Brake shoe orientation

[drifter]

I've had a look through The Good Oil and I haven't found anything definitive.

When I pulled the brake shoes off the 2a, (109") I noticed the shoes were set up like:

( )

When I look in the manual and at this link (http://www.series2club.info/forum/index.php'topic=6606.0), it would appear that they should be one over the other, i.e. one on top and one underneath.

Which way works?

[JDNSW]

As far as I can see they should work either way - but as far as I know all drum braked Landrovers have the shoes like ( ). I think the one diagram in that link that is different is incorrectly oriented. The main reason I can think of for the shoes to be upright is that it puts the hoses the furthest possible out of reach of damage.

John

[drifter]

Thank you John.

I thought of that, too - along with the fact that if I rotated them 90º then the flexible hose wouldn't have as much 'travel' in it.

[Mudpiggy]

One other thing to think of, is that if you orientate the shoes like ( ) it means that the bleed nipple will be on top of the wheel cylinder, allowing for all the air to be bled out easily (with slightly less frustration).

[Lotz-A-Landies]

The 11" brakes are one of those things that is not explained very well in any of the Rover manuals.

Firstly there are two types of rear brakes.

The late S1 109's had 11" brakes with a bottom adjuster this continues onto the Series II but not onto the Series IIa. In many respects these are superior because the wear the shoe evenly along the entire length of the friction material.

With the later 11" brakes you will find that the shoes are handed so you need to check the position of the adjuster post in relation to the snail cam.

I have always seen/had the springs behind the shoe - but am open to being corrected on this one.

[JDNSW]

............

I have always seen/had the springs behind the shoe - but am open to being corrected on this one.

Springs need to be behind the shoes to pull the shoes against the support posts.

John

[drifter]

One other thing to think of, is that if you orientate the shoes like ( ) it means that the bleed nipple will be on top of the wheel cylinder, allowing for all the air to be bled out easily (with slightly less frustration).

:BigThumb:


The 11" brakes are one of those things that is not explained very well in any of the Rover manuals.

Firstly there are two types of rear brakes.

The late S1 109's had 11" brakes with a bottom adjuster this continues onto the Series II but not onto the Series IIa. In many respects these are superior because the wear the shoe evenly along the entire length of the friction material.

With the later 11" brakes you will find that the shoes are handed so you need to check the position of the adjuster post in relation to the snail cam.

I have always seen/had the springs behind the shoe - but am open to being corrected on this one.

On the older cars I worked on with my father it was always the go - springs behind the shoes - for exactly the reason John has indicated below.

Thanks for the info on the rear shoes - I haven't got that far yet (nothing aft of the cabin at the moment) but will reabsorb that info when I get there.


Springs need to be behind the shoes to pull the shoes against the support posts.

John

Thanks John (I hope you are still enjoying your American vacation and offer extra thanks for taking the time to assist)

[JDNSW]

:BigThumb:
...........

Thanks John (I hope you are still enjoying your American vacation and offer extra thanks for taking the time to assist)

Back in Australia on Wednesday, but not home yet - and getting home is a bit problematic right at the moment - the river I need to cross to get home is probably about 3m above the bridge. There are ways round, but I need information on them before I try it. Hope to head for home on Sunday.

John

[101RRS]

I've had a look through The Good Oil and I haven't found anything definitive.

When I pulled the brake shoes off the 2a, (109") I noticed the shoes were set up like:

( )

When I look in the manual and at this link (http://www.series2club.info/forum/index.php'topic=6606.0), it would appear that they should be one over the other, i.e. one on top and one underneath.

Which way works?

And here you were supervising Toad's brake rebuild and you don't even know how to do your own :p. No wonder Toad's brakes didn't work first off :D.

You got it all sorted now and in for rego next week?:)

Garry

[drifter]

Me? Supervising? Hell no - I was just resting after getting up from the garage floor. You did the brakes.

Still waiting for the block to be done. He got the pistons today. Rego is a long way off.

[drifter]

Back in Australia on Wednesday, but not home yet - and getting home is a bit problematic right at the moment - the river I need to cross to get home is probably about 3m above the bridge. There are ways round, but I need information on them before I try it. Hope to head for home on Sunday.

John

I hope you find a safe way through.

[101RRS]

Still waiting for the block to be done. He got the pistons today.

Are you going the performance route and getting the block tunnel bored and the pistons and rods all balanced to the nearest thousandth of a gram?

[drifter]

Are you going the performance route and getting the block tunnel bored and the pistons and rods all balanced to the nearest thousandth of a gram?

Yeah, why not? :D

Nah, I am actually currently going the "why doesn't he stop taking on more work than he can handle and just meet the timelines he quoted" route.

[Mudpiggy]

The other day I was cleaning up some 11" brakes I'm going to transplant on to my IIA SWB. The thought just struck me...

The 109 has two cylinders per drum on the front!

This means that to orientate the bleed nipples in the right way to bleed air out more easily, they probably /should/ be turned differently (at a guess?), although it shouldn't affect "performance" in the long run.

I found this picture...

[Blknight.aus]

that diagram is wrong.

the pistons run horizontally, if they didnt you would never get one of the pistons to bleed.

there is an additional trap to fall into on the rear and thats the orientation of the shoes. there is a leading and trailing shoe and a left and right backing plate.

mixing them up will get you brakes that work but then wont adjust correctly once the shoes are APX 50% worn or about 20% if your drums are near max oversize.

[drifter]

The other day I was cleaning up some 11" brakes I'm going to transplant on to my IIA SWB. The thought just struck me...

The 109 has two cylinders per drum on the front!

This means that to orientate the bleed nipples in the right way to bleed air out more easily, they probably /should/ be turned differently (at a guess?), although it shouldn't affect "performance" in the long run.

I found this picture...

Thanks for that, but... as Dave says, it's not right. For one thing, the back plate won't bolt on in that orientation (hub holes are in the wrong place) ;)


that diagram is wrong.

the pistons run horizontally, if they didnt you would never get one of the pistons to bleed.

there is an additional trap to fall into on the rear and thats the orientation of the shoes. there is a leading and trailing shoe and a left and right backing plate.

mixing them up will get you brakes that work but then wont adjust correctly once the shoes are APX 50% worn or about 20% if your drums are near max oversize.

oh - thanks - I haven't got to the rear yet and didn't realise there were leading and trailing shoes. I did know about the left and right backing plate - the front ones are the same - oriented for one particular side.

[Blknight.aus]

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/45792-stage-1-county-defender-perentine-brake-warning.html


that'll give you a heads up.

[ezyrama]

that diagram is wrong.

the pistons run horizontally, if they didnt you would never get one of the pistons to bleed.

there is an additional trap to fall into on the rear and thats the orientation of the shoes. there is a leading and trailing shoe and a left and right backing plate.

mixing them up will get you brakes that work but then wont adjust correctly once the shoes are APX 50% worn or about 20% if your drums are near max oversize.

Hey Dave
Got Smeg going, is the brake pad orientation the same for the SWB S3??

[Blknight.aus]

umm no.. if its got pads then its got disc and theres only one way they go together

yep shoe orientation is the same. the shoes are different being smaller if you have the 10inch brakes as opposed to the 11's in OEM spec.

[NiteMare]

the one thing i've heard of for simplifying your life with 11" TLS brakes is to run the hydraulic feed to the lower slave first and then link up to the top one, rather than in the standard landrover pattern...

air rises and this sounds correct for easing brake bleeding...

i've used 11" rear brake backplates on the front of my 88" which meant all i had to do was crimp the flexi's when swapping from the 10" system and minimal bleeding, no servo at present and nicely powerful brakes ...

still useless after wading tho [bigrolf]