I think Nissan has lost the plot

[Ace]

A bit slow I know and sorry if it has been done, just a bit behind in updating the news page on my website. But checked it last night and got the press releases in relation the new Patrol, Pathfinder and Navara. Someone posted a thread a few days ago about the price increases. But im just curious whether Nissan plan on giving potential Patrol purchasers the option of a diesel engine?

From what it looks like to me people shopping for the Patrol get one engine option, not really an option, but they have this 300 killer wasp ‘VK56VD’ 5.6-litre V8 petrol engine producing 560nm of torque.

Yet Navara and Pathfinder purchasers get a so called class-leading new generation 3.0-litre V6 Turbo Diesel, 170 kW engine coupled with a 7-speed auto transmission, which produces just 10nm less torque than the petrol engine offered in the Patrol.

Are Nissan trying to kill the Patrol? Whilst yeah some people will love the powerful V8 petrol engine but most new 4wd's sold these days have a diesel engine. I certainly hope that Nissan arent thinking of making the Patrol a petrol only model, maybe its to force people to buy the Pathfinder.

Don't get me started on how ugly the new model Patrol is and how it is close to looking like a 200 Series.

Article Details below.

http://www.the4wdzone.com/newpatrol.htm

http://www.the4wdzone.com/pathfinder_navaranews.htm

Matt

[samuelclarke]

I reckon the new Nissan Patrol makes the LandCruiser 200 look good...which it doesn't IMO. :thumbsdown: The Patrol used to be the best Jap 4wd wagon on the marketing for serious off roading. Let's hope Land Rover deliver the goods on the new Defender as I think the market is going to be wide open for it!

[crash]

Last year I was at presentation put on by the local Nissan dealer, talking about what was new to Nissan. He then said that the biggest market for Patrols was in Saudi, and they are Left hand drive. The demand for left hand drive Patrols was so great that the local dealer questioned if it would be made for right hand drive countries at all. The 2012 right hand drive Patrol has been sold as a Left hand drive for the past two years, and the "current" right hand drive models are still the old model with some very minor face lifts until 2012 it looks like.
I am interested to read the mag reviews about the new generation of 4wd's as they always questioned the Land Rover outback touring capability because of all its electronics. I bet that the new Toys and Nissans will have just as much electronics in them.

[PAT303]

Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat

[FenianEel]

All-New Nissan Patrol Fearures All terrain Technology For 21st Century

Is that a "fear of features" Ace:p

[sniegy]

I saw it at the Sydney Motor Show.
It was hideous! Didnt like the body styling with those Extremely large "D" pillars.
I could not believe the size of the engine as well as the vehicle itself:eek: it was just huge.

Hence why i drive a Land Rover;):p

[one_iota]

Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat

Sounds a bit like a Defender :p ;) :D

[Ace]

All-New Nissan Patrol Fearures All terrain Technology For 21st Century

Is that a "fear of features" Ace:p


Thanks FE, all fixed. I copy and paste the headlines and articles over from the press release site, add some photos etc and jazz it up, must have bumped something when I was moving it all over :D

[scarry]

Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat

X2
but no manufacturer would do this as they would be seen to be going "backwards"

But if the new defender is like this i suppose it would be going "forwards".....maybe?

[Ace]

I saw it at the Sydney Motor Show.
It was hideous! Didnt like the body styling with those Extremely large "D" pillars.
I could not believe the size of the engine as well as the vehicle itself:eek: it was just huge.

Hence why i drive a Land Rover;):p

I missed it at the motorshow because I didnt bother going to the Nissan stand, I wish I had now, would have liked to have checked it over.

I dont like the look of it, especially the tail lights.

[Ace]

Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat

I think calling them rubbish is a bit harsh. Land Rover have proven with this generation of 4wd's that they can make a 4wd on road friendly but then when its needed it performs excellently off road. Sorry but on all the trips I have been on with a D3 its made the D2 look stupid off road. I doubt it would without all the electricery under the bonnet, but thats the path that off roaders are taking, its something we need to start getting used to.

Whilst im not a fan of the 200 Series, i think for what it is its overpriced. They still fit into their slot in the market and they are quite good off road.

The D4 represents great value for money when you consider a bottom of the range 200 series is 80 grand (well the diesel is anyway).

[spudboy]

Last Nissan I had was a GQ (20 years ago?), and I quite liked it....

This one looks a little "chubby". Still it'll probably go like stink with that V8. Fuel economy: Meeehh.

[Ace]

Last Nissan I had was a GQ (20 years ago?), and I quite liked it....

This one looks a little "chubby". Still it'll probably go like stink with that V8. Fuel economy: Meeehh.

LOL, yeah it sounds like a nice engine. 300 Killer wasps would be good to play with, all be it in a heavy vehicle.

A mate of mine has a GQ wagon, been in it a few times, built like a tank and rattled my fillings out but you cant help but like them.

[PAT303]

I think calling them rubbish is a bit harsh. Land Rover have proven with this generation of 4wd's that they can make a 4wd on road friendly but then when its needed it performs excellently off road. Sorry but on all the trips I have been on with a D3 its made the D2 look stupid off road. I doubt it would without all the electricery under the bonnet, but thats the path that off roaders are taking, its something we need to start getting used to.

Whilst im not a fan of the 200 Series, i think for what it is its overpriced. They still fit into their slot in the market and they are quite good off road.

The D4 represents great value for money when you consider a bottom of the range 200 series is 80 grand (well the diesel is anyway).

Sorry but if a vehicle is fitted with rims larger than 16'' it's rubbish.I know from personal experience.If you look at forums here in Oz,UK,USA most members want the same thing.A wagon with a torquey engine,live axles with strong centres and axles and not fitted with gadgets and for a reasonable price,in other words a 4wd that can be used as a 4wd without changing tyres-rims,upgrading GVM's at extra cost just to do what it's supposed to do.I can live with electronics and pollution gear,big rims,big weight and big price I can do without. Pat

[Ace]

Sorry but if a vehicle is fitted with rims larger than 16'' it's rubbish.I know from personal experience.If you look at forums here in Oz,UK,USA most members want the same thing.A wagon with a torquey engine,live axles with strong centres and axles and not fitted with gadgets and for a reasonable price,in other words a 4wd that can be used as a 4wd without changing tyres-rims,upgrading GVM's at extra cost just to do what it's supposed to do.I can live with electronics and pollution gear,big rims,big weight and big price I can do without. Pat

I dont disagree that the market could do with a vehicle like that, it most definitely could, but the D4 does its intended purpose, and does it well. Its hardly rubbish though.

[disco2hse]

Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat

YouTube - IVECO Massif

[PAT303]

Yep,that what the new defender should be like. Pat

[crash]

Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat
Except for the jeep, the others are only available in the USA
1) Dodge Power wagon - Live axles, diff lock, winch, 33" tyres and great diesel and petrol engines straight from the factory
2) Ford Predator - IFS front with long travel suspension, rear diff lock, 35" tyres, and a killer V8, this is more set up for fast desert runs though.
3) Jeep Rubicon Dana 44, diff locks and again I think 32 or 33" tyres and full skid plates, only problem not available in the diesel.
Problem is manufactures apeal to the masses and very rarely to the exclusive, low volume markets. Why do you think there are so many AWD's on the market.
There are almost more 1/2 ton pickups sold in 1 month in the USA than Australia's total auto sales in a year. Do you really think auto makers really care about the Australian market when compared to North america, Russia and the European markets?

[Disco44]

The Iveco has taken a lot of it's design from the defender.But I think it's weight of 3 tons could be a problem here in Australia.e.g. motoring bodies like NRMA RACQ etc stipulate a top weight of 2.5 max for revelent roadside services.

[DeanoH]

Interesting. At first I thought someone was having a joke. That they'd got a Defender and changed the front just for a bit of a lark. Apart from the limp grille and woosy headlights looks just like a Defender.
Found a couple of second hand 2010 models on line (Italy) for less than A$40K. Wonder what they cost new.



Personally I think the 200 series,D4 and Patrol are all rubbish.Too heavy,wrong tyres,too expensive.IMHO the maker that brings out a live axle wagon with medium sized T/D engine around the size of a D2 and sells it for 50K with A/C without all the extra crap will make a killing.I'm not going to hold my breath for it. Pat

Couldn't agree more.

Toyota have abandoned the serious 4X4 market with weak front diffs and a crap engine not to mention a track difference front/rear of 4". Nissan gave up when it abandoned the 4.2 litre diesel in favour of a rubbish 3 litre and then left their customers hanging out to dry when they failed. Would never trust Nissan again. Landrover, you must admit good engines have never been a British trait, gave up the TD5 for the Transit engine. You just need to look at the second hand prices of 4.2 litre iTD Toyota/Nissan 4WD's compared to newer models to get the idea. A mate of mine bought a 100 series 4.2 iTD new six years ago. The dealer has rung him twice offering what he paid for it.
I'm afraid the days of a decent hard working simple 4WD are gone. Which is why I bought this.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2010/11/850.jpg

Considered a 130 but the crappy engine put me off. We still have the D2 as our daily driver and the boys use the RRC but this is our main tourer now.

Deano:)

[cookiesa]

I don't mind the look at all, looks quite good in the flesh. the diesel is coming...

Rumour is the GU will remain alongside the new Patrol in a similar arrangement to what they do with the Navara's.

[johncat07]

from what i've read the v8 will be availible for the patrol wagon/saloon only, the patrol ute will have an option of the current 3L(nissan) or the v6 which is manufactured by volkswagon. i drive an 05 telstra spec patrol with the 4.2t and beef up leafs in rear and am seriosly considering buying when it goes to auction. it is a weapon and alot smoother ride than my 130 tdi offroad. i have been pushing to get telstra buying landrovers again, they went of landies with the td5 extra cab models.

[isuzutoo-eh]

The Iveco has taken a lot of it's design from the defender.But I think it's weight of 3 tons could be a problem here in Australia.e.g. motoring bodies like NRMA RACQ etc stipulate a top weight of 2.5 max for revelent roadside services.


My County is apparently too heavy for the regular NRMA roadside assistance towing, i'd have to up it to premium cover if I want it moved anywhere not under its own power. This isn't because of vehicle weight alone, its because of GVM. Doesn't matter that I drive it with minimal load most of the time:mad:

[blitz]

hey Deano
your right on the money - for the price of one of the new "luxury" 4x4's I would take the NT OKA anyday and anywhere, just not into undercover parking.

My plan down the track is the full body with pop top or the dual cab, the allison auto, big rims, auto inflating tyres extra fuel tank and disappear for a couple of months a year.

and still able to use it to commute to work if I have to

[brianwood]

Pat, you're like me. Stuck in a time warp I'm afraid...Don't think its ever going to happen. Probably the 76(?) series 'Cruiser wagon would be the closest..

[B92 8NW]

Pat, you're like me. Stuck in a time warp I'm afraid...Don't think its ever going to happen. Probably the 76(?) series 'Cruiser wagon would be the closest..

Haha:D. Pat won't like that assertion. Then again I'd never pay 80k of my own money for a vinyl bench seat either:angel:

[Hoges]

I don't mind the look at all, looks quite good in the flesh. the diesel is coming...

Rumour is the GU will remain alongside the new Patrol in a similar arrangement to what they do with the Navara's.

hmmm that's interesting...Will Hagon was discussing it the other night on ABC radio and offered the view that no diesel was planned, just the big petrol V8. He also made some comments about the unreliability of newish Jap diesels in general...then added that they (Nissan) didn't have a diesel to suit the new Patrol anyway...guess we'll have to wait...and ...watch!

[DeanoH]

Pat, you're like me. Stuck in a time warp I'm afraid...Don't think its ever going to happen. Probably the 76(?) series 'Cruiser wagon would be the closest..

Not even close. Crap engine, weak front diff and single fuel tank. '70 series wagon', 20 years too late. You'd be better off with a 79 series with factory diff locks and put your own back on. Apart from the silly 5 stud rims about as good as it gets for a Toyota. Or a 4.2 litre GU wagon, re-tuned with 3" exhaust and larger turbo plumbing, add LPG and you have a very powerful, tough and economical Patrol.

Deano:)

[DeanoH]

hey Deano
your right on the money - for the price of one of the new "luxury" 4x4's I would take the NT OKA anyday and anywhere, just not into undercover parking.


Plenty of second hand XT's and LT's out there too. Best of all easy to work on and designed for rebuild not throw-away. Spare parts not an issue as locally produced/sourced and lots of generic bits.

Deano:)

[disco2hse]

The Iveco has taken a lot of it's design from the defender.But I think it's weight of 3 tons could be a problem here in Australia.e.g. motoring bodies like NRMA RACQ etc stipulate a top weight of 2.5 max for revelent roadside services.


Interesting. At first I thought someone was having a joke. That they'd got a Defender and changed the front just for a bit of a lark. Apart from the limp grille and woosy headlights looks just like a Defender.
Found a couple of second hand 2010 models on line (Italy) for less than A$40K. Wonder what they cost new.

Of course you know why they look like a Defender don't you.

New price is irrelevant unfortunately since they probably won't be released in our markets and there is no right hand drive version. But it meets pat's description of what he wanted.

[cookiesa]

hmmm that's interesting...Will Hagon was discussing it the other night on ABC radio and offered the view that no diesel was planned, just the big petrol V8. He also made some comments about the unreliability of newish Jap diesels in general...then added that they (Nissan) didn't have a diesel to suit the new Patrol anyway...guess we'll have to wait...and ...watch!

Yep, watch out for the twin turbo version of the V6 3.0 in 2012

"from what i've read the v8 will be availible for the patrol wagon/saloon only, the patrol ute will have an option of the current 3L(nissan) or the v6 which is manufactured by volkswagon" It's a joint development between Nissan and Renault, will be in the top spec Navara and Pathfinder early next year

[PAT303]

If they didn't make modern day POS so heavy they wouldn't need twin turbo's or 5.6ltr V8 engines.Lucky LR is doing something about it with the all alloy RR but it's gone past a joke when you need a GVM upgrade just to be legal carrying a full tank of fuel and five people. Pat

[PAT303]

Haha:D. Pat won't like that assertion. Then again I'd never pay 80k of my own money for a vinyl bench seat either:angel:

And needs a service tool to change the oil filter:eek: Pat

[rick130]

from what i've read the v8 will be availible for the patrol wagon/saloon only, the patrol ute will have an option of the current 3L(nissan) or the v6 which is manufactured by volkswagon. i drive an 05 telstra spec patrol with the 4.2t and beef up leafs in rear and am seriosly considering buying when it goes to auction. it is a weapon and alot smoother ride than my 130 tdi offroad. i have been pushing to get telstra buying landrovers again, they went of landies with the td5 extra cab models.

That might come down to the weight you carry in the back of your work GU.

We have an '01 GU coil cab ute and a 130CC and IMO the 130 with stock suspension was smoother off road than the Patrol.

Our GU has been an amazingly reliable vehicle from new.

[Ace]

If they didn't make modern day POS so heavy they wouldn't need twin turbo's or 5.6ltr V8 engines.Lucky LR is doing something about it with the all alloy RR but it's gone past a joke when you need a GVM upgrade just to be legal carrying a full tank of fuel and five people. Pat

That I agree with 100%. They are to heavy.

I dont think I would ever part with the money they want for the 70 series range of cruisers. i refuse to pay 60 plus grand for a big engine with a 1985 body on it.

At 50k for the defender that represents reasonable value, but for what Toyota ask for the troopy etc, they are over priced.

[p38arover]

Hmmmm. 5.6 litre V8. I wonder if it would fit the Rangie?

[Hoges]

interesting specs...no hi range /low range from what i could make out, and the V8 produces its max torque at 4,000rpm (which is in the same rev. region as the GenIII LS1 V8). For tractable control and towing, I'd have thought a low range box and max engine torque at lower revs would have been a better bet...despite the 7 speed auto box... probably reflects the growing length of "the bitumen" across the world...

[PAT303]

Or reflects on manufacturers not interested in making a working mans 4wd anymore.Seems bling sells. Pat

[Sprint]

the rumour mill has it that nissan are gonna be pricing the new patrol a LOT higher in an attempt to put the pathfinder in where the patrol used to be....

[pando]

interesting specs...no hi range /low range from what i could make out..................SNIP...................For tractable control and towing, I'd have thought a low range box ......SNIP..........despite the 7 speed auto box... probably reflects the growing length of "the bitumen" across the world...

Wondered that myself.

Anyone have specs on the auto box?

If 1st is low enough and 7th tall enough, would it still be enough spread without a transfer box?

[zuno555]

4H push 4L

http://images-2.drive.com.au/2010/11/02/2021034/Nissan4x4_600d-600x400.jpg

Maybe with a ton of aftermarket gear and chunky tyres (20" rims = big bucks for tyres???)it might look ok, but then you would be overweight cos the payload is so small :)

I often wonder, what cars are our kids going to do serious 4WDing with in the future???? Oh, thats right, 4WDing will be banned by then :eek:

[disco2hse]

I often wonder, what cars are our kids going to do serious 4WDing with in the future???? Oh, thats right, 4WDing will be banned by then :eek:

Won't be banned. Instead you will only have access to `parks' where they can drive safely with their specially equipped vehicles over, under, around, and through staged obstacles. After market components will be provided to meet the requirements of these obstacles. Unless you roll up in one of these you will be considered either a hick, or some other kind of down-and-out, or a `serious retro dude with the cool old-skool truck' (been called that already :rolleyes:).

There will be classes of obstacle so you can have your `off-road experience' without dirtying the bling too much. And it will be important that there are viewing platforms so video and photographic evidence of your `adrenalin pumping maneuvers' can be captured for uploading to social networking site blahblah.com.

Oh hang on. We got that already. :angel:

Funny thing is. A lot of the really hard stuff in days gone by was done in much simpler wagons. The only reason I don't go on a lot of tracks now is because the 38"-40" tyres now commonly used create ruts I can't negotiate without risking damage to my diffs and cross member.

[Ace]

the rumour mill has it that nissan are gonna be pricing the new patrol a LOT higher in an attempt to put the pathfinder in where the patrol used to be....

Well there goes Nissan as a serious player in the decent off roadability 4wd stakes. The Pathfinder is a car with higher ground clearance. Bugger all off road prowess from what I have seen.

All this will do is boost sales of the Pajero, good engine, plenty of power and still has half decent off road ability, and better value for money.

[DeanoH]

...........................................All this will do is boost sales of the Pajero, good engine, plenty of power and still has half decent off road ability, and better value for money.

I used to think the same, until I followed one down what I would describe as a good dirt track earlier this year. It was a current model diesel and had mum, dad and 2 small kids aboard. Factory tyres were pretty ordinary as was body roll, articulation wasn't all that good either. Departure angle was marginal and sills were being given a good scraping as well. I was quite suprised as I thought the Pajero was better than this. My SIIA, 45 years older, would have done a much better job.

Deano:)