Ideas and suggestions on my P38 please!

[Keithy P38]

Hello everyone!

I'll cut to the chase here! I had two P38's inspected over the last week or so, and both need work (both are shiny examples too). So rather than forking out $15k odd for another P38 and spending another $5k on repairs, I think it's going to be cheaper to buy mine back and repair it. This is where you guys come in! Has anyone purchased a drowned P38 before or done it to theirs and repaired it? What is the experience like now (still the same car or has it got the grumps)?

This is what mine needs in my opinion...

- Buggered valves in both heads. Most likely need them reco'd. It doesnt seem like the pistons are injured, but worst case scenario, what's a rebuild on a 4.6 go for these days (including labour)? Couldnt be more than $5k??

- My Faultmate MSV2 won't communicate to the Motronic ECU or the Gearbox ECU... I'm assuming that at the time I last tried (after drowning) the connectors might still be wet as it was only the BeCM that I dried out, not realising that there are in fact more ECU's under the passenger seat! Worst case scenario here, how much to replace each? The car does run and drive, just not very well!

- Wheel bearings... I've heard that on P38's they are non-greaseable? How much of a mission is it to replace these in a well stocked garage? I have plenty of tools, but no precision tools.

And has anyone got any other ideas or wish to tell me i'm an idiot for buying a drowned car back from the insurance company? I'm trying to figure out if it's worth it or not...

All suggestions welcomed!

Cheers
Keithy

[DT-P38]

Hey Keithy,

Not sure on the specific mechanical/electrical issues, but no doubt others will be and will give you feedback.... I reckon it could be a good direction to head in though. It seems to me that with these babies its very comforting to know their history, whats been done and whats needed.

I remember theorising a little while ago about Aussie's (cooked) P38 that it was a really good starting point for P38 ownership... spend your money wisely and you could end up with a top hatted, supercharged HRA'd jeckell and hyde monster for about the same money as say 5 years into one you don't know.

Do your sums and focus on what you are going to end up with and be sure to compare that with the new buy price plus say $3-4K for the likely first 5 years repair/refresh items. I would bet you will be in front $ wise and god knows how far in front mentally!!!

Hoo Roo, Dave and the 'pretty pig'

[PaulP38a]

Hi Keithy... a few bits to consider in addition to our offline chat.

You know your Rangie better than anyone else, and will have a "gut feel" if it is worth fixing. Things to think about:


are you ever going to trust it again, knowing that she's been submarining? Every time you hear an odd noise, will you wonder if that was water damage in the diffs/bearings/tranny/electrical component?
will you be forever comparing your new/replacement Rangie with the old girl? I still do, and it's been 2 years since I lost my black beauty to the river :(
if you get $10-15k insurance payout and can pick up the old girl for less than $5k, I think you'll be in front financially and emotionally.
also depends on your emotional attachment to the old one. Were you thinking about replacing it anyway? If so, get another one and start clean. If not, buy it back and fix her up.

I'm leaning towards buying back (if the price is right) and fixing (if you have a good idea of what is wrong).

Rather than reco-ing the heads, get new/reco'd ones. If you don't already have someone in mind, I might know a guy ;)

EAT, EAS and TC ECU's are under the passenger seat from memory. Depending on water depth, it might have affected the SRS ECU at the rear of the centre console. Your MSV-2 will tell you which ones are offline. Surprised that your engine management ECU is out of action? Maybe check the fuses and relays too.

Shop around for replacement ECU's if you suspect yours are fried. Send Andy and I a shopping list and we'll see what we can find.

Cats, muffler, door speakers and anything else below the water line should be treated as suspect. Although you did say it was fresh water so they may well be ok after drying out.

Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

Thanks Dave and Paul!

I am pretty attached to the car - as you say Paul, I know it well and certainly wasn't planning on replacing it! I am addicted to it!

I checked the RR.net forum for advice as well, nobody has successfully drowned a P38 and revived the car... They've drowned them but the threads end without a final verdict!

I had quite a shopping list and I think I can buy it back for really cheap, but the main thing that worries me is how the ECU's will go after being wet and possibly fried! I can't see the repair costs exceeding $6k...

The water was level with the seats (i.e. where the leather that your bum sits on is)! And the SRS is registering a fault too. The car has not seen a garage for over 2 weeks now, hopefully the hot north queensland weather has done it some good, but I need to buy it back to find out if it has dried out properly! I went to the auction yard a few days ago and it doesnt smell like creek anymore, smells just like the day I bought it!

I just need that peace of mind from someone who's done it before and lived to tell the tale! Where's ralphy when you need him :-p Although the water was clear, it was also much higher in mine!

My shopping list might consist of ECU's if anything, the EAS still works perfectly, all electrics except the radio and speakers are fine! Even the HEVAC is ok (despite it's wetness), after running the car for half an hour it must have dried some of the electrics out!

Decisions....

Cheers
Keithy

[Fish78]

If you buy the wet one back, a plus would be the opportunity to build it from the ground up, the way you want it.

The negative would be a big chunk of time/effort and some money, with the pay-off that in the end you would know your P38 inside out and probably have supreme confidence in it, because you built it.

But, with water who knows, my vote, i'd probably rebuild just for the satisfaction.

[Keithy P38]

I agree with you there! It's a big IF...

I think rebuilding it would be the cheapest option too! I'm looking at around $15k to replace it with another standard HSE of the same vintage! If I come out on-top by fixing mine i'd be rather happy!

[mike 90 RR]

My thoughts are that you are playing with fire ....

Your basic costs would be so far ...
5k = Car
5k = motor

Thats 10k spent ... and you still have to take a chance on all the electrics
Computers / seats / Diffs / gearbox / dash / ect



I'ld suggest to source a suitable Donor car and have it parked up at home ...
Something that has a good drivetrain, but has been rolled or rear ended

At least this will give you some control over how much your gonna spend in parts .... rather than trying to buy individual bits and pieces .... Once you have ripped out all the necessary pieces, Then sell the remainder of the donor car to recoup some costs



Cheers
Mike

[isuzurover]

My thoughts are that you are playing with fire ....

Your basic costs would be so far ...
5k = Car
5k = motor

Thats 10k spent ... and you still have to take a chance on all the electrics
Computers / seats / Diffs / gearbox / dash / ect



I'ld suggest to source a suitable Donor car and have it parked up at home ...
Something that has a good drivetrain, but has been rolled or rear ended

At least this will give you some control over how much your gonna spend in parts .... rather than trying to buy individual bits and pieces .... Once you have ripped out all the necessary pieces, Then sell the remainder of the donor car to recoup some costs



Cheers
Mike

I agree with Mike. You might spend years chasing electrical gremlins after a drowning. If it were me I would buy yours back, buy a good replacement. Swap all the good bits over from yours to the new one, then sell off the remaining parts.

[Keithy P38]

If that were the case i'd probably be better off not even touching mine! The airbags and whole EAS setup is pretty brand spankers in mine, the wheels are unmarked and as is the interior! Other than that, I don't need spare wipers, etc! Main things I want are those!

That said, all the electrics bar the stereo still work (including seats/windows/tailgate). My problems are computer and engine related! Both diffs were full of water (until I changed the oil).

Its so hard to make a decision!!

[mike 90 RR]

Its so hard to make a decision!!

and it's not 1 to take lightly either

If you can get the car back for 2k ... great ... But at 5k ... That's a lot of doe for a drowned write off with a busted motor


Appoligies for being a downer ... :(



I'ld go Bens way

[Keithy P38]

I understand why though! And it's my coin at the end of the day, i've gotta decide!

If i get the car back for a grand i'll work on fixing it, if it's gonna cost me any more i'll pass and get another P38...

I'm quite confident that it's fixable!

[Grumbles]

If i get the car back for a grand i'll work on fixing it, if it's gonna cost me any more i'll pass and get another P38...


I think a grand is the top price to pay for it if you go down the rebuild road.

It is odd that you post this now. I was chatting to my specialist Landy mechanic a few weeks back about this exact thing. ie drowned P38s. His opinion was to leave them alone. Too many dollars up front and then there is the ongoing 'unreliability and lack of confidence' factor in the car.

What ever you do I wish you well. :D

[Keithy P38]

I still have 3 P38's in Australia that i'm looking at buying, if they check out alright and the price can be dropped a tad I will most likely get one of them.

I'll still buy mine back if I can get it for cheap! The wheels and EAS gear alone will be worth it! I can sell everything else to the LR wreckers at home and maybe recoup some costs!

Thanks for your post Grumbles!

[glenhendry]

Do you have the TIME? That is the question, sounds like the consensus on money is pretty similar. Do you have a wife and kids that will get cranky of you being in the garage after 3 months? Thats what I would be thinking about...

Good luck.

[Scouse]

I doubt the valves/heads are going to be the cause of a misfire after drowning.

When an engine hydraulics, both valves are closed. The part that gives way is the conrod. Don't ask me how I know :(.

Valve/head damage occurs when there's a timing failure & the valve hits the piston.

[mike 90 RR]

and another surprise package is that if a small (tiny) amount of water got into the Auto gearbox ...
.... & if memory serves me right ....


you can Kiss the clutch packs goodbye ;)


Mike

[Scouse]

Here's a nice Range Rover that seems unusually close to your location:

http://www.manheimfowles.com.au/members/power_search/?unit_key=137989_AU412996514-137989;detail_tab=vinfo;fulltext=land%20rover;incl ude_salvage=;salvage_only=1;state_all=1;model_all= 1;rm=view_detail

;);)

[PaulP38a]

Here's a nice Range Rover that seems unusually close to your location:

http://www.manheimfowles.com.au/members/power_search/?unit_key=137989_AU412996514-137989;detail_tab=vinfo;fulltext=land%20rover;incl ude_salvage=;salvage_only=1;state_all=1;model_all= 1;rm=view_detail

;);)

or for those without a logon to MF, try https://www.manheimfowles.com.au/find_buy/power_search/?unit_key=137989_AU412996514-137989;detail_tab=vinfo;fulltext=range%20rover;inc lude_salvage=1;salvage_only=;state_all=1;model_all =1;rm=view_detail

Don't tell Andy or he'll be on a plane... Bundalene's place is looking like a LR sales yard ;)

Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

Yep, that's mine!! I was sneaky and put my old blinkers on instead of getting rid of my good looking clear ones!

I might go along to that auction on Thursday and see if i can pick up a cheap Range Rover for spare parts :-p

[Razza's Rangie]

Hey Keithy!
hmmm what a dilema, ok a bit of a background, I did a rebuild on my 4.6 in my single car garage with some basic tools, and just hired things like engine cranes, got out of it with about 5k with new motor.

All those electrical things its up to you, but its do-able.

Mate im in mackay at the moment, turned up here for work and they said they dont want me till jan11 so i was thinking about maybe heading back up to cairns next week, would be great to catch up on my way through?

or give me a call 0422 616 212
RAZ