every thing about winches

[stig0000]

well iv looked and cant find anything about what im after, so il start it off,

im going to be buying a winch very soon after a few NOT planed trips out, trips that turned into 25hr and last week a 12hr recovery sesh,:mad::mad:

and god nose how many lil trips:D

so this is were its at, show us your winch and how its set up, what you like about it and what you hate and would change next time, duel batterys a must or just dont switch the motor off??

iv allways been on i dont need a winch becouse im allways with other people, well when your have 12 cars stuck with in snatch strap distance of each other you do have a bit of a problem, :wasntme:

[Blknight.aus]

A tirfor...

doesnt matter where or which vehicle gets stuck so long as youve kept it serviced it'll work regardless of flat batteries, stalled engines and it'll winch any way you want it to. And it transfers from vehicle to vehicle in under a minute in any carpark.

[miky]

A tirfor...

doesnt matter where or which vehicle gets stuck so long as youve kept it serviced it'll work regardless of flat batteries, stalled engines and it'll winch any way you want it to. And it transfers from vehicle to vehicle in under a minute in any carpark.

While the statement is true... if you have never used a tirfor I would seriously suggest you try before you buy. Apart from the speed factor you need to be pretty fit.
I have used tirfors for shifting large switchboards and motors into place so the distances were not great.

.

[Psimpson7]

Ok my setup is currently.

Front:

Warn Hi Mount (M8274-50)
XP 6HP Motor
Albright DC88-556PL contactor
Wire rope

Rear:

Warn XP (Swapped to 4.6hp motor from 8274)
Albright DC88-556PL contactor
Wire rope

General:

Both switched Internally and Externally
Both Isolated individually with 500amp continous, 2500amp peak isolators
70mm welding cable running through chassis rails for them front and rear.
Both running 500amp mega fuses just in case.
Dual batteries, connected with isolator.

Got loads if pics if you want to see them.

What would I change. In terms of general setup, nothing, in terms of hardware, I would put an 8274 on the rear now aswell.

This is the 3rd recovery setup I have used, the previous being XP's front and rear.

Rgds
Pete

[Adrian Mc]

Having used a tirfor for recovering a 6x6 I can say that yes it will pull you out any way you want but it is bloody hard work. It took 4 of us taking turns cranking to end up pulling us out in the end. Definitely not something I want to do again in a hurry!!

I have also been involved in the recovery of a 100 series Cruiser that was stuck in mud up to the floor pan.
A PTO winch didn't cut the mustard pulling it out, it was shifting the LR forward, even with chocked wheels and having spent time on a shovel digging. It took a Mack truck and a drag chain in the end to just yank the thing out.


Photo one shows the Cruiser stuck on the left and a LR driving past quite happily on the right
Photo two shows the winch cable still out (it hadn't been spooled back in yet) and the Mack that pulled out the Cruiser, and still the LR quite happily continuing on his way.

I wasn't driving the Cruiser by the way, I was in the winch equipped LR.

[Bearman]

I guess ultimately it's a personal decision which type of winch you go for. All the different types have their props and cons. Tirfors and come alongs are ok for the occasional use but they take up a fair bit of space and setting up. Electric ones are fine if you buy a reputable brand but the drawback with them is the slow retrieval speed and the need to have them connected to a separate battery and alternator capable to handling the current draw. Also you have to allow them to cool down when using them constantly. Then there is the PTO type which has a drive unit on the transfer case and a shaft to the winch. This type allows for the winch to be driven at different speeds by using the gearbox gears. You can also have the engine idling in gear and use the winch at the same time. The only disadvantge with this type is the engine has to be running so if you drown your engine in a creek crossing you have no winch. I have used all types including improvising a chain hoist and consider the PTO type to be the most reliable and robust especially if you run a diesel and have a snorkel etc to limit the possibility of water ingestion. There is a weight issue to consider with bar mounted winches and heavier front springs are usually required. The convenience of just having to pull or spool the rope out when needed is advantageous to setting up a tirfor etc. Horses for courses is the saying.

[weeds]

i have a pto winch, my install should be on here somewhere

have not really used it on my rig but have used them extensively on military 6x6's

i was about to buy a pto driven hydraulic pump to drive a hydraulic winch but the pto shaft driven came up at a good price

why have i not gone electric, the few times i have help out with an electic winch recovery there is normally electrical issues.......more poor installation or maintenance by the owner, in saying that 99% of 4wd would be fitted with an electric winch

[weeds]

Then there is the PTO type which has a drive unit on the transfer case and a shaft to the winch. This type allows for the winch to be driven at different speeds by using the gearbox gears. You can also have the engine idling in gear and use the winch at the same time. The only disadvantge with this type is the engine has to be running so if you drown your engine in a creek crossing you have no winch.


my pto does have the provision for a crank handle to be fitted so that you can winch by hand.........i have not tried it and would be happy not to experience using a crank handle.....which reminds me, i should make a handle up

[Bearman]

my pto does have the provision for a crank handle to be fitted so that you can winch by hand.........i have not tried it and would be happy not to experience using a crank handle.....which reminds me, i should make a handle up

That would have to be a Thomas 8000lb. As far as I know they are the only manufacturer that offered a hand crank as an optional extra. I used to have an electric EW8000 model which I bought new and specified the hand crank as well. I used it once to try it out and it was relatively easy but as slow as watching grass grow. Decided there and then that the hand crank would only be used in dire circumstances. Handle can easily be made up by slotting a bit of correct size pipe on 1 end and weld a small uni like a steering column one on the other with a crank welded to it. I forgot to mention that there are hydraulic winches as well but they are rare on 4bys, mainly used on tow trucks etc where they have a hyd pto pump on the gearbox. Winch itself is the same as a pto type except is has a hyd motor instead of a shaft drive.:o

[Skiboy]

We run a Warn HiMount 8274 but an older one (like 40 yrs old) we bought second hand and refurbished on our more extreme truck - have a almost new one (from Ebay and half price) for the new truck we are building. Advantage is that can rebuild and upgrade motors and gearing ratios as needs change if want on the winch.

I also have a Warn low mount on the everyday truck (not for comps).

See Gigglepin web site in UK the guys there are fantastic with parts they make which improve the Warn 8274 original design - so you have an upgrade path and parts source if needed. For some parts they make Warn does not make parts for - eg top gear cogs Warn requires you to throw the whole assembly out and buy new = expensive. Giggle pin make parts to refurb and with different ratios so you can match your need! And at a fraction of the cost of the original part. There is a reason all the competition cars run 8274 winches!

While expensive on way in they do hold value so if you sell truck can always sell this separately and get fair bit of price back - probably all your price back if you buy second hand to start with.

As Pete and others say set it up right first (any winch) - really big cables so can take the current - fuses and isolation switches so can turn it off if it all goes bad.

My Auto electrician advised me to fuse both ends of everything when running long cables as extra safety esp with duel battery set up. Fire is your enemy no 1 with these sorts of currents - equipment damage is secondary but important.

Isolation switch Pete mentioned is also important so that can turn the whole unit off when not in use and it CANNOT we activated from outside. This stops carpark idiots using their controllers etc to operate your winch - eg they can’t pull out your cable and then attach it over the roof to the rear and wind in over your car - was shown an example of this a few years back.

Ditch the solenoid packs or when they fail ditch them and use Albright control pack as neater and can install inside vehicle.

Most times we use the winch from in the cab so wire up in-cab control - (or get a wireless remote). Outside use will be rare.

If you buy second hand (any winch) see it working if you can then get the instructions and strip, grease and replace the brake shoes. Also replace the cable as you just don’t know what the cable has been used for nor how bad it is inside. It is best if you know how to do this yourself as you can then maintain it - esp if get it fully immersed on a trip can then strip and check. We run steel but the poly rope has merits but on long pulls the breaks inside low mount winches could heat and damage polly – no issues on HiMounts as brake outside the winch.

Add a breather to the motor - drill in lower side of motor where magnets are not located (will need to pull apart or do online search - one of the online 4x4 parts guys sell kits and instructions for this) and add a fitting (you will need to tap the hole) and air line up to a breather (can use and inline fuel filter at top) and run to top of engine bay where diff breathers are. As with diffs this will prevent sucking in water when hot motor gets wet etc.

We also run a separate Alternator (from wreckers) that is set up only to charge the winch battery. Really did this to protect main charge system and as a back up - ie we are essentially carrying an alternator spare part. We have the second alternator set up on a switch so that can turn it on an off - only on when 4x4ing - normal round town driving it is off. Auto electrician set this part up for me - we did all the rest.

A couple of final considerations - a lot of comps now require (1) external cut of switches to turn everything off (including alternator and ignition) if all goes bad - might be a useful safety feature (2) also batteries have to have a cover of thick rubber so if the car rolls/hits a tree or roo and compresses the bonnet it can’t short the terminal on the battery and hence prevent fire. This is a pretty cheap safety feature.

Hope that helps the thinking process.
Skiboy

[stig0000]

well got into a bit of a deal with tjm, there is a deal atm that if you buy a 9lb winch, for a extra 100$ you upgrade to the 12lb winch, hes gona do me a good deal on the winch and have it fitted for 140$, so a 12lb winch fitted for 900ish??? good deal we think??

[Skiboy]

What brand? I get emails form Taiwan offering these all the time. Need to check the quality esp of the brake! Also parts availability and serviceability. It will need a service at some stage.
Skiboy

[stig0000]

its one of there OX winches, they ok???

[Skiboy]

I don't know as not had one so will need to get people to post up about their experiences with OX
As I understand it a lot of these are rebranded made in China/Taiwan product. I think I was being offered them at about $180 AUD a unit plus freight. Which is what these places must pay if they then add freight and a margin.

If you PM me your email address I will send you the PDF of the offer so you can compare.

[stig0000]

tho i fully agree that prity much most of the winch for sale are just a copy of each other, iv been told, would you trust 300$ of cheap china been the only thing holding your car from brink of extinction?? so that has kinda made me thing well yer, if i buy a main stream winch, fitted buy them and with fully warranty, i have alot to fall back onto?

[stig0000]

new Q for everyone, the new rave for winches is the rope instead of cable,

is rope realy that much better then cable?? despite been very light

[KarlB]

There seems to be several advantages to me. The obvious one is the weight of course. Because of this it is also much easier to spool out. The biggest advantage, to my mind, is that the rope essentially stores no energy. Cut a synthetic winch rope under full load and it will just drop to the ground. No whipping or flying back. Another advantage is that it is much kinder to your hands with no 'steel splinters'. Some synthetic winch ropes also float and this could be an advantages in a watery recovery.

There are disadvantages though. They are not as robust and need to be looked after more carefully than a steel rope. They are heat sensitive and as such are not suitable for some winches. They are expensive.

All that aside, they have been used in the marine industry for many years and proven to be up to the job.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

[stig0000]

well tonite fitted a new 12.000lb tiger11 winch, fitted rite in perfect and all wired up nicely(only just on the +side, allways get to much cable:p) very happy with the way it looked built and had a qwick look inside and plenty of grease and twin double lipped water seals:o:o

now have to go try it out:D

[windsock]

That would have to be a Thomas 8000lb. As far as I know they are the only manufacturer that offered a hand crank as an optional extra. I used to have an electric EW8000 model which I bought new and specified the hand crank as well. I used it once to try it out and it was relatively easy but as slow as watching grass grow. Decided there and then that the hand crank would only be used in dire circumstances. Handle can easily be made up by slotting a bit of correct size pipe on 1 end and weld a small uni like a steering column one on the other with a crank welded to it. I forgot to mention that there are hydraulic winches as well but they are rare on 4bys, mainly used on tow trucks etc where they have a hyd pto pump on the gearbox. Winch itself is the same as a pto type except is has a hyd motor instead of a shaft drive.:o

Yep, just thought I'd throw up a picture of my winch so others can see the hand crank (HC) side of it. It is a Thomas Winch from Winch Industries EW8000HC. When I got this, the previous owner thought it was a PTO/electric winch. Posting on this site I realised what it was I had bought. I like it. The elctric side is fast enough for me and also pulls logs for firewood. The HC side of it is slow but it is better than walking out when the electric fails... I also use the HC for slow log work like turning large logs over etc ;)

These pictures are when I first got it home. I have since cleaned it up considerably and re-oiled it. According to Maurice Thomas (through emails to/from him), the original oil spec is ATF in the spur gear side and 90 weight gear oil in the worm drive.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/1050.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/1051.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/1052.jpg

[Mudsloth]

well tonite fitted a new 12.000lb tiger11 winch, fitted rite in perfect and all wired up nicely(only just on the +side, allways get to much cable:p) very happy with the way it looked built and had a qwick look inside and plenty of grease and twin double lipped water seals:o:o

now have to go try it out:D

I've got the same winch. Mine has spent a lot of time under water and when i pulled it apart I found zero moisture. The grease was still red! I've used it alot to pull other vehicles out of trouble and plenty of fallen trees of tracks. My only gripe is that one day when I really needed it the parts that mesh the barrel to the shaft broke and left me stranded. The bloke from tigerz11 sent me a new barrel which looked to have much sturdier parts and was secured with four bolts instead of 2. The thing i will change: I'm going to install a high speed fan to the control box to help keep the solenoid cool, will fit a breather that will double as a way to force cold air in and help with heat reduction That's another thing I like. Just the 1 solenoid.

[Mudsloth]

Stay right away from the cheap Chinese winches. I had one and it snapped completely in half. They would be fine for mounting to a car trailer or maybe an electric hoist but cannot be relied upon in a serious 4wding environment.

[Tank]

Stay right away from the cheap Chinese winches. I had one and it snapped completely in half. They would be fine for mounting to a car trailer or maybe an electric hoist but cannot be relied upon in a serious 4wding environment.
How was it mounted? got any pics, you know the rules, it didn't happen if there are no pics, Regards Frank.

[Tombie]

There seems to be several advantages to me. The obvious one is the weight of course. Because of this it is also much easier to spool out. The biggest advantage, to my mind, is that the rope essentially stores no energy.FALSE Cut a synthetic winch rope under full load and it will just drop to the ground. FALSE No whipping or flying back. Ever seen it let go? It does snap back. Its major advantage is lack of mass as it does. But I can tell you it stings like a ......... However - its unlikely to take you apart. Another advantage is that it is much kinder to your hands with no 'steel splinters'. Correct, but it will burn the heck out of your skin if its pulled across it quickly. Some synthetic winch ropes also float and this could be an advantages in a watery recovery. Yes, this is a great bonus.

There are disadvantages though. They are not as robust and need to be looked after more carefully than a steel rope. They are heat sensitive and as such are not suitable for some winches. They are expensive.

Yes and No.... Steel wire rope still needs lubing, cleaning and care. Kink a wire rope and you should throw it... I had my M10000 wire rope damaged performing a heavy recovery on a guy. 2nd ever use of the winch :(
Synthetic Rope has now been on 3 winches and going strong.
Synthetic needs washing (sand in the braid will wreck it) and you need to be careful about running it on/over rocks etc...

All winches run rope OK on spool in, models with spool out and the brake in the drum need care taken. There are heat sleeves to prevent the issue. Winch method can be modified to work in the limitations.

I've run amsteel on 9500XP, XD9000, 12,000lb TMAX and now on the Premier 9500 (which has external brake). None of these have had issues.

All that aside, they have been used in the marine industry for many years and proven to be up to the job.

Cheers
KarlB
:)

Agreed :BigThumb:

[uninformed]

Agreed :BigThumb:

where is a good place to buy Amsteel?

[Owl]

where is a good place to buy Amsteel?
I brought mine here
OKoffroad - 4x4 Recovery Gear - News 'N Views - 4x4 Accessories (http://www.okoffroad.com/)

Ian

[clubagreenie]

GIven that most of the ebay types of cheaper winches run around $500-to$700-depending on rating. Would most here buyoneof the cheaper ones new or a warn (m10000) 2nd hand at a similar price?