LT95 Clutch Replacement

[HotWired]

While i have the engine out, ill be replacing the clutch friction plate, and pressure plate but have no idea where to start looking.

So far i only have a part number for the 4BD1T pressure plate (8970317592, im pretty sure this is for the 4 speed).

As for the friction plate im not sure, but would like something heavy duty.

Any help would be great.

Thanks

[steveG]

AFAIK the pressure plates are the same regardless of the gearbox, but the friction plate spline has to match your gearbox (different between 4 and 5 speeds).
The pressure plate is Isuzu type, and the friction plate is LR.
I know there are some aftermarket ones, but no idea if they are any good or whether its best just to go genuine.

I'm also interested in what others are using.

Steve

[HotWired]

Here's some info ive got so far.

Isuzu:
Pressure Plate (8970317592): $405.91 + GST

Landrover:
Pressure Plate (8970317592): $405 + GST
Clutch Plate (AYG3616): $227.25 + GST

Repco:
Clutch Kit (inc Turbo pressure plate): $638 ($600 with discount)
Clutch Kit (non turbo, but heavy duty clutch): $571
Clutch Kit (non turbo, standand clutch): $457

Bursons:
Clutch Kit (inc Tubo pressure plate, heavy duty): $530
Clutch Kit (non turbo, standand): $430

M.R.Automotive:
Clutch Kit: $595

[HotWired]

But yeh the question is to buy after market or stick with genuine.

I might look at getting the pressure plate genuine from Isuzu/Landrover, but get a heavy duty clutch else where.

[isuzurover]

But yeh the question is to buy after market or stick with genuine.

I might look at getting the pressure plate genuine from Isuzu/Landrover, but get a heavy duty clutch else where.

JC recommended the genuine clutch plate to me. The clutch plate is the same between the 4BD1 and 4BD1T, but as mentioned the pressure plate is different.

I fitted a near new, genuine 4BD1T pressure plate (thanks again Brian!). It is noticeably heavier, but hopefully won't slip after only 100k km like my old one did!

Make sure you get the flywheel machined as well. And replace the rear main while you have it apart.

[HotWired]

Knights House of Rover put me onto a place in Brisbane called Direct Clutch Services who will do a kit for $505.

This includes:

Throw out bearing
Hvy duty clutch plate
Reconditioned Pressure plate + he is going to high torque it to suit the turbo'd engine.
machine fly wheel

Sounds pretty good, and the guy was very helpful.

[isuzurover]

Reconditioned Pressure plate + he is going to high torque it to suit the turbo'd engine.


I would be VERY wary of the above. At least with the OEM one you know it will work! How will he reco the pp and what exactly will he mod?

Matt gave me a new throwout bearing in exchange for a case of beer.
Genuine (Borg and Beck) clutch plate was $50 (I think?) from JC (NOS)
Near new turbo PP was $200ish from Brian/Bearman
Flywheel machining was ~$30

[HotWired]

I would be VERY wary of the above. At least with the OEM one you know it will work! How will he reco the pp and what exactly will he mod?

Matt gave me a new throwout bearing in exchange for a case of beer.
Genuine (Borg and Beck) clutch plate was $50 (I think?) from JC (NOS)
Near new turbo PP was $200ish from Brian/Bearman
Flywheel machining was ~$30

No worries, I might speak to them and find out some more info. JC is justinc yeh? I might send him a pm.

[isuzurover]

No worries, I might speak to them and find out some more info. JC is justinc yeh? I might send him a pm.

Yes - JC = JustinC. I think I was lucky that he had one sitting on the shelf.

He has replaced a few clutches on 4BD1Ts.

[c.h.i.e.f]

I also have a problem (clutch slipping) so was told to get a genuine clutch plate as they ardon't really cause problems (unlike the tdi ones flogging the splines out) and get a custom pressure plate made up ! Also be carefull when replacing rear seal DO NOT USE an aftermarket one use a genuine isuzu seal I think they are called a nitrol seal and are a redish colour !

[1103.9TDI]

Be really nice to somehow index posts so guys don't continually rehash subjects that have been previously discussed in great detail elsewhere in the ILES. Alternatively the 'search' function is available.

[HotWired]

Be really nice to somehow index posts so guys don't continually rehash subjects that have been previously discussed in great detail elsewhere in the ILES. Alternatively the 'search' function is available.

I did use the search function, but all i could find where part numbers for genuine parts and most threads where for lt85. There wasnt alot in relation to aftermarket vs genuine parts, or if to use heavy duty to standard

[1103.9TDI]

I know, I know, the critism wasn't aimed at you personally, It's just frustrating that we just keep going around in circles.

My advice for what it's worth, buy genuine Isuzu and Landrover parts if you can get them. If you run a turbo, get the heavest duty gear, and ensure it's genuine.

If you're flush with cash, don't need the vehicle for daily transport, and are into pulling gearboxes or engines out at the drop of a hat, then go for all the saving coins and experimentation you like!

[isuzurover]

I know, I know, the critism wasn't aimed at you personally, It's just frustrating that we just keep going around in circles.

My advice for what it's worth, buy genuine Isuzu and Landrover parts if you can get them. If you run a turbo, get the heavest duty gear, and ensure it's genuine.

If you're flush with cash, don't need the vehicle for daily transport, and are into pulling gearboxes or engines out at the drop of a hat, then go for all the saving coins and experimentation you like!

I agree with all of the above.

FWIW, my oem(?) clutch plate and NA pressure plate lasted just over 100k km (but only ~15k km after the turbo install). When I pulled it out the pressure plate looked fine, but the clutch plate was so work the rivets biting into the flywheel was the only thing ensuring I still had drive :eek: .

The genuine (turbo) pressure plate and oem clutch plate which replaced it have done ~50k km (including a canning trip fully loaded) and are holding up fine. If that setup is good enough for 6x6 perenties, then it is good enough for my 110.

[Dave_S]

On the subject of searching threads, going round in circles and so on, I'm still trying to sort out my clutch and none of the threads have quite answered the problem. They are helpful in that I know what won't work, but as of now I'm basically going to get a clutch plate made, modified or rebuilt because I can't find anything standard to fit. I've also called everyone in the business I can think of and done a lot of Google searching.

The point I'm trying to make is that while there is a ton of useful stuff here, we shouldn't discourage people from asking questions. Sometimes an answer is hard to find (or just not here) and sometimes people who are new to this don't know what question to ask, or what to plug into a search engine to get the right answer. As for genuine vs aftermarket, I'm now at the point where I'd be pretty bloody happy to find anything that fits.

[Bearman]

Why not just use a genuine turbo pressure plate and genuine clutch plate. The numbers are here on this thread.

[isuzurover]

On the subject of searching threads, going round in circles and so on, I'm still trying to sort out my clutch and none of the threads have quite answered the problem. They are helpful in that I know what won't work, but as of now I'm basically going to get a clutch plate made, modified or rebuilt because I can't find anything standard to fit. I've also called everyone in the business I can think of and done a lot of Google searching.

The point I'm trying to make is that while there is a ton of useful stuff here, we shouldn't discourage people from asking questions. Sometimes an answer is hard to find (or just not here) and sometimes people who are new to this don't know what question to ask, or what to plug into a search engine to get the right answer. As for genuine vs aftermarket, I'm now at the point where I'd be pretty bloody happy to find anything that fits.


http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/114009-clutch-pain.html

Dave, is there an isuzu PN on your pressure plate? Maybe I should come over on the weekend and have a look?

This may be of use:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/70981-clutch-change-advice-needed.html

[Dave_S]

Hi All,

Isuzurover and another Land Rover owning mate (who is also a mechanic) are at my place trying to figure out what to do with my clutch. The engine is fitted with the truck flywheel. The old pressure plate may have been custom made - it is 300mm in diameter. The old pressure plate is an Isuzu truck one. It is genuine and the part number is 8944731820. Does anyone recognise this part number? I'll try to call Isuzu tomorrow to see if they can help.

I have a replacement clutch plate that doesn't fit because of the splines on the flywheel side. I'll have to get another one.

The second question we have is could I use a Land Rover 275mm clutch plate with the 300mm pressure plate? We're leaning towards a cautious "yes", but opinions would be appreciated.

If not, will a standard Land Rover pressure plate (as used in Isuzu engined vehicles) bolt up to a truck flywheel? I think I've read that it won't, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Time for burritos and beer!

Cheers, Dave.

[Bearman]

Hi All,

Isuzurover and another Land Rover owning mate (who is also a mechanic) are at my place trying to figure out what to do with my clutch. The engine is fitted with the truck flywheel. The old pressure plate may have been custom made - it is 300mm in diameter. The old pressure plate is an Isuzu truck one. It is genuine and the part number is 8944731820. Does anyone recognise this part number? I'll try to call Isuzu tomorrow to see if they can help.

I have a replacement clutch plate that doesn't fit because of the splines on the flywheel side. I'll have to get another one.

The second question we have is could I use a Land Rover 275mm clutch plate with the 300mm pressure plate? We're leaning towards a cautious "yes", but opinions would be appreciated.

If not, will a standard Land Rover pressure plate (as used in Isuzu engined vehicles) bolt up to a truck flywheel? I think I've read that it won't, but it doesn't hurt to ask.

Time for burritos and beer!

Cheers, Dave.

Hi Dave,
I am sure that you can't use a landy clutch on a normal truck flywheel. The cut out for the bolts in the centre of the flywheel is wider than the landy one and the landy clutch plate won't make full surface contact with the flywheel. Also the landy pressure plate wont fit because of the above and the fact that none of the boltholes would line up due to the different size pressure plate. The bolts and locating dowels for the truck clutch are larger than the landy ones. However I do know that there IS a truck flywheel that is the same one as the landy has. Even the pressure plate is the same. I found this out with the first landy conversion I did. I bought a 4BD1 from a truck wrecker with low K's and found out that it was fitted with the correct flywheel and clutch. It was definitely a truck motor as it still had the 24V electrics and truck flywheel housing and filter setup etc. The wrecker couldn't or wouldn't tell me what vehicle it came out of. I would think that it must be one of the smaller trucks (smaller clutch).

[Dave_S]

The old pressure plate may have been custom made - it is 300mm in diameter. The old pressure plate is an Isuzu truck one. It is genuine and the part number is 8944731820. Does anyone recognise this part number?

I have been told by an Isuzu parts place that this is a standard (ie non turbo) 4BD1 pressure plate.

They managed to dig up a 300mm 10 spline truck plate for me, but the spline diameter is 39mm. I'm not certain but I have a feeling this is too big for the LT95 shaft. The plate is for one of the "6" series engines.

[bee utey]

If you are running a 10 spline (4 speed) box the clutch plate I found for this is in this link as given below:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/114009-clutch-pain.html

The 5 speed runs a 23 spline by 26.25mm centre which is the same as some Mazdas and certain Mitsubishi 2 litre stuff, but nothing bigger than about 240mm plate size.

[isuzurover]

Hi Dave,
I am sure that you can't use a landy clutch on a normal truck flywheel. The cut out for the bolts in the centre of the flywheel is wider than the landy one and the landy clutch plate won't make full surface contact with the flywheel. Also the landy pressure plate wont fit because of the above and the fact that none of the boltholes would line up due to the different size pressure plate. The bolts and locating dowels for the truck clutch are larger than the landy ones. However I do know that there IS a truck flywheel that is the same one as the landy has. Even the pressure plate is the same. I found this out with the first landy conversion I did. I bought a 4BD1 from a truck wrecker with low K's and found out that it was fitted with the correct flywheel and clutch. It was definitely a truck motor as it still had the 24V electrics and truck flywheel housing and filter setup etc. The wrecker couldn't or wouldn't tell me what vehicle it came out of. I would think that it must be one of the smaller trucks (smaller clutch).

You sure that the centre hole is too large Brian?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/29.jpg

Judging by crude measurements from the above pic, it seems as if the recess in the middle of the truck FW is slightly smaller than the friction material on the landie clutch.

Does anyone have an LT95 clutch plate they can measure? Then dave can measure his flywheel.



If you are running a 10 spline (4 speed) box the clutch plate I found for this is in this link as given below:

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/114009-clutch-pain.html

The 5 speed runs a 23 spline by 26.25mm centre which is the same as some Mazdas and certain Mitsubishi 2 litre stuff, but nothing bigger than about 240mm plate size.

Dave has 2 clutch plates that are 300 mm OD and (the correct) 10-spline. The old one of unknown origin which nobody can find a match for, and a 2nd one which fouls on the spigot bush housing, and would need the splined section flipped to work.

[Dave_S]

I just got home and grabbed the tape measure to check out the inside diameter of the flywheel, clutch plates and pressure plates that I have. The flywheel ID (being the ID of the machined face outside the bolts) is about 184mm. The ID of the genuine and non-genuine truck pressure plates I have are both about 186, so slightly bigger than on the flywheel.

Both the old and replacement clutch plates have an ID of about 170, so both would have a "ring" about 7 or 8mm sitting in space in the uncompressed area between the flywheel and pressure plate, if that makes sense. The additional friction material on the inside of the clutch plate doesn't appear to interfere with anything and you can see the unworn part on the inside. Does anyone know if this will create a problem?

Clutch and pressure plates all have an OD of 300mm.

As Ben (isuzurover) suggests, it would be really helpful if someone had the measurements for a Land Rover flywheel so I can make a meaningful comparison.

Cheers, Dave.

[isuzurover]

I just got home and grabbed the tape measure to check out the inside diameter of the flywheel, clutch plates and pressure plates that I have. The flywheel ID (being the ID of the machined face outside the bolts) is about 184mm. The ID of the genuine and non-genuine truck pressure plates I have are both about 186, so slightly bigger than on the flywheel.

Both the old and replacement clutch plates have an ID of about 170, so both would have a "ring" about 7 or 8mm sitting in space in the uncompressed area between the flywheel and pressure plate, if that makes sense. The additional friction material on the inside of the clutch plate doesn't appear to interfere with anything and you can see the unworn part on the inside. Does anyone know if this will create a problem?

Clutch and pressure plates all have an OD of 300mm.

As Ben (isuzurover) suggests, it would be really helpful if someone had the measurements for a Land Rover flywheel so I can make a meaningful comparison.

Cheers, Dave.

So the friction material on your clutch plate has an ID ~15mm smaller than the hole in the flywheel?

I am pretty sure I measured my flywheel and posted the specs on here - will have a look. It would help if someone could measure the ID of an LT95 (v8 or isuzu) CLUTCH PLATE though.

What is the OD of your flywheel and the OD of the pressure plate disc Dave?

[isuzurover]

I just measured my landie version.
16.0 kg
390 mm across the machined face
390 mm across the ring gear
165 mm across the recess

though mine might weigh a bit less after the grooves have been machine out... :(

Dave - how does your flywheel compare???

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/75970-torque-impulse-9.html#post1053126

[Dave_S]

My flywheel is about 366mm across the machined face, with the ring gear outside that. It's about 184 across the recess. No idea what it weighs though. It looks like the area of the machined face on the truck flywheel (which I have) is somewhat smaller than the Land Rover one.

[isuzurover]

My flywheel is about 366mm across the machined face, with the ring gear outside that. It's about 184 across the recess. No idea what it weighs though. It looks like the area of the machined face on the truck flywheel (which I have) is somewhat smaller than the Land Rover one.

That seems to correspond with Murray's measurements from his truck flywheel.


Isuzu truck flywheel housing is different to that fitted by Land Rover. Australian isuzu trucks have a 24V starter (2 bolt instead of 3) that is mounted lower and will interfere with the chassis.

The offset gear reduction method used in the starter, pushes the motor further away from the engine block.

You may be able to find a 12V starter with inline gear reduction that doesn't protrude as much. This is an option I am pursuing, but not urgent at this stage. Dougal uses a direct drive starter (but 12v motor running from 24v to gain more torque without gear reduction).

You will have to fabricate a gearbox mount for the left side.

The clutch slave cylinder is in a different location on the Isuzu truck.

The pilot bearing in the end of the crankshaft is different (6203 ball bearing with seals bot sides) - no mods needed (remove old nose piece and fit new bearing).

Clutch is different. Isuzu truck had 2 sizes (275mm and 300mm), if you use the smaller clutch plate to match the gearbox input shaft, one, you may not have to change the pressure plate. The bolt holes on your flywheel will not match the larger pressure plate - you may be able to drill new holes.

I don't know if the ring gear on your flywheel will be compatible with the truck starter.

Have you read this thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/isuzu-landy-enthusiasts-section/90033-isuzu-msa-gearbox-lt230.html) in the Isuzu forum? This would avoid a lot of these issues.

This is from the link above - John seems to be saying the 275mm flywheel should be fine with the 300mm pressure plate.

[Dave_S]

I just spoke to the guys at FWD in Brisbane. They have the LT85 Isuzu clutch plates in stock and measured one for me. They confirmed that the ID of the friction material is approx 175mm and the OD is 275mm. That should be the same measurement for the LT95 clutch plate.

I'm concerned that if I fit a Land Rover clutch plate it may start to drag as the friction material wears and part of it sits inside the recess. Does anyone know if I could get the centre friction material machined out to 185mm? Just a thought.

[1103.9TDI]

Why not just use a genuine turbo pressure plate and genuine clutch plate. The numbers are here on this thread.

Do it once, do it well, and do it for keeps.

[Dave_S]

Do it once, do it well, and do it for keeps.

That's exactly what I'm trying do here. And given that I was charged about $1,000 for the first clutch assembly which never worked properly and have spent more than half as much again on parts, some of which don't fit, I'm keen to get it right.

I'm getting as much info as possible and will probably have a clutch plate made to suit the Isuzu truck flywheel and pressure plate, mated to the LT95. Actually I'll probably get two clutch plates made so that if it works out I'll have a spare. I may also have a party to celebrate getting this part of the project out of the way. :beer:

[steveG]

Do you still want the LT95 clutch plate dimensions Dave?
I've got my old one sitting in the shed - can measure for you tonight if you want.

Out of interest, does anyone know what the differences are (if any) between the LT95 friction plate for the Isuzu (P/N AYG3616) and a rangie one (P/N FRC9773).

Steve

[Bearman]

Pretty sure the springs are a lot heavier.

[Dave_S]

Do you still want the LT95 clutch plate dimensions Dave?
I've got my old one sitting in the shed - can measure for you tonight if you want.

Out of interest, does anyone know what the differences are (if any) between the LT95 friction plate for the Isuzu (P/N AYG3616) and a rangie one (P/N FRC9773).

Steve

Thanks Steve - just for completeness, that would be great.

[steveG]

LT95 friction plate from Stage1 Isuzu:
Outer diameter 275mm
Inner diameter of friction material 175mm
Spring wire diameter 4.75mm

I don't know its history and no markings on it so cant confirm the P/N etc.
On the pressure plate side you can just make out approx 1mm ring where the friction material has been inside the pressure plate surface so hasn't worn.

Flywheel side
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/1744.jpg

Pressure plate side
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/12/1745.jpg

Steve

[Gavo]

Do you still want the LT95 clutch plate dimensions Dave?
I've got my old one sitting in the shed - can measure for you tonight if you want.

Out of interest, does anyone know what the differences are (if any) between the LT95 friction plate for the Isuzu (P/N AYG3616) and a rangie one (P/N FRC9773).

Steve
the spline is diffrent

[Vern]

how, they both run an LT95