Puma Suspension

[jake]

G'day Everyone,

Starting to do some research, can members please advise what suspension have you fitted to your 110 Puma Defender - Springs and Shocks. Are you happy with the fit.
Interested vehciles used for doing major trips such as high country or outback back and towing etc.


Glen

[grover7488]

good call Jake :twobeers:

I'll be watching with interest :cool:

[one_iota]

Some indication of setup use: i.e. for towing, offroad, extensive corrugated road driving and the like would be helpful as well. :)

[Benny_IIA]

G'day Everyone,

Starting to do some research, can members please advise what suspension have you fitted to your 110 Puma Defender - Springs and Shocks. Are you happy with the fit.

Glen

I'm not a puma owner (td5)

From what I have read your best option is LR HD (same as 130) Fronts and leave the rears alone, unless you want some thing stiffer. Then go HD rears as well.

then get a set of good shocks, Koni or bilstein


If you want

[dullbird]

I have original springs in the back with firestone air bags to help with the towing. I have 130 HD springs in the front to accommodate winch and bar.

and I have Terrafirma 2+ big bore expeidition shocks all round....although could do without the 2+ but that was all on offer at the time

[JohnR]

King Spring 2" lift. Although with all the extra's it only went up about 28mm but I was happy with that.
OME LTR Shock's
Devon 4x4 & PSimpson relocating cones, shock towers and spring retainers
Devon 4x4 double Cardon front prop shaft (to avoid bind on the uni at the front of the transfer case) This can cause serious issues if the uni binds.
HD Cranked rear trailing arms.

We tow a fairly heavy off road camper.
It's the wifes everyday drive, we do 4wds parks and try to tackly most of the tricky tracks. We have done the Cape, The high country and plan on the Simpson soon. We also use it to tow a race car to regular race meetings.
84,000kms and still going strong :)

Cheers,

[dmdigital]

Koni Raid 90 series shocks front and rear.
Rear springs are standard but with polyairs added
Front springs ar LR HD springs as I have a bullbar and winch
Round Australia towing a Kamper trailer
Lots of dirt track driving.

[Allan]

Same as Dullbird but King HD's and relocation cones in the rear as the draew system and fridge slide are a load on rear springs when full of gear and food.

Allan

[jake]

Are the King's HD standard ride height.

Jake

[Allan]

Are the King's HD standard ride height.

Jake

They push it up a little higher but only about an inch. The springs are shorter than the standard LR ones and dislocate often. Not reall happy with them but will have to do until new year.

Allan

[rewi69]

They push it up a little higher but only about an inch. The springs are shorter than the standard LR ones and dislocate often. Not reall happy with them but will have to do until new year.

Allan
Hi Allan

Looking into what springs to get for my heavily loaded Puma 110 too.

If you are not happy with the King HD springs as they are too short what would you try instead?
Thanks
Richard

[MLD]

Koni Raid 90 series shocks front and rear.
Rear springs are standard but with polyairs added
Front springs ar LR HD springs as I have a bullbar and winch


the list of dmdigital's equipment is all you need. Save yourself lots of headaches & money and replicate this set up. Great shocks. Comfortable front coils and the rear is adjustable to your load demand. Don't be sucked into thinking that the aftermarket stuff is better. It's not. If you want long travel suspension then aftermarket is the only option. If your happy with the standard height, stick with the factory coils. Buy some height with taller tyres and buy traction with lockers.

my 2 cents. MLD

[MrLandy]

Standard Defender 110 springs front and rear.
ARB bullbar, no winch. Considering HD 130 fronts, but standards are doing well.
Standard ride height best for stability, ride, low centre of gravity, driveline durability.

KONI Raid Shocks. Fantastic, absolutely worth the money.
Extensive use on severe corrugated desert roads and highway use over 20,000km so far. Brilliant. (Original shocks lasted 5000km and only one trip up the Strezlecki Track).

[Iain_B]

Shocks:

I have the Koni 90 Raids front and rear. The Rear Raids have a bit of extra rebound when going over speed bumps, but they are still going strong after 60,000km. They survived the Anne Beadell track's massive corrugations, the Central Arnhem Road up to Gove, and right across the Savannah Way and never faded even once on our 20,000km trip around Australia. The OEM shocks are better around town but the Konis are good on dirt roads with a heavy load.

Springs:

Rear: Standard Rear Spring with air bags inside - work great. I got the ones for the Nissan Patrol from Firestone in the US, half the price of the local ones.

Front: The OEM front springs would hit the bumps stops on mine - even brand new ones ( Winch/ Bullbar /Roll cage makes it a bit heavier than normal). I had the HD King Springs, but did not like them, too firm for my taste. Based on the ratings of the springs, I tried the 300Tdi Discovery Rear Springs. The Green/Brown marked ones are the right length and have worked great for me, they keep the front up at exactly the OEM height even with all the extra weight I have on mine. Best of all, Discovery rear springs are cheap, most Series 1 Discovery owners have some out the back as they have replaced them with higher lift springs- and I had a spare set from my own Discovery so cost me nothing.

[Chops]

With the bull bar and winch on the front of mine, I've thought about this a fair bit, as in getting the 130 front springs.
The rear on mines fine, even when I had the canopy/RTT/roof rack on, but now its all gone I certainly wont be doing anything there.
We tow the camper now, and when thats sorted with its final weight, I may rethink whats going on there at the rear.

[rewi69]

Koni Raid 90 series shocks front and rear.
Rear springs are standard but with polyairs added
Front springs ar LR HD springs as I have a bullbar and winch
Round Australia towing a Kamper trailer
Lots of dirt track driving.

I like the sound of this.
I have had King springs fitted and have problems with bottoming out on big corrugations and deep sand bumps. My fully loaded axel weights are:

Front: 1160
Rear: 1800

Can I ask do you guys know your axel weights when fully loaded with this setup?
And do you get any bottoming out - on big corrugations or in deep sand tracks where you have to use some momentum to get up dunes for example?

Richard

[Iain_B]

I took mine over a weigh bridge before we left, let's just say we were full loaded :eek:

Front 1.35
Rear 1.95

We added another 80kg of fuel when crossing the Anne Beadel, and never bottomed out with my spring set-up. Pumping up the rear air springs made it look level.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1008.jpg

[DazzaTD5]

Ive been fitting Terrafirma suspension gear to the Defender puma for quite a few years now and have been very happy (as has customers) with the results in both ride quality, load bearing and lasting.

The below pics on the Defenders are constant load, long travel setup, some with a few other tweaks, as most owners are fitting a lot of other cool gear and use a Defender for its intended purpose (if there is such a thing).

Some good pics here...
Land Rover TD5 (http://aztech4x4.com.au/land_rover_td5_15.html)
LAND ROVER & JEEP SUSPENSION SYSTEMS | Brakes & Suspension | Gumtree Australia Belmont Area - Rivervale | 1079182019 (http://www.gumtree.com.au/s-ad/rivervale/brakes-suspension/land-rover-jeep-suspension-systems/1079182019)


OBVIOUSLY ....my opinion is going to be biased as I sell and fit.... so take it as you will

Regards
Daz

[PAT303]

I took mine over a weigh bridge before we left, let's just say we were full loaded :eek:

Front 1.35
Rear 1.95

We added another 80kg of fuel when crossing the Anne Beadel, and never bottomed out with my spring set-up. Pumping up the rear air springs made it look level.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/07/1008.jpg

Didn't look like that both times I tried to do it :angel:,it's amazingly difficult to traverse when theirs an inland lake the size of Sydney harbour between each dune :o. Pat

[DiscoMick]

the list of dmdigital's equipment is all you need. Save yourself lots of headaches & money and replicate this set up. Great shocks. Comfortable front coils and the rear is adjustable to your load demand. Don't be sucked into thinking that the aftermarket stuff is better. It's not. If you want long travel suspension then aftermarket is the only option. If your happy with the standard height, stick with the factory coils. Buy some height with taller tyres and buy traction with lockers.

my 2 cents. MLD

I just wondered if people still think that LR 130 HD front springs, standard rear springs with airbags and Koni Raid shocks all round is still the best value for money option. Our Defender is a bit nose down with an ARB bullbar and Ironman winch. The rear has drawers and sometimes a fridge. We tow a camper trailer and are into touring, not rock climbing. The rear doesn't seem to drop, even with the camper attached. The idea of rear airbags, front 130 springs and better shocks is appealing. I was considering a full Terrafirma Pro Sport setup, but I see no need to lift the vehicle, so would be happy with standard height with some upgrading. What do you think? Any idea of cost?

Sent from my GT-P5210 using AULRO mobile app

[MrLandy]

Definitely the way to go DiscoMick. No need to lift. Low centre of gravity and standard driveline geometry is more important than even more clearance IMO. You could go for 50mm taller rear springs instead of airbags for simplicity when fully loaded, but you'd need to swap them out when not fully loaded I reckon.

I just have standard rears (no airbags) and Koni raids, but then I travel relatively light because it's better for ride, handling, fuel economy, braking, and less strain on all parts. Koni's are pricey but you'll never need new shocks again, they are bulletproof and can also be re-built.

Cheers

[stewie110]

I have original springs in the back with firestone air bags to help with the towing. I have 130 HD springs in the front to accommodate winch and bar.

and I have Terrafirma 2+ big bore expeidition shocks all round....although could do without the 2+ but that was all on offer at the time

How are you finding the terraffirma shocks?

I have done two big outback trips in the last 4 years and on both trips people who had the Terrafirma shocks have had various failures after many hours of hard corrugations. I wonder if those failures are down to poor installation or product quality problems.

[Surrufus]

I've had a mate's father recommend the OME LTRs, he says that they've been in his TD5 since the factory shocks died at about 10,000 and it's done almost 300k ( or maybe even more ) now, but I can't seem to find new LTRs for my PUMA, is this because they're discontinued? :confused:
I'm inclined to take his advice seriously because he's a long time Defender owner ( at least 3 of them ) and does serious country and off-road driving touring and all sorts, and he's not afraid to tackle the hard yards ( he rolled the Defender prior to his current TD5, winched it upright again and kept on going ).

I've heard nothing but good things about the Koni Raid, with their large bore and high internal volume, they'd make an awesome shock for corrugations, part of me is looking for an external reservoir, but these might be the exception, however they are a hell of a investment.

One of my good mates runs Bilstein shocks in all of his 4wds, but I think his opinion is that they're cheap enough to replace when they break :p


But in all seriousness... are the OME LTRs discontinued?

[DiscoMick]

Yes, Konis and Bilsteins both have good reputations.
Our Disco had TJM XGS shocks and springs and they were fine despite being flogged about for a long time. The BIL likes Tough Dogs.
As a non-expert, the issue for me is to make sure I get shocks with valving that matches the springs. How do I predict what would be right? Its a bit of a mystery to me.
I suppose the other question is whether the standard shocks need to be changed at all or are actually good enough for sustained hard use, if the vehicle remains at standard height. Could just put the130 HD springs in the front, maybe add rear airbags and keep the standard shocks? Would that work long-term?

[Chenz]

On my 130 Puma with the Trayon I upgraded my suspension to twin Bilstien shocks, King Springs and airbag inserts in the springs.

When unloaded and the Trayon off I let the airbags right down and as I increase the load from Trayon on, me going away load all the way up to SWMBO fully loaded, I up the bags. I can go up to 40psi which is pretty hard.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2015/11/485.jpg

This has made an incredible difference to the ride and handling both on and off road. Reducing body roll and bouncing when in dunes or lumpy off road conditions

[MrLandy]

I made the mistake of replacing seemingly worn out Koni's with OME's a long time ago, when I should have had the Koni's rebuilt. OME's are cheaply built rubbish IMO. Get Koni's or Bilsteins.

[DiscoMick]

I notice in the latest Land Rover Owner International they were returning their 90 to standard height for competition so they fitted front springs which were the same rating as the standard rear springs, which are normally rated higher than the fronts. Then they added higher rated rears.
I think the fronts they fitted to the 90 might have been the same as the fronts on the 130, although it didn't say so.
So I suppose in my case that reinforces the idea that the fronts can simply be uprated to the same rating as the rears, and then I can add airbags to the rears if necessary.
Sounds like a cost-effective option.
Then I could separately decide if the standard shocks need upgrading.
It's great to have a vehicle which is so capable as standard that you have a choice of not even upgrading the suspension at all.

[MLD]

So I suppose in my case that reinforces the idea that the fronts can simply be uprated to the same rating as the rears, and then I can add airbags to the rears if necessary.


The front of a 110 is +/- 180 lbs/in and rear +/- 300 lbs/in
The front of a 130 is +/- 225 lbs/in and rear is +/- 420 lbs/in

For a 110 If you increase the front rate to the same as your rear rate you will be very displeased about the harshness of the ride. I had 280lbs/in coils and I could throw a lifted Dfender 130 into corners as if it was a sedan.

The D90 uses the same rear coils as the RRC and D1 so they are not compatible to a 110. Also the LRO D90 is a product of promo for Britpart so take it with a grain of salt.

You are over thinking it. Fit D130 or D110HD coils to the front. Air bags to the rear. Leave the shocks as is until you know what you need and if traction is a problem invest in a rear locker.

MLD

[DiscoMick]

The front of a 110 is +/- 180 lbs/in and rear +/- 300 lbs/in
The front of a 130 is +/- 225 lbs/in and rear is +/- 420 lbs/in

For a 110 If you increase the front rate to the same as your rear rate you will be very displeased about the harshness of the ride. I had 280lbs/in coils and I could throw a lifted Dfender 130 into corners as if it was a sedan.

The D90 uses the same rear coils as the RRC and D1 so they are not compatible to a 110. Also the LRO D90 is a product of promo for Britpart so take it with a grain of salt.

You are over thinking it. Fit D130 or D110HD coils to the front. Air bags to the rear. Leave the shocks as is until you know what you need and if traction is a problem invest in a rear locker.

MLD

Yes, I agree. As you say, I was thinking 225s in the front like a 130 would be about right. Airbags are an option for the rear, but at the moment the rear doesn't drop with the camper trailer attached, so I'll probably defer the airbags and do other things.
Re. the shocks, the standard ones are actually quite thick. I suppose after 70,000 kms they might be losing a bit of action, but they seem OK.