P38 Diagnostics/Troubleshooting

[macca72]

Hi All

What equipment would you recommend I should get for general troubleshooting,fault finding etc.

I have a 2000 P38A 4 L auto.

[Junosi]

If you want a comprehensive tool then there's really only one choice - Faultmate MSV-2 (extreme or nano). At around $1000 though you might be put off.... if you intend to keep the car for any length of time it will pay for itself and at the same time make your ownership more pleasant and easy.

Aside from that - if you just want standard engine data then any old generic OBD II scanner will do - but will not communicate with the variety of other systems the P38 uses.

[Hoges]

x2 plus...for the EAS try http://www.rswsolutions.com/ and search it for the free software and DIY instructions to make a cable

[daljames]

X 3. They are an awesome bit of gear. Just remember if you need customer assistance though, your better off on here. Blackbox Solutions produce awesome gear. But they are electrical engineers and no good when it comes to customer service (Crap is the word i'd use..). Takes nothing away from just how good the hardware is though.

[Keithy P38]

X 4 - I've used my Faultmate MSV-2 Extreme for both P38's i've owned and it well and truly has paid for itself. Plus if you like to venture into the wilderness you can take it with you and have a bit more peace of mind! Very simple to use (once you very thoroughly read the owners instructions).

Cheers
Keithy

[Sydr]

X 4 - I've used my Faultmate MSV-2 Extreme for both P38's i've owned and it well and truly has paid for itself. Plus if you like to venture into the wilderness you can take it with you and have a bit more peace of mind! Very simple to use (once you very thoroughly read the owners instructions).

Cheers
Keithy

I'm most interested in this thread and others that recommend the Faultmate MSV-2 Extreme. Since this comment is a year old, I have a few questions:
1. With the rapid development of electronic gismos, do participants on this forum still hold the view that this device is the one to get?

and

2. My perception is that this is a useful tool if you service your car yourself. My interest is in being self sufficient while on the road, and being able to sort out my car if it chucks a hissy fit. As things stand at the moment, I'm unlikely to carry out general servicing myself. So, is this still the right tool, or should I be looking at something basic. If so, what do you recommend and what functionality would I lose.

and finally

3. I'm intrigued by the references to serial port connectivity to a device (Extreme) that seems to have its own display and the ability to alter or reset software. Why is a connection to a PC necessary? I don't want to have to carry a laptop as well.

[OffTrack]

If you want a comprehensive tool then there's really only one choice - Faultmate MSV-2 (extreme or nano). At around $1000 though you might be put off.... if you intend to keep the car for any length of time it will pay for itself and at the same time make your ownership more pleasant and easy.

Aside from that - if you just want standard engine data then any old generic OBD II scanner will do - but will not communicate with the variety of other systems the P38 uses.

Perhaps that should now be two choices? ;)

The Nanocom EVO supports the P38a as of late december 2011.

https://blackbox-solutions.com/shop/?code=NCOM07&from=NANOCOM%20EVOLUTION&item=NCOM07

According to Colin/BBS Guy's blog post


These newer additions are however also vastly more complex than previous ones and will be covered to exactly the same extent as is possible with our own BBS equipment.

and


Like the 3 other new systems recently introduced, these new systems have not had to be laboriously developed from scratch for the Nanocom and contain almost no errors or bugs from the very start, as we are able to apply our existing code, and vast experience and knowledge to them, which is one reason why they have been able to be added so quickly.

This means the EVO P38a modules are based the same code used for the Faultmate modules.

http://www.aulro.com/afvb/blogs/bbs+guy/440-further-nanocom-development-p38.html


2. My perception is that this is a useful tool if you service your car yourself. My interest is in being self sufficient while on the road, and being able to sort out my car if it chucks a hissy fit. As things stand at the moment, I'm unlikely to carry out general servicing myself. So, is this still the right tool, or should I be looking at something basic. If so, what do you recommend and what functionality would I lose.

and finally

3. I'm intrigued by the references to serial port connectivity to a device (Extreme) that seems to have its own display and the ability to alter or reset software. Why is a connection to a PC necessary? I don't want to have to carry a laptop as well.


Basically the EVO with appropriate unlock code for the P38a should give you same level of coverage as the MSV-2 in a compact, touch screen package.

cheers
Paul

[Hoges]

I don't have an "Extreme" model ..I have the earlier one (SV1). My understanding of the "Extreme" is that the onboard screen contains most of the necessary info to describe faults/clear them etc as well as do the EAS calibration (?) without the necessity for a computer screen

I have a dedicated 10" netbook (HP)($250 special) running XP pro SP3. I store the netbook AC adaptor and Faultmate with serial/USB cable etc in a small bag tucked away in the boot.

The netbook is loaded with Faultmate's Vehicle Explorer, RAVE, Microcat parts database, lots of "how to" web content from various P38 websites and Storey wilson's EASUnlock software. It is also handy for connecting a $60 USB "snake" camera with its own L.E.D. illumination for examining for water leaks, inside cylinders, diff housings...

I also use the netbook with a CANBUS adaptor and software etc to maintain the wife's Astra 1.8 AH model...

you get the idea...

thanks for reminding me that the post is a year old...damn that time went quickly!:eek:

[p38arover]

My set up is the same as Hoges.

[PaulP38a]

I have a MSV-2 Extreme in a Pelican Case of cables, netbook PC, power supply/leads, EAS Unlock Cable, EAS Kicker Lite and a Nanocom Evo II with P38 software loaded.

Since playing with the Nanocom for about 6 weeks now, I usually leave the Pelican Case at home. If I was starting out again, and only wanted to cover P38, Disco 2 and Defender, I would probably buy the Nanocom. There are a few minor annoyances with the current software, however BBS are improving functionality and rectifying the teething issues at an impressive rate.

When you buy a MSV-2 with a single vehicle P38 licence, it locks itself to the VIN of the car. The Nanocom Evo 2 is multi-vehicle for each unlock code you purchase. i.e. you buy the P38 GEMS unlock code, it will work on any P38 with GEMS, if you buy the P38 Motronics unlock code it will work on any P38 with the Bosch/Motronics engine management system.

You can buy the Nanocom Evo 2 direct from BBS. I don't believe resellers are stocking it at this stage AFAIK... me included.

Cheers, Paul.

[Sydr]

I don't have an "Extreme" model ..I have the earlier one (SV1). My understanding of the "Extreme" is that the onboard screen contains most of the necessary info to describe faults/clear them etc as well as do the EAS calibration (?) without the necessity for a computer screen

I have a dedicated 10" netbook (HP)($250 special) running XP pro SP3. I store the netbook AC adaptor and Faultmate with serial/USB cable etc in a small bag tucked away in the boot.

The netbook is loaded with Faultmate's Vehicle Explorer, RAVE, Microcat parts database, lots of "how to" web content from various P38 websites and Storey wilson's EASUnlock software. It is also handy for connecting a $60 USB "snake" camera with its own L.E.D. illumination for examining for water leaks, inside cylinders, diff housings...

I also use the netbook with a CANBUS adaptor and software etc to maintain the wife's Astra 1.8 AH model...

you get the idea...

thanks for reminding me that the post is a year old...damn that time went quickly!:eek:

Thank you, your information is very helpful. The mischief in me cannot resist pointing out that it is not just the post that has aged a year . . . . .

or that the very good thing about getting older is that it certainly beats the alternative

[Sydr]

I have a MSV-2 Extreme in a Pelican Case of cables, netbook PC, power supply/leads, EAS Unlock Cable, EAS Kicker Lite and a Nanocom Evo II with P38 software loaded.

Since playing with the Nanocom for about 6 weeks now, I usually leave the Pelican Case at home. If I was starting out again, and only wanted to cover P38, Disco 2 and Defender, I would probably buy the Nanocom. There are a few minor annoyances with the current software, however BBS are improving functionality and rectifying the teething issues at an impressive rate.

When you buy a MSV-2 with a single vehicle P38 licence, it locks itself to the VIN of the car. The Nanocom Evo 2 is multi-vehicle for each unlock code you purchase. i.e. you buy the P38 GEMS unlock code, it will work on any P38 with GEMS, if you buy the P38 Motronics unlock code it will work on any P38 with the Bosch/Motronics engine management system.

You can buy the Nanocom Evo 2 direct from BBS. I don't believe resellers are stocking it at this stage AFAIK... me included.

Cheers, Paul.

Paul,
Thank you for your even handed, fair comment. Especially since you seem to have a commercial interest in the larger unit.

The recommendations for both the MSV2-Extreme and the Nanocom Evo 2 on the forum are pretty even, so I called BBS last night, spoke to Ron, explained my requirements and he strongly advocated the Nanocomm for exactly the same reasons as you did. I've ordered one, now I will have to learn to drive it.

Thank you all for your interest and guidance.
Syd

[PaulP38a]

Happy to help Syd. Here are a couple of pics of my Nanocom being used for real-time monitoring of my P38 last weekend.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

There is a useful feature in the Instrumentation settings that allows you to calibrate the speed reading for tyre size. I run 33" tyres so set the calibration to 1.15 and the Nanocom reading was pretty damn close to my GPS speed. The car speedo is still out by 15% though.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

there is a lot of info to view in the various instrumentation screens... I am still trying to figure out what most of it means ;)

I don't recommend going in to the EAS diagnostics while doing 110km/h on the highway. Had an "O golly" moment exiting the live values screen and the EAS decided to "return"(?) to high setting.

Cheers, Paul.

[Sydr]

Thanks for the information and photographs. I'm Interested in your comment about using GPS for road speed; I use mine to try and stay out of trouble given that most speedometers have a built in fudge factor.

So, I use the GPS display as "dead accurate" to drive to. I 'may' decide that a discrete (small, conservative) amount over the posted limit (in NSW) would be so small that Mr Plod would probably deem it not worth his while to pull me over. So far, so good, and he hasn't.

Question is, how accurate is the GPS speed display?

2nd Question, how much slack is Mr Plod likely to allow?

What of employing this tactic in ACT, Vic, or SA? Or even the Republic of WA?
:wasntme:

[Hoges]

The Vic govt doesn't need poker machines...they use speed cameras. half the width of a speedo needle above the limit could be enough to get you filling the coffers :mad:

[PaulP38a]

I sometimes have 2 GPS' running to check against each other and they are usually within a couple of km/h of each other.
So far, the GPS method has served me well with the multitude of fixed and mobile speed cameras around Canberra and Queanbeyan.
Cheers, Paul.

[33chinacars]

Vic " Safety cameras " give +3 kph at 100 kph. Australia standards for speedos is +/- 10 %. Not the same and no leeway :mad:

Gary

[Sydr]

Vic " Safety cameras " give +3 kph at 100 kph. Australia standards for speedos is +/- 10 %. Not the same and no leeway :mad:

Gary

I can hear the "Kerching" of the cash registers. But no! I must be mistaken. They are safety cameras, not cash registers.
Aren't they?

[wild_willy]

Happy to help Syd. Here are a couple of pics of my Nanocom being used for real-time monitoring of my P38 last weekend.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/

There is a useful feature in the Instrumentation settings that allows you to calibrate the speed reading for tyre size. I run 33" tyres so set the calibration to 1.15 and the Nanocom reading was pretty damn close to my GPS speed. The car speedo is still out by 15% though.

http://paulp38a.com/gallery/d/5852-2/IMG-20120218-00742.jpg

there is a lot of info to view in the various instrumentation screens... I am still trying to figure out what most of it means ;)

I don't recommend going in to the EAS diagnostics while doing 110km/h on the highway. Had an "O golly" moment exiting the live values screen and the EAS decided to "return"(?) to high setting.

Cheers, Paul.

Hi Paul
Apart from being what appears to be a very expensive digital speedo, what else can the Nanocom do? :p
I am on the verge of buying one of these and would appreciate any first hand knowledge you may have on its usefulness in sorting out the P38 bugs. Does it really live up to the BBS claims? By the way does the nifty little mounting come with the Nanocom?
Thanks
Bruce from Melb

[PaulP38a]

Hi Paul
Apart from being what appears to be a very expensive digital speedo, what else can the Nanocom do? :p
I am on the verge of buying one of these and would appreciate any first hand knowledge you may have on its usefulness in sorting out the P38 bugs. Does it really live up to the BBS claims? By the way does the nifty little mounting come with the Nanocom?
Thanks
Bruce from Melb

Hi Bruce

There are a bunch more photos of the Nanocom in action at my project site NanocomP38 (http://paulp38a.com/gallery/v/diagnostics/nanocomp38/)

The info at BBS covers the functions pretty well:


Product flyer at http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/downloads/Product_literature/Nanocom_Evolution.pdf

P38 general coverage at http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/downloads/vehicle_coverage/P38.pdf

P38 GEMS (1995-1998) specific functions at http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/downloads/vehicle_coverage/GEMS.pdf

Motronics (1999-2002) specific functions at http://www.blackbox-solutions.com/downloads/vehicle_coverage/MOTRONIC.pdf

So far, it appears to do everything that my MSV-2 Extreme can do on the P38.

As I have said earlier in this thread, I now carry the Nanocom around in preference to the MSV-2. The windscreen mount is what I normally use for my Blackberry, and I picked it up from OfficeWorks for about $30. The Nanocom just fits in it.

Yes it is a cool (but not very expensive IMHO) speedo. In instrumentation mode, it shows stuff that I don't understand yet. As a stand-alone diagnostics tool, it appears to read and clear faults in the same manner as the MSV-2... noting that I have had no significant faults yet, just the occassional HEVAC ground fault and a forced EAS fault to prove it was working.

As you may know, I am a reseller for BBS product via my hobby business Hardrange.com. I do have a commercial interest in their products so I would encourage you to "calibrate your expectations" with feedback from other users. However, I do not sell Nanocoms (yet or ever?) and I get no commercial gain by recommending them. I do sell FaultMate MSV-2 systems and make a small profit on them, so why would I be raving about the Nanocom if I make no money from them?

Primarily I am a P38 enthusiast and like to be self-sufficient in terms of diagnostics and maintenance. I love the Nanocom touch screen and the ability to view real-time data (although it could be a bit brighter in daylight). The MSV-2 can also do this when connected to a laptop, but even a netbook is awkward to mount on the dash... yes I have done it ;)
My MSV-2 has licences for my P38's and Freelander. My Nanocom Evo 2 has licences for P38 GEMS and Motronic, Disco 2 TD5 and Motronics, Defender Td5 and Puma. Each has their own strengths and coverage. I recently tried to convince a customer to buy a Nanocom instead of a MSV-2, but he bought the MSV-2 from me for his P38 anyway as he is intending to get a L322 in the near future and I have NFI if/when BBS will add CAN-Bus RR capability to the Nanocom.

Aside - my "day job" is in consulting (doesn't matter what kind) and I believe my customers keep coming back because I give them good advice rather than what is good for my short-term gain.

Anyway, make of this what you will and I hope some other folks using the Nancom also give some feedback.

Cheers, Paul.

[wild_willy]

Paul
Thank you for your information and your honesty.
I will study the link you supplied to determine if its for me. From what Ive seen to date it appears that the Nanocom is a pretty good bit of kit. I havent got any faults at this point but Im sure they will come to visit before too long and Id like to be ready;).

Cheers
Bruce

[wanglemoose]

so what i can gather at this time of the night in my drunken state is the nanocom can break into and reprogram all systems including engine management? as well as code clearing etc. is this correct or is the alcahol vision telling lies.

[PaulP38a]

Correct Mick - the alcohol is not telling fibs. As far as I can tell, the Nanocom does everything the MSV-2 does... except for the advanced BeCM reprogramming which is a $1000 option on the MSV-2, requires a special cable, removal of the BeCM and resoldering of connections on the main board.

Off to top up my glass of red... :twobeers:

Cheers, Paul.

[Craig_Keira]

I've just taken delivery of a Nanocom. I went over to Paul's place and got a demo and a long chat. I pretty much decided that if I was going to have a P38, I was going to need some sort of ECU diagnostics.

Paul gave me a run down on a few of the things the Nanocom could do. For the money, it's by far and away the best value tool. I've hooked mine up and gone through all the ECUs, found a few faults, changed a couple of behaviours ( I think, still learning!). The Nanocom rocks. I wish all cars would come with this kind of technology.

At the moment, I have an SRS fault. Hooked the nanocom up and instantly found that it was because the driver's airbag was reporting open circuit. I'd not long ago replaced the steering wheel. Pretty obvious what's happened there. It would have taken me ages to find that without the Nanocom. I had the answer in less than 2 minutes.

I can't recommend one of these highly enough. I won't be going on any trips without it.

Also, it's cool being able to set your temp gauge to various levels to see if it's working correctly. And turn your number plate lights on. And stuff.

Just buy one. It will be the best workshop investment you make.

[wanglemoose]

just a follow up on the ecu tuning side of thie nanocom, are you able to set the ecu into learn mode and can you manually adjust the ignition, fuel maps and compensations. wondering if the nanocom will give me enough tuning leway with the std ecu or if im still going to have to shell out for the m800 motec.

cheers

[Hoges]

Hi Wanglemoose ... the Bosch Motronic 5.2.1 engine management system as fitted to the P38, is deliberately designed to prevent changes to the fuel mapping etc. Even if one is able to introduce minor changes to the tune, the ECU locks itself and becomes a "brick" after about 12 changes... there's a writeup about the frustrations of this on the BMW 3 series website
The GEMS programme is able to be tweaked... but not necessarily by the Nanocom.

[wanglemoose]

cheers hoges, just the info i was after, looks like il be running with the m800 after all, when the beast makes it back to duty, i dare say il still buy a nanocom for all the other systems tho, they look like a very useful tool.

cheers