trade Brake & Clutch Co, also, but I took my drums into them and asked for the brake lining to be fitted to suit. They did a wonderful job with a 5 day turn around.

I just supplied them the drums (which my retired father had machined up within spec of the manual) and all the brake shoes minus the lining.

They also SS sleaved my slave cylinders, I cannot fault them for the job they did, from memory I paid $600 all up for 4 wheels + they also did the hand brake shoes/linings.

Regards

Wal

[numpty]

Hi,

I used Trade Brake & Clutch Co, also, but I took my drums into them and asked for the brake lining to be fitted to suit. They did a wonderful job with a 5 day turn around.

I just supplied them the drums (which my retired father had machined up within spec of the manual) and all the brake shoes minus the lining.

They also SS sleaved my slave cylinders, I cannot fault them for the job they did, from memory I paid $600 all up for 4 wheels + they also did the hand brake shoes/linings.

Regards

Wal

A good way to go, although when I did the S11 (SWB, so same as S1) I bought 4 new drums, linings, wheel cylinders, master cylinder and flexible hoses, for around the same money.

[back_in]

Hi All
a word from the wise one!
check your flex rubber hoses
when old they will swell like a Balloon
under pressure
changing will solve many brake problems
if nothing else, Remember this, will save you much heartache
cheers
Ian

[series1buff]

Hi All
a word from the wise one!
check your flex rubber hoses
when old they will swell like a Balloon
under pressure
changing will solve many brake problems
if nothing else, Remember this, will save you much heartache
cheers
Ian

Ian

Your words are good timing ...yes stupid me .. I've discovered that the problem is a hydraulic thing after all.. The hose maybe it .. but I think there is air trapped in the pipe .. the curved section over the diff centre .. it goes up and over the diff ...

I'm going to disconnect the pipe at the rear hose and plug the pipe , then play around with pressure bleeding from there. But I know that faulty hoses can behave like a one way valve ... forcing the brakes on permanently = smoke and hot drums

MIKE

[scoteye]

My rear brake drums on the 1950 80" have been machined out . I noticed that the new linings don't have a full contact on the drums, they only touch at the top. This results in a low pedal ( the radius of the linings doesn't match the drums ? ) . I'm thinking I need new drums . The brake place should have radiused the linings to fit the drums , they used to do this years ago on a machine , when oversize linings were fitted , but apparently it isn't done now.

Any comments ?

Mike
They should still radius grind i was still doing it 4 years ago, It is a specialist thing though, is the problem fixed? a low percentage of contact can give the feeling of a spongy pedal but most likley the hoses

[scoteye]

[QUOTE=series1buff;1346119]Roger that,

I used a brake joint in Warragul, I'm not very happy with them . I asked for soft linings as it really helps with old cars ..more braking effect. They sent them away and it took weeks , after all that they stuffed it up anyway .

Ask for the moulded linings Some just call it roll lining as it comes in rolls of 2m or more "original" its the softest for modern applications the only thing softer is woven which you can still get. prob good for standard series 1

Always try to get the moulded as the minimum thickness on drums and rotors is less these days i found with harder segment type linings that you will be lucky to get to second oversize any more combined with the lack of asbestos

[series1buff]

My brake saga has gone on longer than the water pump one on this forum....

I disconnected the rear brake hose at the pipe side and screwed on a fitting with a short bit of 1/4 pipe , then used the garden sprayer to really pump in the brake fluid. The problem was the long line to the pass. side cylinder .. yep, air trapped in it . After opening the bleed screw , the fluid really spurted out , you need to do this to get rid of all the trapped air in the bump over the diff housing .

Well it worked and I finally got a nice high pedal . Carefully reconnect the hose and its done . I pushed a stopper/plug into the pipe while it was disconnected from the hose , but the fluid didnt want to run out anyway .

The problem is 1/4 pipes hold a lot of air

Mike