great british railroads

[bob10]

G'day, saw a really good show on tv., called Britains greatest Railways, about George Stevenson and the first railway between Manchester and Liverpool. What a smart fellow he was! Had to design the very first railway station [ think about it, no-one had seen anything like it before ], had to work out a way to get the railway over swampy peat bogs [ used a process similar to the Romans when they shifted their troops around] It must have been like living in the beginning of the dot com revolution , a whole new experience. If ever mary, my wife and I ,get to go to England, we will certainly check out the railway museum in Manchester. Bob

[drivesafe]

Hi Bob, it’s not a bad series and I hope there is more episodes to come.

If I ever get to the UK, the first place I’m heading to is the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway

[p38arover]

'Twas on Foxtel tonight. I had better look up the Foxtel guide and prgram the IQ box to record it (if it is repeated).

[windsock]

My (great x 3) grandfather was Murdoch Paterson (http://www.scottisharchitects.org.uk/architect_full.php?id=202954), Chief Engineer for Highland Rail between 1863-1898. He had virtually completed one of his most well known works when he died. The Nairn Viaduct (http://canmore.rcahms.gov.uk/en/site/14272/details/clava+nairn+viaduct/). His workers wheeled him across on a barrow soon after the last arch was complete and prior to the rails being laid. He died a short period after.

I was sent over there for a software course a few years back and had a nine day period I could go and seek out many of his places. Many good moments...

Quite amazing what they could do with blocks of stone...

Would be good if the programme goes into scotland.

[Lostkiwi]

Hi Bob, it’s not a bad series and I hope there is more episodes to come.

If I ever get to the UK, the first place I’m heading to is the Romney, Hythe and Dymchurch Railway


I also hope that there are more episodes. There is so much more that can be added
I have been lucky enough to have had the chance to visit a few of the places that were shown. Would love to go back and see more one day.

" Bring on more please"

[p38arover]

I checked the TV guide for the next 14 days. Nothing indicated. Last night had several strung together. I knew I shouldn't have let my wife take over the TV. :mad:

:D

[isuzutoo-eh]

Railroads? NOooooO! The country that invented them call them Railways


/pedantic mode off

[Bigbjorn]

Railroads? NOooooO! The country that invented them call them Railways


/pedantic mode off

The German, Danish, and Italian words translate as iron road. The French as iron path.

[drivesafe]

Railroad tracks.
The US standard railroad gauge (distance between the rails) is 4 feet, 8.5 inches. That's an exceedingly odd number.


Why was that gauge used? Because that's the way they built them in England , and English expatriates designed the US railroads.


Why did the English build them like that? Because the first rail lines were built by the same people who built the pre-railroad tramways, and that's the gauge they used.


Why did 'they' use that gauge then? Because the people who built the tramways used the same jigs and tools that they had used for building wagons, which used that wheel spacing.


Why did the wagons have that particular odd wheel spacing? Well, if they tried to use any other spacing, the wagon wheels would break on some of the old, long distance roads in England , because that's the spacing of the wheel ruts.


So who built those old rutted roads? Imperial Rome built the first long distance roads in Europe (including England ) for their legions. Those roads have been used ever since.


And the ruts in the roads? Roman war chariots formed the initial ruts, which everyone else had to match for fear of destroying their wagon wheels.

Since the chariots were made for Imperial Rome , they were all alike in the matter of wheel spacing. Therefore the United States standard railroad gauge of 4 feet, 8.5 inches is derived from the original specifications for an Imperial Roman war chariot. Bureaucracies live forever.


So the next time you are handed a specification/procedure/process and wonder 'What horse's ass came up with this?' , you may be exactly right. Imperial Roman army chariots were made just wide enough to accommodate the rear ends of two war horses. (Two horses' asses.)

Now, the twist to the story:
When you see a Space Shuttle sitting on its launch pad, there are two big booster rockets attached to the sides of the main fuel tank. These are solid rocket boosters, or SRBs. The SRBs are made by Thiokol at their factory in Utah

The engineers who designed the SRBs would have preferred to make them a bit fatter, but the SRBs had to be shipped by train from the factory to the launch site. The railroad line from the factory happens to run through a tunnel in the mountains, and the SRBs had to fit through that tunnel. The tunnel is slightly wider than the railroad track, and the railroad track, as you now know, is about as wide as two horses' behinds.


So, a major Space Shuttle design feature of what is arguably the world's most advanced transportation system was determined over two thousand years ago by the width of a horse's ass. And you thought being a horse's ass wasn't important?

COMPLIMENTS OF RON, a.k.a. p38arover.

[Homestar]

Thanks for that Drivesafe - we were only having that very discussion at work the other week, and we all were stumped on where this measurement came from. :BigThumb:

Cheers - Gav.

[drivesafe]

Thanks for that Drivesafe - we were only having that very discussion at work the other week, and we all were stumped on where this measurement came from. :BigThumb:

Cheers - Gav.

Hi Gav, you can thank Ron and I have just edited my post to that effect.

Cheers.

[3-Gees]

And up here in the so called "Smart State",we're still playing toy trains with 3'6":mad:,but don't start me on that:D
....Gregg:)

[Bigbjorn]

And up here in the so called "Smart State",we're still playing toy trains with 3'6":mad:,but don't start me on that:D
....Gregg:)

And it is the biggest and most successful rail system in Australia by a country mile. Get a copy of "Triumph of the Narrow Gauge" from your library.

Almost runs more track than the all the rest of the country combined.

First out of steam. First air-conditioned trains. Only main line electric system in Oz, and so on.

[drivesafe]

And up here in the so called "Smart State",we're still playing toy trains with 3'6":mad:,but don't start me on that:D
....Gregg:)

Hi Gregg, I spent my entire railway working life on NSW’s Standard Gauge and only since moving up to QLD and taking some time to look at the QR, I have to be honest and say I think the QR is by far, more interesting than NSW or Vic railways.

[Disco44]

And up here in the so called "Smart State",we're still playing toy trains with 3'6":mad:,but don't start me on that:D
....Gregg:)

Be very interesting to know what you have against standard gauge. Fell free to let us in on your views.
John.

[V8Ian]

Be very interesting to know what you have against standard gauge. Fell free to let us in on your views.
John.
:confused::confused::confused: 4' 8 1/2" is standard gauge.

[Disco44]

:confused::confused::confused: 4' 8 1/2" is standard gauge.

Sorry meant 3'6' gauge,bit late at night I think.

[RoverP6B]

Brian Hjelm wrote,...
And it is the biggest and most successful rail system in Australia by a country mile. Get a copy of "Triumph of the Narrow Gauge" from your library.

Almost runs more track than the all the rest of the country combined.

First out of steam. First air-conditioned trains. Only main line electric system in Oz, and so on.

Spot on Brian!

QR would run rings around every other system, and up until silly Anna Bligh and her even sillier Treasurer floated QR National...the freight side of QR, it was a wholly owned and operated Government system.

ARG (Australian Railway Group) which runs freight trains in SA and WA is now a wholly owned subsidary of QR. The narrow gauge system now runs trains in every state, interstate and intrastate. What an achievement. More passenger trains per head of population in QLD than any other state, tilt trains both diesel and electric, the latter is the fastest narrow gauge train in the world, and of course coal trains..massive coal trains. In the Hunter Valley here in NSW, QR runs arguably the largest locomotives in terms of size, mass and power to be seen anywhere outside of the Iron Ore railways of the Pilbra in WA.

Ron.

[isuzutoo-eh]

It may be QR today that hold the top spot, but at the outbreak of World War 2, the only rail system in Australia that could cope with the increased traffic/ladings was the South Australian Railways. Commissioner Webb brought a run down shambolic system plagued with conservatism since the start far beyond the other state systems.

[3-Gees]

Hi all ,I've tried to post a detailed reply as to my aversion to narrow guage (not QR as a company) twice and both times it said I was not logged on,which I was:o,anyway ,the USA and great Brittian unified their guages more than 100 years ago ,and for good reason.Cheers Gregg.

[drivesafe]

Hi all ,I've tried to post a detailed reply as to my aversion to narrow guage (not QR as a company) twice and both times it said I was not logged on,which I was

Hi 3-Gees, I use to have that problem.

If you type for too long the site locks you out.

I’m a one finger typer so time is a problem but what I do is write it up in a word processor and cut and paste.

[3-Gees]

Thanks Drivesafe,thought it was my lousy computer skills:),or a anti raving setting!!,probably just as well,as it's a strong passion of mine to see this country with a modern and efficient NATIONAL rail system that would make our roads safer and create more susstainable employment,
Cheers Gregg:)

[Disco44]

That has been a passion of many folk for decades past but it has never eventuated.In the Menzies era the opportunity was there with federal funding but some little men with personal state interests and for the want of a better term railroaded it.Those egotists are now dead and gone and Australia lost that golden opportunity. IMHO Queensland lost a great chance to rectify part of the problem when ,as it was straightening the line for it's latest speedier trains they did not have the foresight to change the coastal lines to the standard gauge.The rest could have been changed at another time.I see that one new line that Gina Reinardts new mine will be built by her company and use the standard gauge. Ironic isn't it?

[Bigbjorn]

It does not make economic sense to change to 4' 8 1/2" gauge. There is more 3' 6" in Australia than standard or wide gauge. It would be cheaper to change those to 3' 6
" gauge. QR has almost as much track as the rest of Australia combined.

[isuzutoo-eh]

There's more narrow gauge in the world than standard gauge or so I believe :D

Hell in Australia we have/had 15", 18", 20", 21", 600mm, 2', 2'6, 3', 3'6, 3'8, metre, 4' gauges for working (ie not tourist ala RH&D/Ratty) railways and probably a bunch more I can't remember!

[Disco44]

The line from Brisbane /Sydney/Melbourne/Adelaide/Port Augusta/Darwin/Perth and various mining lines in WA are standard gauge.WestOz regional lines are 3'6".All 3'6" gauge in SA are not now used and the main gauge is Standard.The proposed fast freight rail from Melbourne/Brisbane will be standard gauge.Then of course the Irish gauge ( 5'3") is still in use in Vic.
Funny thing the man who built the first line in Queensland (Ipswich/Bigges Camp) in 1865 was an Irishman and he chose 3'6". Something to do with the new state not having enough in the treasury historical chronicles tell us.

[isuzutoo-eh]

Australia was intended to have the Irish Broad Gauge if everything went to original plan. NSW and Vic agreed to go with the same gauge (5'3), Vic ordered their equipment and set about laying rails. In the mean time NSW changed chief engineer to someone schooled in standard gauge, and promptly changed all NSW's orders to that gauge. Vic's gear was already on the boat so it wasn't deemed practical to convert.

So the state that started with standard gauge is the state that's most to blame for the break of gauge.

Having said that, as Disco44 related, QLD weren't going to play ball anyway as they couldn't afford the outlay for standard gauge never mind broad, and made the most sensible decision in regards gauge IMHO.