Engine disabled

[glenhendry]

I am getting pretty ****ed off. I own a 2000 HSE, and since the battery is dead every 3 days because of the situation described in this thread:
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html

I do not have the EKA security code, that everyone speaks of, and when I asked the previous owner, he said he never had it, and you dont need it because all you need to do is set the windows after the battery is taken out.

Today, I tried every bloody thing to get it started. Thank GOD (who I dont believe in) that it started, because I was getting cranky. I was getting the "ENGINE DISABLED" message when I set up my jump start battery to it, no matter what "1515" eka messages I tired or which buttons I pressed or whatever. I tired everything I could read about online.

Here is what worked: It was the solution described in the "Alternative "Key in Position II" Disarming Procedure" section of page: Security and Alarm System Operation & Diagnosis on Range Rover 4.0/4.6/P38A (http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/becm/alarm.html)

This is for everyones information, but my question is;

- does everyones RR stay awake and go flat all the time in Brisbane?
- Do they have this issue getting it started again?
- I am losing "wife acceptance factor" which is crucial! How do I fix this?
- How do i get the EKA code from LR? (important question (I think))

Thanks YET again. I am sure I will get there, but CRIKEYS, I am being tested. I love my RRP38 very much, but I need to be able to the secrets to deal with her in these cranky moments else I am screwed.

Sincerely
Glen in Brisbane

[Scouse]

PM sent.

[glenhendry]

Thanks Scouse. You are a gentleman. The EKA works fine.

For those that are interested, the RR.net page describes some confusion about how the EKA works for US and Aussie RRs, but I can confirm that this Aussie 2000 HSE used the following method:

- turn to lock FOUR times (this must tell the BeCM that an EKA is coming) - left
- then enter the EKA code as per normal (n x unlock right, n x lock left, n x unlock right, n x lock left)
- turn to unlock - right

You should get beeps to tell you it was successful and unlocking of all four doors instead of just the drivers door locking and unlocking during the procedure.

My RR tends to go into the "engine disabled" mode after being woken up all night by (suspected) rouge RF transmissions and then the fob wont work. I thought the fob didnt work because the battery was flat, but the battery wasnt flat, because it started fine after the EKA was successful.

Interesting little beasts that they are. My biggest problem is that all these cool interesting things about my RR that I am learning interest my wife and friends not in the slightest... :)

[adm333]

I hear you mate.... we all do.

You can put up with the niggly things, but when it just doesn't go, it becomes everyone's problem.

I went through this whole issue earlier in the year.

In the end I had to get a replacement BECM as the old one was shot. Unfortunately, the EKA code did not work for me so it has had a few rides to the workshop on a flat bed.

The next step up is to get your own diagnostic tool, such as a Faultmate MSV. Then you have the abiality to fix these electronic issues yourself. I don't have one yet, but I am very close to buying one.

Dave

[DT-P38]

My biggest problem is that all these cool interesting things about my RR that I am learning interest my wife and friends not in the slightest... :)

Been there many a time. Thats why we hang out on the ínter-google-web, and more specifically here at AULRO regularly imitating some form of weird IT Nerds (sorry Paul and other IT gurus', but you know what I am getting at).

It's just nice to be understood (and related to) on the LR/RR/P38 subject.

[glenhendry]

I am back in the "ENGINE DISABLED - PRESS REMOTE" situation. Uggh.

I cant start the car. I can open it manually with the key, but only the drivers door unlocks. When I open the driver door, all the hazard lights flash and beeping goes off (but no horn alarm interestingly). If I try to start the engine I get the above message.

The problem is thus. Now I cant get the EKA procedure to work. It looks like it is taking no notice of the key turns at all. It doesnt squawk success or failure at the end of the procedure.

Also the "reconnect battery with ignition at position II" procedure is not working either.

The remote key fob is not turning off the alarm, or doing anything, I suspect because it is unsyncd. I cannot resync it because I cant start the car. The alternative sync methods do nothing.

I cant start the car because of the immobiliser. Paul38A has suggested that I give the BeCM the once over, so Im going out there now with the knucke dusters.

I will also check the key barrel on the drivers door and the flux capacitor in the delorian. Give me strength. :) I will report back in later.

[glenhendry]

Do you know how difficult it is to work on the BeCM connections when you cant get your passenger front door open? This thing is like a prison.

[bee utey]

Having a look a RAVE for the 99-on RR there are two main ways your BECM gets at the engine:

1. The inertia switch when tripped causes the BECM to get a signal which I presume makes it send out error messages. Try pressing down the inertia switch. I have read they can be touchy.

Aside from cutting the fuel pump the inertia switch signals the BECM and therefore the BECM would disable the ignition coil relay as below. I would be seriously considering cutting all the wires off the inertia switch and just rejoining the two fat wires that carry the fuel pump current.

2. The main way the BECM disables the engine is to interrupt the earth path to the ignition coil relay. The main ECM will not allow other engine functions unless the ignition coil relay is on. So the ignition coil relay (RL23) is earthed via the BECM on relay terminal 85. There is a circuit labelled "with ship disable" which cuts out the BECM by providing a new earth path to the ECM at its main relay earthing path (pin 23 ECM). The wire from the earth side of the ignition coil relay is white. It goes to a connector C1357 on which the other side is a blue/red stripe wire (goes to pin 23 ECM). I assume this is where the shipping plug goes. Don't ask me where to find this connector. It should be somewhere sensible.

Personally I would fit a temporary earth wire to the 85 terminal of the relay. Jam a bared earthed wire in (with terminal 85) and see if this makes it go.

BTW the BECM end of the ignition coil relay earth wire is pin 9 according to RAVE.

[glenhendry]

Thanks bee utey, thats awesome info. I will read it 15 times before deciding what to do :)

Interestingly, it did start yesterday, after 7 hrs of fluffing around. But I have NO IDEA what I did. I just unlocked drivers door with key manually and all doors unlocked and she started. It ran fine for 20 minutes but the fob did NOT sync, so I still had no remote buttons working. After I accidentally dead locked it with the key (holding lock for 2 secs), I am back in the same situation - only drivers door unlocks and fob wont work. ENGINE DISABLED :(

Yesterday I pulled the door trim, checked all the door outboard station connectors, the door wiring loom connector and all the lock barrel connectors. EKA is still not working. Roadside assist came yesterday and gave up after 15 minutes saying I will need a Rover immobiliser specialist.

Stay tuned.

[bee utey]

Another stare at RAVE: When entering the EKA you must not open the doors until the unlock procedure is complete. Opening the bonnet after entering the EKA but before unlocking is complete cancels the unlocking. Check your bonnet switch is adjusted and working.

[glenhendry]

...after entering the EKA but before unlocking is complete cancels the unlocking...
Interesting. Since the last action in the EKA entry -IS- unlocking, what does this mean?

Also, if it was the inertia switch, wouldnt the engine crank but not start? --- I tried the inertia switch but no change I am afraid. It was a funny feeling switch though, it clicked down (by feel) but didnt click back up like I expected.

[mike 90 RR]

Originally Posted by bee utey View Post
...after entering the EKA but before unlocking is complete cancels the unlocking...


Interesting. Since the last action in the EKA entry -IS- unlocking, what does this mean?


I think you miss read Bee utey's message


Another stare at RAVE: When entering the EKA you must not open the doors until the unlock procedure is complete. Opening the bonnet after entering the EKA but before unlocking is complete cancels the unlocking. Check your bonnet switch is adjusted and working.


Mike

[glenhendry]

OK. I have checked the bonnet switch best I could. Hard to see in there. The car has always complained about the bonnet being open in the past, but I am not certain how to test it in this current immobilised state. I will work it further.

Secondly, I am definitely NOT getting the side lights flashing during the EKA procedure. The drivers door lock is physically moving and unlocking the door, but I do not think that the BeCM knows that the EKA is underway.

Along with the bonnet switch, I think this is my next course. I need to work out what is stopping the becm from seeing the EKA procedure is underway.

Thanks everyone for your help so far. Other reading suggests that the becm is out of sync from the ecu, but since it started yesterday, I dont think that is it.

[daljames]

Once youve done your 4 turns to lock to tell the BECM you are about to enter the EKA you should only get the side lights indicator inside the car on the instrument cluster light up, not the sidelights themselves. At least thats how it works on mine. But hey, they can be individuals these things...

[bee utey]

From RAVE again:

"When the EKA code has been entered, the security LED will continue to flash in deterrent mode to show the alarm is partially disarmed and will be triggered if the bonnet is opened." I assume you then have to lock/unlock using the handset to fully disarm the vehicle.

If your dash reads KEY CODE LOCKOUT you have to wait until it resets. (30 mins)

"If the vehicle has not been locked with the remote handset then in step 4 (of the EKA procedure ie after you have closed all the doors) the key must be turned 4 times to the lock position."

What a circus. I'm glad I don't have one. Pity I can't just copy/paste the RAVE instructions easily. Hope you win.

[33chinacars]

With mine when closing bonnet have to give an extra bush down on the drivers side to get bonnet to lock in. Looks as tho its shut but gets bonnet open message otherwise. Hope this is of some help.

Gary

[glenhendry]

Well guys, thanks for not giving up on me. I am not giving up. I spent another 6 hours today as well as 8 hours yesterday having stern words to my Rangie.

I pulled out the battery, the battery casing, the bonnet latch (GEE thats hard to get to), the fuse box. I disconnected and reconnected all the plugs on the fuse box. I disconnected, sanded and re-tightened all the earth points and positive battery terminals. I took off the body plate atop the radiator. I reconnected the drivers door to body multi plug. I disconnected and reconnected every BeCM connector I could access easily. I pushed the inertia switch button. I did a special RR dance with my daughter. I sang to her delicately. I prayed.

Attached is the pic of the difficult to remove bonnet microswitch. Hopefully this helps others in the future.

I am still not driving. I have no idea what to do. Now after I did the RR renos today, when I "break in" by using the key instead of the remote fob, I get loud annoying horn noises when I didnt before, I think that when I was redoing all the earth points behind the battery holder I 'fixed' the horn. I cant believe this dumb system doesnt realise that I have the key that opens the door and also the same key that fits the ignition and I cant be trusted.

The bonnet latch switch looks fine. fyi in the future - the grille is very easy to remove, the battery and battery holder is easy to remove, the fuse box is easy to remove, the radiator top plate is easy to remove, but all that takes 2 hours to get to the bonnet switch easily. And my best advice in the universe is: dont fight with a multiplug connector like it is your wife. Spend 1 minute and WORK OUT what the lock clip thing is on each multiplug that stops it falling apart and then just unclip it before you let the dragon out :)

Thanks daljames for that specific detail, I was trying to watch the external indicator lights rather than the dashboard lights.

[adm333]

Glen

It doesn't sound too promising.... unfortunately.

Usually the RR dance with one's offspring will do the trick !

I can't help wondering if the door latch mechanism itself is dodgy and needs to be replaced. Not saying its definitely the problem but all the symptoms are there.

I bought my replacement unit from Britpart for about $240.

Then, unfortunately if you thought today's exercise tested your patience, wait until you have a go at swapping the door latch out.

I documented my findings here...

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/97161-if-you-ever-need-replace-your-drivers-door-latch.html

If you decide to give it a go, I'd be happy to give you a hand.

Cheers
Dave

[glenhendry]

Glen
If you decide to give it a go, I'd be happy to give you a hand.
Dave

Onya Dave - you are a champ. I am really getting stumped now. I dont think the car knows that I am trying to do the EKA, so I fear that the driver's door latch is not listening carefully to my key movements.

[mike 90 RR]

OK. I have checked the bonnet switch best I could. Hard to see in there. The car has always complained about the bonnet being open in the past, but I am not certain how to test it in this current immobilised state. I will work it further.

Can you just simply disconnect the wiring to this switch, and just reconnect it to a normal (on off) toggle switch .... this way you manually turn it on / off

Or better still ... Just leave it disconnect ... this way the bonnet is always recorded closed





Don't really know about your system ... and don't know if it's been covered before ..... But this might help

I can't remember where, But I saw a thread that described the troubles of a bad earth to the BECM at hand ... something about they tried a replacement BECM and did not solve the problem .... Further investigation found a 5v recorded, They cleaned up a earth point and then full 12 volts was restored and this resolved the problems

Any one remember this thread?

Cheers
Mike

[glenhendry]

There is a circuit labelled "with ship disable" which cuts out the BECM by providing a new earth path to the ECM at its main relay earthing path (pin 23 ECM). The wire from the earth side of the ignition coil relay is white. It goes to a connector C1357 on which the other side is a blue/red stripe wire (goes to pin 23 ECM). I assume this is where the shipping plug goes. Don't ask me where to find this connector. It should be somewhere sensible.

Personally I would fit a temporary earth wire to the 85 terminal of the relay. Jam a bared earthed wire in (with terminal 85) and see if this makes it go.


The C1357 connector diagram from RAVE is as attached. Its the connector with nothing connected to it under the fuse box in the engine bay. I dont know if that helps us?

I will fit the temp earth to terminal 85 this morning as suggested, once its not so early that the horn alarm will wake all the neighbors. :)

[bee utey]

The C1357 connector diagram from RAVE is as attached. Its the connector with nothing connected to it under the fuse box in the engine bay. I dont know if that helps us?

I will fit the temp earth to terminal 85 this morning as suggested, once its not so early that the horn alarm will wake all the neighbors. :)

Well! Having found the plug there should be the two wire colours mentioned. Make a jumper plug to connect the white wire to the blue/red stripe wire.

Last foolish question, is the battery fully charged? I only ask this as last night I had to rescue friends in their '08 Astra Diesel when their battery went flat driving home with the alternator light on. Boy were the electronics freaking. A night on the charge and it started in the morning.

[glenhendry]

Last foolish question, is the battery fully charged? I only ask this as last night I had to rescue friends in their '08 Astra Diesel when their battery went flat driving home with the alternator light on. Boy were the electronics freaking. A night on the charge and it started in the morning.

No foolishness about it. The battery has been getting a flogging. It goes flat every two days or so due to (I think) rogue RF radiation near my home. I have recently bought a jump start box to get her going whenever its flat in the morning. To make matters worse, its a Supercheap 490CCA battery from the previous owner. So the battery has been fine (as in working), but its not big or high quality, or guaranteed to always have a very full charge. Interestingly though, it starts the car fine even when it is low on voltage.

I am afraid that I didnt get a chance to short the earth to terminal 85 this morning, the tow truck came and took her to MR automotive at Redcliffe. I havent heard from them yet, but I am sufficiently nervous. Ill keep you informed.

[bee utey]

Best 'o British luck, as they say...

[Rupert Prior]

it sounds like the low battery has spiked the Becm. if it has then it will need to be removed, unlocked and tested.
there are some things to try first.
disconnect the battery completely and recharge it. if it is suspect then have a charger handy so when it is reconnected you can provide a full 12.6V with the ignition on (12.6V is very important for LP and LM range rovers).without the battery connected join the pos and neg leads on the car with a jumper wire and turn the ignition to position 2. leave it like that for at least 30 mins. with the door open and igntion on, reconnect the battery making sure you do not ignite any gases and you have the 12.6V.
with any luck it should all be back to normal and you should be able to resyc the key in the drivers door.
this procedure is refered to as a hard reset.
if it still does not work there are more tests to do on the central locking.

[glenhendry]

The RR is back home and running. All the shop did was replace the drivers door latch mechanism. It was $390 part plus 2 hours labour to fit and reset the alarm system. They said that on Autologic the car had messed up its regional settings (to French/Canadian) due to the doorlatch being required to communicate with the BCU.

I am dissapointed that I didnt order and install myself, but I suspect I wouldnt have been able to reset the alarm anyway.

An expensive exercise but it could have been worse. The bad news is that now my fob doesnt work!? He couldnt get it to sync with the car. It is supposed to sync automatically when you start the car. The light still comes on and the fob batteries are new. I have disconnected and reconnected the receiver a few times, but I cant see how that would have broken it? The fob was working fine before this immobiliser problem occurred. The reason I suspect the receiver is because last night the RR slept soundly. Every time I checked, the BECM light was completely dark. Normally I would see it glowing. If the receiver was broken, then it wouldnt pickup the fob or the spurious RF radition?

As usual, I ponder questions:
- How can I test if its the fob or the receiver?
- What causes a receiver to clap out?
- Why couldnt a LR specialist test both and advise?

I am happy to be going again, but at the expense of some cash and at the expense of my keyless entry.

Thanks for all your help in diagnosis during this mini crisis. Once again I am better informed than before.

[Scouse]

It is supposed to sync automatically when you start the car.I've not heard of that one before.

Have you tried locking the car then pressing the 'lock' button while holding the key in the locked position? That's what I do to synchronise the key.

[adm333]

Do you have a manual key that you can use ?

By that I mean a normal key without the fob.

If so, take out the receiver and post it along with the keyfobs you have to Lee at Lab Electronics. He will test it and tell you exactly whether it is one or the other.

You will be no worse off without these pieces for the few days it takes.

Your problems are unfolding exactly the same way mine did in March this year.

Dave

[glenhendry]

I've not heard of that one before.

Have you tried locking the car then pressing the 'lock' button while holding the key in the locked position? That's what I do to synchronise the key.

I havent done that exact thing, but I sure will try. The manual says just start the car, and that hasnt done it. However the manual and workshop both say the resync can only occur if the key lock/unlock or engine start occurs within 30 seconds of a remote key lock or unlock and since my remote key will not lock or unlock, I guess I cannot use that method?

[glenhendry]

Do you have a manual key that you can use ? By that I mean a normal key without the fob.

If so, take out the receiver and post it along with the keyfobs you have to Lee at Lab Electronics. He will test it and tell you exactly whether it is one or the other.
Dave
No, I am afraid not. I only got the one key from the previous owner. I might invest in a newy though, as expensive as they are.



Your problems are unfolding exactly the same way mine did in March this year.
Dave
What happens next? :)

[adm333]

I don't want to jinx you, so I won't say, but I did get very annoyed with not having remote entry to the car. A function which I consider to be mandatory not optional.

Hopefully your problems are all but solved !

[glenhendry]

I havent done that exact thing, but I sure will try. The manual says just start the car, and that hasnt done it. However the manual and workshop both say the resync can only occur if the key lock/unlock or engine start occurs within 30 seconds of a remote key lock or unlock and since my remote key will not lock or unlock, I guess I cannot use that method?


I am afraid it didnt work. Although I was scared of holding it turned to the lock position for too long for fear of it superlocking and never letting me set foot inside again. There are so many conflicting reports on how to sync fobs, its confusing... So I am worried that something has gone wrong with the receiver or worse the becm. The car is running beautifully at the moment, so I am driving dangerously, with all fingers crossed. :D

My next step is to crack out the multimeter and test that the receiver is getting 12v and also that it is sending whatever signal it is supposed to be sending when the fob is pressed, then I will check that that same signal is getting as far as the BeCM. Then I am planning on hitting the gin and crying myself to sleep. :) Stay tuned.

[PaulP38a]

Glen - if you are down Canberra way sometime (or I come up to BrisVegas) I have the multi-vehicle BeCM licence on my FaultMate so we may be able to do some diagnostics with that. Worst case, we can disable the immobiliser.
Cheers, Paul.

[glenhendry]

Glen - if you are down Canberra way sometime (or I come up to BrisVegas) I have the multi-vehicle BeCM licence on my FaultMate so we may be able to do some diagnostics with that. Worst case, we can disable the immobiliser.
Cheers, Paul.

I am all for passive immobilisation disable. Thanks Paul. I think that I would rather that it got stolen than lock me out for a week.

[glenhendry]

I have tested 12v at connector 0358 for the RF receiver. It has voltage all the time, even with the key out of the ignition to receive keyfob transmissions. So I know that the receiver is getting power. But I cant find in RAVE what voltages I should be expecting on the wire out of the receiver into the BeCM.

The fuse is fine and I switched the relay so they are OK too.

I also installed a stonking new battery (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html#post1390854) which at least rules that out of the equation.

[Rupert Prior]

you can test the receiver and that it is getting a signal from the remote (but not what signal) at that 3pin connector on the receiver unit or at the becm. at the receiver 3pin connector you will find 2 wires have battery voltage and the other is ground. inturn test the 2 bat voltage wires while pressing the remote. if all is well one wire will show a definate voltage drop when the remote is opperating.

[glenhendry]

Key fob test done. I used Rupert's advice and this (http://www.p38rangerover.com/central-locking/remote-fob-test.html) page along with RAVE. The connector name is wrong on the page (later models use C1285 for that connector as per this page (http://www.rangerovers.net/repairdetails/becm/index.html#connectors)), but it is a good description.

On pin 6 of connector C1285 I had a constant 11.1 volts when earthed to the BECM body, upon pressing the fob button (either lock or unlock) the voltage changed very reliably to 10.9 volts. That proves to me that the fob is transmitting, that the RF recever is reciving the signal and sending it to the BeCM, it also proves that the wiring to the BECM is fine, and now the bad news - for some reason my BeCM is not doing the right thing with that information.

Doh. Now what? :)

[Rupert Prior]

i have some questions if you in the mood.
11.1v at pin 6 is a bit low. what voltage do you have at the battery with the ignition on? does the central locking work as i should from the drivers door with the key? has anything else on the car stopped working at arround the same time as this problem appeared? do you get any signal pulses on pin 6 when you do not press the button on the remote?

[glenhendry]

i have some questions if you in the mood.
11.1v at pin 6 is a bit low. what voltage do you have at the battery with the ignition on? does the central locking work as i should from the drivers door with the key? has anything else on the car stopped working at arround the same time as this problem appeared? do you get any signal pulses on pin 6 when you do not press the button on the remote?

i have some questions if you in the mood.
Sure - I welcome and appreciate your help

11.1v at pin 6 is a bit low. what voltage do you have at the battery with the ignition on?
I just retested with the engine running. It was a steady 11.60v at the BeCM end which dropped to 11.35 with the fob button pressed. The purple power wire at the receiver's connecter had 13.7v and the orange signal wire at the receiver had (same as Becm end) 11.64v.

I think I read that the receiver had a 12v power source, but the signal to the becm was supposed to be lower than 12v. I could be wrong.
13.78 when running - However, it is a new battery as per this (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html#post1390854) post
12.76 with ignition off
12.66 with ignition on

does the central locking work as i should from the drivers door with the key?
yes - all good - all doors work, alarm switches on and off - new door lock actuator installed (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118610-engine-disabled.html#post1389429) last week

has anything else on the car stopped working at arround the same time as this problem appeared?
Not as of last night, but yes as of this morning. In fact - amazing you should ask this - this morning when I got out to the car, all the indicator turn signals were on. I am worried aplenty that this should mean BeCM problems. The six indicator lights were on without flashing and stayed on once I unlocked with the key. They event stayed on when I started the car - and it started fine. I used the hazards and they started flashing as designed, then stayed on again when I killed the hazards. I locked the car and then started it through the window and the alarm (and horn - oops) went off as normal which I silenced by locking the drivers door with the key. It started again fine and all went back to normal. Somewhere in that sequence there were funny noises under the bonnet and the washers for the headlights sprayed water. I fear I have a confused car.

All else is fine - starting, driving, lights, dash, etc.

do you get any signal pulses on pin 6 when you do not press the button on the remote?
No, it was rock solid.

[Rupert Prior]

the becm is failing, this may be the becm or a have been caused by something else. while it is still mobile get the car to somewhere you can work on it and has no unwanted rf signals and try the hard reset two or three times. if that fails then another becm is the way to go, i dont think a repair would work for long. if you find another unit i can clone yours to it.

[glenhendry]

the becm is failing, this may be the becm or a have been caused by something else. while it is still mobile get the car to somewhere you can work on it and has no unwanted rf signals and try the hard reset two or three times. if that fails then another becm is the way to go, i dont think a repair would work for long. if you find another unit i can clone yours to it.

Ugh. The worst news I have received in a while - even though I still appreciate your input. :)

Arent BeCM problems indistinguishable from fusebox problems? I mean if the fusebox is playing up, wont it cause the BeCM to do funny things? I realise that you seem to know what you are talking about, but is it worth checking anything else to rule out dependencies?

I hope not, but this could be a death knell for my P38. If the repairs/replacement of the BeCM run into more than many hundreds, then I wont be able to justify the expense - my love affair with the Rangey will have been short lived and brutal. The risk I took spending all the money I had on the original vehicle doesnt seem to have paid off... [bawl]

I have an additional admission. When I was troubleshooting the immobiliser problems, I disconnected and reconnected all of the accesible BeCM plugs to ensure that they had a firm positive connection. While disconnected, I gave each one a quick spray of electrical contact cleane (http://www.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=NA1012)r from Jaycar. When I did this, I dont think I had the battery disconnected. Is it possible that the spray is causing issues on the BeCM connectors or is that a pretty safe practice?

[adm333]

Time to shine the big bat light into the sky and call for Andrew e (Andy) to see if he has a donor BeCM at the moment.

If so, you should be able to solve your problems without losing the farm...... or the Rangie



Dave

[bee utey]

Contact cleaner is not conductive, the risk is that it is flammable if you produce a spark on reconnection. Didn't happen so that's safe.

[glenhendry]

More info is at hand. When I tried (in vain) to synch my fob with this procedure (http://rangerovers.net/repairdetails/becm/replace.html#remote) that I hadnt seen until now, I noticed something.

The RR is sleeping peacefully here at work, but when I use the fob button and watch the gear selector light she wakes up. All that proves is that the receiver is working (which I knew from voltage tests) and that the BeCM is receiving some kind of signal from it, however no doors lock or unlock. It was an interesting observation to me since I was able to test the transmitter, recevier, wiring and connectors with one easy step. Might help someone in the future.

[adm333]

I can certainly understand where you are at.....

You put the key in and press the button just one more time.... clutching to the desperate hope that this time it will work and all the worrying was for nothing.

You know that its probably not going to work, but that doesn't stop you having one more try....

I am not taking the **** here, I genuinely know how it feels. There are so many different remedies documented that you cannot believe that none of the simple ones will work.

Keep us posted.....

[PaulP38a]

have sent an e-mail to Glen, but it might be better/quicker to ask here...

Rupert - will a BeCM from a 1998 P38 be a suitable donor for Glen's?

If so, Andy has one he can send you.

Cheers, Paul.

[Rupert Prior]

i will have to check as yours is lucas inj and his is bosch inj but i think it will work as long as it is a highline unit (faint capital H by itself in the lefthand corner of the paper sticker above the fuses). i will check the wiring diag tomorrow, i can`t remember the difference but i think i can just change the programing. the part number would be handy as well (paper sticker again).
it would still be worth trying the hard reset again, perhaps try powering it down overnight.also the key resync in the handbook on that model is wrong it is the same as all the others, lock and unlock the door with the key while pressing the remote buttons.

[PaulP38a]

Cool, thanks Rupert.

I will pass your phone number to Andy and ask him to give you a call when he can check the BeCM for the info you requested.

Agree about the hard reset though. My previous 95 P38 needed a reboot every few months... the engine would start fine but no electrics and all the lights would flash.

Current 99 P38 has been well behaved by comparison. Only had to reboot once when I thought the fuel pump had died. Disconnecting the battery for a few minutes can work wonders.

Cheers, Paul.

[Keithy P38]

Just WOW... For your sake Glen, I hope BeCM replacement therapy works the treat!

If it makes you feel better, I've heard what you have many times regarding the key re-sync. According to a few sources that i've read, it should do it all by itself. I had a similar issue to you when my previous P38 went for an interior wash in a creek a month ago. I didn't use any special procedure to get it all going again, had the alarms and everything you did too, simply unlocked the car and put the key in and she was all good! Except the minor problem that was the car didn't run on all 8 pots and ended up being written off...

I feel your pain (to a degree) and hope that it all ends up working fine for you mate!

Gotta give a big cheers to the help you're seeing on the forum here - how lucky are we to have such knowledge and advice at our fingertips! And help is only ever a phone call away for most people here!

I know a certain lad who helped me out immensely even though I am from Cane-toad territory and he's from Gillard's new office (thereabouts). If it wasn't for this forum we'd all be stuck!

Cheers
Keithy

[glenhendry]

Gotta give a big cheers to the help you're seeing on the forum here - how lucky are we to have such knowledge and advice at our fingertips! And help is only ever a phone call away for most people here!
Keithy

I know - in fact, without lurking here before I bought a car, having had a mate with one, I wouldnt have ventured down P38 alley. I am extremely grateful for this resource, local too! I would really feel pretty helpless without it. I hope to be able to gain enough nouse to help others in the future.



it would still be worth trying the hard reset again, perhaps try powering it down overnight.
I sure will. I meant to have tried it before now, but I have been running around a bit crazy. I will get onto tonight and report it. I am more hopeful then I should be ;)

On a similar note, last night I made some more final checks. I got access to the BeCM earth and what do you know, I could turn the earth wiring connecters (3 of) with my fingers easily. I reckon there was still a connection, but I took them off, sanded them back a little and used electrical contact cleaner on them and retightened (using Arnie strength).



also the key resync in the handbook on that model is wrong it is the same as all the others, lock and unlock the door with the key while pressing the remote buttons.
This -IS- interesting news. I will try it today. Dumb questiopn: Does that mean holding down both buttons while locking and then unlocking, or holding lock button while locking and then holding unlock button while unlocking? I also assume the key stays in the lock throughout this process?



have sent an e-mail to Glen, but it might be better/quicker to ask here...
Rupert - will a BeCM from a 1998 P38 be a suitable donor for Glen's?
If so, Andy has one he can send you.
Cheers, Paul.
Thanks Paul, got your phone message. I sure do appreciate it. The AUD is strong right now so access to Yankee BeCMs is good, but I would much rather support this local group. After hard reset and more stern words to Rangey Stacey I will contact you.


I can certainly understand where you are at.....

You put the key in and press the button just one more time.... clutching to the desperate hope that this time it will work and all the worrying was for nothing.

You know that its probably not going to work, but that doesn't stop you having one more try....

I am not taking the **** here, I genuinely know how it feels. There are so many different remedies documented that you cannot believe that none of the simple ones will work.

Keep us posted.....
I felt better reading this post. Thanks David. It is good to know that I am not the only one doing these strange dance moves and incantations ;)

[adm333]

"Rangey Stacey" ..... that is gold :D

Was that one of the munchkins that came up with that ?

Excellent work though. It's a pet now, you can't get rid of Rangey Stacey.

[glenhendry]

disconnect the battery completely and recharge it. if it is suspect then have a charger handy so when it is reconnected you can provide a full 12.6V with the ignition on (12.6V is very important for LP and LM range rovers).without the battery connected join the pos and neg leads on the car with a jumper wire and turn the ignition to position 2. leave it like that for at least 30 mins. with the door open and igntion on, reconnect the battery making sure you do not ignite any gases and you have the 12.6V.
with any luck it should all be back to normal and you should be able to resyc the key in the drivers door.
this procedure is refered to as a hard reset.

Hard reset underway - in basement at work - will advise...
Update - 8 hours later...
The hard reset is complete. She started up without alarms with door open and key in position 2. Unfortunately I still am unable to sync the fob. The key-in-door lock and unlock is working fine, and it is starting and driving fine. I have only had one instance of funny indicator lights lit in the morning and it was in my RF-drenched garage. Now I am unsure if I need to suspect the BeCM of being dead or dying and I think that I am reluctant to buy and clone a replacement. I have half a mind to crack open the BeCM and see if there is a family of possums living in there ("I call the big one bitey" - Homer Simpson).

[glenhendry]

Hard reset underway - in basement at work - will advise...
Update - 8 hours later...
The hard reset is complete. She started up without alarms with door open and key in position 2. Unfortunately I still am unable to sync the fob. The key-in-door lock and unlock is working fine, and it is starting and driving fine. I have only had one instance of funny indicator lights lit in the morning and it was in my RF-drenched garage. Now I am unsure if I need to suspect the BeCM of being dead or dying and I think that I am reluctant to buy and clone a replacement. I have half a mind to crack open the BeCM and see if there is a family of possums living in there ("I call the big one bitey" - Homer Simpson).

Disambiguification: This thread is my BeCM/immobiliser problem. While This thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html) is my BeCM not sleeping and killing the battery problem. They are related, but I am keeping them seperate and cross referencing them when it makes sense.

I have been running fine for a few weeks with my new battery (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html#post1390854) I have more info on the suspect BeCM. I have been parking across the street to avoid the BeCM waking in my garage and all has been well. Never showing alzeimers, always starting, always running fine, always sleeping.

Last night due to the thunder storms, I moved her back into the garage for refuge. What do you know, within 2 hours, all the indicators came on (again (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118610-engine-disabled.html#post1392354)) and stayed on. I moved it back out into the street and into the rain and she slept again and no funny lights all night.

Whatever is causing the RF interference and waking the BeCM from sleep is also causing the BeCM to go into funny behaviour mode. This doesnt happen outside my garage?! I have tried shutting down the house mains, and I have permission from neighbours to do that to their house when they are away soon.

Thankfully Rupert is able to clone my BeCM (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118610-engine-disabled.html#post1392406) to a donor BeCM which Andy and Paul are chasing (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118610-engine-disabled.html#post1392820) to see if the right type is available.

I am willing to spring for the donor BeCM, but I am still wondering if another RR will sleep in my garage after 2 minutes. If it does, that means my BeCM is indeed faulty, if it doesnt, it might mean there is some hope for mine.

My goals are to park my car in my garage without problems. Doesnt seem too much to ask ;) My continued appreciation to all offering input and encouragement.

[PhilipA]

Has anyone died in your garage?
Maybe you should speak to the local priest for an exorcism.
Worth a try?
Regards Philip A

[adm333]

Glen

I am away at the moment as I mentioned but when I get back I will happily be the test guinea pig for seeing if my rangey will sleep in your garage (for a short time).

Dave

[glenhendry]

Glen

I am away at the moment as I mentioned but when I get back I will happily be the test guinea pig for seeing if my rangey will sleep in your garage (for a short time).

Dave

You are a champ. If the house was built on an Indian burial ground, and it haunts your BeCM, Ill shout you a replacement. :)

I think the more likely scenario is that my BeCM is terminal. Keen to get the data point though. Should only take 3 minutes.

[glenhendry]

It seems I didnt follow up on this. Dave was kind enough to drive his RR into my jinxed garage. Alas, his normally sleepy RR was awoken in the same fashion as my own. So there is definitely a source of interference for a RR BeCM there.

It even wakes up with the RF receiver antenna disconnected so it must be strong.

I guess I have two options:
1) Find the source of the interference and rambo it
2) Buy a new improved RF receiver from LR that will not be so prone to waking

[bee utey]

Have you thought of turning your garage into a Faraday cage? Securely earth all metal sheeting and apply metal flywire over all brickwork, windows, doors and vents, connected to a common earth stake.

Or ask the air force over to pinpoint the enemy jammer and blow it up with a tactical nuke.

[Keithy P38]

Libyan forces have been at work since way back in December hey!

[RoverHse]

I have also found a flat battery to be a nightmare. As the car is probably locked when the battery died. When you open the bonnet and connect the jumpers, the car thinks it's being stolen and starts activating immobiliser systems. So now when I have a dead battery which does not allow me to open the car with the remote, I earth the jump leads on the body and connect the positive to the starter motor battery cable from underneath. Power is then supplied and the car opened by remote and no protection systems activated. If the car is unlocked at the time of power loss this is generally not a problem.

Once open keep the door wide open. Before I had learnt the above, I had manually unlocked the car and opened the bonnet. When I supplied power to the battery the car locked again - WITH THE KEYS INSIDE!!

There is also a limited number of times that the EKA code can be attempted before the systems locks out, and you need to wait about 30 minutes for it to reset and allow you to try again.

[parasnoop67]

Do you think that a better battery may help. I read on one of the forums that the biggest and best battery you can fit in the tray is the way to go.
I'm running a Delcor Calcium with 900 cca's and things work well with that because the voltage is always up there.

[glenhendry]

Do you think that a better battery may help. I read on one of the forums that the biggest and best battery you can fit in the tray is the way to go.
I'm running a Delcor Calcium with 900 cca's and things work well with that because the voltage is always up there.

I installed a very big battery as per this thread below (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118610-engine-disabled.html#post1390856). But I agree, this is important for RRs, but not as important and good earths for battery and BeCM.

[jsp]

just remember, even though you have turned off all the power in the entire suburb hoping to kill off all potential RF polluters, the neighbors 2 doors down battery operated wireless baby monitor just might set it off.....ask me how I know ;)

Or the day the neighbors kid got a remote controlled mini forklift....my garage door went up and down a hundred times before I worked it out....

damn people with kids.....:eek:

[glenhendry]

That would be fine!

If RR woke up 3 times a night, there would be no problem, its happening every 100 seconds at my place, all night, every night. :)

[jsp]

that's about the update rate on my el cheapo wireless rain gauge

[glenhendry]

I want to follow up on this. I hope no-one minds me dragging it up again. I hope it is of use to someone in the future. Rupert below in this same thread, kindly offers his opinion on the reason for the symptoms of crazy wipers and lights that my car was displaying in the garage:


the becm is failing, this may be the becm or a have been caused by something else. while it is still mobile get the car to somewhere you can work on it and has no unwanted rf signals and try the hard reset two or three times. if that fails then another becm is the way to go, i dont think a repair would work for long. if you find another unit i can clone yours to it.

Now, I believe Rupert has much more experience with such things than me, but I had a stubborn belief that my BeCM was OK. I didnt replace the BeCM. So far (touch walnut), the car and BeCM has been working perfectly for 6 months regular driving since then. My conclusion is that the errant radiation that was keeping my BeCM awake at night (proven by adm333 reproducing the waking behaviour with his car in my garage) was also causing the BeCM to go bananas.

So when people are experiencing strange vehicle electrical behavior, before assuming the BeCM is terminal, it may just be that you are in an area of saturating EM radiation. I reserve the right to abandon this notion and beg Rupert for help when my BeCM does fail. :p

I now need to go door to door to all my neighbours and find out who is transmitting a ~433mhz signal every 15 seconds. Will be asking about wireless rain guages, weather stations, burglar alarms etc. Sounds like fun hey?


Disambiguification: This thread is my BeCM/immobiliser problem. While This thread (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html) is my BeCM not sleeping and killing the battery problem. They are related, but I am keeping them seperate and cross referencing them when it makes sense.

[Rupert Prior]

no worries, i`m glad you are getting to the bottom of the problem.

[DavidL]

If you cant find an answer on this forum try the UK one at LandyZone - Land Rover Forum (http://www.landyzone.co.uk)
They have a lot more P38s there and also a lot of people who know them and seem to have the same problems so it might be worth a visit.

[glenhendry]

The situation has finally been resolved. Completely. There are three thread that are related, I will finalise them all; here is the list:
- "fob handset sync (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/131973-fob-handset-sync-methods-no-remote-access-me.html#post1597224)"
- "Becm waking up (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118471-becm-waking-up-dead-battery.html)"
- "engine disabled (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/118610-engine-disabled.html)"

The solution ,as predicted by many who helped, was to buy the upgraded RF receiver (YWY500170). I got one from Island 4x4 for GBP141. It is very easy to install and requires no resync or setup.

Now the car is sleeping peacefully in the garage and on the street, with doors locked or unlocked. I am very relieved.

I think the main lesson here is that if your car is waking due to these errant signals, get it fixed (or remove rf receiver) before it drains your battery, thereby rattling and ruining your door locks, and confusing your becm into forgetting your fob codes. Better still, dont buy a house with 433mhz radiation around the place.

Sorry for the duplicate posts on these threads.

[DT-P38]

Good for you for sticking with it mate! Many would have just called it mysterious P38 gremlins and sold out of the car. Enjoy the peace of mind and the P38.

I know of guys who are now (happily?!?) driving lesser vehicles and still missing their P38's... glad your not one of those poor torn and lost souls!!!!

AND, glad we all get to learn from your trial by ordeal. Thankyou.

[Grumbles]

Better still, dont buy a house with 433mhz radiation around the place.



Is it possible to buy a "scanner" of some sort from say Jaycar etc which will pick up these stray signals?

[glenhendry]

Is it possible to buy a "scanner" of some sort from say Jaycar etc which will pick up these stray signals?

I believe that it is not -quite- that simple. The interference could be a huge spike emission covering a range of frequencies, blatting across the spectrum. However, if it really is just a close 433 signal, then I believe you can use an old RF receiver with a 9v battery plugged into it and a led attached?

[guy]

Looks like this blog is way to late but for others who may be experiencing the battery running flat and intermittent engine imobilisation my experience may help.
To start with I tried EKA codes, new battery and finally disconnecting the remote locking RF receiver in the luggage compartment. The thought being randome signals received by the BeCM from outside sources would then immobilise the engine. So I disconnected the RF receiver and tried just using manual unlock this should have worked, alass it did not.
There is another circuit contained in the RH door ECU which relays the RF rolling code to the BeCM. Once this circuit was replaced it all works. This unit is hardly mentioned in the workshop manual.
For remote trips I leave the RF unit disconnected and still use manual locking.