Q2 - Articulation & Footprint vs Lockers?

[Tikirocker]

Leading on from the winch question ... my next question is whether to buy lockers now while I have the scratch and the dollar is good or whether I ought to put my money towards suspension?

The scenario ... I have a County with a 2" lift and CDL, I believe the lift was achieved with taller springs as opposed to other methods. The rear springs are Kings Springs from a 130 fitted to take the extra load in the tray as the PO was a chippy. I have no idea how old the shocks are, fronts are Ironman I think and the rear, no idea. The shocks look old and might do well with renewal, you can't see any maker labels left on them.

Here is my question ... in my reading it has been said that traction is the key off road, pretty simple stuff right? In an unlocked Land Rover like my County ( apart from CDL ) - am I right in assuming that as long as I can safely maximize my articulation ( within reasonable bounds ) in order to maximize my footprint/traction with the ground, then by that logic I might well be able to get much the same performance as a locked 4x4?

I ask this because with a house renovation ensuing I don't have money to devote very often to my own 4x4 whims. I have some scratch now and I am wondering while the window is open whether I should just get lockers while I can ... or would I be achieving much the same for less hassle buy getting 2" longer shocks all round, extending my brake lines and fitting dislocation cones? Then relying on proper airing down off road, work with that instead?

Thing is ... 4 new shocks and new break lines + cones etc would come pretty close to the same money as lockers from the U.S right now minus fitting. What say you all? Does articulation and footprint match up to lockers? Which way should I go?

Simon.

[stig0000]

locker will beat any amount of travel anyday,, tecnicly if u have 2 wheels touching with traction,, you will move ford with a locker, sus will get you so far,

get it wile there still sorta cheap

[long stroke]

Yep, well setup suspension will get you further, especially with a good set of muddies run at low pressure's.
But still won't come close to matching the improvment's in capability lockers will give you.
the more a wheel travels downwards the less weight over the tyre making it more likely to lose traction, with lockers this aint as much of a problam seeing you have 100% drive to all wheels.:cool:
It comes down to wether or not you will be driving hard enough stuff to need lockers or will suspenion and a winch do the trick for your needs.....

CHEERS TIM.

[Tank]

Leading on from the winch question ... my next question is whether to buy lockers now while I have the scratch and the dollar is good or whether I ought to put my money towards suspension?

The scenario ... I have a County with a 2" lift and CDL, I believe the lift was achieved with taller springs as opposed to other methods. The rear springs are Kings Springs from a 130 fitted to take the extra load in the tray as the PO was a chippy. I have no idea how old the shocks are, fronts are Ironman I think and the rear, no idea. The shocks look old and might do well with renewal, you can't see any maker labels left on them.

Here is my question ... in my reading it has been said that traction is the key off road, pretty simple stuff right? In an unlocked Land Rover like my County ( apart from CDL ) - am I right in assuming that as long as I can safely maximize my articulation ( within reasonable bounds ) in order to maximize my footprint/traction with the ground, then by that logic I might well be able to get much the same performance as a locked 4x4?

I ask this because with a house renovation ensuing I don't have money to devote very often to my own 4x4 whims. I have some scratch now and I am wondering while the window is open whether I should just get lockers while I can ... or would I be achieving much the same for less hassle buy getting 2" longer shocks all round, extending my brake lines and fitting dislocation cones? Then relying on proper airing down off road, work with that instead?

Thing is ... 4 new shocks and new break lines + cones etc would come pretty close to the same money as lockers from the U.S right now minus fitting. What say you all? Does articulation and footprint match up to lockers? Which way should I go?

Simon.
You now own a Land Rover 2WD if you fit lockers you will have a 4WD Land Rover, the improvement from a set of Lockers will far outweigh anything else you put on your vehicle, next in line is Maxi Drive axles, spend wisely, I recommend ARB air lockers with Maxi axles and flanges, Regards Frank.

[weeds]

locker in my view save your drivetrain as well as giving you more control

i run standard suspension and have test lockers verse open diffs, sure wheel spin and speed got me over the line but on second attempt with lockers engaged i just idled over the same obstacle, no wheel spin and much safer for the passengers

[JDNSW]

Suspension improvements are irrelevant if the traction problem is one front one back wheel lose traction but not ground pressure, for example due to slippery patches on a hill - only lockers will keep you going in this case. Both will be effective where the problem is getting cross axled or slipping due to reduced pressure on diagonally opposite wheels.

So lockers are more generally useful (but carry the liability that you are more likely to break things, such as CV joints, although this is largely in the hands or rather feet of the driver). But you need to ask yourself whether the driving you are planning needs either - the vehicle is more capable ex factory than almost anything else.

And for most conditions, dropping tyre pressure is very effective.

John

[Ace]

Hi Simon, mate, i learnt my craft in the disco with open diffs and a 2in lift with some cheap retread muddies. I was a total novice when I started.

I honestly dont think I would have developed line picking skills etc and the craft of working a vehicle up a track if I had put lockers on the truck straight away.

Having said that for instant off road results you cant beat a locker. I love mine, i have them front and rear. In hind sight i reckon only the rear would have done.

But to answer your actual question lockers will have more of a result in terms of capability. but if the suspension is on its way out do the suspension and save for the locker. I would budget for axles aswell, as Tank said, do the maxi drive axles and flanges with the ARB Air locker.

Matt

[Tikirocker]

Some great advice blokes ... I am torn right now, so many different ways I could go and so many different combination's of things I could do!

Do I get new shocks all round and get new tie rod ends sorted first ... worry about the rest later?

If I get new shocks, should I get longer shocks and some dislo cones, longer break lines?

How much are Maxi axles and flanges? Maybe I should get those first ... focus on getting the basic mechanical side of the truck sorted first ... now THAT makes sense. :angel: BTW* Don't I already have the bullet proof CV's in my County? All I need are the flanges right?

Simon.

[big guy]

Lockers are great, my rear maxi got me out of trouble a number of times but its probably the cause of getting me into trouble in the 1st place.
A locker you will use on the odd occasion, good shocks and sorted ride/suspension you will use even going down the road getting the paper.

50mm lift will need no dislocation cones, brake line extensions or the like.
Just match the length to the springs.
:cool::cool::cool:

[Tikirocker]

50mm lift will need no dislocation cones, brake line extensions or the like.Just match the length to the springs.
:cool::cool::cool:


Ahhhh didn't think of that did I ... a mate told me to get 2" longer shocks and make sure to extend the brake lines is all ... to allow for the additional travel but maybe on a 2" lift it's not required?

Simon.

[LowRanger]

Ahhhh didn't think of that did I ... a mate told me to get 2" longer shocks and make sure to extend the brake lines is all ... to allow for the additional travel but maybe on a 2" lift it's not required?

Simon.


Depends on the actual shocks used,if the extended length is more than 2" longer than standard,and you are running the springs unretained then you will need to use extended lines or risk damage.I only have 2" lift,but can use the full length of my 4" extended lines easily,if I ran it unretained.

Wayne

[Tikirocker]

Thanks Wayne ... pretty new to much of this stuff so I need this sort of advice. I have to assume that what I have now are retained springs with standard shocks - what needs to happen if I want to get better flex and travel with my standard 2" lift?

Cheers, Simon.

[wagoo]

County suspension is good enough as is for ride and handling with moderate articulation.The problem i've found chasing extra articulation through suspension lifts is that the tyres sidewalls on the compressed side tends to foul on the coil spring mounts or front shocker towers, because the roll centre is moved further down in relation to the chassis.At any rate you won't get proper fr/rear balanced articulation without discarding the radius arms and re engineering the front suspension.Holey radius arm bushings allow more movement at the expense of proper axle location when braking or when the front end is scrabbling for traction.
Difflocks will make the biggest improvement.County CV joints are not bullet proof. They are just stronger than Pretender 300/td5/puma cv's. However with moderate 33'' or less tyres they will cope with difflock stresses providing you avoid too much steering lock with the front locker engaged.
Wagoo.

[long stroke]

I agree with what ACE said, i didn't to a hell of a lot of driving prior to getting lockers but that small amount proved very handy with learning to pick the right lines in tricky situations. now i have lockers sometimes you can get abit slack with the lines you take, and get into strife pretty easy:D
So if you havn't done much 4wding without lockers it might be an idea to do so first;)
now i have lockers i almost use them daily sometimes:D
used them every day last week after work, thought i'd take the scenic route home instead of the highway, the joy's of living in Coffs Harbour where the tracks are so close to home:cool:

CHEERS TIM.