D3/4 as a caravan tug: How good?

[Grumndriva]

My D2 has been a great tug for our 2.7 tonne dirt road van, but is at the stage where we probably need to replace it.

My heart says a D4, but my head says an LC200.

If a D4, my preference would be for the SE for the extra torque and upgraded transmission, but the 19 inch wheels are a serious consideration, bearing in mind that we spend a lot of time on rocky outback roads and tracks. Consequently the 2.7 may be preferable to get the smaller wheels. (I am aware of the plan to try to get 18 inch wheels made for the SE, but they are not available now)

Is there anyone on the forum with substantial towing experience with a heavy van (say over 2.5 tonnes) with either a D3 or D4? If so I would appreciate your views on:

1. weight of van and whether full height or pop-top

2. whether 2.7 or 3.0 engine

3. towing speed and fuel consumption while towing

4. whether you have ever had problems with 19 inch wheels/tyres on rocky roads or pot holes

5. what type of hitch you are using

6. whether or not you use a WDH

7. what type of brake controller are you using and where did you put it

8. where did you put your breakaway brake battery monitor

9. do you have an auxiliary battery fitted and if so where

Any other comment on your satisfaction or otherwise with your vehicle as a tug and with LRA after sales support including warranty.

I know it is a lot to ask but it is a big decision at my time of life (it will probably be the last car I own) and pulling a full size 2.7 tonne van is a big ask of any passenger vehicle. I would value the advice of anyone who has gone this route before. Thanks.

[GeorgeK]

Hi Grumndriva,

I took delivery of a D4 3.0 lit HSE in Jun 10 and a ROMA full size caravan in late Aug 10.
In answer to your questions and using your numbering I provide the following answers:
1. Full height caravan (24'6" external) Weight about 2.5 tonne unladen and 3.2ish tonne fully loaded.
2. The D4 has a 3.0lit diesel engine.
3. I tow at about 90-95kph. Fuel consumption is anywhere between 15-19lit/100km. It depends on road and weather conditions e.g. headwind or cross winds etc.
4. I bought the D4 essentially for a towing vehicle. If I was to properly analyse where I would be realistically towing the van I would say that about 90% of the time will be on bitumen roads while only 10% will be on gravel. It is simply not practical to tow a large van like mine 'off-road'. I have not had any problems with the 19" wheels on rocky roads or pot holes as I drive to the prevailing road conditions and let the air pressure down when required. I am a conservative driver. (I also have 2 spares!)
5. I use a standard LR D4 hitch. The tongue on which the tow bar sits has been turned uside-down thereby raising the hitch. Even so it does sit low and the caravan drawbar was made to allow for it. I prefer using original equipment wherever possible to take advantage of manufacturers warranties, if necessary.
6. LR says do not use a WDH with air suspension. I agree and I have not had any problems at all. Indeed I have heard of horror stories where WDH were used with air suspension. Not good.
7. I use a Tekonsha P3 brake controller and it is located on the lower dash under and to the left of the steering wheel. It works well.
8. I don't have a breakaway battery monitor mounted in the car. I do have one mounted near the fuses in the boot of the van. I test the breakaway monitor daily when towing.
9. I do have an aux battery fitted to the D4 and it is located in front of the existing battery. It was fitted by the LR dealer and, again, it is covered by the dealer warranty etc. The fitting (labour and parts) was very expensive but IMHO worth it.
I am a member of the Australian Caravan Club (ACC) and have attend many National Musters. I researched my caravan and tug purchase extensively and I can say that I am very happy with my choices. Since taking delivery of the car and van I have travelled about 4500km with the combination and I am delighted with the performance of both. Yes it was expensive but I have just retired from a very stressful job and I realise that you only live once. So go for it I say. I intend to live in the van with my wife and travel this great land for the next 3 - 4 years. Why do it rough when you can do it in comfort.
There are additional considerations such as reversing cameras (van and car), bullbars, long range fuel tanks etc. Happy to talk further.
I hope this response helps and if you want any more info please use the forum or PM me.

Cheers

George

[Neil P]

My heart says a D4, but my head says an LC200.



You can do alot of fly-drive for a 100 Grand , and see more
interesting parts of the world.

[BigJon]

My heart says a D4, but my head says an LC200.



Better get your head checked! :p

D4 is vastly superior to LC200.

[sniegy]

Grumndriva,
Take note of all the ex Cruiser drivers on this forum who have come across & purchased a D4 because of their dislike of the new cruiser for whatever reason.
I also had a friend who has a 200series & he is not overly satisfied with it either.
Good luck in your choice, but agree with BigJon, the D4 is a much superior vehicle.

Cheers

[Grumndriva]

You can do alot of fly-drive for a 100 Grand , and see more
interesting parts of the world.

Thanks Neil, You are right of course, but I spent a lot of my career flying and I don't particularly want to do that any more. I want more time on the ground in some of the more remote areas I used to work in but never had time to really enjoy. The van gives me that option, but I have worked my D2's heart out towing it, and I think it is time for a new one.

[Grumndriva]

Hi Grumndriva,

7. I use a Tekonsha P3 brake controller and it is located on the lower dash under and to the left of the steering wheel. It works well.
9. I do have an aux battery fitted to the D4 and it is located in front of the existing battery. It was fitted by the LR dealer and, again, it is covered by the dealer warranty etc. The fitting (labour and parts) was very expensive but IMHO worth it.

Cheers

George

Hi George,


Thank you for the very detailed response. I use a Prodigy which is not that much different from the P3, and will probably keep it. Any chance of a photo of your mounting?
Secondly, can you tell me roughly what the aux battery cost including fitting? I would like to have an approx cost before I talk with the local dealer in the next couple of days. Did they also run a heavy wire to the back for the fridge, or did they just connect it to the existing rear power outlet, and if the latter, is that system adequate? Thanks again for the response.

Cheers,

Terry

[Grumndriva]

Big Jon and Sniegy,

Thank you for your responses. Can you be more specific with the problems you are seeing with the LC200? In my travels I am constantly running into happy LC200 drivers who claim they would never go back to LR for towing, and I see comparatively very few passenger vehicle tugs other than LC on serious vans. Many LC owners do say that the 100 series was better than the LC200 though. The only complaints I have ever hear about the LC200 are excessive fuel and oil consumption, so would be interested in what you have heard or seen. As I said, my heart says D4, despite some features which seriously detract from it for serious touring.

[Disco4SE]

Hi Grumndriva,
I too had to make the same choice in April last year (which is in one of my previous posts), however it was between the Disco 3 2.7Lt Diesel and the LC200 Diesel. The D4 was not out, back then.
My vehicle at the time was a LC 100 Turbo Diesel. The one before that was an 80 Series.
I was fortunate enough to have both vehicles (demos) at the same time for a whole weekend. Both had tow bars, so I was able to tow my boat, trailers etc.
I found the D3 quicker to 100Kph with my 2 Ton boat, but the LC was better on the hills. The D3 still maintained speed, but changed down a gear on the same hill that the LC held.
By the end of the weekend, I found myself wanting to drive the D3 whenever I wanted to go anywhere.
Now having said all this, I sold the D3 in December last year and purchased a D4 3.0Lt Diesel. This vehicle is so much better in so many ways than the D3. Although I haven't had the same opportunity to compare it with the LC200, I could honestly say that the D4 would eat the LC both on power & torque. The torque from the 3.0Lt is amazing.
With 1200Klm's on the clock last Christmas, I towed my boat and all my gear (inc wife and 3 kids) up the Hume from the Mornington Peninsula to Albury. The Disco held overdrive gear all the way. Didn't change down on any hill.
I am more than happy with my decision and have no regrets what so ever.
Cheers, Craig

[Grumndriva]

Hi Grumndriva,
I am more than happy with my decision and have no regrets what so ever.
Cheers, Craig

Thanks Craig. Have you been off the bitumen while towing, and had any issues due to the 19 inch tyres?

[GeorgeK]

Hi George,


Thank you for the very detailed response. I use a Prodigy which is not that much different from the P3, and will probably keep it. Any chance of a photo of your mounting?
Secondly, can you tell me roughly what the aux battery cost including fitting? I would like to have an approx cost before I talk with the local dealer in the next couple of days. Did they also run a heavy wire to the back for the fridge, or did they just connect it to the existing rear power outlet, and if the latter, is that system adequate? Thanks again for the response.

Cheers,

Terry

Hi Terry,

I will get a photo of the brake controller fitting posted tomorrow if I can.

I can't give you a precise figure for the aux battery and fitting as it was wrapped up with some other stuff e.g getting a UHF radio and mic fitted as well. The radio and mic fitting required the removal of most of the dashboard as I wanted it all fitted without screwing of a mounting bracket. I would expect to pay from a LR dealer about $1500 for the aux battery and fitting. (It ain't cheap!!!) I have an ARB fridge and it is powered via a specially fitted, wired and dedicated merit plug. My dealer also replaced the wire to the existing power outlet in the rear.
Like you this is my last car purchase so I am trying to get all the things on it I need now.
Cheers
George

[robbotd5]

Thanks Neil, You are right of course, but I spent a lot of my career flying and I don't particularly want to do that any more. I want more time on the ground in some of the more remote areas I used to work in but never had time to really enjoy. The van gives me that option, but I have worked my D2's heart out towing it, and I think it is time for a new one.
Go the mighty D2!!!!! Ohhh ok, I'd love a D4!!! We are ordering a 21 ft ensuit Retreat Daydream family van in January. Can't wait to join the caravan lifestyle.
Regards Robbo.

[Disco4SE]

Thanks Craig. Have you been off the bitumen while towing, and had any issues due to the 19 inch tyres?
No, I haven't been off road towing as yet.
I did change tyres to Pirelli ATR's 8,500Klm's ago. They are much better than the originals on road and suprisingly good off road.
Cheers, Craig

[Brick]

Grumndriva,

I had a D4 HSE and recently completed 8000kms in 6 weeks in the great north west. This included part of the Gibbs River Rd and other rough dirt roads. We were towing a new Retreat Daydream van with a few mods for off road travel. The van was around 2.6 tone unloaded. We have 3 water tanks, a generator, 4 bikes, 2 spare wheels, full annex, etc loaded in the van besides our food, fishing gear and personal belongings. Not light by any stretch of the imagination.

The only mod to the D4 was Goodyear MTRs, the electric brake controller (P3) and aMitchell Bros hitch. We finished the trip with the LR not missing a beat.

We had a variety of mileage achieved. Usually was around the 18l/100km but between Pt Hedland Broome this went up to 22 as we were bashing into screaming a headwind. We usually sat on around 100km/h and the D4 did not have problem holding this. It is also remarkably quick off the line even with the van on.

All in all I reason we have a great combination travel setup. So much so we are off again at Christmas for a couple of weeks.

Robbotd5 - drop me a PM some time and I will share some learnings from our Retreat with you. Nothing a show stopper, but probably some things came out in the warranty period that most people wouldn't see because we did such a long trip.

Cheers

[Grumndriva]

Hi Brick,

Thank you very much for that. Given that that particular area is not exactly crowded with service stations, or wasn't the last time I was there, am I correct in assuming that you have a long range tank and spare carrier fitted? If so, which ones did you go for?

Secondly, why did you choose the Mitch Hitch?

Thirdly did you have any tyre problems or get any rim damage on the trip?

[Grumndriva]

Go the mighty D2!!!!! Ohhh ok, I'd love a D4!!! We are ordering a 21 ft ensuit Retreat Daydream family van in January. Can't wait to join the caravan lifestyle.
Regards Robbo.

Hi Robbo,

Hope you get to join us soon. It is a lot of fun, and so much more convenient than motelling or camping. You get the best of both worlds with a well set up van, but it does put a lot of stress on the vehicle.

[theresanothersteve]

We've just set the D3 up with the prodigy brake control unit from the old D1 so the wife can drag Dobbin around.

We are both tall people and found mounting the barke unit on the panel adjacent the steering wheel interfered with our knees. Ended up mounting it in the space between the 2 cigarette lighters.

31571

The application lever is still accessible and it is a neat installation.

[roamer]

We've just set the D3 up with the prodigy brake control unit from the old D1 so the wife can drag Dobbin around.

We are both tall people and found mounting the barke unit on the panel adjacent the steering wheel interfered with our knees. Ended up mounting it in the space between the 2 cigarette lighters.

31571

The application lever is still accessible and it is a neat installation.

That part of the dash is completely different in the D4, TR and EAS switches are there.

[Graeme]

I am aware of the plan to try to get 18 inch wheels made for the SE, but they are not available now
I have 6 ordered and due to arrive in Oz at the end of January which I hope not to want.

[Brick]

Hi Brick,

Thank you very much for that. Given that that particular area is not exactly crowded with service stations, or wasn't the last time I was there, am I correct in assuming that you have a long range tank and spare carrier fitted? If so, which ones did you go for?

Secondly, why did you choose the Mitch Hitch?

Thirdly did you have any tyre problems or get any rim damage on the trip?

Grumndriva,

No LR tank or wheel carrier as yet. LR tank goes in next week. Carried a jerry can for backup. Was getting around 400kms pre tank. Just made sure I filled up each time I passed a roadhouse. Also fitting a roof rack as I have 2 spares. Had a wheel carrier on previous D3 (and other fourbies) but got sick of having to open it all the time when you want to throw something in. As I have never had to use a spare (other than rotating wheels every 9 months or so) I don't think I will be lifting them up and down too often.

Had the Mitch Hitch on my D3 so got it modified for the D4. The van sits very level with the flat towing tongue rather than having one that you have to turn over to get to the right height. Fitted the hitch to the D3 as the OEM one sat way too low.

Only issue I had with rims/tyres was clearance between the brake caliper and the rim. On gravel roads stones got caught between and has scored the rims behind the spokes (see seprate thread). The MTRs performed very well, including on the beach.

Cheers

[Grumndriva]

After lots of help from this forum and from TRS in Adelaide, I have decided to keep my D2. In the end, there were just too many mods that had to be done to make the D4 suitable for what I wanted to do, and the cost just blew out. We may still go the D4 route later, but for now, TRS is building me a new engine which hopefully will be fitted to my D2 by the end of next week.

Sincere thanks to all of you who shared your experience to help with my decision: sorry I won't be joining you just yet.

Cheers,
Terry

[drivesafe]

bump

[mowog]

bump

One wonders why you would bump such an old thread?

[drivesafe]

Hi mowog, I’m doing some research into electric brakes on trailers and breakaway battery set ups so I bumped this thread up and will ask some questions when I have the time.

Cheers.

[drivesafe]

Hi Folks and I have been doing some R&D with these In-Cab Breakaway Battery Monitors ( Legal requirement for NSW regos only ) and I was wondering if any D3/D4 owners have one fitted and if so how well does it work?

[discojools]

What are In Car Breakaway Battery Monitors?

[drivesafe]

Hi discojools, basically any vehicle towing a caravan over a give weight which requires a breakaway battery ( which is a national requirement ), in NSW, the tow vehicle must have an audible and/or visual indicator in the cab of the tow vehicle to show the state of the breakaway battery.

My research is based on how well these monitors work, if they actually work at all?

[TerryO]

HI Drivesafe,

While a relative newbie to vanning I can say from my limited experience that no one I know has an audible monitor in their tug and prior to you bringing it up I had never heard of this law.

Are you sure in NSW's this is the law given that I have now had two vehicles fitted with brake controllers for towing our van and in both cases the installer new I was towing a van with a break away system and the van dealer didn't mention this as a requirement either when I ordered the van. He did try and sell me a short lead specifically for charging the break away battery though.

One would expect that these businesses which all could have earned more money by selling me this system would have taken every chance to separate me of more money if they had a chance.

cheers,
Terry

[drivesafe]

Hi Terry and this does not surprise me.

Many RTA inspectors are unaware of this requirement and while the legislation came into effect in 1998, only after the 2007 revision was there any real efforts made to enforce this requirement, but if you are pulled over for a spot inspection, there is a good chance you will get a defect notice for both the tow vehicle and the caravan if it’s an NSW registered vehicle and caravan.

The link below will get you a copy of the regulations.

http://www.rta.nsw.gov.au/registration/downloads/vib_06_-_guidelines_for_light_vehicle_modifications_nov_20 07.pdf

[DirtDigger]

Has this situation changed as of 2013? Have other States adopted this regulation and fallen in line with NSW? I haven't heard anything more about it. I am about to buy a van with a breakaway system - The Van's 12 Pin plug is set up with Pins 8 & 9 for the breakaway power supply and monitor. There are monitors ike the ? RV 6000 that actually interrupts the power supply when brakes to the van are applied and tests the battery for the break away at the same time. The breakaway needs its own power supply from the tow vehicle independent to the Van's normal power supply and battery

12-Pin Trailer Plug Connections

Loom 3 & 4


Trailer

Plug

Pin No.

Description Cable colour Cable Cable

Nominal CSA

(mm2)


1 Left Hand Indicator Yellow ECA3 1.13

2 Aux/Reverse Signal

3 Earth Return White ECA4 1.85

4 Right Hand


Indicator

Green ECA3 1.13

5 Service Brakes Blue ECA4 1.85

6 Stop Lights Red ECA3 1.13

7 Clearance/Marker


Lights

Brown ECA3 1.13

8 Brake-safe Charging Black ECA4 1.85

9 Brake-safe Remote Purple ECA4 1.85

10 Earth Return Black ECA6 4.65




11



12 Dometic AES


Sensing wire

(If Applicable)


Pink ECA4 1.85

[goingbush]

Has this situation changed as of 2013? Have other States adopted this regulation and fallen in line with NSW? No, its only a NSW requirement


has anyone ever done any actual testing of a breakaway system.
if they had you would think there would be a YT vid, I can't find any.
I cant see any trailer stopping in a straight line once its broken away from the tow vehicle. application of brakes are more likely to make it go wildly out of control ( or nose into the bituimen and catapault) than none at all. on a tandem, applying rear brakes only would make more sense ???

[GeorgeK]

Hi Everyone,

I don't get back to the site as much as I'd like...too busy traveling I guess.

I thought I would give a quick update on my Dec 2010 post on this topic.

I have now completed over 85,000km in my D4 HSE. About 65,000km have been towing my 24' - 3.3 ton fully loaded caravan.

I can honestly say that the D4 is still the same superb towing vehicle today as it was 3 years ago when I started. It's a great towing vehicle and I have not had any issues towing with it. I still have the standard LR towing hitch and the same stuff as I said in my Dec 2010 post.

As well as some NSW and Vic based activity I have been to Darwin and separately to Townsville. On another trip we went as far north as Cooktown and then across to Karumba via the Savannah Way and then returned to Sydney.

Shortly we will hit the road again and this time we are off to Tasmania for four months and then WA for the rest of 2014. What a great life.

Cheers

George

[CSBrisie]

Lucky devil George :D

What fuel usage are you achieving if you don't mind me asking?

Cheers