Static Electricity and Puma Immobilised !

[danske]

Hi All Puma 08 owners

Just a heads up for you , whilst heading home from Rutherglen on the weekend ,I pulled into Wallan Service Centre ( BP) and filled up. Went to drive off and the engine would kick over but not stay on ( immobilised ). The Remote Alarm would not work either. Disconnected the battery to try and reset it , no go. Called LR assist after several attempts to start, and the local Mechanic came out and promptly told me that if we move it out from under the covered area , it should be OK. - Huh!

Yep it did , apparently the static under the covered area plays havoc with Alarms and imobilisers on Jeeps and some of our cars. So next time you think the LR gremlins are up to no good with Alarms and immobilisers , perhaps Static ( at Wallan anyway ) could be the answer.

[the_chisholm]

I had a simmilar experience in the exact same servo (the south bound one on the hume), it wouldnt unlock with the fob, so i unlocked it with the key.
The alarm subsequently went off, after a few embarasing minutes i could switch of the alarm by using the fob in the drivers side footwell.

The car started alright though........

Gremlins i guess....

[Bavo]

Heading home to Keilor from Seymour yesterday, I stopped to get fuel at Wallan, yep, southbound on the Hume, and the immobiliser locked up.

Initially I bought a new bettery for the key fob, but no joy there.
Called LR Assist, they dispatched a tow truck.
Servo staff said it happens all the time there, suggested I push it out from under the cover.
Tow truck arrived from Wallan, first thing he said was "happens all the time, we'll just drag it out a bit and it should be fine".

But it wasn't fine. Still no go. Apparently about 1/2 start OK when pushed out from under the roof and mine was in the other half.
When I finally got home (via tow truck) I tried the spare key. It works fine. Original key still not working though. Seems to affect the key not the car ?

Has this happened to others?

[austastar]

Hi,
similar happens on top of Mt Wellington (Hobart) near the TV transmitters.
There may be some sort of radio frequency going on under the servo roof.

cheers

[Bavo]

I spoke to MLR service this morning - they think it may be the door sensors on the shop working on the same fequency as the LR key fob. The bloke I spoke with certainly knew about the Wallan BP though...

Have to take the Defender (and faulty key) in the get 're-programmed'.

[n plus one]

Rumour on the street is that if you jam the fob under one of the front wheel arches (can't remember if its drivers or passenger) you can normally overcome this.

It's hasn't happened to me yet, but this was a tip from a tow company that had hauled a couple of Deefers.

[chook73]

Happened to me there as well, just rolled it back in the driveway and disconnected the battery for a minute and it was good to go. Needless to say I have never filled up there since.......


My 2009 110 Puma thread http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/85537-chooks-defender-110-a.html

Sent from my iPad using fingers and thumbs

[Bavo]

Happened to me there as well, just rolled it back in the driveway and disconnected the battery for a minute and it was good to go.

Did you have to re-program anything? (radio security code, immobiliser etc?)

Thanks,
John.

[chook73]

Did you have to re-program anything? (radio security code, immobiliser etc?)

Thanks,
John.

Probably the radio it was a fee years ago now.


Sent from my iPhone using Thumbs

[Bavo]

Finally got into MLR on Friday to get the key and fob working again.
It took them about an hour but all seems OK now.

Weird though - when I drove in my GPS was powered by the cigarette lighter and worked OK. When I left GPS no longer works as the cigarette lighter has no power. Hopefully it's just the fuse. Not sure what they did to get a key fob working that would affect the lighter?.

Anyone know of a competent LR service place in western suburbs of Melb?

[Def_9]

This forum is Awesome!!
Only I wish I had of read this post before I pulled in to the south bound servo at wallan this arvo...
The exact problem described happened to me, of coarse I had no idea why. Disconnected the battery, checked all relevant fuses, messed around for a while, then rang land rover and they sent old mate tow truck driver. Who explained that it happens regularly and hopefully if he towed me out it might start and so it did.
Luckily we made it to the spirit of Tasmania on time and we are on our way south. Phew!

Cheers Lucas

[Allan]

Had this happen on the Puma at Sandfire road house twice, got so paranoid I used to leave it running any time I got fuel up there.

Allan

[Eeny]

folks - Wallan BP southbound claimed me a couple of weeks ago.
my deefer is a MY13. I was on my way (from Canberra - first fuel stop = 650 km = 10l per 100km) to catch the ferry from Melbourne to Devonport. Engine immobilised at bowser, tow truck driver pulled me down the driveway and hey presto, engine came to life. the interlude to my journey lasted only about 30 mins - luckily I made it to the ferry.
I have contacted LR for their response, particularly since I have found out after the event that it's a common occurrence at Wallan with these vehicles.
if the Wallan enigma happens regularly, why not let owners know so they can avoid the area rather than to find out the hard way.
After all, roadside assistance under new car warranty is a cost LR Australia would want to avoid.
My unit's done 7000km now. only problem has been Wallan - otherwise extremely happy with performance etc.

[spudboy]

Rumour on the street is that if you jam the fob under one of the front wheel arches (can't remember if its drivers or passenger) you can normally overcome this.

It's hasn't happened to me yet, but this was a tip from a tow company that had hauled a couple of Deefers.

What's the logic for this?

[Lagerfan]

What's the logic for this?

Guesswork but ... The receiver is below/behind the instrument cluster so I can only speculate that this gets the fob tx/rx nice and close (driver side wheel arch) while at the same time offering some shielding from the EM that is causing the interference. Maybe.

[dullbird]

My guess would be perhaps a rather lot of steel in the way to help interrupt frequency from other sources but you would still be very close to the immobiliser on the car as its situated up under the dash near the fire wall on the drivers side. So your frequency is more direct with a shorter path

[n plus one]

I think we have two winners!

I haven't had to do it, but the tow service I used (for trailer issues) was pretty confident that this works.

[nedflanders]

Very common in the UK, Subarus seemed badly affected. There's a military listening post in the North that claims cars on a frequent basis if they stop, sometimes they need towing a couple of miles to get th started.

[PhilipA]

Have any of you emailed BP to tell them they are losing business and to fix the Wallan fuel outlet?
Regards Philip A

[DRB]

Hi Bavo,

I had a similar thing happen to me in my MY12 defender (radio interference stopped the key fob from working, then afterwards the fob still didn't work)

When the fob failed to unlock the truck I immediately went and purchased a new battery. I did not realise that by changing the battery I had "un-synced" the rolling code between the fob and the immobiliser. The immobiliser runs a unique set of codes for each fob which is why the other would still work.

To get it working again I had to follow this procedure, which I found on a UK forum.

1. Take out the fob battery
2. Hold down both buttons for about 30 seconds
3. Put the fob battery back in
4. Keep pressing the "Lock" button until the fob syncs with the vehicles immobiliser. You will know it has worked because the indicators will flash. I personally had to press the lock button about 6 times before it worked.


It should also be noted that the vehicle can be started without the key fob by using the Emergency Key Access (EKA) code. This is input by turning the key a select number of times to represent each number (this is a tedious procedure which can be found in the factory manual). The EKA code is difficult to obtain. Land Rover assist told me they don't have access to the codes and that I need to contact the dealer I bought the vehicle from. The dealer told me they can't give out the code unless I come in to the dealership with ID. It may be worth requesting a copy of the code next time you are at the dealer.

Hope this helps.
Regards,

DRB



Heading home to Keilor from Seymour yesterday, I stopped to get fuel at Wallan, yep, southbound on the Hume, and the immobiliser locked up.

Initially I bought a new bettery for the key fob, but no joy there.
Called LR Assist, they dispatched a tow truck.
Servo staff said it happens all the time there, suggested I push it out from under the cover.
Tow truck arrived from Wallan, first thing he said was "happens all the time, we'll just drag it out a bit and it should be fine".

But it wasn't fine. Still no go. Apparently about 1/2 start OK when pushed out from under the roof and mine was in the other half.
When I finally got home (via tow truck) I tried the spare key. It works fine. Original key still not working though. Seems to affect the key not the car ?

Has this happened to others?

[LARO]

Happened to me today - 21 Sep 2014 :-(

[FV1601]

Finally getting around to post a heads up about Wallan, but unsurprisingly I'm not the first.
This was only the 2nd time I had fuelled up (2010 130) a couple of months back.
Fully loaded with the Champ on the trailer and motor would not turn over. Read the book and found only the radio access code in the folder, which does not work on the immobiliser! Could not open the fob to replace battery due to swearing fit.


Told the BP attendant that we would be blocking the driveway for a while, he just shrugged and carried on.
RACV turned up, wanted to know if we had opened the fob ( no, 'cause I @#!*& couldn't), hooked up and towed us around the side and started it for me. Lots more swearing, but of the very relieved nature.


For the record, most done in one day was 3 (Last Christmas), if not towing usually he just rolls you back a couple of lengths, DON'T remove the battery from the fob, he says it's something in the awning/roof as has been mentioned in earlier posts, but I guess that's because we've all met the same guy (thankfully)
Blacklocks Wodonga (were we purchased) were unable to supply the access code, nor was the service dept. remotely interested in the failure or cure.
Blacklocks Albury (Thanks Josh at the service desk) was able to get the code eventually, although there was some issues with the VIN number not being on the Land Rover computer.
We had stopped at Wallan Southbound every trip to Melbourne since it was built, now have adjusted our plans accordingly.
Hats off and 3 cheers to the RACV man in Wallan!
Rich.

[4wheeler]

My 2013 Defender failed to start after refuelling at Gundagai. After filling up I tried to start the car. First turn of the key it turned over but would not start. Second turn, only just turned over then third turn absolutely nothing. I knew it wasn't the battery and was aware or the RFI problem. Gave the car a bit of a shove to move it a few metres and luckily it started.

Last month at West Wyalong I parked next the RSL (or similar). I tried to lock the Defender and it would not lock. After 20 presses of the fob button it finally locked. Problem was it then would not unlock! It was dark so I could not see much. I suddenly thought to myself - are there any microwave or transmitter towers nearby? Went for a short wander and wouldn't you know it, there was this dirty great tower with all sorts of stuff hanging off it. That stupid RFI problem again. I then put the fob up against the glass at the A pillar where the aerial for the security device is and suddenly I had full operation of the system again. I moved the car away from the tower and have not had a problem since.

So the take home message from this rant is don't park near big towers with lots of electronic junk hanging off them or be aware that the Defender security system is sensitive to such RF sources as well.


For any remote outback trip I would be tempted to disarm the security system just in case. I assume this can be done with a 2013 model?

[alan48]

Hi,
recently I parked outside a cafe in Nyngan and similar problem (MY13 130) mine would not lock then did but then would not unlock so used the key in the door then alarm went off then stopped that by pressing unlock button and then car would not start, eventually it did but only on second turn of the key. This happened again next day but seems fine since, had also just had dealer replace fob battery the previous week as they say to do this every 12 months after ringing dealer to express my feelings. Have been told to take spare keys with me in future, but dealer also said to take car back top service to get fob etc checked out. So on the trip i was on with ACT club when we camped at Menindee I thought well might as well get it checked to went in to Broken Hill as only an hour away BUT guess what --no dealer there in a major outback centre (really what hope to LR have of reclaiming their market with so few dealers away from coastal cities, so many recalls across the JLR range???). Of course I should have checked if a dealer there so my fault but !!!!. By the way when I bought the car new I asked my dealer for the EKA code and was clearly told they do not have them from my car vintage any more, neither radio codes etc--that was what they said.

I also have been told it was the wi-fi frequency that the cafe was using, and that at some servos, particularly BP that it is the frequency they use for transmitting from the pumps to the pay station in the building with the newer pumps--please don't bag me if I am wrong--I have no idea it is just that another keen LR owner told me--who knows?

Bottom line is that this key issue is not what one expects when paying over $50 or $60K for a car.

[4wheeler]

Alan,
That is one big downside to Land Rover ownership and that is dealer support. There are a few more popping up in the major cities but can be a bit few and far between in country areas.


Unfortunately, spare keys won't help if the cause of the problem is interference.


I too had the alarm go off when I tried to open the door manually. Just a tad embarrassing as they really make a racket when the do their thing!


I'm going to check with my dealer regarding the EKA.

[Judo]

Bunnings black spot wreaks havoc with car locks (http://www.brisbanetimes.com.au/queensland/bunnings-black-spot-wreaks-havoc-with-car-locks-20160105-glzz1a.html)

More bizarre interference problems! I wonder if this one would affect the Defender too? Someone should go test it. :D

[DazzaTD5]

On Defender models TD5 and TDCi 2.4lt (early puma), any customer using it for remote travel etc etc, I disable the imobiliser, it avoids painful stuff like this or when you loose/damage/go swiming with the fob.

I've not tried the TDCi 2.2lt yet, but inevitable I'll get a call for it.

Regards
Daz