Puma... What else can it leak!

[BilboBoggles]

So my Puma has been leaking rusty water into the foot wells since new, been back to be fixed several times, still leaking, actually now it pours water onto the drivers knee as you go round roundabouts or break, so both passenger and driver get a free wash!. (Although the front passenger gets the free red rust treatment as well.)

This morning the Vacuum pump decided to turn the engine bay, front of bonnet and guards black with engine oil. Also noticed when looking underneath that the transfer case seems a bit oil damp...

Interestingly I greased the prop shafts under my 180,000km TD5 over the weekend and it's bone dry all over under there, and it's not leaking water......

Puma - 40,000k's old....

[stig0000]

sounds like you have a good one, trust me they can be worse:wasntme:

[kenleyfred]

you're not alone there. My SVX leaks in the same place, amongst many more. One of the more entertaining leak is through the (closed) sunroof. Apply brakes and water rushes in. My wife wears a white shirt for work. Funny as, but the UHF is mounted on center console and gets drenched each time.
She's not all that keen on driving the Defender to work and has some choice words when she gets to work on a rainy day only a little drier than if she had been on a motorbike.
My vacuum pump went at the same mileage. Dealer was expecting it and replaced very quickly.

Kenley

[Scallops]

I'll put some cash on the steering box being next! :p :(

[cucinadio]

:eek2:.....:eek2:......:closedeyes:...:glare:

[nugge t]

Not filling me with warm and fuzzies here fella's!!

[solmanic]

We only recently, after almost three years of ownership, located the source of my water leaks through the firewall. This was causing pretty much all the same water issues as you have listed - water in footwells, water dripping on driver's knee and foot (or passengers depending on which way you were leaning).

Towards the outside ends of the gutter that runs underneath the windscreen there are two seams where it looks like the gutter has been extended. The outer portions overlap the centre section and this creates a small water trap as water tries to flow out the ends of the gutter. My vehicle (and I suspect a lot of others too) had small holes in the paint at these points. Water would collect in the gutter as it was being pushed out towards the sides of the vehicle and just continually seep in through these holes. Once it was through the water would then saturate any pieces of foam or lining it tracked towards and eventually start dripping down into the footwells.

Both gutter seams have now been sealed up along with the seam in the roof where the front section joins the rear. This was an earlier suspected entry point. So far I haven't seen any more evidence of water coming through and we have had a fair bit of rain. The thing is, the gutter seams don't look like anything that would need sealing, so it is easy to see why they would never figure in anyone's assessment of where water might be coming in. The sealing solution my dealer did was a covering piece of body tape wrapped over the join (like the stuff on a lot of joins under the rear seat), fully re-painted over - not just some silicone.

[Scallops]

Not filling me with warm and fuzzies here fella's!!

You'll be right mate - I was only joking. :)

[solmanic]

I thought I should post some pics of the front firewall-gutter leak fix just in case anyone else is looking for the same fix from their dealer...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

It's not pretty, but it seems to have worked.

[wagoo]

Rusty water at that age ! Where do you think the rust is coming from ? Inside the firewall boxed sections I reckon. Do they paint the inside of the chassis? Oh dear, It looks like the Puma will be the model that drove the final nail into the Defender coffin.POS, POP,POC and POJ.
Wagoo.

[scarry]

I thought I should post some pics of the front firewall-gutter leak fix just in case anyone else is looking for the same fix from their dealer...

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

It's not pretty, but it seems to have worked.

So that's a permanent fix,by the dealer?:eek::eek::(

Just wait until those pics end up on a Tojo site.....

[ATH]

Total disgrace on a body they've been making in roughly the same way since the year dot.:mad:
Another nail in the Defender coffin as someone else said, for me anyway.
Alan.

[one_iota]

Total disgrace on a body they've been making in roughly the same way since the year dot.:mad:
Another nail in the Defender coffin as someone else said, for me anyway.
Alan.

I think the word roughly is appropriate in the sense of carelessly.

In this regard not everyone's Puma leaks so I suspect that something in the assembly process went awry that on that day on that vehicle.

Can't say that I'm impressed with that fix.

Mine leaked through the bolts at the attachment of the windscreen to the firewall. An application of sikaflex fixed that 2 years ago and not a drop since.

I'm bemused by the over-reaction of the Defender coffin builders to this issue. :p;)

[newhue]

weeelllll I'm a little worried. I finally got my 130 back from the dealer. In a fix some weeks ago I requested they look into a water leak in the passenger footwell. It was deemed it had something to do with the air conditioner.
Today just before I picked it up the dealer offered to wash it. Very nice of them, but I did spy a couple of drops on the drivers floor afterwards.
When I got home I had a look under the floor mats in both front footwells, and yes, there is water.
Not bad for a car with 1500klm on it.
I am trying to be positive on my Defender, but I am also realising for 58K, it could just be a piece of crap as well.
I mean com on guys, 60 years in development, I can't believe that we all love these things and make excuses for them, but they are just **** a lot of the time.

sorry, I do love mine, it does make me smile, it just ****es me off as well.

[samuelclarke]

It makes my 200tdi seem very good...I've only got the water leaks to worry about (which I never find the motivation to fix when it's not raining)...apart from that 384,000 on the clock and going strong. :D

It's a pity the Puma's have had their a fair share of problems, cause they seem to be a nice upgrade over the Tdi and Td5's. If I had the spare cash I'd go for a Puma 90 as well as my 200Tdi 110 (yeah I'm not getting rid of this one! ;) ).

To the OP, hope your Puma's issues get sorted! :)

[ciapek]

weeelllll I'm a little worried. I finally got my 130 back from the dealer. In a fix some weeks ago I requested they look into a water leak in the passenger footwell. It was deemed it had something to do with the air conditioner.
Today just before I picked it up the dealer offered to wash it. Very nice of them, but I did spy a couple of drops on the drivers floor afterwards.
When I got home I had a look under the floor mats in both front footwells, and yes, there is water.
Not bad for a car with 1500klm on it.
I am trying to be positive on my Defender, but I am also realising for 58K, it could just be a piece of crap as well.
I mean com on guys, 60 years in development, I can't believe that we all love these things and make excuses for them, but they are just **** a lot of the time.

sorry, I do love mine, it does make me smile, it just ****es me off as well.


LOL "60 years in development"

in 60 years they are yet to sort out a Head Light toggle switch, clutch master cylinder alignment, proper rubber compounds that withstand hot climate markets, assembly line tolerances, component life spans....etc.....water issues will be tackled at the turn of the century marker....lol.....
"ya just can't rush the british.......:eek:

[KarlB]

No leaks after 18,000 km in my 2010 D90 including from the sun roof. Very happy about it.

Cheers
KarlB
:D

[wagoo]

I think the word roughly is appropriate in the sense of carelessly.
I'm bemused by the over-reaction of the Defender coffin builders to this issue. :p;)
Leaks are one thing. Leaking rusty water on such a new vehicle is quite another worrisome thing altogether. My 45 year old series 2a leaks like a seive, but it never leaks rusty water. Just like NewHue said, Pumas make me smile.The feeling of joy comes from how lucky I feel not to own one.:)
Wagoo.

[one_iota]

weeelllll I'm a little worried. I finally got my 130 back from the dealer. In a fix some weeks ago I requested they look into a water leak in the passenger footwell. It was deemed it had something to do with the air conditioner.
Today just before I picked it up the dealer offered to wash it. Very nice of them, but I did spy a couple of drops on the drivers floor afterwards.
When I got home I had a look under the floor mats in both front footwells, and yes, there is water.
Not bad for a car with 1500klm on it.
I am trying to be positive on my Defender, but I am also realising for 58K, it could just be a piece of crap as well.
I mean com on guys, 60 years in development, I can't believe that we all love these things and make excuses for them, but they are just **** a lot of the time.

sorry, I do love mine, it does make me smile, it just ****es me off as well.

We exercise our option to buy and our option to sell...don't underestimate the resale value.

So be careful what you say because the potential buyers might be watching.;):)

[newhue]

yeh I'm new to the land rover experience. I'm learning to laugh, but it's just bazaar. No wonder the company has been bought and sold, bought and sold. I'd put money down the Indian's don't even hang onto it.

[one_iota]

Leaks are one thing. Leaking rusty water on such a new vehicle is quite another worrisome thing altogether. My 45 year old series 2a leaks like a seive, but it never leaks rusty water. Just like NewHue said, Pumas make me smile.The feeling of joy comes from how lucky I feel not to own one.:)
Wagoo.


I'm ahead....My Puma doesn't leak anything.... rusty or otherwise. :D

[dullbird]

have you had the recall done for the oil contamination of the shoes in the handbrake?

reason I ask is before ours was done transfer case looked like it was leaking..but it was just oil getting sprayed around probably from the prop or something...and the vaccc pump is also a known issue

[ciapek]

yeh I'm new to the land rover experience. I'm learning to laugh, but it's just bazaar. No wonder the company has been bought and sold, bought and sold. I'd put money down the Indian's don't even hang onto it.

Enjoy the experience for all the positives that you can derive from it.
After a while and after a few warranty scenarios(possibly a few dips from your own wallet) you will find out whether you are a Land Rover Enthusiast or not.

These cars don't make sence in todays modern automotive world.
Many will scoff and disagree, and don't get me wrong, Im not bagging the Modern Defender, just after 7 years of having owned one, Im Entitled to an opinion.;)

[newhue]

Enjoy the experience for all the positives that you can derive from it.
After a while and after a few warranty scenarios(possibly a few dips from your own wallet) you will find out whether you are a Land Rover Enthusiast or not.

These cars don't make sence in todays modern automotive world.
Many will scoff and disagree, and don't get me wrong, Im not bagging the Modern Defender, just after 7 years of having owned one, Im Entitled to an opinion.;)

After 7 weeks of ownership and only having it for 2, I feel I can say something too. It sure has hit my wallet in a peripheral sense running a business.
Don't get me wrong fellas, I do like the car, I like the camaraderie, history, capability, even a lot of it's makers thinking, but like you say a Defender doesn't make sense in the modern automotive world.
I understand why LR's tend to stick together. I am learning not to mention my cars personality to non LR owners.
But for a strange reason I have not fully come to understand, now I have it back again in the drive all is forgiven, and I look forward to tomorrows drive, and he next, and the next.

[spudboy]

I think a lot of the quality control on a Defender is expected (by Land Rover) to be done by the first owner :angel:

[Scallops]

After 7 weeks of ownership and only having it for 2, I feel I can say something too. It sure has hit my wallet in a peripheral sense running a business.
Don't get me wrong fellas, I do like the car, I like the camaraderie, history, capability, even a lot of it's makers thinking, but like you say a Defender doesn't make sense in the modern automotive world.
I understand why LR's tend to stick together. I am learning not to mention my cars personality to non LR owners.
But for a strange reason I have not fully come to understand, now I have it back again in the drive all is forgiven, and I look forward to tomorrows drive, and he next, and the next.

Great to hear, Jason. :)

[sooly]

Thanks Dullbird,
I'm glad you said that. I have oil being thrown around at the handbrake and thought the prop may have been greased when the rear diff got replaced. Just rang LR dealer and there's a repair to be done. It would be nice if the dealership would give the owners notification of these problems.

[Scouse]

The last I heard, the transfer case leak recall has been suspended.

Make sure your dealer checks the latest version of P019 before you take your car in but if you have a leak anyway, it should be looked at.

[sooly]

Hi Scott. Thanks for that. I spoke to them this morning at 1030 am and he said a fax came out last week for a repair and ordered parts for next week. I'm not sure if this is the same issue as dullbird had or even the same recall but the problem sounds familiar.
Thanks Sooly

[wagoo]

I'm ahead....My Puma doesn't leak anything.... rusty or otherwise. :D
No point in you buying a Lotto ticket anytime soon then, cos you've used up your share of good fortune.
Wagoo.

[BilboBoggles]

In some ways the New Car warranty is a bit of a curse....

The difference between the TD5 and the PUMA I put down to the people working on it. I've had the TD5 since new, and now I take the TD5 to a well known land rover guru, who lives and breathes Land Rovers and knows how to do it right. Everything I've had fixed with him has stayed fixed and exceeds the quality of the original. Things are not just fixed with gaffer tape and glue, they are pulled apart and put back together the way they should be.

With the PUMA, I'm onto my last local dealer, out of the 3 dealers I can access, 2 of them are now on my black list. I'm trying the third for the first time to see if they can fix the problems. Fingers Crossed.

I used to care when I'd take my new Defender in to be serviced and the dealer would return it with dents in the wings. That ****ed me off, but now I don't care. I used to care when they would break 2 things trying to fix 1 thing and did not fix the 1 thing. But after going through the new car hassles with them three times now, enough is enough. This PUMA has been in the work shop 6 months out of the 2 years I've had it. And now looks like it's been hailed on!

Yes - I know the dents are supposed to be there it's a defender right? Well I want to put the damned dents in it, not some useless mechanic who hates his job, and hates working on land rovers.

I hate how every time the PUMA blows smoke in the morning, or stumbles or stutters, I crap my self thinking how much ****ing hassle it's going to be arguing with the dealer and begging them to fix the ****ing thing under warranty and not charge me $10,000 for a new fuel system. The last time that happened - I swear the stress took a year off my life.

If this new dealer falls through then I'll be selling the PUMA and buying a Hyundai iMax, and I'll never buy another new Land Rover again. Ever. The PUMA is my 4th bought land Rover and I think it's going to be my LAST.

( I will however buy a decent County V8, and put a heap of money into building it up, it just won't ever set foot in a dealer.)

[newhue]

let it out brother,

I know from my own posts they are not fun to read, but they do help deal with the reality many Defer owners are experiencing.

Maybe I'm out of line bingeing a new owner, but these cars are hard to own.
They must be the only vehicle on the market that does what it does to it's owners, % wise of sales, but I am guessing.
I didn't really like the sound of having to be an "enthusiast" to own one. In my mind enthusiasts are odd people who put up with heaps because they are strangely attached to something, and in our case mass produced, so they are not even rare.
But it looks like I am becoming one of those enthusiast. In the past weeks I have thought about all sorts of ways to get ride if my Defer, but after that I come to a conclusion what would I buy. And I'm back to square one.
So I think Scollops has hit the nail on the head. If you have dealer who's good well that's great, but otherwise finding a business who's as enthusiastic about Defenders as the owners is a positive step forward.

The LR assist tow truck drivers have a check sheet for damage. A bit like the ones you get with a hire car. Maybe produce your own to the dealer, he signs off whats dints and marks exist, and pays for any new ones.

Hows that for odd.

[BilboBoggles]

Had to "beg" Land Rover assist to come and pick it up. No way am I driving it with oil pouring out everywhere. As a special "once off" favour they took it to the dealer that is also going to do the other warranty work, the last of the three dealers. I ****ing hate how they talk down to you, "As a special favour to you we'll do this extra deal and get it to your dealer".....

Oh I should be so grateful, the bastards are taking it back to fix it....

My next quote will be " As a special favour to you, you can ram the chance of any new Land Rover sales to me for EVER up your arses."

[zuno555]

The poor Aussie dealerships are probably also sick of selling brand new lemons to people, only to see them keep coming back with problem after problem that should not have happened in the first place. They are probably battling head office to get reimbursed for their parts and labour.

They should be hammering land rover australia, in turn hammering who ever is above them.

Anyways, the customer is always right. You are spending tens of thousands on their product. You should also get a courtesy car each time your car is in getting fixed under warranty. Do you? It is an absolute pain to keep asking your wife/husband/friend to follow you to the dealership........

I love the look of the defenders, and would love to buy one. But god after following this forum for a couple of years it seems like they sell 4 lemons to 1 good one.

[ciapek]

let it out brother,

I know from my own posts they are not fun to read, but they do help deal with the reality many Defer owners are experiencing.

Maybe I'm out of line bingeing a new owner, but these cars are hard to own.
They must be the only vehicle on the market that does what it does to it's owners, % wise of sales, but I am guessing.
I didn't really like the sound of having to be an "enthusiast" to own one. In my mind enthusiasts are odd people who put up with heaps because they are strangely attached to something, and in our case mass produced, so they are not even rare.
But it looks like I am becoming one of those enthusiast. In the past weeks I have thought about all sorts of ways to get ride if my Defer, but after that I come to a conclusion what would I buy. And I'm back to square one.
So I think Scollops has hit the nail on the head. If you have dealer who's good well that's great, but otherwise finding a business who's as enthusiastic about Defenders as the owners is a positive step forward.

The LR assist tow truck drivers have a check sheet for damage. A bit like the ones you get with a hire car. Maybe produce your own to the dealer, he signs off whats dints and marks exist, and pays for any new ones.

Hows that for odd.

I hear what you're saying.

I have had some magnificent moments in my interlude with the Defender.:eek:

In the end, it simply did not reflect it's heritage nor it's "near indestructible" credentials. I felt betrayed for my dedication and loyalty.

The rate of component failures, and shortcomings as a vehicle built in todays world, did not in any logical way justify the financial outlay that was necessary to keep this car safe and drivable..

When I traded the car in to the dealers, I wanted to pass on all the reciepts to a potential future owner, so I tried to put them all into the service folder.....they would not fit.....:o

[firsttimedefender]

So my Puma has been leaking rusty water into the foot wells since new, been back to be fixed several times, still leaking, actually now it pours water onto the drivers knee as you go round roundabouts or break, so both passenger and driver get a free wash!. (Although the front passenger gets the free red rust treatment as well.)

This morning the Vacuum pump decided to turn the engine bay, front of bonnet and guards black with engine oil. Also noticed when looking underneath that the transfer case seems a bit oil damp...

Interestingly I greased the prop shafts under my 180,000km TD5 over the weekend and it's bone dry all over under there, and it's not leaking water......

Puma - 40,000k's old....


I have similar issues with water leaks in my 2009 PUMA from day one - the dealer keeps testing with a high pressure spray and seems convinced it comes through the brackets for the 'screen hinges'. The problem actually comes from slow rain (ie when you park the car and it sits in the rain). There is a long seal that runs under the windscreen channel and it leaks from there - the seal is actually a spongey material and seems to absorb water and has very little pressure in its cavity to maintain a seal. The water leaks behind the dash and over the brake pedals, onto knees, etc.
I am currently trying to convince the dealer with some photographic evidence of this. Don't know the cure, but a good silicon seal might be the go.

[wovenrovings]

Just a note for those of you that are having a lot of warranty work done on you PUMA's. I heard the other day that if the item you purchased needs to go back for repairs more that 5 times you are entitled to ask for it to be replaced.
Apparently its a consumer affairs thing and applies to anything new.

Dan.

[stig0000]

I have a tube cut perfict for sealing up defender windows.. works perfict.. i used to put a beed down then try tidy it up.. and we all no wat silicone is like.. so i.cut this tube so its a perfict fit and one beed down and thats it.. looks factory( witch i guess isent hard)

[miky]

Just a note for those of you that are having a lot of warranty work done on you PUMA's. I heard the other day that if the item you purchased needs to go back for repairs more that 5 times you are entitled to ask for it to be replaced.
Apparently its a consumer affairs thing and applies to anything new.

Dan.

So once it's been back 5 times for warranty issues they will give me a new Puma :angel:


.

[solmanic]

So once it's been back 5 times for warranty issues they will give me a new Puma :angel:.

Problem is then you are back at square one. At least after five visits to the dealer under warranty you are part of the way towards having a sorted vehicle.

Maybe they need to make the pre-delivery inspection three months long.

[Dave1]

Your wallet.:wasntme:

[BilboBoggles]

So here's an update.... I think it's fixed! Well no rain inside last night. The new dealer I've taken it too has far exceeded my expectations.

The Service manager took a special interest in this vehicle and worked with the panel shop to make sure they got all of the leaks. The major leak being in the roof seam. The rusty water coming from some metal swarf that was sitting under the dash. I suspect you can tell a decent dealer because they don't put damaged fasteners back, most of the plastic clips and the dash screws had been replaced. Previous dealer couldn't be bothered with that.

But I wanted to close the loop on this thread and let you know that if you find a good dealer, then Defender ownership from new is doable.

[alittlebitconcerned]

Excellant news! Gives me hope.
Who's the dealer?

[BilboBoggles]

My new dealer is ULR in Malvern.

[toad]

Had to "beg" Land Rover assist to come and pick it up. No way am I driving it with oil pouring out everywhere. As a special "once off" favour they took it to the dealer that is also going to do the other warranty work, the last of the three dealers. I ****ing hate how they talk down to you, "As a special favour to you we'll do this extra deal and get it to your dealer".....

Oh I should be so grateful, the bastards are taking it back to fix it....



Ah yes Land Rover assist - when visiting Melb for work one time it went something like this "my gearbox is noisy and needs repair" But sir has it broken down! The ULR service manager then got on the phone and said "Its noisy and could fail at any time, let me do the repair" But sir, it is not broken down!

My word "well you can pick the thing off the side of the road then you (well things went downhill from there but you get the idea)............"

And later that week, 6 km on the NSW side of Orbost 5th gear goes bang, and in my effort to return to town, 4th, 3rd and first also dissapear! Then I get to make the phone call :twisted:.

Well for the cost of a hire car for a few days they got to put me up overnight and then a tilt tray to Bairnsdale who when finding out which dealer worked on the car last refused to work on it. So my car and I got returned to Canberra by tilt tray. The dealer was forced to put a complete new box in. Oh theunoffical cause (from the apprentice who knew my son - the mech doing the job forgot to put a circlip in when they were doing a syncroh change the week before). This was one of six returns on tilt trays that year (that stopped when I stopped using that dealer by the way).

And back on thread - my Defender still leaks after ten years and my wife has a right foot gumboot in the car that she wears when dring in the rain, its so simple a fix, and cheap too!

[Didge]

You guys have just convinced me to hold onto my 96 300TDi 110 Def and spend the money fixing the leaks myself. Other than that, I've got the usual rust in the bottom of the doors and passenger footwell and slow acceleration and that's about it. I think I'm blessed. I just couldn't bear parting with over $50K for a car that leaks and has such reliability issues. LR should be ashamed to keep producing an icon with such basic faults, especially given their loyal following.

[alittlebitconcerned]

My new dealer is ULR in Malvern.
Cheers and dammit.

[alittlebitconcerned]

You guys have just convinced me to hold onto my 96 300TDi 110 Def and spend the money fixing the leaks myself. Other than that, I've got the usual rust in the bottom of the doors and passenger footwell and slow acceleration and that's about it. I think I'm blessed. I just couldn't bear parting with over $50K for a car that leaks and has such reliability issues. LR should be ashamed to keep producing an icon with such basic faults, especially given their loyal following.

I agree, stick to the devil you know and you'll probably be happier.
LR should be ashamed of the troubles they've had with defenders but they're not; they simply don't care. If they did they would not consistently be near the bottom of customer satisfaction surveys the world over year after year.

[Caboose]

I thought I should post some pics of the front firewall-gutter leak fix just in case anyone else is looking for the same fix from their dealer...

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/solmanic42/IMG_0028-1.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/solmanic42/IMG_0027.jpg

http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh191/solmanic42/IMG_0026.jpg

It's not pretty, but it seems to have worked.
Hi Solmanic, my right shoe gets soaked going around a left-hand turn after a heavy downpour. I have replaced the vent seals so I'm assuming I have a leak in the front firewall. I'm keen to investigate this issue further - any chance of re-posting the pics?

[alittlebitconcerned]

I sent mine in because it had water coming in the top right corner near the windscreen as well as water somehow getting in the rear footwell.

After it was done it came back with leaks still in the top right corner, and now also in the top left corner, both alpine windows, under the dash in front of the gear stick, both front door hinges, from the windscreen, through a series of bolts to the left and right of the dash, and I've still got water in the rear footwell.

[tuffrangie]

My new dealer is ULR in Malvern.

I had my broken front diff fixed by them and got my trustworthy mechanic to do a service and oil change and explore a clunk/grind in the drivetrain and he found metal in the front diff from the intial breakage. They replaced the crown wheel and pinion but didn't flush or clean the housing so my 'brand new diff' has been grinding up bits of my old diff for a thousand km or so. Won't be going back there. I am trying Doncaster for the handbrake recall fix.

Rob