Info on How to get a Better ride

[matthew2]

HI ALL
How can I get a better ride out of mt 110 ? I have changed all the shocks and springs , I have got the original tires on it the real skinny ones on steel wheels .W would putting a fatter Tyre and rim make a difference ? I give a example earler on 3 families which one of them was mine we toured outback NSW ,SO THERE WAS ALOT OF DIRT ROAD DRIVING .My 110 was shacking rattling and real noise to the point we could listen to the radio . We pulled over for a bite to eat and I said to my friend can I drive your Cruiser down the road ! well I was shocked it flew over the corrugated track no problem at all I was tripping out thinking I had o drive the Defender . What are the new defenders like ? have they improved or just the same .

[Rangier Rover]

Your suspension is either totally stuffed or some one has messed with it big time. Even in standard form the earlier and current coil sprung Rovers have the best live axle suspension on the market today.;)
Before you go and change anything you need to tick a few boxes.
Heaps of info here. Use the search function and have a read.

[dmdigital]

Tyre pressures?
Spring Rates?
Shocks?

Any combination of: Heavy springs, poor shock selection, too higher tyre pressures; will ruin any ride.

Also state of bushes on arms and on A-frame as well as A-frame ball joint.

[Naks]

How can I get a better ride out of mt 110 ?

Define 'better'? Remember, it's not a car.



My 110 was shacking rattling and real noise to the point we could listen to the radio ..

Sounds about right for a corrugated gravel road. If you deflate your tyres on a dirt road, you will improve the road handling :D

[abaddonxi]

What condition are your suspension bushes in?

[HangOver]

Info on How to get a Better ride

OK is it just me or did several humerous replies go through your mind when you read this?

[Rangier Rover]

Info on How to get a Better ride

OK is it just me or did several humerous replies go through your mind when you read this?

Reads to me, if you want a better ride, get a Toyota:D

[Scallops]

Kind of agree - Just the same - I had the same experience - drove the "other bloke's" Patrol when we drove the Gunbarrel - chalk and cheese. The Defy had tyre pressure dropped to 24psi - and the vehicle was near new. The Patrol was running 45psi and it was heaps smoother. Plus it didn't fall to bits.

You've got to wonder.

[SheldonA]

Throw the coils away and fit some air bags.

I have fitted some of these to the rear (and have some to go in the front);

Firestone Airide Replacement Air Spring - w02-358-9901 [w02-358-9901] | $104.95 (http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php'main_page=product_info&products_id=8628)

With the exchange rate where is is at the moment US$105 per corner is pretty good.....

[spudboy]

Hey Grubb - can you raise and lower the height by increasing/decreasing the air pressure? Or do you just run them at a set pressure all the time? Does a lower pressure give you a softer ride?

I guess I am asking - if you change the pressure does the vehicle height go up and down, or does the height stay the same, and the 'comfort' level change from soft to hard...... or maybe both happens :D

[isuzurover]

Hey Grubb - can you raise and lower the height by increasing/decreasing the air pressure? Or do you just run them at a set pressure all the time? Does a lower pressure give you a softer ride?

I guess I am asking - if you change the pressure does the vehicle height go up and down, or does the height stay the same, and the 'comfort' level change from soft to hard...... or maybe both happens :D

If you change the pressure the vehicle will go up and down. However they are very comfortable. I recently did the canning, and my 110 rode much better over the corrugations than an almost identical 110 with coils.

I have these in the rear:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/600.jpg[/QUOTE]

[LowRanger]

HI ALL
How can I get a better ride out of mt 110 ? I have changed all the shocks and springs , I have got the original tires on it the real skinny ones on steel wheels .W would putting a fatter Tyre and rim make a difference ? I give a example earler on 3 families which one of them was mine we toured outback NSW ,SO THERE WAS ALOT OF DIRT ROAD DRIVING .My 110 was shacking rattling and real noise to the point we could listen to the radio . We pulled over for a bite to eat and I said to my friend can I drive your Cruiser down the road ! well I was shocked it flew over the corrugated track no problem at all I was tripping out thinking I had o drive the Defender . What are the new defenders like ? have they improved or just the same .


Are you sure that you aren't mixing up rattles and general cabin noise with it actually being rough to ride in?Because the cabin of a Defender will never be quiet,unlike the isolated cabins of the later Japanese vehicles.Go through a swollen creek and see how nice these moving lounge suites are though:D
If it was riding roughly in the suspension,as previously mentioned you will need to check the springs and shocks and suspension bushes,as there isn't a lot out there that travel these sort of roads as well as a Land Rover,and nothing out of Japan:wasntme:

Wayne

[spudboy]

If you change the pressure the vehicle will go up and down. However they are very comfortable. I recently did the canning, and my 110 rode much better over the corrugations than an almost identical 110 with coils.

I have these in the rear:


Thanks for that. I took a look at that design from another thread, and wondered if you went through heavy mud/sand, if you'd get gunk up between the bag and the steel "cone" that would wear the bag.

Have you put yours through sticky mud at all?

Hmmmm - now I am thinking of replacing the springs on my 130 with air-bags. I was going to get something from LRA, but these sound intruiging.

[isuzurover]

Have you put yours through sticky mud at all?



This answer your question? :D
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/1500.jpg

And that was before we got 84 mm of rain!!!

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/1155.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/1156.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/06/406.jpg

A week of almost non stop mud was no problem. The did rub on the coil turrets slightly, but only because I made the top mounts too short.

[spudboy]

OK - I'll take that as a "yes" :D

I was thinking that stones and small bits of sticks or whatever might get between the bag and the steel parts and wear a hole.

If you did get a puncture in one, can they be fixed just like a tyre? I am imagining putting in one of those liquorice strip puncture repairs if you got a hole in one, but maybe the sidewalls are too thin.

I'm off to do some more research!

[matthew2]

Thanks guys for all the replies ! The tires I have on are 7.50/16 and I am going to change them to 235/75/16 or 265/75/16 are these tires too big ? I dont wont any rubbing at all ,also I will be changing the rims from 5.50/16 to 8inch by 16inch .Another problem was I was running the tires to hard so that made the vibration even worse :eek::eek:

[isuzurover]

Thanks guys for all the replies ! The tires I have on are 7.50/16 and I am going to change them to 235/75/16 or 265/75/16 are these tires too big ? I dont wont any rubbing at all ,also I will be changing the rims from 5.50/16 to 8inch by 16inch .Another problem was I was running the tires to hard so that made the vibration even worse :eek::eek:

255/85-16 on 7" rims works well. As others have said - check all your suspension bushes. Particularly panhard rod, radius arm axle end, and grease/check the a-frame ball joint.

Dropping the tyre pressures makes a difference.





If you did get a puncture in one, can they be fixed just like a tyre? I am imagining putting in one of those liquorice strip puncture repairs if you got a hole in one, but maybe the sidewalls are too thin.


They can be repaired using tubeless plugs. They are extremely tough though and have plenty of reinforcing. Plus - a spare bellows is easier to carry than a spare coil.

[slug_burner]

If you change the pressure the vehicle will go up and down. However they are very comfortable. I recently did the canning, and my 110 rode much better over the corrugations than an almost identical 110 with coils.

I have these in the rear:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/600.jpg[/QUOTE]

isuzurover,

I note that those bags have approx 15" of travel. Do they sit around the middle of that travel i.e., at approx 15" with +/- 7.5" of travel either side. Did this any lift? and did you have to adjust your sock mounts? I suspect that the shocks are now the limits on axle travel!

Would you recommend that type of bag knowing what you know now that you have fitted them and used them?

[spudboy]

They can be repaired using tubeless plugs. They are extremely tough though and have plenty of reinforcing. Plus - a spare bellows is easier to carry than a spare coil.

Ben - what do you run in the front - coils? Am trying to think how an airbag spring would work with the Defender setup as the shock is inside the coil..... Can you relocate your front shock and then use an airbag?

[malleefowl]

When you start to be at the age where you evaluate "ride" with back pain you will truly appreciate the coilx4 of the defender and the "agricultural style seating' which allows comfortable driving far surpassing most modern sedans.
VCheers,
mary

[isuzutoo-eh]

Spudboy, don't suppose you've seen Rovercare's thread?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/66265-120-extra-cab-40.html
Might answer some questions on air suspension (or raise a few more :p)

[spudboy]

Nope - but I'll have to take a look. 21 pages!

[Hoges]

FWIW: Had the same issue in a stock standard P39 (MY2000 model) on recent Cape york trip. The corrugations seemed they would shake it to bits even with the tyres reduced F24 (29) R28(38). did a 400km return trip into Weipa in a new (1400km on the clock) Nissan Navara diesel dual cab (Maxxis tyres). Over the same stretch of road where the P38 was unbearably rough, the Nissan was far more comfortable and rode the bumps very well...soaked them up:(.

I don't know whether the nissan has progressive rate coils or not. Also the bushings where the body attaches to the Defender/P38 chassis could have gone hard as also the radius arm suspension bushes. Am planning on replacing these.

Recently also was passenger in an 8yr old base model Prado ...stock std...the engine/transmission noisy as all hell but the effective cushioning of bumps on badly broken bitumen was most noticeable.

I did notice some slight improvement when I replaced the P38 shocks with OEM..the bushes were larger and a somewhat softer compound...

The suggestions in other posts are worthwhile following up...but I do believe the Jap makers seem to have put a deal of effort into reducing the NVH and improving cabin insulation.

Regretfully current budget doesn't stretch to late model LR to test them!!:no2:

[isuzurover]

isuzurover,

I note that those bags have approx 15" of travel. Do they sit around the middle of that travel i.e., at approx 15" with +/- 7.5" of travel either side. Did this any lift? and did you have to adjust your sock mounts? I suspect that the shocks are now the limits on axle travel!

Would you recommend that type of bag knowing what you know now that you have fitted them and used them?

I have standard height King springs in the front. So I usually set the rear air springs to be level. I have 1" bump stop spacers. So I have 1" less up travel then stock. When I (eventually) fit longer shocks I will have LOTS more down travel than stock.

The great thing about air springs is you can choose your ride height - and even change it day to day!

I am very happy with the air springs and the ride. The only issue is the diameter of the bellows, which means you need to space the spring down so it doesn't contact the coil turret. In the future I will either fit smaller diameter air springs (like thegrubb has) or modify the coil turrets.






Spudboy, don't suppose you've seen Rovercare's thread?
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/66265-120-extra-cab-40.html
Might answer some questions on air suspension (or raise a few more :p)

Matt has plenty of great info in there.

I also have a thread ;):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/99871-isuzu-county-tourer-11.html

[Rangier Rover]

A few of us on air now, it's Sooo much better than a coil in my application.:D

[abaddonxi]

Good Oil thread here-
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/good-oil/56981-air-bag-suspension-defender.html

Anyone have anything to add to it, drop me a PM with links.;)

[slug_burner]

Thanks to the measurements and photos on "isuzurover's" thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/99871-isuzu-county-tourer-6.html#post1255233) and the post by "the grubb" had a link where I found that sdtrucksprings don't ship to Aus. Went looking back at trucksprings with the aim to locate a set of bags where I would not need to insert a spacer under the bumpstop. Hopefully I am somewhere near the mark.

These are the bags used by isuzurover

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/600.jpg

I have gone for this type

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/601.jpg

I figure as isuzurover had to stick a spacer of approx 25 mm under his bumpstop I could allow the bags to compress down an inch or so to ensure the first thing that touched was the bumpstop at full compression. I have lost 1.4" on the down travel but that is fine as I have just got a new set of shocks and don't plan on buying new ones for the moment to make use of all that extra travel.

Hope it works out.

Now I have to work on the control side and the plates to attach the bags to the spring brackets.

Thought about this as I ordered the springs

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/602.jpg

But I like the idea of preset hieghts and a remote control for the bling factor as per rovercare 120" extra cab thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/66265-120-extra-cab-40.html)

[fraser130]

Throw the coils away and fit some air bags.

I have fitted some of these to the rear (and have some to go in the front);

Firestone Airide Replacement Air Spring - w02-358-9901 [w02-358-9901] | $104.95 (http://www.sdtrucksprings.com/index.php'main_page=product_info&products_id=8628)

With the exchange rate where is is at the moment US$105 per corner is pretty good.....

Can anyone find the Data sheet on these? I need to know their maximum load capabillity, and I can't find the data anywhere!

Cheers,
Fraser

[isuzurover]

Thanks to the measurements and photos on "isuzurover's" thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/99871-isuzu-county-tourer-6.html#post1255233) and the post by "the grubb" had a link where I found that sdtrucksprings don't ship to Aus. Went looking back at trucksprings with the aim to locate a set of bags where I would not need to insert a spacer under the bumpstop. Hopefully I am somewhere near the mark.

These are the bags used by isuzurover

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/600.jpg

I have gone for this type

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/601.jpg

I figure as isuzurover had to stick a spacer of approx 25 mm under his bumpstop I could allow the bags to compress down an inch or so to ensure the first thing that touched was the bumpstop at full compression. I have lost 1.4" on the down travel but that is fine as I have just got a new set of shocks and don't plan on buying new ones for the moment to make use of all that extra travel.

Hope it works out.

Now I have to work on the control side and the plates to attach the bags to the spring brackets.

Thought about this as I ordered the springs

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/10/602.jpg

But I like the idea of preset hieghts and a remote control for the bling factor as per rovercare 120" extra cab thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/projects-tutorials/66265-120-extra-cab-40.html)

Interesting!

Keep in mind though, that the spacer is needed as much to make sure the bellows don't rub the coil turrets. I have a 25 mm spacer under the bump stops, and a 37 mm between the coil turrets and the air springs. I probably should have gone 15 mm, as mine still rub. If I had modified my coil turrets I could have avoided the bump stop spacer entirely, and just used a 6mm plate between the coil turret and air spring.

[BilboBoggles]

Would you need an Engineering Certificate in Victoria? Will this be possible to obtain?

[slug_burner]

Would you need an Engineering Certificate in Victoria? Will this be possible to obtain?

I believe that modifications of the suspension in this manner will require an engineer's certificate.

[slug_burner]

Interesting!

Keep in mind though, that the spacer is needed as much to make sure the bellows don't rub the coil turrets. I have a 25 mm spacer under the bump stops, and a 37 mm between the coil turrets and the air springs. I probably should have gone 15 mm, as mine still rub. If I had modified my coil turrets I could have avoided the bump stop spacer entirely, and just used a 6mm plate between the coil turret and air spring.

Ben,

I take it that the coil turrets are the part that is on the axle. If that is the case it would appear that I have set myself up for a bigger spacer on the coil turrets and I will still need a spacer under the existing bump stop.:( I thought that the following measurement was limited by the size of the piston and the internal bump stop.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

So you have experienced rubbing at the bottom of the setup not on the top spring bracket?

[isuzurover]

Ben,

I take it that the coil turrets are the part that is on the axle. If that is the case it would appear that I have set myself up for a bigger spacer on the coil turrets and I will still need a spacer under the existing bump stop.:( I thought that the following measurement was limited by the size of the piston and the internal bump stop.

http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/isuzurover/County_parts064.jpg

So you have experienced rubbing at the bottom of the setup not on the top spring bracket?

No rubbing at the bottom - just the top. I suppose my point was that if you are willing to modify the coil turrets, then you can fit the air springs I have without the bump stop spacer.

The pic you posted was just the air bags sitting in place. This pic shows the upper spacer.
http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p29/isuzurover/LR_PICS/DucksJune_2010095.jpg