Considering LPG on my 4.6 GEMS

[daljames]

Gudday all,

Considering LPG on my 4.6 as i am buying a house and will spend a lot more time commuting in klms if not time. So, the motorbike has to go but the Rangey made the cut! However in order to keep the k's off the good cars i'm thinking of fitting LPG to the Rangey and doing at least some days commuting in it.

So, can i get away with the cheap single point injection? Should i go the whole hog? Happy to start on petrol and change over once on freeway in which time the engine would be at operating temp.

How about this? Range Rover P38 V8 LPG self fit full kit OMVL Tank 95L (eBay item 170584200977 end time 08-Jan-11 04:45:35 AEDST) : Vehicle Parts Accessories (http://cgi.ebay.com.au/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170584200977&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT#ht_5346wt_1141)

Can this be bought and installed in Oz or does it a compliance plate?

[bee utey]

A basic single point mixer system will work quite well so long as the spark plugs are chosen for gas. I wouldn't import a tank as all tanks sold in Australia have to meet AS1425. If you found a second hand system you could be up for round $2000 and there is still a $1500 government rebate applicable to new and second hand installations. The best tanks are sold by Blue LPG and fill the spare wheel well. then you need somewhere to put the spare safely.

[daljames]

Anyone know anyone selling a second hand system as well?

[bee utey]

The best value second hand tank is the APA model K275H donut (toroidal) tank to suit VT to VY wagons. It holds 60litres of LPG. There is no need to buy a "kit" as most parts are separately available and fit other vehicles too. Except for the special filler for the P38 and maybe the mixer ring, all the other bits can come off a suitable later model (90's) commodore or falcon. Visit a few Holden wreckers and ask about the donut tanks.

[bee utey]

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/Fits like this one I did a couple of years ago

[p38arover]

Anyone know anyone selling a second hand system as well?

PM sent.

[BusinessConnected]

I've driven both the Single Point & Sequential Injection Kits and I can't emphasis how much better the Sequential Injection Kits are.

As stated previously both Junosi & I have purchased the Marrelli Kits from the UK. After some initial teething problems both are working great. My Trip Computer reports average Fuel Use as 15.3L Per 100km, actual LPG usage is around 18L per 100km, which is fantastic for a Low Compression Motor.

I've heard people talking about 30L+ Per 100km for the Single Point Mixer Style Kits, as well as the risk of backfire which is eliminated with the Sequential Injection Kit.

Under Bonnet Kit from UK: ~$900 Delivered
Used Toiroidal LPG Tank 60L: ~$300
Installation,Setup & LPG Lines: ~$1200

Overall: +$2400

If you go down this path, there are some little tips which will make life easier for you (dont want to go into extreme detail at the moment) however shoot my a PM and either Junosi or I can discuss.

[BusinessConnected]

N.B: Imported Kits can still potentially qualify for the Government rebate, however if Installation + Tank is more than $1500 it doesn't really matter, as you can just claim based on those Invoices (which is what I did as I purchased a New 72L Tank)

Just ordered another kit for the Wife's P38 today.
My Car will run exclusively on Gas only right up to the Redline (obviously after Warming Up), seems to have more Power & Go on LPG (which I link to the Higher Octane Rating of Gas) and certainly revs easier on gas as well.

I now spend less $$$ Driving the P38 around than my 2002 Volvo V70 2.5L Turbo, which used to average around 10L per 100km.

[daljames]

Any luck with the details on where to buy from in UK?

[LavisLane]

Daljames - i'm in the same boat. The Marelli kits are here (http://marrelliautogas.com/about.htm). We just need to find someone to fit them in Sydney (or not?).

Another thread on the kit here http://www.aulro.com/afvb/p38a-range-rover/98125-marrelli-lpg-complete-under-bonnet-kit.html

Anyone know an LPG fitter in Sydney they would recommended?

Dave

[p38arover]

Anyone know an LPG fitter in Sydney they would recommended?

..... and knows P38A Rangies.

I used Diesel Gas Technologies at Kingswood. Matt and Brad previously owned KLR Automotove, an LR specialist.

BTW, AMR Manufacturing make an LPG filler for the P38A that fits under the petrol flap area beside the petrol filler. I have recently fitted one to mine. It's Part No. RF27RRHSE.

[daljames]

Ron, where in the intake manifold did they install the injector outlets? Trying to figure out how much of the manifold has coolant around it and where it is solid Alloy...

[bee utey]

Ron, where in the intake manifold did they install the injector outlets? Trying to figure out how much of the manifold has coolant around it and where it is solid Alloy...

Injector nozzles should be drilled adjacent to the petrol injectors. No water jackets here.

[daljames]

Adjacent, as in behind (closer to the plenum)? or next to (same position re plenum just lower)?

[bee utey]

Adjacent, as in behind (closer to the plenum)? or next to (same position re plenum just lower)?
Adjacent as in next to, beside etc.. The petrol injector sits in a little pocket, and usually I drill the gas injector nipple into the angle between the runner and the manifold face, as close as you can to the petrol injector while making sure the gas hose fits on without fouling the fuel rail. It is after all only a 6mm nipple and hose, the injector is remote mounted.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/attachment.php?attachmentid=32495&stc=1&d=1295240317

Sadly I haven't got a close-up of the injector nozzle but this pic gives you the idea of the remote injectors and rubber hoses which go wherever you need them to go.

[p38arover]

Here's a pic I found on the 'Net some years ago:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/535.jpg

[daljames]

Perfect Ron, you're a legend.

[Gullible]

Hi Bee Utey,
Does it matter if the LPG hoses are different lengths from the LPG injector to the LPG injector nipple?

[bee utey]

Hi Bee Utey,
Does it matter if the LPG hoses are different lengths from the LPG injector to the LPG injector nipple?
Moderate length differences (say from 150 to 200mm) don't affect the flow rate much as the jets at the injectors are usually much smaller than the hose ID. Most engines monitor mixture in 2 banks, so you don't want too much variation in flow. You could of course use a bigger jet if you were forced to use a 50mm hose and a 300mm one. I don't recall I had much problem keeping the hoses similar in length. That is why I used the injectors in pairs, then the nozzles for each pair of cylinders are aimed towards each other and follow the same path. In general I work out how long the longest hose has to be, make all of them the same, refit the manifold plenum, and trim a bit off (if I have to) for best fit.

So I don't it exactly as P38arovers pic shows, I drill about 25mm closer to the heads and aim the pairs of injector nozzles together. The nozzles in the pic aim at the fuel rails so will be sharply bent right at the nozzles.

[redandy3575]

Looks Messy under the bonnet...

How does all the LPG components handle extreme off-road conditions i.e Mud, water during river crossings and severe dust??

[bee utey]

Looks Messy under the bonnet...

How does all the LPG components handle extreme off-road conditions i.e Mud, water during river crossings and severe dust??

No better or worse than the rest of the notoriously reliable P38 electronics. Most connectors have silicone dust seals as is normal automotive practice.

If you don't like messy underbonnets get one of them tojo things with an acoustic cover, hides all the things their owners don't want to see.:p:p:p

[redandy3575]

Who in Melbourne would anyone recommend installing the vapour injection system?

[jsp]

I can understand the lack of backfiring and the increased potential fuel economy on injection, but I have to admit after having the 3.9 classic and the 4.6 gems P38 put on LPG and after owning three other 3.5/3.9 rangies on LPG the only time they have ever front fired is realistically my own fault. Also the economy figures don't seem to be that much better than what I have found I get with single point.

I can put all my frontfires down to almost empty LPG tanks and me sinking the boot in from idle.

I even once had a huge one, which caused half of the LPG to flow out to the engine bay after blowing a grommit off the mixer, but the car still ran, slightly rough, on petrol even though I was unaware the air intake had come off also between the maf and the engine.

When I keep at least a fifth of a tank of LPG at all times I simply haven't had an issue, and believe me I often drive my poor cars as if I stole them.

On the bosch I am told its a different thing, but I wouldn't discount it on GEMS or the old 14CUX setups putting a single point injection system on. Just make sure the ring has a large enough diameter and you always have plenty of LPG in the tank, and as beeutey says the proper plugs etc.

Power wise on either of mine I can't tell the difference between petrol of LPG, except a slight lack when towing heavy loads up a gradient on LPG.

just my 5 cents :)