Truck no go - did a silly thing

[101RRS]

I have been doing a few things to the 101 over the last month or so but had to stop when the rain started in a big way just over two weeks ago.

The weather is now a bit better so I went to start work again only to find I had left the ignition on and all three batteries were dead. With the ignition on, the draw from the two starter batteries would have been a couple of relays and some dash instruments (24v alternator was not connected). The draw from the 12v deep cycle would have been ignition coil and ignition amplifier, clock, and exciter coils in the 12v alternator, the LPG system and 12v instruments.

The 24v battery system was completely dead with one battery showing -2v and the other 5v (the visual indicators still showed green though). The deep cycle was still showing 12v and was able to provide power but the indicator was red. When the cranking batteries ran down various relays would have shut down so stopping power from the 12v deep cycle before it discharged completely.

Put all batteries on a smart charger and all have come back, however while I now have power on both circuits, the starter motor will not turn over - no click, no nothing. I have replaced the starter batteries with alternatives and still no starter.

So is there something in the army stuff that could have been damaged with having ignition power on for so long that would be stopping the starter from going - - maybe a relay in addition to then starter solenoid.

Hoping for an easy answer before I have to go and climb under it and start tracking stuff through.

Thanks

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

there may be a handfull of relays that have burnt the contacts on and are now not playing.

[101RRS]

Thats what I am thinking as well - all the standard relays are located in the drivers footwell I guess I need to get the test light and multimeter out and start checking - what a pain.

Thanks

Garry

[lardy]

I remember on Petrol stuff leaving the ignition on would burn your coil out, but not the starter unless you get power down to the solenoid on that stage as oppossed to the actual cranking stage.
So must be a relay for load I could phone my mate tomorrow with regards his 101 starter system would that help?

[justinc]

Garry, have you checked that there is power to the starter relay from the ignition switch? The constant load in the 'on' position may have overheated the actual ignition switch, (like a melting Defender headlamp switch:(), and could just have a contact problem.

Try jumping terminals on the starter solenoid and see if it turns over.

JC

[101RRS]

Thanks to everyone - was hoping for an easy reply to save me doing the work but I guess I need to get dirty and go looking. Been occupied with something else and will now have to leave things until after Christmas.

Is a bit odd as everything that seems to run when just the ignition is on seems to be working but the starter circuit which with just the ignition on is inactive is not now working. I really do not want to pull the dash out to check the ignition switch - is a real pain as all the wires are too short behind it and they need to be reinstalled with long nose pliers and mirrors to get it all connected again.

I will get the wiring diagrams out tonite and track stuff back.

Cheers

Garry

[PeterP]

All these relays have earth connections on the mounting screws. I would be checking all these earths and any other starter related connections first. You've had a bit of rain down there, we've just had liquid sunshine here. So with the ignition on (potential electrical flow) and lots of moisture a bad connection problem seems a very strong possibility.
Working behind the 101 dash is akin to torture! Best of luck.

[Blknight.aus]

hang about I just had a brain kick..

dual system yeah....

12v and 24v start.


theres a 12v feed relay that switches the 24v power for the 24v charging system. This same relay also turns the signal power for the 24v aux relay that drives the startermotor solenoide...

bet that ones the culprit.

Dont ask me where it is.

[101RRS]

hang about I just had a brain kick..

dual system yeah....

12v and 24v start.


theres a 12v feed relay that switches the 24v power for the 24v charging system. This same relay also turns the signal power for the 24v aux relay that drives the startermotor solenoide...

bet that ones the culprit.

Dont ask me where it is.

I think you have picked the right relay but for the wrong reason - my truck was originally all 24v. When I pulled out the 24v dissy and coil I just used the standard 24v feed to the old coil to switch 12v via a relay to the new ignition system - so the engine cranking system is unchanged.

Maybe I need to get the engine cranking handle (when I get one) out and use that.

Thanks for the thought as it was what I was thinking - all the original everyday non army stuff relays live on the side of the drivers footwell.

Garry

[Blknight.aus]

Im actually not basing that off of a 101...

its off of a stairs truck at work... we had this same fault last week but the relay had died from being immersed in hyd fluid that came out of the emergancy pumps lowering control which had spat its screw valve out and hosed the underside of everything with OM 33.

24V truck with 12v accessories and not a wiring diagram to be found anywhere as the original company went bust and the AAP for the vehicle says "refer to OEM documentation in E format AND the online (E format) stuff says "Item is manufacturer managed, OEM manuals are not available, repair works to be contracted to Manufacturer at manufacturers expense during warranty period"

Always makes me want to ask... "If I'm not allowed to repair something unless I have the Publication detailing the task work how do i fix this?"

[101RRS]

Between the rain showers this afternoon I was able to have another go at this problem.

I put two batteries in the starting circuit that I know are fully charged and attempted to turn over the engine without success. However I did hear a relay clicking when turned to start - I kept at it and after about 30 secs the engine turned over.

So it would seem the issue was a combination of poor battery power and some moisture on the contacts in the relay. There was not enough oomph in the starter batteries to make the relay click previously so decent batteries seem to have made the difference.

I will need to get my starter batteries to auto elec for checking and knowing my luck spend more money on batteries.

Thanks the help and comments

Garry

[101RRS]

After a couple of charging cycles on a smart charger I have all batteries have recovered and producing the goods.

The 101 has been off the road replacing the water pump, the coolant hoses, including the little thermostat bypass hose that is hidden away in the valley behind the water pump. This is what had been leaking an causing my coolant loss. I also took the opportunity to install a TM2 combo the monitor engine metal temp and any water loss.

This week I finallly got everything back together and went for a long test drive yesterday. All seemed to go well - the TM2 stayed on 70 degrees while the water temp gauge was on 82. The sensor for the TM2 is at the front of the engine so gets additional cooling from the fan - I will move the sensor to a bolt in the engine valley so that temps better reflect what is going on.

When I got back home unfortunately coolant was leaking from the bottom of the radiator - bummer - I have a spare new radiator and considered putting it in but thought the old one was OK - so today I put in the new one - 20 minutes to get out - 4 hours to get back in - mainly issues getting mounting holes lined up.

Reconnected everything all up and filled with coolant - guess what - coolant leak - but this time was from the lower hose up near the water pump - bugger the hose is against the 24v alternator drive belts which have abraded through the hose (guess why the previous hose was braided). It looks like when hot, coolant was squirting over to the radiator making it look as it was leaking. Oh well at least I know the radiator is good and the old one was getting on.

Here is the hose in place from underneath
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/hose.jpg

The hose with the bit missing
http://i42.photobucket.com/albums/e334/gazzz21/IMG_01381.jpg


I doubt I will find a braided hose tomorrow so I will just get something from Super Crap and make it just a bit longer so it clears the alternator drive belt.

Garry

[drifter]

It will be good to see that coolant/overheating problem fixed once and for all. I felt quite guilty that time I got you to drive over to Toads with a carby and then found you on the side of the road on the way home.

[101RRS]

All fixed all going well - but I wished the people who design land rovers should have to work on them.

Managed to get the bottom radiator hose OK but the clamp up on the water pump end was impossible to get up there and do up. So to clear the way the lidler pulley for the alternator had to come off to make room to hold the clamp in place while it was done up.

Any way - now new water pumo, hoses, and radiator so hopefully the coolant system will be good for a while now.

The test will be some 4wding near home tomorrow with the local club.

Garry

[101RRS]

Truck ran great - as usual a bit hot inside - temp was 30 degrees with the hood rolled up and outside temp 20.

On very long steep downhill runs the TM2 Combo Low Water alarm comes on so maybe there is an air pocket still in there. Even forded an moderate sized creek without it stopping.

Main problem was that after driving the RRS around I forget to use the clutch pedal from time to time (seniors moment?) and I miss the dual climate control - and oh and the power steering - oh and the soft suspension - oh and the comfy seats.

At least the blackberry bushes do not worry the 101 - I definitely do not want the RRS near the blackberrys.

So the 101 is back on the road and running well:).

Garry

[drifter]

Top news!


Even forded an moderate sized creek without it stopping.


Even better news :D