Slipping clutch... something simple?

[5teve]

HI Guys

The deefer has obviously made a new years resolution that isnt of benefit to me...

OK i am now having intermittent clutch slippage.. mainly after changing gear.. not in every gear... mainly 3rd and 5th if i get a bit enthusiastic on the loud pedal and it boosts hard.. it will only do it after a gear change i think and not a while after the gear change. I can tow the boat without it doing it any worse than without the boats on... and it will pull up hills with the boat on in 5th with no slippage at all....

i have had a weeping master cylinder.. but that seems to have stopped now.. so other than the clutch pressure plate etc... could anything silly like a failing master / slave not releasing very quickly cause this?

Thanks

Steve

ps 110 td5 2002 with 128k's

[Yorkshire_Jon]

From my experiences in the past a leaking master cylinder does not promote slippage, only difficulty to engage / disengage.


Ive been talking recently to clutch people / specialists about my 110 TD5 that is slipping udner hi-torque demands.

Mine isnt very bad slippage yet but is getting worse.

I recently (15,000km ago) changed the clutch cover and plate, choosing to leave the existing Dual Mass Flywheel in as it had only done 45,000km and looked and felt OK.

Apparently (the clutch specialists tell me) this was a mistake as the new clutch plate cannot 'bed in' properly and will expedite future clutch failure due to a reduced surface contact area??

Cutting a long story short, I have been told that a failing DMF will induce slippage under hi-torque conditions.

I suspect you need to prepare yourself for a clutch & DMF replacement ($$$$$).

[5teve]

yeah i am expecting the worst.. but the slippage isnt too bad at the mo... its just a reminder not to boot it too much and also an increaser of economy :D wierd how its intermittent... maybe just an adjustment... well i can hope! :)

I'm not entirely sure i would go dual mass... i would probably change over for a solid.. i do think my Dual mass is dodgy anyway as the engine is very rough at certain revs.. ie about 2400..

A friend with a 3.0l patrol has just had his DM collapse and replaced it with a solid... he cant tell the difference.. i would have said the td5 would be a smoother engine that the nissan 4cyl?

Steve

[Yorkshire_Jon]

yeah i am expecting the worst.. but the slippage isnt too bad at the mo... its just a reminder not to boot it too much and also an increaser of economy :D wierd how its intermittent... maybe just an adjustment... well i can hope! :)

I'm not entirely sure i would go dual mass... i would probably change over for a solid.. i do think my Dual mass is dodgy anyway as the engine is very rough at certain revs.. ie about 2400..

A friend with a 3.0l patrol has just had his DM collapse and replaced it with a solid... he cant tell the difference.. i would have said the td5 would be a smoother engine that the nissan 4cyl?

Steve

I guess the solid / dmf question is a matter of how much noise you are preparred to tolerate. The patrols suffer a little chatter, but it is a "little" compared to what you can expect to experience with a solid flywheel in 1 Def TD5.

For that reason I am replacing mine with a new DMF.

[Psimpson7]

I have a solid flywheel in my td5 and it is definetely noisier/rougher than with the dmf, but really only at idle, where it is quite noticeable.

Under load, or with the clutch pressed it's not really noticeable as far as I can tell.

[UNDEROVER]

I feel your pain Steve,

mine is doing nearly exactly the same thing and has done 110k. No weepage in any of the cylinders though.
What's the damage on a new clutch including the DMF? I'm expecting 2k supplied and fitted, give or take a few $.:(
Checked pedal adjustment and re-bled the system, but no change.
I guess I'd better start saving!
Is there a heavy duty clutch available? If so, is it worth the $ as I guess it would be dearer.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Having just been through this exact dilemma and spent significant time researching I can tell you this:

British Offroad:
Genuine LR Dual Mass Flywheel - $730
OE LR Clutch - $399
plus postage

Alto LR quoted me $1500 to fit, noting that this price didnt include for a DMF, but they wouldnt charge any more to fit that as well, so all up parts and labour would be $1536 + $730.

As a check on Alto's prices I called a couple of recommended LR independents in Sydney and both where very vague on the price to fit and where more expensive!!

As for a availability of an uprated clutch, if you want to keep the DMF then the answer is basically NO. If you are prepared to ditch the DMF for a solid, traditional billet style flywheel then YES you have a couple of options.

With a Solid flywheel you can:
1. buy a setup from Britpart in the UK (questionable quality & reliability)
2. Australian Clutch Services will sell you a solid flywheel and new clutch plate & cover for $1980 but when questioned about the detail they couldnt give much info.
3. Get one of 3 options from Rakeway (in the UK).

At least one other guy on here has a Rakeway clutch setup and is happy with it, plus in a few weeks I'll be running one too!

Now, I dont know the guys at Rakeway but I know of the company and there background. They have a reputation for high quality precision engineering and are well respected in the UK for there motorsport arm.

I had a LONG chat with Neale the other night about my vehicle, requirements and history. Based on their experiences with other customers Land Rovers around the world and from what I had told him he suggested the Rakway option 3 kit.

I will have to learn to get used to the additional noise / knocking but at the end of the day reliability is what I need and this (Rakeway) option appears to be the only one to fit the bill.

Rakeway costs:
Option 2: 435 GBP
Option 3: 710 GBP
Air Freight: 230 GBP

At todays rate that was $1498, compared to the cheapest OE parts I could find in Australia of $1130. Not a huge difference considering the additional longevity and reliability I can expect.

Hope thats of help.

J


I feel your pain Steve,

mine is doing nearly exactly the same thing and has done 110k. No weepage in any of the cylinders though.
What's the damage on a new clutch including the DMF? I'm expecting 2k supplied and fitted, give or take a few $.:(
Checked pedal adjustment and re-bled the system, but no change.
I guess I'd better start saving!
Is there a heavy duty clutch available? If so, is it worth the $ as I guess it would be dearer.

[Psimpson7]

To add to Jon's detailed post, I did a fair bit of reasearch into this too, and I went with Rakeway for mine. Very good to deal with.

[Brute]

My def 130 has just developed same symtons as steves 110,000km Was going to look at the Rakeway option. Anybody had any dramas with them?

Ian

[awabbit6]

My def 130 has just developed same symtons as steves 110,000km Was going to look at the Rakeway option. Anybody had any dramas with them?


I'm ringing Neale at Rakeway again tonight. My Disco has been off the road for 5 weeks while I wait for him to finish a batch of flywheels. Hopefully my kit will be on it's way this week. I'm going for an Option 2 1/2. It's an Option 2 with a heavy duty pressure plate. Option 3 isn't available at the moment as he is having trouble getting the AP pressure plate.

Sent from my HTC Desire using Tapatalk

[Yorkshire_Jon]

A quick update on my Rakeway in the Defender...

Ive done about 1000km now and I think its brilliant. Wouldnt hesitate to recommend Rakeway and their clutch/flywheel combo.

I was told it would knock and bang (by Neale), but honestly I struggle to hear it. Dont get me wrong, you can tell/feel its different, but you have to listen hard so its not a problem at all for me.

Pete, judging from the avi clip you sent me, yours is noisier - Dont know why that would be, perhaps yours has less carpet inside!?!?!?

R
Jon

[stig0000]

make sure your fuel block isent leaking,, they can drip right onto the bellhousing and leak onto the clutch makin it slip,

[Psimpson7]

Pete, judging from the avi clip you sent me, yours is noisier - Dont know why that would be, perhaps yours has less carpet inside!?!?!?



Ji Jon,

:D. it doest have any ;)

I am very happy with mine too. I have done 1700km and am used to it now. As you say its only a fraction noisier in reality than the std one. (my car was noisy before)

I would always fit a solid flywheel now I think. I can't really see the point of not doing it.

I won't be using it for a while now however as I just broke the layshaft. :eek:

Rgds
Pete

[jx2mad]

Last year my 110 had a full clutch replacement only 12000k after the last replacement. There was a lot of talk amongst the 4wd sellers of low quality plates being made for thge market as a whole. As I had it done I am not sure if the flywheel was machined the first time but it certainly was the second. Incidently the first change was done only because the gearbox was out and I was not sure of the age or condition of the plate. It was not causing trouble but was done whilst all things were removed, as a matter of course. Jim