Detroit rear locker....am i crazy???

[moorey]

Recently had truetrack fitted to front and detroit 'no spin' to rear on my old 130 fender.....LOVE the capability, BUT...!!!!!!

Rear only works as a locker when I have centre diff engaged, which makes no sense to me. Why wouldn't it always engage, and how would the the centre diff lock make a scrap of difference on a detroit?

I know im no rocket scientist, but this goes against all the logic I can muster in my small brain:confused:

[isuzutoo-eh]

Who told you it doesn't work all the time?
The only truth in what you have been told is it won't work to its fullest if CDL isn't engaged as if the front loses traction, the drive will go to the front, not be split with the rear.

[PhilipA]

Er, didn't you read the manual?
Regards Philip A

[moorey]

Who told you it doesn't work all the time?
The only truth in what you have been told is it won't work to its fullest if CDL isn't engaged as if the front loses traction, the drive will go to the front, not be split with the rear.
A mate was following me up a steep climb that I was struggling with and told me that only one rear was turning. I don't see what CDL would do as the detroit is an independant unit that should lock up as soon as any spin occurs.....:confused:

[moorey]

Er, didn't you read the manual?
Regards Philip A
Thats a change from 'google is you friend', i guess:p
Have I read the manual cover to cover? no.:angel:
Do i think I know the basics of how it functions? yes:angel:

If it detects wheel spin, it automatically locks (this is the detroit no spin rear i'm talking about, not the true track front....the TT works more like a LSD and transfers power to the spinning wheel, yes?)

What point do you think i am missing, Phil?

[jazzaD1]

it shouldnt be much of a problem considering IMO the CDL should always be locked when offroad, but each to their own

i plan on doing this swap one day also, so its interesting to know

[PhilipA]

Well your understanding of how it works.

It is locked ALL THE TIME until it detects one wheel moving more slowly . It unlocks the wheel moving more slowly such as going through a corner when it unlocks the inner wheel.
I you read teh manual you will see the manual gives many warnings because of this and this is why it will remain locked when both wheels are on a slippery surface, even if you want to turn.
AND why the two tyres must be the same diameter and so on and so on.
Regards Philip A
BTW , I did have one for 10 years in my 77 RRC before they were fashionable. Only changed to a Maxi Drive because the maxi is more civilised in my 92 RRC.

[moorey]

Well your understanding of how it works.

It is locked ALL THE TIME until it detects one wheel moving more slowly . It unlocks the wheel moving more slowly such as going through a corner when it unlocks the inner wheel.
I you read teh manual you will see the manual gives many warnings because of this and this is why it will remain locked when both wheels are on a slippery surface, even if you want to turn.
AND why the two tyres must be the same diameter and so on and so on.
Regards Philip A
....ok, thanks for straightening that up for me, but how does all of this relate to the CDL being in or out ?:confused:

[moorey]

....oh, and 'fashionable' had nothing to do with it.....$500 per end was the incentive:p

[bee utey]

A mate was following me up a steep climb that I was struggling with and told me that only one rear was turning. I don't see what CDL would do as the detroit is an independant unit that should lock up as soon as any spin occurs.....:confused:
The Detroit can lock all it likes but without the CDL engaged there is no way ANY useful torque can be applied to the rear axle when the front axle is up in the air under very little load. With the CDL engaged the rear axle gets up to 100% of the torque when the front is spinning uselessly. Not having the CDL on for a steep hill is like breaking the front tailshaft!

[PhilipA]

Well, if you knew that it remained locked all the time you could have told your mate he was wrong. That although it maybe was spitting a couple of rocks out of one side it was locked.

The reason for your difficulty was that ALL the power was being delivered to the front if the CDL was unlocked because the CDL is an OPEN diff, and if the CDL was locked then you were getting wheelspin on all the wheels.( well both back and one front)
Regards Philip A
I wasn't having a go re unfashionable but 20 years ago nobody fitted them. I was one of the first. And I should have said the centre diff is an OPEN diff not CDL.

[moorey]

The Detroit can lock all it likes but without the CDL engaged there is no way ANY useful torque can be applied to the rear axle when the front axle is up in the air under very little load. With the CDL engaged the rear axle gets up to 100% of the torque when the front is spinning uselessly. Not having the CDL on for a steep hill is like breaking the front tailshaft!
...again....this relates to the detroit rear locking up, HOW?:confused:

[PhilipA]

BTW, my experience suggests that you will find the bearings get a lot harder time with a Detroit. I had to have my carriers changed within 20KK or so. Also the bushes in the rear were worn much more quickly, I guess due to the extra torque going through all the time.

I also did standard axles very quickly and bought Jacmacs about 19 years ago!! I twisted both standard rears 1/4- 1/2 turn in the Nissan Trials.

I once had an interesting trip from Wannaring to Bourke after 3 inches of rain, when most of the trip was spent sideways as the rear followed the slope of the road due to both wheels spinning.
BUT I loved the detroit except mine was an "interim" soft locker which was better than the old clunker but not as good/quiet as they are now and I had heard great (true)things about the maxi.
Regards Philip A

[PhilipA]

...again....this relates to the detroit rear locking up, HOW?

No it doesn't.
The rear is locked. BUT you are going nowhere because all the power is going to the front. The rear is just sitting there with no power to it. As if you were in a front wheel drive car.
Regards Philip A

[moorey]

Well, if you knew that it remained locked all the time you could have told your mate he was wrong. That although it maybe was spitting a couple of rocks out of one side it was locked.

The reason for your difficulty was that ALL the power was being delivered to the front if the CDL was unlocked because the CDL is an OPEN diff, and if the CDL was locked then you were getting wheelspin on all the wheels.( well both back and one front)
Regards Philip A
I wasn't having a go re unfashionable but 20 years ago nobody fitted them. I was one of the first. And I should have said the centre diff is an OPEN diff not CDL.
It definitely spun only one rear wheel....witnessed on a few attampts until the CDL was engaged. I'm obviously a moron, bacause I just don't understand how the CDL would change anything:(
The rear should be an independant entity, or why would people fit them to 2wd's and race cars etc?:confused:

[cols110]

If only 1 rear wheel was turning you either have a problem with the locker or a snapped shaft. It is not possible for only 1 wheel to turn if it is working OK.

CDL is a different issue totally, if you were suffering traction problems, why was your CDL not locked, it should be the first thing you engage before attempting any problem climbs.

[bee utey]

It definitely spun only one rear wheel....witnessed on a few attampts until the CDL was engaged. I'm obviously a moron, bacause I just don't understand how the CDL would change anything:(
The rear should be an independant entity, or why would people fit them to 2wd's and race cars etc?:confused:

Just think for a minute, please. Your centre diff is like any open wheel diff. If there is no load on one side there is no way power will flow to the other. The lowest loaded side just goes spinny spinny spinny. There is NO DIRECT CONNECTION from your gearbox to the rear axle UNLESS YOU ENGAGE THE CDL. As I said, without it engaged it is like a broken front shaft. Just stop thinking too hard about it and engage the CDL for steep track work.:)

[moorey]

If only 1 rear wheel was turning you either have a problem with the locker or a snapped shaft. It is not possible for only 1 wheel to turn if it is working OK.
No snapped shaft....locked up fine when CDL engaged.

CDL is a different issue totally, if you were suffering traction problems, why was your CDL not locked, it should be the first thing you engage before attempting any problem climbs.
Seeing how it would go first without engaging. Don't you ever try lines without engaging all your big guns, eg in 2wd (if not driving a landy), without lockers engaged or without CDL in?

[isuzutoo-eh]

Hi Moorey,
The centre diff isn't very big, and thus not particularly strong, so locking it protects it somewhat.
Personally I lock it nearly as soon as I leave the blacktop. Others I have driven with engage CDL only when an obstacle that may cause wheelspin is encountered. The Series Landies automatically select 4wd when you select low range. To each their own but try not to damage the track too much experimenting ;)

[moorey]

OK, so i have a small brain and am overthinking it all....but I can't accept/understand the fact that SOME power is getting to rear (turning one wheel), therefore detroit should be locking up when losing traction, regardless of CDL:(

[spudboy]

Well Moorey - I'm with you on this one. The CDL should not be part of the equation. If you are not going around a corner, then the rear diff should be locked - seems like that's what a locking diff should do. If one rear wheel is spinning, then why isn't the other one. Otherwise, it's not much of a locker.....

[bee utey]

OK, so i have a small brain and am overthinking it all....but I can't accept/understand the fact that SOME power is getting to rear (turning one wheel), therefore detroit should be locking up when losing traction, regardless of CDL:(
If your Detroit locker locked up on any light application of power you couldn't drive around a corner without the inside wheel leaving rubber on the road. It will lock when a threshhold is reached and you won't while your front axle is spinning gently. That's why when you engage the CDL there is then enough torque to lock the Detroit.

[101RRS]

...again....this relates to the detroit rear locking up, HOW?:confused:

It has to do with the detroit locking up as IT IS LOCKED ALL THE TIME - it should not be called a locker but is an unlocker.

I would say as others have that the detroit was locked as it should be but your`CDL was not locked so drive was going to the front with the rear freewheeling.

Jack your car up and test - move one rear wheel and the other rear wheel will also move in the same direction.

Garry

[rar110]

....oh, and 'fashionable' had nothing to do with it.....$500 per end was the incentive:p

Great price, can you pm the details?

[rovercare]

It needs the torque applied to the pinion and the resistance from the wheels, well, one wheel to operate correctly, so with the centre diff it wont function correctly

Also its very foolish to drive with wheel spin with the centre diff unlocked, it very quickly damages the cross pin and thrust washers in the centre diff, its rapid deterioration is due to the gear ratio's in the front and rear diffs, which means slipping a propshaft see's the centre diff side gears spinning way to fast and the other stationary

So to use your wordsm if you continue to do it, you are a moron:)

[moorey]

Great price, can you pm the details?
No secret..... look up http://lucky8llc.com/ and buy when aussie dollar is strong;)

Cheap postage (if getting 2, ask to place as separate orders to avoid duty), and great to deal with.:cool:

[cols110]

Seeing how it would go first without engaging. Don't you ever try lines without engaging all your big guns, eg in 2wd (if not driving a landy), without lockers engaged or without CDL in?

No never, I always engage the CDL if in doubt, I hate spinning wheels and scrambling up somewhere I can drive easily with everything locked up.

I also have a detroit rear and an ARB front, I try to not use my front locker until needed to save the CV joints etc, but the the CDL comes in and out all the time, if in doubt it is in end of story. I don't believe in being a hero attempting a climb without my CDL engaged, I don't see the point.

[mark2]

It needs the torque applied to the pinion and the resistance from the wheels, well, one wheel to operate correctly, so with the centre diff it wont function correctly

Also its very foolish to drive with wheel spin with the centre diff unlocked, it very quickly damages the cross pin and thrust washers in the centre diff, its rapid deterioration is due to the gear ratio's in the front and rear diffs, which means slipping a propshaft see's the centre diff side gears spinning way to fast and the other stationary

So to use your wordsm if you continue to do it, you are a moron:)

I recently destroyed my center diff after making two full-noise attempts at a steep slippery hill with the CD unlocked. I normally always lock it whenever wheel spin is likely but on this occasion I had a mental lapse......(I also have a rear Detroit FWIW)

[klappers]

The Detroit can lock all it likes but without the CDL engaged there is no way ANY useful torque can be applied to the rear axle when the front axle is up in the air under very little load. With the CDL engaged the rear axle gets up to 100% of the torque when the front is spinning uselessly. Not having the CDL on for a steep hill is like breaking the front tailshaft!

Kinda, the center diff will slip without the CDL engaged meaning that all of the drive will go to the wheels with least resistance front and rear. When CDL is engaged, there will be a 50 50 split of drive front and rear regardless, hence why it is call a center diff lock. Which brings us to the point of your little dilemma. I would not expect a Detroit to work without CDL very "well" off road in "low traction" terrain (road is high traction). You have a constant four wheel drive with three differentials, all open (without CDL and standard diffs). That's why the result would be different in say a Patrol, which has a chain driven transfer, as opposed to our differentially driven transfer. In a Patrol, the drive is split all the time 50/50, so they dont have this "problem" of one wheel turning when in the sand.

I would have thought that best practice would be to lock the transfer as soon as you get off the black stuff anyway.

[bee utey]

When CDL is engaged, there will be a 50 50 split of drive front and rear regardless, hence why it is call a center diff lock.

50/50 only when all the wheels have full traction. If the front wheels are in the air then up to 100% of the torque goes to the back. You can't supply torque to wheels without traction!! Only their average rotation speed will match the back. With all 3 diffs locked you could get nearly 100% of torque supplied to one single half shaft, which is why lockers can result in axles going BANG!!!

:D:D:D

[wagoo]

Well your understanding of how it works.

It is locked ALL THE TIME until it detects one wheel moving more slowly . It unlocks the wheel moving more slowly such as going through a corner when it unlocks the inner wheel.
RRC.

Not quite correct. It is the outer faster turning wheel that unlocks when making a turn.
I once had a series Landy with detroit no spin Salisburies front and rear, and the front would occasionally drive only one wheel at inconvenient times, but it was a very high mileage well worn unit. The OPs Locker is presumably a new one, and if it definately only powers one wheel and there isn't a broken halfshaft or stripped drive flange(not uncommon on Defenders) there is something wrong with it, or it was incorrectly fitted. From memory there is a ''master'' tooth on each side of the central driver that must be correctly aligned with its mating annular ring for the unit to work correctly.A bent axle housing or loose wheel bearings could also cause the Detroit side gear to bind on its splines so that it doesn't always slide back properly into engagement after making a turn.
Failure to lock the centre diff for low traction conditions can sometimes cause the spider gears to friction weld themselves to the cross shafts, giving a limited slip or locked diff effect, until something breaks, so it's not advisable to see how far you can go at offroad obstacles with the CDL disengaged. while we are at it ARB airlockers are also prone to friction welding if disengaged in conditions that will induce individual wheel spin.
Wagoo.
Edit. I'm betting on a stripped rear axle driveflange.Reason, centre diff unlocked, vehicle struggles or stops on low traction climb,Mate behind observing power going to only one rear wheel, but may not be able to see that the front wheels aren't spinning either. Centre diff locked,vehicle proceeds because power now goes to front wheels and the one rear wheel with intact halfshaft/driveflange.

[awabbit6]

I think what is being missed here is that one wheel on an axle that has a Detroit Locker fitted was observed to be spinning.

Irrespective of CDL, I can't understand how that can occur with a traditional Detroit locker.
Even with a mechanical locker that responds to wheel speed difference, I would expect the diff to lock up if there is significant wheel spin.

What type of locker have you fitted?

[dullbird]

I think what is being missed here is that one wheel on an axle that has a Detroit Locker fitted was observed to be spinning.

Irrespective of CDL, I can't understand how that can occur with a traditional Detroit locker.
Even with a mechanical locker that responds to wheel speed difference, I would expect the diff to lock up if there is significant wheel spin.

What type of locker have you fitted?


He has fitted a detroit automatic locker... and I dont know anything about lockers but I also agree doesn't make sense that one wheel would be spinning on a detroit assuming that he was in a straight line.

My theory

its not working

or

you have fitted a tru trac to the rear not a locker:D

[awabbit6]

50/50 only when all the wheels have full traction. If the front wheels are in the air then up to 100% of the torque goes to the back. You can't supply torque to wheels without traction!! Only their average rotation speed will match the back. With all 3 diffs locked you could get nearly 100% of torque supplied to one single half shaft, which is why lockers can result in axles going BANG!!!

:D:D:D

Without turning this into a Physics argument, I think we are confusing engine torque with axle load. By the above argument, an engine that is not driving anything delivers no torque ...

If we think in terms of load then a vehicle that has all wheels on the ground (with equal traction and traveling at a constant speed) has an even load on each wheel (25%). With all diffs locked, when one pair of axles (eg front) are in the air, then all (100%) of the load is on the other pair of axles (rear). If only one wheel has traction (again all diffs locked) then all of the load is through one axle. It is the application of engine torque through this axle to accelerate the vehicle (or even maintain speed) that can cause a potential failure of the axle.

[awabbit6]

He has fitted a detroit automatic locker... and I dont know anything about lockers but I also agree doesn't make sense that one wheel would be spinning on a detroit assuming that he was in a straight line.

My theory

its not working

or

you have fitted a tru trac to the rear not a locker:D

So it works like this ...

YouTube - Eaton Mechanical Locking Differential

If one wheel is spinning then there should be a point at which the diff locks.

I think more testing is necessary to determine exactly what it is (or isn't) doing.

[djam1]

No it works like this

YouTube - Detroit Locker

[400HPONGAS]

Klappers , which model Patrol has this CDL you claim ? I always thought they were just your standard part time setup , and with out the tcase selected into 4WD then you sent 100% of the torque to rear , which without a locker means only one wheel anyway . This "Chain" thing is nothing more than a method of tranferring drive to high/low gear train and makes no difference . The Steyr Transfer case in the LR3/4 will really blow your mind if you cant understand the diffrence between full-time (constant) 4WD and Part time 4WD . THe whole "Four wheell drive" concept is a furphy as without Crossaxle diff locking . its still only a 2 wheel drive (1 at the front and 1 at the rear )
Thanks to djam1 , seems that there are alot of ill-informed people who dont know what a detroit lockers is . whats next a quaiffe worm and wheel ?

[Ian Ashcroft]

Hi I think PhilipA has it backwards, its the outer wheel that releases ie the faster wheel, not the slower wheel. All I can think of he is in shock over the cricket! As stated it is an unlocker and allows the faster wheel to free wheel. Surprised Bill, Agrover, has not jumped in on this one. Ian Ashcroft

[wagoo]

. Surprised Bill, Agrover, has not jumped in on this one. Ian Ashcroft

Thanks Ian, I actually have done so on post 31.You didn't recognise me because I have refrained from my usual criticisms of No Spins so as to address the OPs original question.
Would you care to share your qualified knowledge with the crew here on why you stopped selling Detroit Lockers? Seems that all the reliability, breakage and warranty issues experienced in both the UK and USA hasn't yet filtered through over here to OZ.

Loving the cricket.
Wagoo.

[PhilipA]

Hi I think PhilipA has it backwards, its the outer wheel that releases ie the faster wheel, not the slower wheel.

Yes you are correct. I didn't go back to the manual, and it has been 10 years since I had one ( and 20 years since it was fitted) but I was trying to explain the principle of it being locked all the time and only releasing when there is a speed difference, as opposed to the statement that it locks with wheelspin.
Regards Philip A

[101 Ron]

I have been running a detroit in the rear of my 101 landy and a ARB locker in the front.
The 101 runs the constant 4WD set up of a early range rover (lt95).
The transfercase set up has nothing to do with the operation of a detroit locker.
If both axle wheels are not locked the detroit is not working or it is not a detroit fitted.
I swear by the Detroit in a constant 4wd system and if I could one fitted to the front of my Landrover instead of the ARB I would have.
I still find it interesting that so many people do not understand the operation of a detroit, or spread incorrect information about them.
A interesting thing is the RFS cat one tankers (Isusu) and they run a detroit as standard and all the different drivers of these trucks with many different levels of experience never pick up the fact the detroit is fitted.
This is in apart time system and the trucks are in a constant loaded condition and none of the so called round about faults of the detroit are ever noticed.

[djam1]

Thanks Ian, I actually have done so on post 31.You didn't recognise me because I have refrained from my usual criticisms of No Spins so as to address the OPs original question.
Would you care to share your qualified knowledge with the crew here on why you stopped selling Detroit Lockers? Seems that all the reliability, breakage and warranty issues experienced in both the UK and USA hasn't yet filtered through over here to OZ.

Loving the cricket.
Wagoo.

I too would be interested in what Ian has to say I put a detroit in some years ago.
After reading some of Bills comments on them on another forum and knowing that Ian had stopped selling them I presumed I did the wrong thing.
So much so that I bought another one as a spare waiting for the day that it breaks and hoping it doesnt take the crownwheel and pinion with it.

Thus far that day hasnt come and I have had no issues with the detroit although I must admit I havent pulled it out to have a look at the levels of wear.

[spudboy]

Thanks Ian, I actually have done so on post 31.You didn't recognise me because I have refrained from my usual criticisms of No Spins so as to address the OPs original question.
Would you care to share your qualified knowledge with the crew here on why you stopped selling Detroit Lockers? Seems that all the reliability, breakage and warranty issues experienced in both the UK and USA hasn't yet filtered through over here to OZ.

Loving the cricket.
Wagoo.

Would be interested to hear the story on all this (from you or from Ian).

I've just bought F & R TrueTracs for my 130, so not immediately affecting me, but I have always thought Detriot's were a respected piece of kit.

Tks
David

[wagoo]

I have been running a detroit in the rear of my 101 landy and a ARB locker in the front.
The 101 runs the constant 4WD set up of a early range rover (lt95).
The transfercase set up has nothing to do with the operation of a detroit locker.
If both axle wheels are not locked the detroit is not working or it is not a detroit fitted.
I swear by the Detroit in a constant 4wd system and if I could one fitted to the front of my Landrover instead of the ARB I would have.
I still find it interesting that so many people do not understand the operation of a detroit, or spread incorrect information about them.
A interesting thing is the RFS cat one tankers (Isusu) and they run a detroit as standard and all the different drivers of these trucks with many different levels of experience never pick up the fact the detroit is fitted.
This is in apart time system and the trucks are in a constant loaded condition and none of the so called round about faults of the detroit are ever noticed.

Constant 4wd LandRovers have enough backlash (slop) in their drivetrain as is.Detroit No spins rely on 13 degrees of backlash built into them for their unlocking action. This additional 13 degrees at the crownwheel on a constant 4wd could be annoying for many drivers who don't practice smoothclutch operation when gear changing.
I've fitted NoSpins to many light, medium and heavy trucks over the years, and in a lot of cases they either break or the owner operators have asked for them to be removed due to handling or drivability issues, particularly on tandem drive rear bogies where hopping and skipping of the rear wheels when turning on hard surfaces was a major complaint.
Most Specialist truck axle manufacturers these days including American Eaton and Spicer offer selectable cross axle difflocks on their units. If Detroits were as vice free as you believe,why would they do so with the added complexity and driver input that selectable lockers involve?
The Isusu firetrucks have No Spins fitted i beleive because factory fitted selectable lockers are not available for their axles, or at least weren't up to the time I left the industry.
101s have very robust halfshafts. The smaller 24 spline LandRover shafts are more likely to fail, and a shaft failure has on many occasions destroyed the side gears on Detroit No Spins due to lower material specification and the slight redesign in an attempt to make them smoother in recent years.Some offroad vehicles such as log skidders and wheeled dozers use a version of the earlier No Spins which are bullet proof but coarse and noisey in operation.
Wagoo.

Edit. Ron if you are happy with your Detroit there is nothing stopping you from fitting one to the front.Just convert your transfercase to part time 4wd. Contrary to what the manual states, it's not necessary to have free wheel hubs fitted. It's when you engage 4wd in similar conditions to what PhilipA described in post 13 that the fun begins. And you haven't really experienced terror until you've tried to drive anywhere in front wheel drive after a rear diff/halfshaft/driveflange failure.

[awabbit6]

No it works like this

YouTube - Detroit Locker (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FYBOoljH-qE&feature=related)


He has fitted a detroit automatic locker...


That is what I assumed it was Djam, but Dullbird's statement suggested that it was a automatic locker hence the video I posted.

It is simply not possible for a conventional Detroit locker to allow one wheel to spin while the other does not ... unless it is broken.

[Jim621]

Well your understanding of how it works.

It is locked ALL THE TIME until it detects one wheel moving more slowly . It unlocks the wheel moving more slowly such as going through a corner when it unlocks the inner wheel.
I you read teh manual you will see the manual gives many warnings because of this and this is why it will remain locked when both wheels are on a slippery surface, even if you want to turn.
AND why the two tyres must be the same diameter and so on and so on.
Regards Philip A
BTW , I did have one for 10 years in my 77 RRC before they were fashionable. Only changed to a Maxi Drive because the maxi is more civilised in my 92 RRC.

EDIT: Sorry, didnt read the whole thread before opening my mouth....

Hi Philip,

Not trying to derail this thread, but my understanding of the detroit locker is it allows the outside wheel to 'overspin'; it does not unlock the slower wheel.

It only takes a small amount of force to disengage one of the wheels as it can be done by turning the wheel by hand (when the wheels are jacked off the ground).

Yes i have a detroit and yes i have read the manual :)

Cheers, Steve

[klappers]

Klappers , which model Patrol has this CDL you claim ? I always thought they were just your standard part time setup , and with out the tcase selected into 4WD then you sent 100% of the torque to rear , which without a locker means only one wheel anyway . This "Chain" thing is nothing more than a method of tranferring drive to high/low gear train and makes no difference . The Steyr Transfer case in the LR3/4 will really blow your mind if you cant understand the diffrence between full-time (constant) 4WD and Part time 4WD . THe whole "Four wheell drive" concept is a furphy as without Crossaxle diff locking . its still only a 2 wheel drive (1 at the front and 1 at the rear )
Thanks to djam1 , seems that there are alot of ill-informed people who dont know what a detroit lockers is . whats next a quaiffe worm and wheel ?

I never said a patrol is constant four wheel drive with CDL. I said that drive is constantly split 50/50 and there is no need for a CDL because there is no differential in the transfer.

[400HPONGAS]

Okay , could you explain when the drive is"constantly split 50/50 " then ? And then whats the difference between the Patrol in 4WD mode and a landrover with center diff locked is ? as far as "drive " is concerned and how this effects "Sand" driving .

[BigJon]

And then whats the difference between the Patrol in 4WD mode and a landrover with center diff locked is ? as far as "drive " is concerned and how this effects "Sand" driving .

No difference.

[klappers]

No difference.

correct

[dullbird]

That is what I assumed it was Djam,
but Dullbird's statement suggested that it was a automatic locker hence the video I posted.

It is simply not possible for a conventional Detroit locker to allow one wheel to spin while the other does not ... unless it is broken.

When I said automatic locker I meant it does not need the driver to engage it as it is already locked..or at least that's my understanding of it..
from what I have been told a detroit is better described as an unlocker not a locker as it is already locked. the detroit i think simply allows a differential in speed much like a normal diff (although I'm not sure but perhaps a significant load of difference in speed is needed)so the car is able to corner but when on the straight is permanently locked....I could be wrong here but I think people get similar results from welding up there rear diffs..I have heard of people doing this in the UK however I believe they wreck their tyres as the car doesn't/can't corner well

I could be talking out of my arse though and I'm sure someones fingers are burning right now to tell me so:D

[HSVRangie]

Detroit Locker.

simply put they allow no axle to turn slower than crown wheel speed.

they are locked all the time.

they allow one axle to turn faster than crown wheel speed to assist in turning. ect may make turning on slippery surface harder as there may not be enough trction/friction to unlock it.

they are great units.

centre diff has no baring onhow it works.

[33chinacars]

[QUOTE=dullbird;1400930]I could be wrong here but I think people get similar results from welding up there rear diffs..I have heard of people doing this in the UK however I believe they wreck their tyres as the car doesn't/can't corner well

That a CIG Locker as opposed to a Detroit Locker. Used a lot in speedway years ago. Some still do.

[wagoo]

[QUOTE=dullbird;1400930]

That a CIG Locker as opposed to a Detroit Locker. Used a lot in speedway years ago. Some still do.

Some take a Detroit locker and remove the unlocking cam to create a spool.
Handling is more predictable that way.
wagoo.