LT95 rebuild for beginners

[steveG]

LT95 rebuild for beginners...

What I hope it will be:
A place where those with LT95 experience can pass on their tips and experience to LT95 beginners (initially me) to end up with a successfully rebuilt LT95.

What it wont be:
A complete step by step guide.

Level of skill and equipment required:
Lets see as it progresses, but at the very least you'll need access to a reasonable selection of hand tools, circlip pliers etc and tools for removing/fitting bearings and seals.

The RR Classic "Gearbox Operations" manual has details of how to strip, overhaul and assemble the LT95 so that will be the main publication used unless someone can suggest a better one.

Steve

[steveG]

Stirlsilver has already posted up an awesome collection of photos and description of disassembling an LT95, so no point in re-doing that part.

See here (start at post 168):
http://www.aulro.com/afvb/members-rides/39420-series-iii-stage-1-bit-difference-17.html

Seems he did what I've done - take the box and start pulling bits off until its all in pieces. If something wont come off then remove the part that is stopping it :D

I reckon there is probably a more logical sequence to it that would make things go a lot more smoothly. The manual has sections on stripping each part of the gearbox, but not an overall "complete disassembly" procedure.

So - over to the guru's....
Whats the best order to strip an LT95 in (and why)?

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

the lt 95 is 3/5 on the spanners scale..
roughly
best start point is to get it out of the vehicle.
then
strip the linkages + parkbrake tab + the mount plates
stand it on its nose
remove the parkbrake side
strip the tcase side,
drop the foot
(the above makes it lighter to handle and gives you more handholds)
bench it
strip the pump
remove the bellhousing (might be thinking lt85 Ive been drinking bobs B+C)
remove the top
pull the selector mech
remove the front plate
extract the shafts
split the shafts apart.


the rangie book is good but IMHO the EMEI is better. except it deals with the trb setup.

[steveG]

Dave, is the "foot" the front cover that houses the input shaft seal and the oil pump?

I was advised to stand the box vertically before removing the front plate and shafts.

Both times I have done it, I've found it tricky to get the front plate off as it has to pull the layshaft out a bit to disengage it. In my case I still had the output gear on the mainshaft, so maybe its not a problem if you've already stripped the back of the box.
I'd wondered if removing the studs from the front of the box would make it any easier to remove the front plate?

Its reasonably obvious, but there are detent balls, springs and plungers on the selector shafts that WILL jump out and roll away under your workbench if you forget to remove them as you proceed.

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

yep...

I call the part that holds the 4 speed and reverse the "main box"
the part that is the Tcase is the "leg"
and the part that unbolts from the front of the Tcase that houses the CDL is the "foot"

it stems from working on outboards

I usually lay the whole thing on a large sheet and dont worry about where the detents and springs fall out as the sheet will catch them and the RPS and EMEI give the lenghts and sizes of what should go where .

[Bearman]

As Dave says using something like a sheet is a good idea to catch anything that rolls or shoots out. I use a piece of wire with a small 90 degree bend on the end of it and a magnet to remove the detent balls and selector interlocks, the reverse spring is defferent to the other 2 and is marked with a dob of yellow paint on the side.

[steveG]

As Dave says using something like a sheet is a good idea to catch anything that rolls or shoots out. I use a piece of wire with a small 90 degree bend on the end of it and a magnet to remove the detent balls and selector interlocks, the reverse spring is defferent to the other 2 and is marked with a dob of yellow paint on the side.

I wouldn't have noticed that, and don't recall seeing it mentioned in the manual.

A picture to illustrate - reverse must be the one on the RH side:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/771.jpg

Steve

[Bearman]

Thats it Steve, the one on the right with the paint on it. You can see it's a bit longer than the other two. I have taken a couple of pics of some of my "special" tools and an illustration of what the two most technical ones are used for. There is also a one of what can happen when the centre diff bolts come loose, this is why it's important to loctite them when you reassemble it.

[steveG]

So...now we've got the box in a bazillion bits on the bench, and have cleaned everything ready for inspection/re-assembly.

From the perspective of a tutorial, I think it makes sense to go through the box section by section and deal with known issues and things to look out for, then assembly of that section. Hopefully that will keep all the info for that section together rather than jumping back/forth through the thread.

Lets start with the layshaft as its a very simple part, and it needs to be set up before the main box is assembled.

Steve

[steveG]

Thats it Steve, the one on the right with the paint on it. You can see it's a bit longer than the other two. I have taken a couple of pics of some of my "special" tools and an illustration of what the two most technical ones are used for. There is also a one of what can happen when the centre diff bolts come loose, this is why it's important to loctite them when you reassemble it.

The layshaft cup tool is pretty much what I used to get the cup out of this box. Mine doesn't have the nice short foot, so had to improvise a bit.
The box that came with my Isuzu has a rear housing that looks like that. The pictures in Stirlsilver's thread are still the most impressive ones I've seen though - it smashed its way out of the main case :eek:

Steve

[steveG]

The layshaft is probably the most simple part of the box - a solid shaft with gears machined on it, and a bearing at each end.

Here it is bare with the bearings removed:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/752.jpg

Other than gear tooth damage and bearing failure I can't see anything that might go wrong with it.

It does need the bearing pre-load set up if you are replacing the bearings, and since the gasket between the main case and the front plate forms part of the fit up, its probably a good idea to check the preload any time you fit a new gasket (even if reusing the same bearings).

The manual covers it in detail, but the basic procedure is to fit the shaft into the case (you have to have the mainshaft removed to do it), fit the gasket, bolt on the front bearing plate, and fit the adjusting shim and front cover plate. Once that's done you wrap some string around the layshaft, and check the rolling resistance of the shaft using a spring balance.
Should be 2.75-3.8kg.

Pretty straightforward stuff.

The tricky bit comes when you need to work out what size shim to put in to get the correct preload.
In my case I have new bearings, but have refitted using the original shim. When testing the preload using the method above the shaft starts moving at about 1kg, and settles at about 0.5kg to keep it moving, so I obviously need a thicker shim.

Is there a rule of thumb for shim thickness increase vs rolling resistance increase?

Steve

[Bearman]

I don't know of one, just use a vernier or micrometer and find a bit bigger shim and keep experimenting until you get it about right. there is quite a range in the shims available

[85 county]

Is there a rule of thumb for shim thickness increase vs rolling resistance increase?

Steve

yes, what are the bearings

[steveG]

Bearings are LM48548/LM48510.

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

yes, what are the bearings

they're the things that go on the end of the shaft, usually look like a bunch of balls caught in 2 rings of shiney steel

[85 county]

they're the things that go on the end of the shaft, usually look like a bunch of balls caught in 2 rings of shiney steel

HA HA, What a crack up. Just so funny i doint think i can sleep tonight:p:p:p:p:p:p:Rolling:

[85 county]

Bearings are LM48548/LM48510.

Steve

Ok a bit smaller than what i play with. what i do is Dia of the shaft minis all the zeros then a 1/4

IE 25mm = 0.25 / 4 = 1 KG

i would be intrested to know if it works out for you. i fined that if its way out i start looking for other problems.

[steveG]

Ok a bit smaller than what i play with. what i do is Dia of the shaft minis all the zeros then a 1/4

IE 25mm = 0.25 / 4 = 1 KG

i would be intrested to know if it works out for you. i fined that if its way out i start looking for other problems.

Not sure I get the minus all the zeros bit..
So that makes 0.0625mm = 1KG increase/decrease in rolling resistance??

Steve

[85 county]

yes, did it work??

[steveG]

yes, did it work??

Pretty close. Here's what I did...

Problem for me (and will be the same for most other LT95 beginners) is that I don't have a box of shims to do the trial and error thing with.

What I DO have is the original shim as a starting point, and the gaskets that will be used for final fitment.
With those fitted I don't have enough preload (~0.5kg), so I need a thicker shim (or theoretically a thinner gasket).

Going by 85 County's approximation, I should need a shim about 0.19mm thicker than what I started with (extra 3kg x 0.625mm/kg )
The gasket between the front bearing plate and the front cover (foot in Blknight's terminology) is 0.41mm in my case, so if I removed that then by the same approximation I should end up with about 7kg preload.
When I did it the actual resistance was about 8kg.

Note: if you end up with too much preload when testing shim thicknesses you'll need to remove the bearing plate again and press the cup out slightly as it wont release the preload by itself even once you remove the foot completely.

I made a rough gasket out of heavy glossy paper that was 0.15mm thick, bolted it up and that gave me a preload of about 3.7kg (OK since the acceptable preload range is 2.75-3.8kg)

That means I need a shim that is 0.26mm thicker than the one I have (difference between the 0.41mm actual gasket and the 0.15mm glossy paper used for testing).

My conclusion from all of that, is that 85 County's approximation gives a reasonably good starting point, albeit on the thinner end (which is probably preferable anyway given my comment above on too much preload during setup).

Unfortunately the available shim range goes from 1.55-2.50mm, and I need 2.70 (which you cant make from that range).

Steve

[Bearman]

You can fix this by cutting a suitable shim from steel shim material and fitting behind the layshaft race or cone. Must admit I haven't seen one yet that a commercially available shim wouldn't fix. What brand of bearing are you using Steve. Maybe there is some difference in the width of the bearing.

[steveG]

You can fix this by cutting a suitable shim from steel shim material and fitting behind the layshaft race or cone. Must admit I haven't seen one yet that a commercially available shim wouldn't fix. What brand of bearing are you using Steve. Maybe there is some difference in the width of the bearing.
They are genuine Timken bearings.

Original shim thickness when I took it apart was 2.45mm, so pretty close to max available.

I'm wondering whether its an issue with non-genuine gaskets being a little thicker. Maybe I just need to make some from slightly thinner material to achieve the same result.

Steve

[Bearman]

They are genuine Timken bearings.

Original shim thickness when I took it apart was 2.45mm, so pretty close to max available.

I'm wondering whether its an issue with non-genuine gaskets being a little thicker. Maybe I just need to make some from slightly thinner material to achieve the same result.

Steve

Definitely a problem with non genuine gasket sets. They are thicker. Only use genuine ones. You will have trouble with the preload on the centre diff as well with the non genuine ones. For about $30 more it's money well spent.

[steveG]

Definitely a problem with non genuine gasket sets. They are thicker. Only use genuine ones. You will have trouble with the preload on the centre diff as well with the non genuine ones. For about $30 more it's money well spent.

Picked up some genuine gaskets today for the front plate to case, and front plate to front cover (foot).
As you said, they are thinner than the aftermarket ones. Genuine are 0.25mm, and the aftermarket ones I had are 0.41mm.

Re-checked the preload with the 2 genuine gaskets fitted, and as I expected its a little high (~4.5kg) since its approx 0.06 thicker than the aftermarket gasket and temporary glossy paper combination.
Now I just have to track down a 2.375mm shim...

Steve

[steveG]

The next assembly that can be completed and put aside for later is the center diff.

Bearman has already pointed out that the bolts in these are prone to coming loose.
Here is the diff out of my good (ex Stage1-V8) gearbox. You can see the bolt in the middle has almost loosened to the point where the spring washer has uncompressed fully. It wasn't the only bolt that was loose.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/633.jpg

And here is one from a Stage1 Isuzu. The case and rear output housing have damage similar to the photo Bearman posted earlier where the bolts have previously come out and hit the casing. Its been reassembled with new bolts and non-standard washers in a past life:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/634.jpg

Not the best photo angle, but notice that the bolts that hold the 2 halves together don't come out past the bearing, so make sure you've got them all in before you press on a new bearing.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/635.jpg

Before disassembling, mark the relationship between the low range gear and both halves of the diff. They only go together in one position so you cant get it wrong, but will save time when it comes to putting it back together.

Here you can see the spider and drive gears once its taken apart:
There should be a thrust washer between each spider gear and housing (where the screwdriver is pointing), but the only thing that remains of them in this diff is a small ring that you can see sitting on a slight angle on the shaft.
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/636.jpg

Heres a thrust washer that came out of my other diff:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/637.jpg

The spider gears have been running against the housing for a while and you can also see where the drive gear has worn into the rear of the housing:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/638.jpg

Check for wear on the cross shafts, and on the gear teeth. I cant find any limits in the manual relating to shaft wear, so hopefully someone more experienced can give some guidance as to what is OK to re-assemble and at what point you need to replace them.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/639.jpg

There seems to be 2 part numbers for thrust washers. The RRC listing shows P/N 556633, but I've seen elsewhere reference to using FRC6968.
Can anyone clarify whether they are interchangeable, superceded etc:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/640.jpg

Steve

[Bearman]

The crosspin should be replaced if there is any wear at all as this shows up as a lip where the planetary gear runs and allows movement between the gears. The later ones have a crosshatch pattern on the shaft to allow oil to get under the gear and minimise wear. Part number is FRC9030.
Both those numbers are correct for side gear (planetary) thrust washers. I think the first is of steel whereas the latter is brass. Like yours I have sometimes found the brass ones to be non existent when I have dismantled the centre diff. The sun gears (drive gears) also should have a fibre or brass thrust washer under them. These are of varying thickness to obtain the correct preload in the diff. Any wear or slack here relates to a rattle in the transfer case at low speed under power. Also the later type centre diffs have a replacable brass insert under the sun gear.

[steveG]

The RRC parts manual doesn't have any listing for those drive gear shims. Is there a listing somewhere? There's also no mention in the manual of setting the preload in the diff itself (only the bearing preload).
Is there a published procedure somewhere?

Neither of mine had any shims under the drive gears. Should there always be shims?

Steve

[Bearman]

The RRC parts manual doesn't have any listing for those drive gear shims. Is there a listing somewhere? There's also no mention in the manual of setting the preload in the diff itself (only the bearing preload).
Is there a published procedure somewhere?

Neither of mine had any shims under the drive gears. Should there always be shims?

Steve

The shims come in a range of sizes from 1.05mm to 1.45mm in 0.10mm increments and basically you increase size until all freeplay is removed. It's a bit of mucking around and time consuming as you have to insert the shafts/gears/thrust washers, bolt it up (only use half the bolts) and check for freeplay by inserting both shafts into the centre diff and rotating against each other. Using a rattle gun makes it a lot quicker. It should feel firm but NOT tight. Here's a list of the part numbers for the shims
FRC9845........1.05mm
FRC9847........1.15mm
FRC9849........1.25mm
FRC9851........1.35mm
FRC6964........1.45mm
BY the way.......Great tutorial Steve

[Bearman]

Picked up some genuine gaskets today for the front plate to case, and front plate to front cover (foot).
As you said, they are thinner than the aftermarket ones. Genuine are 0.25mm, and the aftermarket ones I had are 0.41mm.

Re-checked the preload with the 2 genuine gaskets fitted, and as I expected its a little high (~4.5kg) since its approx 0.06 thicker than the aftermarket gasket and temporary glossy paper combination.
Now I just have to track down a 2.375mm shim...

Steve

Part number is FRC3658

[steveG]

Thanks for the P/N's and kind words.

I've actually ordered a set of each type of the spider gear thrusts as I they were cheap and I wasn't sure which ones I needed.
Do you prefer one type over the other?

Looking up the part numbers in Google, I get the impression that the LT95 center diff and the LT230 one use a lot of the same parts. Is it just the center gears etc that are common, or is the whole assy the same.

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

I prefer the steel ones over the brass and have been known in some applications to goto the effort of "engraving" a track into them then polishing them up to permit oil flow into them.

same principle as the crosshatched cross piece.

[Bearman]

Thanks for the P/N's and kind words.

I've actually ordered a set of each type of the spider gear thrusts as I they were cheap and I wasn't sure which ones I needed.
Do you prefer one type over the other?

Looking up the part numbers in Google, I get the impression that the LT95 center diff and the LT230 one use a lot of the same parts. Is it just the center gears etc that are common, or is the whole assy the same.

Steve

The internals (gears shafts, shims are the same but a different case is used in the LT230.
As Dave says the steel ones last longer, but I use the brass ones as sacraficial items. You can monitor any wear by the colour of the oil. Any wear on the thrust washers will show up as a brassy look in the oil. If you have a TRB t/case the centre diff shims are the only thing that will show up as brass colour in the oil. With a normal roller intermediate shaft assembly the brass thrust washers will show this as well.

[County4.4]

Great reading
just wondering where you are getting all your Genuine parts, ie bearings and shims from? need to start a lt95 rebuild soon myself.

[steveG]

Great reading
just wondering where you are getting all your Genuine parts, ie bearings and shims from? need to start a lt95 rebuild soon myself.

In my case, from a number of different places depending on what it is and how long I'm prepared to wait to get it.
Genuine gaskets and some shims from Melbourne LR (about 10 mins from where I work so large convenience factor here).
CBC bearings have a listing for the bearings and seals, but dont actually stock a "kit" any more. Most of my bearings have come from there, again - close to work and prices seam reasonable. Can also confirm before you hand over your $$ that its a decent bearing not just a cheap rubbish one.
I got an aftermarket gasket/seal kit from LR parts place via eBay. Might have been CLR but not 100% sure. Have obviously had to buy some genuine ones since then so probably was false economy.
Some lighter/small stuff I've got from LRSeries in the UK as it was much cheaper but their freight can be expensive..

Steve

[djam1]

I get the housing machined down where te drive gear has worn the housing.
I then use the LT230 thrusts to minimise play in the diff centre.\
The LT230 cross shafts are a better design more easily obtainable you just cant use the end gears if you buy the kit because of the finer spline.

[djam1]

Something else I found out recently was that the brass washers that everyone complains about in an LT95 transfer were infact white metal from the factory.
Their construction appears to be very much the same as big ends or main bearings.
You can buy solid brass ones but they are thought not to be as good as the originals.

[steveG]

Something else I found out recently was that the brass washers that everyone complains about in an LT95 transfer were infact white metal from the factory.
Their construction appears to be very much the same as big ends or main bearings.
You can buy solid brass ones but they are thought not to be as good as the originals.

Interesting, everything I've read about them suggests that were bronze from the factory. Both of the ones I have on the bench are definitely bronze, but given that they are nearly 30 y/o boxes, it probably has no bearing on how they left the factory originally.

Steve

[djam1]

I only found out from Kim at Land Ranger Spares in Adelaide when I bought some.
He offered me the choice of either type
I suspect Kim is on this site under another name he may chip in

[wagoo]

The original thrusts were white metal coated bronze, but the coating was very thin from memory.
Wagoo.

[Bearman]

I get the housing machined down where te drive gear has worn the housing.
I then use the LT230 thrusts to minimise play in the diff centre.\
The LT230 cross shafts are a better design more easily obtainable you just cant use the end gears if you buy the kit because of the finer spline.

Hi djam, the pinion shafts are the same item in the later LT95 diff centres (from about 12C serial number I think) and LT230. Part numbers for both is RTC3397 for a matched pair. The bevel pinions and side gears and thrust washers are all the same except the LT230 bevel pinions are machined for fine spline. The side gear thrust washers are available in steel R556633 or brass FRC6968..

[wagoo]

Hi djam, the pinion shafts are the same item in the later LT95 diff centres (from about 12C serial number I think) and LT230. Part numbers for both is RTC3397 for a matched pair. The bevel pinions and side gears and thrust washers are all the same except the LT230 bevel pinions are machined for fine spline. The side gear thrust washers are available in steel R556633 or brass FRC6968..

Brian,you probably got your wires momentarily crossed, but to save confusion and keep this rebuild guide easy to follow, may I suggest we use standard terminology where possible to describe components. If we were describing an axle differential for example, the side gears are the ones with the internal splines, and the bevel pinions are the 4 smaller gears, sometimes referred to as spider gears.What you described in the above post as side gear thrust washers are in fact bevel pinion thrust washers as per one of your earlier posts.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

OK - so here's where I get a bit stuck as I physically haven't got the parts to finish off my center diff, but for the purposes of the guide I'd like to keep moving on.

So...lets pretend we've replaced any parts as required, got the shims and set it all up nicely, and bolted it back together with some medium strength threadlock (eg Loctite 241 ).

As I mentioned earlier, the bolting together needs to be done BEFORE pressing the rear bearing cone back on (otherwise you will have trouble getting the bolts back in).

The low-range gear gear can now be bolted on, and the high range gear and front bearing cone pressed on.

Seems pretty straightforward. Any tips for this stage or any other center diff info that needs to be added before we move on? (we'll deal with setting the bearing preload later once the rear output housing is back together).

Steve

[Bearman]

Brian,you probably got your wires momentarily crossed, but to save confusion and keep this rebuild guide easy to follow, may I suggest we use standard terminology where possible to describe components. If we were describing an axle differential for example, the side gears are the ones with the internal splines, and the bevel pinions are the 4 smaller gears, sometimes referred to as spider gears.What you described in the above post as side gear thrust washer are in fact bevel pinion thrust washers as per one of your earlier posts.
Wagoo.

Wagoo, I wasn't trying to be technical, and yes I described the side gear as the wrong gear.just letting djam know that the LT230 internals are identical except for the splines and not different to the LT95.

[Bearman]

Only thing I can think of that needs attention at this stage is to use loctite under the high range gear and front bearing. Both are usually not real tight on the centre diff housing. This stops wear on the splines and the bearing cone moving on the housing.

[steveG]

Only thing I can think of that needs attention at this stage is to use loctite under the high range gear and front bearing. Both are usually not real tight on the centre diff housing. This stops wear on the splines and the bearing cone moving on the housing.

Thanks - I'd forgotten about that.
I think this is where you've also suggested leaving them slightly loaded in the press overnight to make sure everything stays fully home while the loctite goes off?

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

wagoo, hes on the money.... (ok so he corrected it to the normal way..) but
it depends on if you were bought up on american, english or EURO. mechanicals....

my suggestion is if you have a description issue grab the break down pic of it from the parts manual (RPS) and then have all concerned persons label each part with their own term that way no one gets lost.

an unrelated example so that no-one can get confused.

is it a gudgeon pin, wrist pin, little end and what is it?

[wagoo]

OK - so here's where I get a bit stuck as I physically haven't got the parts to finish off my center diff, but for the purposes of the guide I'd like to keep moving on.

So...lets pretend we've replaced any parts as required, got the shims and set it all up nicely, and bolted it back together with some medium strength threadlock (eg Loctite 241 ).

As I mentioned earlier, the bolting together needs to be done BEFORE pressing the rear bearing cone back on (otherwise you will have trouble getting the bolts back in).

The low-range gear gear can now be bolted on, and the high range gear and front bearing cone pressed on.

Seems pretty straightforward. Any tips for this stage or any other center diff info that needs to be added before we move on? (we'll deal with setting the bearing preload later once the rear output housing is back together).

Steve

Sounds oK for determining preload, as long as the intermediate gear and front wheel drive output shaft and housing are not already fitted, and the intermediate gear would need to be fitted before finally fitting the rear output housing, because the housing locks the intermediate shaft in place. Depending on the high range gearset fitted,for final fitting of the centre diff you may have to hold the front bearing and high range gear in position against the front bearing cup first, and then slide the diff into them.If the front gear of the intermediate gear assembly is smaller in diameter than the middle gear, the prefitted high range gear and bearing may not pass the middle gear to mesh with the front gear If the front output shaft is fitted.Fortunately the high range gear and bearing are just a sliding fit on the diff.Eg .996:1 gears can be prefitted to centre diff and fitted to the case with intermediate gear assembly and front output shaft in place.The 1.33:1 Stage 1 V8 gears cannot. Hope that is not too confusing.

In the interest of clarity and accuracy I've edited this post probably half a dozen times.Is there any way on these type of technical forums to retain the Edit function, instead of it being disabled the following day?
Wagoo.

[steveG]

Great info, and no - not confusing (although I did have to read it a few times for it to sink in).
Great to have the relevant ratio information too.

Will cover the bearing preload as a separate task prior to putting everything back into/onto the case.

Steve

[rovercare]

The RRC parts manual doesn't have any listing for those drive gear shims. Is there a listing somewhere? There's also no mention in the manual of setting the preload in the diff itself (only the bearing preload).
Is there a published procedure somewhere?

Neither of mine had any shims under the drive gears. Should there always be shims?

Steve

That's because not all centre diff's had shims on the side gears, I believe only 110 LT95's did, otherwise its get some and machine the diff housing to take them

[djam1]

That's because not all centre diff's had shims on the side gears, I believe only 110 LT95's did, otherwise its get some and machine the diff housing to take them


You can use the LT230 shims not sure if that helps

[steveG]

<snip>
In the interest of clarity and accuracy I've edited this post probably half a dozen times.Is there any way on these type of technical forums to retain the Edit function, instead of it being disabled the following day?
Wagoo.

I don't think so Wagoo.
I know what you mean, but in general the concept is that the thread evolves from post to post, and editing old posts CAN create a disjointed mess that no longer makes sense (not the case with your edit).
The other issue is the most people will continue reading a thread from where they got to last time, and not expect the previous posts to change.
IMHO, a good way is to quote the original post (or part of the post), and make the clarification underneath. That way people can see what the change is and probably understand better rather than thinking "thats not what I recall reading last time"

When I said that I had to read your post a few times to make it sink in, in hindsight I think the only issue for me was the formatting - that there was lots of info but in a single paragraph - so I had to read it a few times to break it up in my head.

Anyway - enough of my blathering - back to the rebuild :)

Next stage - front output housing.

Steve

[steveG]

The front output housing is pretty simple.

Here's the bare housing - the opening on the side is where the CDL actuator fits:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/512.jpg

Just fit the bearing, circlip, and seal :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/513.jpg

And then the shaft and flange. Use some form of sealant under the washer to stop any oil leaking down the spline (I used some loctite 518). No need to put it all down the splines - just under the washer.
If you need to replace the flange bolts then you will need to press off the mud slinger ring from the flange first, and refit it after fitting the new bolts.

Also, don't forget to refit the 2 dowels into the mounting flange if you removed them.

All assembled (minus the dowels) :

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/514.jpg

Steve

[steveG]

As a side note, the front output flanges are the same on all RRC and 110 LT95's. The only one that is different is the Stage1 box which has much larger flange since it had a double cardan joint in the front shaft.

In my case both of my boxes are from Stage 1's. Since its going into a 110, all I had to change was to remove the Stage1 flange and fit a flange from a 110/RRC LT95.

Steve

[steveG]

Although I'm still waiting on parts for my center diff, now seems like as good a time as any to set up the preload on the center diff bearings.

Fit the rear bearing cone to the assembled diff - making sure that it is fully home against the shoulder (it goes a couple of mm further than flush with the end of the diff).
Fit the high range output gear, and front bearing cone. I found it easier to leave the low range gear off the diff at this stage as it allows you to get your fingers around the side to hold it as you fit it into the housing.

With the case vertical (rear of the case uppermost), lower the diff into position in its forward bearing like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/487.jpg

The next part of the procedure in the manual says to sit the rear output housing (speedo housing) in place without the gasket, and measure the gap between the housing and the case.
Take into account the gasket thickness, then adjust the preload to 0.05mm by fitting the appropriate size shim behind the bearing cup in the output housing. It suggests to fit the original shim as a starting point, and work from there.

I've tried to do that and I reckon the procedure sucks.
The concept is OK, but the practicalities of trying to measure with feeler gauges etc to 0.05mm, on a ~250mm diameter disk that can rock slightly unless you keep steady pressure on the bearings just doesn't make it easy.
Surely there has to be a more practical way.

Since there aren't any shafts etc fitted at this stage (only the diff itself), is there any reason you cant set it up in a similar way to the layshaft bearings - ie just sufficient preload to get a slight increase in the force it takes to rotate the diff?

Steve

[wagoo]

Having spent a lot of time rebuilding diffs for a living I just sort of developed a feel for preload resistance without instruments, and would do as you suggest with a bit more resistance for the centre diff than the layshaft due to the diff having larger bearings.

I've always reckoned that there are not enough bolts holding the rear output housing onto the case.(The Japs would use twice as many) so on occasion if the client agreed I would drill and tap a few extra holes around the bottom half of the housing.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

I bolted it up with the gasket just to see what it was like. Definitely took out the "spinning freely" feeling that it had before I bolted it down, but going by the feel of the layshaft, it needs just a touch more.
I've got some gasket paper thats just a touch thinner than the current one, so I think I'll just make one up, fit it and see how it feels. Will measure with a spring balance just for something quantitative.



<snip>
I've always reckoned that there are not enough bolts holding the rear output housing onto the case.(The Japs would use twice as many) so on occasion if the client agreed I would drill and tap a few extra holes around the bottom half of the housing.
Wagoo.

Why just around the bottom half? Just to keep it clamped well from a leaks perspective?

Steve

[wagoo]

Why just around the bottom half? Just to keep it clamped well from a leaks perspective?

Steve

I knew you would ask that.Around the bottom half has the desired clamping effect to reduce oil sweating through when hot. Extra bolts around the top half as well may be better and easy to do during the overhaul stage, but just makes it a little more difficult and time consuming to access all the bolts when later servicing the centre diff in the vehicle with the hand brake assembly still fitted.
Wagoo

[steveG]

Well, I made up the slightly thinner gasket (.05mm thinner) and bolted it up.
Just a nice feeling preload now. A little bit of drag but can be turned with a finger and thumb around the high range gear.
Using a spring balance its a nice smooth 3kg to keep it moving with the string wrapped around like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/485.jpg

Thats roughly the same force as the layshaft preload, but considering that its on a larger diameter shaft (about 70mm compared with 50mm on the layshaft) its a slightly higher torque.

Think I'll leave it at that.

Steve

[wagoo]

Another tip I just remembered ,(Sorry ,its been 5 years since I last worked regularly on landRovers and my memory is on drip feed) On hard worked and abused vehicles, it was found that the output housing bolts required regular retightening to reduce weapage. After a while the threads in the alloy housing would wear and sometimes strip.Replacing the bolts with studs and nuts is one way of addressing the issue while providing greater clamping force.What I found easier and possibly better was to buy bolts 13mm longer and plain nuts.Run the nuts all the way up to the head of the bolt.Screw the bolts all the way into the housing, then tighten the plain nuts against the output housing.I never had a bolt work loose after doing this, although there was still some weepage until I drilled and tapped the extra bolt holes mentioned earlier.
Wagoo.

Edit, Just noticed on the photo of your transfercase that the second selector shaft detent ball is about to escape.

[steveG]

...
Edit, Just noticed on the photo of your transfercase that the second selector shaft detent ball is about to escape.

I might LOOK like its about to escape, but its not going anywhere :D
Spent about 15 mins with magnets, WD40 etc trying to get the sucker out when I disassembled the box. It must have a burr on the edge of the hole that's preventing it coming out, and since the spring is still good behind it I figured I'd just leave it there.

Good info on the bolts. With normal bolts, is there any benefit in using loctite on the threads, or some form of sealant on the gasket?

No problem with the drip feed info. I'm trying not to move on from each section too quickly - for exactly that sort of reason.

Steve

[wagoo]

I did originally try loctite on the bolts but they still loosened, or did they lose their tensile strength and stretch from temperature extremes ? I really don't know, but the longer bolts and locknuts did address the issue.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

While I was putting the rest of the speedo drive housing together tonight I found this little gem right at the end of the section (ie after you have followed all the the steps to reassemble it).

Alternative Rolling Resistance Method In-Situ
With front prop shaft disconnected, and rear drive flange removed, a rolling resistance of 6 to 7kg pull should be obtained using a spring balance (cord wound around differential).

Unfortunately I found that AFTER I'd fitted the rear flange and brake drum so I'm not going to measure to compare with my 3kg without the front housing.

Steve

[steveG]

The rest of the speedo housing reassembly is pretty straightforward.

Couple of things to note:
Firstly, the seal shouldn't go fully home against the bearing circlip. The manual says to drive it in until its only just past the chamfer on the housing.

I screwed this part up and pressed it in all the way as I didn't read the manual until later. I've checked where it sits on the seal and it seems fine to me. Will see if it leaks in service I guess.

The oil catcher that bolts on below the seal needs to have sealant between it and the backing plate. This is so that any oil that leaks out will make its way out the little drain hole in the backing plate, and not into the brake assy. (Good theory :p )

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/398.jpg

The original design has a felt seal under the flange retaining washer.
I threw that out and just used some loctite 518 under the washer to stop any oil getting down the splines. I also used some thread lock on the nut itself as I've read of numerous cases of the nut coming loose.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/399.jpg

Finally, assemble the rest of the handbrake and adjust it. Fit the speedo drive assy and that's it (still need some rubber plugs for the adjuster holes in this photo).

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/400.jpg

Steve

[steveG]

Time to assemble the front bearing plate and input shaft.

First, press the bearing into the housing and locate the retainer plates (replace the plates with new ones if they are worn):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/193.jpg

Next press the bearing (complete with bearing plate) onto the input shaft.

It was then that I discovered that my u-beaut 12T Supercheap press wasn't physically tall enough to take the input shaft :(
No problem, I'd just sit the input shaft on the bench and drive on the bearing using a hammer and a piece of pipe down over the shaft and onto the inner race.
Was working great until I noticed that the bearing had migrated about 8mm out the back of the bearing plate (as the retainer plates had come loose).
At this stage I was pretty committed to continuing - with the bearing half on the shaft, half in the plate, and no way of disassembling it that didn't involve hammer impact on the rolling elements of the brand new (expensive) bearing. Add the additional complication of loctite on the outer race and a warm day.....

Finally after much clamping, drifting, sweating, swearing and hammering it was all together properly.

So either use a big enough press, or if that's really not an option, clamp the bearing securely in the front plate after fitting it.
This could easily be done using the normal retaining plates bolted through some temporary pieces of flat steel on the front side of the bearing plate.

Once its all together you can then fit the appropriate size shim and the circlip to retain the shaft in the bearing.

The assembled plate, bearing and shaft (note that the layshaft bearing cup was fitted earlier when we set up the layshaft bearing preload):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/194.jpg

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

Prior to conducting this step its vital that you check where the bearing seats into the plate for any signs of fretting. especially if your old retainer plates were worn.

[steveG]

Thanks Dave.
This box was OK, but the one that came with my 4bd1 was pretty bad. Retainer plates were worn, and the bearing had worn approx 0.5mm into the front plate/oil pump housing.

In the case where it has been fretting slightly but the bearing is still a press fit, is there anything else that can be done to help longevity other than fitting the bearing with some decent retaining compound and crossing your fingers?

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

providing the bearing still sits nicely you only need to loctite it to stop the outer race from moving loctite 641 is the best bet if its only got a little bit of fretting

if you can easily spot the turn marks and you can push it in and out without too much more than hand effort then you need to up the game a little and go for the 648 or the 603

if the bearing is a slide in slide out job with no requirement to use any kind of tooling then you need to head for the 660 if your this far into it you should also been cleaning down and then surface prepping with 7471 or 7649.

if you're beyond that its time to get the bearing housing oversized by a machinest at a +1mm radii and have him then make up an interferance fit collar.

[steveG]

The next job I did was to fit the rear mainshaft bearing into the case.

Here it is here - bearing and circlip fitted.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/53.jpg

Wagoo posted this good info recently in another thread:http://www.aulro.com/afvb/90-110-130-defender-county/95550-who-knows-lt95-well-3.html

<snip>
The bore in the casing for the mainshaft bearing is deep and a.tight fit.The bearing has to be drifted in past a circlip groove, and at this point it is easy to cock the bearing in the bore and if it isn't squared back up before drifting it home you can damage the bore to the extent that the bearing is a loose fit and may spin in service.Advice here is the heat up this area of the casing well, before attempting to fit the new bearing..
<snip>


I used the old bearing to drive in the new one - just ground a bit of the outside race of the old one so it was a loose fit in the bore. With heating up the case and putting the bearing in the freezer things went quite smoothly.

Fitting the seal was where I had trouble. I tried to use the same old bearing to drive it in, but ended up distorting the seal. Its a very tight fit in the case and you have to use a fair bit of force to drive it home.
Second time around I used something with wider face to drive it in.
One if the reasons I stuffed it up the first time was that the face of the transfer case is not perpendicular to the bore of the bearing/seal.
When I thought it was in place properly, I checked with a mirror and found it was still about 1-2mm away on one side - even though it LOOKED nicely seated from outside.
Finally got it seated - but with the final blow - the lip spring came off :mad:
Gave me something new to do for the next 10 mins before it eventually popped back on.
On the RH side of the photo you can see that the seal is sitting lower than the surface, but its just flush on the LH side.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/54.jpg

Almost time to start putting it all back together :clap2:

Steve

[Bearman]

As a side note, the front output flanges are the same on all RRC and 110 LT95's. The only one that is different is the Stage1 box which has much larger flange since it had a double cardan joint in the front shaft.

In my case both of my boxes are from Stage 1's. Since its going into a 110, all I had to change was to remove the Stage1 flange and fit a flange from a 110/RRC LT95.

Steve

Steve, Something to look out for here is that the stage 1 box has a longer front output shaft and front output housing than the 110 and RR box. If you are going to use this box in a 110 you will probably have to use the stage 1 drive flange and front driveshaft or make up a shorter front shaft.
Another trick with the mainshaft seal is to tilt it slightly in at the top as you fit it and it will go in easier. As you have noticed the housing where it fits is tapered in thickness. Putting the rear main bearing in the freezer for a while before you fit it is usually sufficient to get it in the housing without needing the housing heated up.

[steveG]

Steve, Something to look out for here is that the stage 1 box has a longer front output shaft and front output housing than the 110 and RR box. If you are going to use this box in a 110 you will probably have to use the stage 1 drive flange and front driveshaft or make up a shorter front shaft.
Another trick with the mainshaft seal is to tilt it slightly in at the top as you fit it and it will go in easier. As you have noticed the housing where it fits is tapered in thickness. Putting the rear main bearing in the freezer for a while before you fit it is usually sufficient to get it in the housing without needing the housing heated up.

That would explain why the RR front shaft I got that that should have fitted - didn't. It was about 20mm too long. Luckily I was checking with the front springs out and sitting on the bumpstops or it probably would have fitted but bound up on compression.
The proper 110 shaft (P/N FRC4799) fitted OK.

Steve

[steveG]

Assuming you've already stripped the mainshaft, inspected and sourced any parts as required.
Now its time to put it back together.

The synchros can be a bit tricky to assemble, but I found the easiest way for me was to set them up so there was a slight side load on the spring, hold the inner and outer parts, then at the same time push the ball on and push the sliding blocks under the outer ring.
They seemed to stay in this position reasonably well while you worked on getting the next one in, and once all 3 were done you can centralise the whole lot and it becomes stable.

If you don't lose any of the balls, then you're doing better than I did - I lost 2.
Do yourself a favour and accept that you will lose some, so buy a few spares when you're at the bearing shop. They are only a few cents each.

Here's a photo of my starting position before pushing the ball in. You can see the spring bent over slightly - it really wants to sit under the outer ring - which it will do once you push the ball in:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/15.jpg

There is a small cup seal in the front end of the mainshaft - make sure you replace it (you can also see how the assembled synchro should look):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/16.jpg

Assemble all the other parts onto the mainshaft (except the rear spacer, output gear, shim and circlip - as these go into the transfer case).

It should now look like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/17.jpg

At this stage, I put the gearbox case up on the bench and stood it up vertically, front of the box at the top.
Its now just a simple matter :wasntme: of lowering the shaft and gears into the case and through the rear main bearing. The problem is that there is a web/bridge in the case that prevents you lowering it straight in, so you have to drop first gear and its bearings in first, then assemble them back onto the shaft inside the box.
Don't use the outer synchro rings as handholds or you risk them coming apart and disappearing into the shed somewhere (at which point you start again).
Its just a fiddly job and you have to persevere until it all drops into place. You'll know when it does as the front end of the shaft will be below the face of the case, and you wont be able to slide first gear up the shaft any more.

At this stage you'll be quite glad it looks like this:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/18.jpg

Now, from the transfer case side, slide on the spacer (with some loctite to seal it), the output gear, appropriate size shim, and fit the circlip.

I modded my spacer with a small dab of weld to prevent it turning on the shaft. The weld sits into the shaft spline. Apparently this is one of the causes of oil migration from the transfer to the main box as the rotation pumps oil down the shaft. Another way of achieving the same thing is to make a pin that fits in one of the holes in the side of the spacer - and locates in the spline.
To me the dab of weld was much simpler, and will achieve the desired result.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/19.jpg

And all assembled (actually still need to fit the circlip):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/01/20.jpg

Steve

[wagoo]

Just a couple of points at this stage Steve.
If the synchro hubs have been dimantled, in many instances they won't reassemble just on any splines.Either mark the hub and collar before dismantling,as shown on your front view photo of 3rd/4th synchro or try assembling one spline at a time to find a match that slides together smoothly before fitting springs and balls.
Question. are you going to have section on how to identify components that may need replacing?

Anyone following this rebuild guide would realize by now that aside from the transfercase internals, these are not the type of transmission that lends it self to being fixed up at the bottom of some remote sand dune or similar, so in the interest of vehicle and occupant survivability I offer an untried and tested modification suggestion.
I have never owned a vehicle with an Lt95, but thought if I ever did that I would look at modifying the front of the mainshaft and the input shaft to accept either a taper roller bearing to replace the parrallel roller pilot bearing, or fit a torrington needle thrust bearing behind the parrallel roller bearing.
I've seen quite a few mainshafts where the spline segments have broken off behind the circlip groove that retains the t/case mainshaft gear in place,allowing the mainshaft to float forward with disastrous results.I feel the afore mentioned modification would relieve the circlip of some of the hammering it cops from the main gearbox gears from drive to coast.In the event of a circlip or groove failure only the mainshaft gear could float(this could be addressed too)rearwards in reverse gear,but the main gearbox shouldn't suffer any damage.
Wagoo.

[Blknight.aus]

Do not accept that you will loose some of the balls during assembly. They will turn up in the most inconvenient of places like in the race of the bearing you have installed or down under the cup of a seal that doesn't have a shaft in it or in the intake port to the oil pump or.........

most of these have very very entertaining results, providing you dont own the vehicle it happens to.

if you cant assemble them without loosing the balls go and purchase some of the very large ziploc bags or a matress bag or something large plastic and clear, insert all the parts into that and then assemble it inside the bag.

on doing the weld thing on the spacer while it works is not a good idea.. welding hot enough to get a good penetration may distort the spacer and welding cold enough leaves the chance of the weld popping off. A roll pin and the use of a medium bearing mount (603) to secure both the pin and the spacer during final assembly is a safer bet.


to aid lowering the shafts in I use hootchi cord wrapped around the bottom of the shaft and wrap the cord round my wrist so that the weight of the shaft is on the cord and my hand controls the movement of the shaft once its in just unwind the cord and then it will sit down neatly.

[steveG]

Wagoo:

Yes, I should have documented the inspection stage straight after the teardown. Probably best to leave it now and cover it at the end as a separate section after the reassembly. Not ideal but better than mixing it with the remainder of the reassembly.
I've actually completely assembled this box now (just catching up on the documenting), but have another, somewhat tired, ex Stage1 Isuzu box stripped on the bench that will go back together as a spare so I should be able to supply pictures of both good condition, and well used parts..

I'm very interested in the mainshaft failures you've seen, as I haven't come across any info on it being an issue.
Was there any particular pattern to the failures - eg high HP engines, competition work, aggressive driving style, large tyres, lots of towing, high mileage vehicles etc, or were they just random failures.
I could see that in worn boxes where the clearance on the mainshaft had increased that there could be resulting impact loads on the circlip, but wouldn't have thought it would occur on a box in reasonable condition.

Steve

[steveG]

Do not accept that you will loose some of the balls during assembly. They will turn up in the most inconvenient of places like in the race of the bearing you have installed or down under the cup of a seal that doesn't have a shaft in it or in the intake port to the oil pump or.........

most of these have very very entertaining results, providing you dont own the vehicle it happens to.

if you cant assemble them without loosing the balls go and purchase some of the very large ziploc bags or a matress bag or something large plastic and clear, insert all the parts into that and then assemble it inside the bag.

on doing the weld thing on the spacer while it works is not a good idea.. welding hot enough to get a good penetration may distort the spacer and welding cold enough leaves the chance of the weld popping off. A roll pin and the use of a medium bearing mount (603) to secure both the pin and the spacer during final assembly is a safer bet.


to aid lowering the shafts in I use hootchi cord wrapped around the bottom of the shaft and wrap the cord round my wrist so that the weight of the shaft is on the cord and my hand controls the movement of the shaft once its in just unwind the cord and then it will sit down neatly.

Good point about the final location of the missing balls. I'll 'fess up to being a bit cavalier about losing them and also to having mentally rewound the entire reassembly to convince myself that the little suckers weren't inside the box somewhere. I'm happy that I know where each one went - just they aren't retrievable without a lot of effort (and they aren't in the g'box).
The zip-lock bag idea is a great one.

With pinning the spacer - would you put the roll pin in one of the extractor holes, or drill a separate hole?
Reason I ask is that the extractor holes are slightly larger than the spline grooves, so a roll pin isn't going to go fully into the groove unless you taper it slightly on the end. Maybe the chamfer on the end of the roll pin is enough - but just didn't seem quite right when I looked at it.

I accept the theory, but reckon you'd have to go pretty hard to distort the spacer with a small bit of weld. Its a pretty solid item and I've seen them with fully welded pins in an extractor hole with no dramas.

With the hootchie cord (admit I had to Google it to confirm what it was), can you actually get the shaft in with the 1st gear fully up the shaft?
Seemed to me that the gear would still be too high up and hit on the case bridge when you tried to get the shaft through the rear bearing.

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

In the past I've drilled a seperate hole and pinned through that, this leaves the extractor hole good to use later if you need to.

you can drop the shaft in with the gear in place past the web but trust me its a tetris slidey game you dont want to play with. its easier to insert the firstgearset then slide the rest into place. ( you have to have the gear assembly down on the splines of the shaft one hand in the gap where the layshaft goes and the other coming in through the top cover to support the shaft assembly by the gears and not the 4th syncro.) its easier to drop it in in sections using some improvised tooling.

theres a couple of ways of inserting the first gear set, usually I hang them all on a figure 8 of wire thats had the bottom cut and turned outwards slide them down squeeze the wire and they all sit in place, a bit of fiddling with a scribe will get a nice eyeball line then drop the rest in place.

you can also slide them up a wooden dowel poke the down in place through the back bearing then slide the gearset down and use the dowel to center everything up before sliding the rest into place.

when it comes to sliding the mainshaft assembly into the first gearset you can also use dental floss, 5-10 turns around the whole assembly (go around the bottom and as you pass up past the gears lay the floss in the vallies between teeth then over the top and down through the teeth around the bottom again. keep all the turns on one side of the shaft so that you can unwrap it in one piece I find it easier to drop it down into the layshaft area.

on the welding front... that comments aimed mainly at beginners who may not have a mig and might be tempted to try it with a stick welder. A competent welder should be able to spot in a plug weld and not fill the hole up to the point where the extractor wont grab the sleeve.

[wagoo]

Wagoo:

I'm very interested in the mainshaft failures you've seen, as I haven't come across any info on it being an issue.
Was there any particular pattern to the failures - eg high HP engines, competition work, aggressive driving style, large tyres, lots of towing, high mileage vehicles etc, or were they just random failures.
I could see that in worn boxes where the clearance on the mainshaft had increased that there could be resulting impact loads on the circlip, but wouldn't have thought it would occur on a box in reasonable condition.

Steve

Thinking back,for every vehicle I had to rebuild the transmission on, there would have been 6 trans that came in for overhaul as exchange units, so it was difficult to ascertain individual working conditions on each I box saw.
For every vehicle that suffered a mainshaft failure of this type there were probably hundreds, maybe thousands that didn't.But having seen quite a few failures, and noting the consequences, bearing in mind that these are big heavy one piece transmissions that are extremely difficult to remove from the vehicle to affect bodge repairs in a remote location,I would personally attempt the suggested modification at the overhaul stage if I planned on doing a lap of OZ or crossing the Simpson etc.
I simply couldn't afford the towing bill or to pay another mechanic to fix up the truck in some place like Birdsville.
The modification if feasible would increase my peace of mind level by a couple of hundred percent.
I've got some bits in the shed. I'll measure them up when I get home, and see whatsuitable size bearings are available.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

Thinking back,for every vehicle I had to rebuild the transmission on, there would have been 6 trans that came in for overhaul as exchange units, so it was difficult to ascertain individual working conditions on each I box saw.
For every vehicle that suffered a mainshaft failure of this type there were probably hundreds, maybe thousands that didn't.But having seen quite a few failures, and noting the consequences, bearing in mind that these are big heavy one piece transmissions that are extremely difficult to remove from the vehicle to affect bodge repairs in a remote location,I would personally attempt the suggested modification at the overhaul stage if I planned on doing a lap of OZ or crossing the Simpson etc.
I simply couldn't afford the towing bill or to pay another mechanic to fix up the truck in some place like Birdsville.
The modification if feasible would increase my peace of mind level by a couple of hundred percent.
I've got some bits in the shed. I'll measure them up when I get home, and see whatsuitable size bearings are available.
Wagoo.

What about just modifying the rear circlip groove so that its deeper and therefore less likely to shear off. Maybe deep enough so that it actually goes into the solid part of the shaft (ie deeper than the splines).
That part is a larger diameter than the roller bearing in the rear cover, so probably wouldn't decrease the strength of the shaft itself.

My thought on modifying the front end of the mainshaft is that if the mod fails you're probably just as screwed as if the back end failed.
Given the relatively low failure rate you've indicated above it might actually decrease the box reliability.

On the boxes that you worked on, were there cases of partially failed/cracked splines in that circlip area, but that hadn't resulted in a full failure? If so, then a regular inspection of that area (easy to do) would likely detect an impending failure.

Steve.

[wagoo]

Generally, any transmission shaft that is subject to bending loads will concentrate stress at sharp corners or the transition points of changes in diameter.That was the reason old series1, 2 and 2a layshafts used to fatigue and break, not due to torque loading.
Because the mainshaft gear on the LT95 is so far back from the main gearbox rear ball bearing, the roller bearing in the PTO cover plate has to resist considerable side loadings. Reducing the diameter of the circlip groove is fraut with danger of the shaft snapping off at the groove.(also seen series mainshafts snap off at the retaining nut thread)
Can't really see a problem with the modification failing. R380s have had taper roller mainshaft pilot bearings since day one.
Talked to a friend of mine yesterday, whose 101 transfercase I rebuilt about 10 years ago. At the time I noticed that the rear side of the circlip groove was developing a taper, with a real danger that end thrust could cause the circlip to expand and pop out of the groove(seen that a few times too)He was heading off on an extended outback trip the following day, and there was no time for a full trans rebuild,so I machined up a steel ring that fitted to the front of his pto shaft, that snuggly encircled the circlip to prevent this occurance.The trans is still going strong but IMO this still doesn't address the possibility of the spline segments breaking off.
In answer to your last question. Yes I have seen the occasional shaft where only one or two spline segments had broken off, and as you know a visual inspection via removal of the PTO cover or bottom plate is straight forward.

As I mentioned earlier, the percentage of failure is quite low, and many LT95 equipped vehicles have covered hundreds of thousands of KMs including deserts and mountain ranges without incident, and had I not been in the LandRover repair game I would also be blissfully unaware of potential problems.

[steveG]

Onto the front cover plate.

The front cover plate houses 4 things:
- oil pump
- oil pressure relief valve
- oil delivery ring (to get oil into the mainshaft)
- the input shaft seal

The input shaft seal is pretty straightforward, but an improvement recommended to me was to fit a Viton seal.

The oil delivery ring originally comes with 3 holes drilled axially in the face, and 3 drilled radially.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1221.jpg

I'm told a common mod was to either slot the axial holes, or to drill more of them to allow more oil through.
This one was done for me by Fred Smith in Melbourne. You can also see the viton seal in this photo.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1222.jpg

The ring should be a press fit in the bore, and definitely not loose - the one from my ex-Isuzu box had been spinning in the housing and just fell out. There is also a particular orientation - the center radial hole should line up with the oil delivery hole in the bore.

The screw below the oil delivery ring is the oil pressure relief valve. There are limits in the manual for how far below flush it can be.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1223.jpg

Here is the cover plate fitted to the front bearing plate. I missed getting a photo later on with the oil pump fitted, but you can see where it sits in the recess in the plate. I fitted new pump gears and steel shaft but it probably wasn't necessary. The new gears were definitely a lot tighter in the housing though.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1224.jpg

Don't actually fit the oil pump just yet - leave it until after you've got the front plate fitted to the case.

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

your interpretaition of my terminology is abit off.

the main box is the main box
the leg is the bit that holds the Tcase geards
the Foot is the bit that holds the diff.

[steveG]

your interpretaition of my terminology is abit off.

the main box is the main box
the leg is the bit that holds the Tcase geards
the Foot is the bit that holds the diff.

Sorry Dave - I've just removed the reference so it doesn't cause any confusion.

Steve

[steveG]

The front bearing plate and layshaft can now be assembled into the case.
You need to assemble the layshaft and bearing plate together before attempting to put them into the case. I put the layshaft in a vice, offered up the bearing plate on a bit of an angle and with a bit of wriggling got the input and layshaft gears to mesh and the layshaft to seat into the bearing cup.

You then lower the plate/layshaft assembly into the case. I found it helpful to have a helper at this stage as I just didn't seem to have enough hands to hold it all together and lower it in gently.

Fit the two large locating dowels, and the studs. The top 2 studs need to have some loctite/sealant on them when fitted as their holes go right through into the case.
You cant fit the bellhousing yet as the selector shafts have to go in first, so I temporarily used nuts and large thick washers to hold the front plate on until the selectors are fitted.

Fit the oil pump, gasket and cover plate:
Make sure the cover plate is flat. If its not you can use some medium wet and dry paper on a sheet of glass to get it flat.
If the oil pump you are using has a steel shaft, the shorter square end goes into the pump gear, and the longer end goes into the layshaft.
Before you fit the oil pump cover, make sure that the the oil pump turns smoothly when you turn the mainshaft.

I used some thread lock on the oil pump cover bolts as they are known for coming loose. The ones on this particular box were not much more than finger tight when I pulled it apart.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1076.jpg

At this point I laid the box down again so I could continue to fit the reverse gear/shaft and the selectors.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1077.jpg

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

depending on the type of gasket you're using dont forget to apply a sealant to the gaskets prior to the final assembly.

I use hylomar #3 (or one of the many vairents thereof)

paint the gasket with the stuff and let it sit for at least half an hour so the goop can seep into the paper. Another point that hasnt been covered yet (and the oil pump reminded me) is to "paint" all the surfaces of the steel bits with oil as you assemble the box to help prevent rust and to provide initial lubrication.

Dont be shy with the application of the oil on the pump gears themselves as this aids the initial prime up of the pump.

its also a prudent idea to check trueness of the mating of the faces of the pump housing and cover plate without the gaskets or the internal parts fitted especially if you suspect that you have had an oil leak there previously.

[Bearman]

You then lower the plate/layshaft assembly into the case. I found it helpful to have a helper at this stage as I just didn't seem to have enough hands to hold it all together and lower it in gently.


If you remove the layshaft bearing cup from the front cover plate it makes it a bit easier to fit it all together but don't forget to refit it (and the shim) after you have it all together.

[steveG]

Fit a new O-ring to the reverse gear shaft, and insert the shaft into the case and through the gear (selector slot on the gear is towards the rear of the box).

The reverse gear o-ring is a known leak area between the transfer and main boxes, so I used a bit of loctite sealant to seal between the shaft and the case. To get the loctite in there without ending up with it in the reverse gear bearing, I just pushed the shaft in slightly past where it needed to sit, applied sealant around the rear end of the shaft and pulled the shaft back into place. This made sure the sealant was around the shaft.
Loctite is also required on the retaining bolt threads.

This photo shows the shaft and gear fitted.
You cant actually fit the selector arm until the selector shafts are in the box - which is the next step.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1057.jpg

Steve

[steveG]

Time to fit the selectors.

The manual is quite clear on the assembly order, orientation and adjustment of the various parts so I wont repeat that info.

A few useful hints from my limited experience :

- Don't refit the old roll pins - new ones are cheap to buy and definitely have more grip than the old ones.

- mark the position of the selector forks along each shaft before sliding them into the box. Makes it a lot easier to try and line up the holes to drive the roll pins into the shaft

- there are 2 interlock plungers that go between the center and outer shafts (one on each side of the center shaft), and an additional smaller diameter one that goes through the center shaft. This isn't very clear in the manual.

- you must keep the fitted shaft(s) perfectly in neutral position while you fit the next shaft, or the interlock will prevent you getting the next shaft in.

- as well as following the assembly order closely, sit all the shafts, forks etc in place (including reverse) before finally driving the roll pins home (rather than fitting one shaft and its forks at a time). Otherwise you'll likely find you have a part that you cant get into place without pulling it all apart again.

- the spring loaded gate on the reverse selector is much easier to fit the spring to if you open it right up and rest it against the top of the case. Fti the spring onto the shaft, then onto the gate. Once the spring is on, just flip it over into position.

The reverse selector arm can now be fitted. The lockwired bolt that is threaded into the case also screws into the selector.
You want to get as much engagement of the selector foot as you can without the selector foot being too tight against the gear.
I found the easiest way to adjust it was to hold the selector against the gear, screw the bolt in until it touched, then back it off until it engages the thread. From there just tighten it up until the bolt is tight against the case.
Once you are happy with the adjustment, undo the bolt a couple of turns (without going too far and dropping the selector arm off the end) and apply some thread lock and tighten it up again.

Here's a couple of photos that were actually taken during disassembly, but they show how everything should end up.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1055.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1056.jpg

The detent balls and springs can now be fitted and the selector cover and gasket bolted in place. The reverse spring is different to the other two (heavier spring according to the manual).

The reverse gear cover can also be fitted. Don't forget to lockwire the pivot bolt to prevent it turning.

At this stage I also fitted the reverse gear switch and the gear lever (temporarily), then made sure I could select all gears and the switch worked correctly (on when reverse selected).

Steve

[wagoo]

Steve, before you get back to the transfercase, would you mind taking a 3/4 front on photo of the range change hub on the intermediate gear and the high range gear ? Jumping out of high range, sometimes violently enough to jump straight into low range is not uncommon, so wear diagnosis of these components and various solutions to the issue probably should be discussed here.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

Steve, before you get back to the transfercase, would you mind taking a 3/4 front on photo of the range change hub on the intermediate gear and the high range gear ? Jumping out of high range, sometimes violently enough to jump straight into low range is not uncommon, so wear diagnosis of these components and various solutions to the issue probably should be discussed here.
Wagoo.

No problem.
Here's a general photo - give me some feedback on what we're interested in and I'll take some better ones.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/981.jpg

Steve

[wagoo]

Thanks Steve. Looking for tapered wear on the male and female dog teeth on the range selector and high gear. LandRover in there infinite wisdom always deleted every second male dog tooth, and shortened every second female one.What this means is when you change from low back into high range you have a 50/50 chance of engaging a short female tooth.Depending on how many kms the vehicle is driven on the shorter teeth this can promote relatively rapid tapered wear on both male and female teeth.
Maxidrive used to offer a Bronze thrust washer set of different thicknesses so that you could get more dog tooth engagement in high and low range my moving the high and low range gears closer to the range change hub. I've used these with some success, but i've also done other things to address the problem that i probably shouldn't go into here on a straight overhaul thread.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

Gotcha.
I'll get some better photos tomorrow night. I've got a few intermediate sets here so will be interesting to see if any of them are badly worn.

Steve

[steveG]

Wagoo - hopefully these are what you are after:

From my ex-Stage1 Isuzu box:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/950.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/951.jpg

From the ex-Stage1 V8 box:

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/952.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/953.jpg

And a hi range gear of unknown origin (was in a box of bits I got):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/954.jpg

They all look OK to me (unknown origin one has a bit of wear on the teeth but to my inexperienced eye would still be OK).

I'll leave it to you to comment/explain further.

Steve

[wagoo]

Thanks Steve.The dog teeth at the 9 and 10 o'clock position of the gear in photo #1 clearly shows the witness marks on the overun side of the tooth from occasionally driving on the short female tooth/spline. There is a matching witness mark evident on the female tooth/spline of the range change hub in photo #2 at about the 3 o'clock position.The sides of the teeth appear parallel, but if they show a positive outward taper they will tend to pop out of range.Even with parallel sided teeth they can pop out if intermediate gear assembly endfloat is not kept in check, because when accellerating from overun to drive the middle gear and the high gear push away from each other and can drag the teeth out of engagement.If that gearset were mine I would flip the range change gear 180 degrees so that it is running on the opposite side of the tooth/spline.This can be determined by looking at the helical teeth. The more polished side of the teeth would have been the former drive side, the less polished the overun side. flip the gear so that the less polished teeth become the drive side.
Wagoo.

[steveG]

Thanks Wagoo - great info.

That #1 gear wont be going back into anything as its actually worn the hardfacing off the bore on one side. Not particularly clear, but faintly visible on the far side of the bore in that photo. The hardfacing has also gone from the intermediate shaft, and embedded itself into the bronze thrust washers. Glad I'm not relying on refitting that set..

Would flipping a range change gear result in any extra/unusual noise with a "new" surface against an old worn in one?

Steve

[wagoo]

Thanks Wagoo - great info.

That #1 gear wont be going back into anything as its actually worn the hardfacing off the bore on one side. Not particularly clear, but faintly visible on the far side of the bore in that photo. The hardfacing has also gone from the intermediate shaft, and embedded itself into the bronze thrust washers. Glad I'm not relying on refitting that set..

Would flipping a range change gear result in any extra/unusual noise with a "new" surface against an old worn in one?

Steve

I must be getting old timers diease :( I had a couple of paragraphs in my head when I was typing that last post, but they didn't make it.:mad:
The first thing I was going to mention is that the dog teeth on an unworn gear are manufactured with a slight back taper so that they pull in to engagement, so a gear with parallell teeth is already half worn. doesn't mean they will automatically jump out of gear of course. But there is less margin for error re endfloat.
The second thing to mention is that flipping the range change gear may result in a little extra noise for a few thousand KM until the helical gear teeth get to know each other. you can speed up the process with lapping paste, but that involves removing the gears after for cleaning and then reassembling a second time.
Wagoo.
Edit. another thing to look out for is that the pins that hold the range change collars together are still tight. If they have worked loose on an otherwise servicable gear, I ''re rivet them'' on my hydraulic press by pressing a bearing ball against the end of the pins.

[steveG]

The manual is quite detailed in regard to the intermediate shaft, and the order that all the parts go back together so I wont regurgitate that here.
Its pretty much a case of assembling the stack of gears, bearings spacers and thrust washers, getting them into the case and then inserting the shaft.

Once its all in place you need to check the clearance between the rear thrust washer and the case. The gap is adjusted by substituting different thickness thrust washers.

Sorry - no photo of just the intermediate shaft.

Steve

[steveG]

The center diff and speedo drive housing can now be fitted, followed by the transfer selector shaft.
There is a detent spring and ball that needs to be fitted before the shaft is inserted fully, and another detent ball, spring and spacer rod that is fitted from the top after the shaft is in place.

The selector forks can now be fitted. One has a roll pin, and the other has a pinch bolt so you can adjust the clearance between the fork and the intermediate gear assy.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/858.jpg

The cross shaft and selector finger can now be fitted.
There is a plastic/rubber spacer between the finger and the casing. I've heard that you can substitute some rubber hose - fitted with a bit of compression on the rubber and it helps dampen out the transfer gear lever vibrations.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/859.jpg

Just for interest, this is what can happen to the finger after its been shaken to death by an Isuzu for 25 years. The one on the left was behind an Isuzu, the one on the right was from a V8 (both Stage1's):

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/860.jpg

Steve

[steveG]

Is there a reference point for setting up the transfer cross shaft so that the lever sticks out of a 110 seatbox the correct amount?

The RRC manual that I've been working from for the rebuild obviously doesn't show anything useful in that respect.

I've got this photo that I took prior to stripping the box, and it shows the lever roughly lined up with the screw head in the cross shaft retaining plate.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/625.jpg

I'll probably just pull the cover off and adjust it when its in the car, but wondering if there's a better way while its on the bench.

Steve

[Bearman]

Providing the lever is in the correct position when it was removed from the vehicle you can mark the lever and cross shaft before dismantling, to get the correct position for reassembly. From memory the position you mention sounds correct.

[steveG]

Providing the lever is in the correct position when it was removed from the vehicle you can mark the lever and cross shaft before dismantling, to get the correct position for reassembly. From memory the position you mention sounds correct.

Thanks Brian. I think the photo above before disassembly will be the postition I finally end up at, but thought there might have been some dimension like "end of lever 10mm forward of transfer case" or similar.

Yes - I would have marked it before disassembly except I'd read the manual and it described how to set the correct position (except I didn't click then that it only applied for RR's).

Steve

[steveG]

The things left to do at this point are to fit:
- diff lock collar
- front output housing
- diff lock actuator
- bell housing
- clutch release arm/pushrod/bearing

They are all pretty straightforward assembly tasks.

Only a couple of comments from my experience..

Sucking with your mouth is enough to engage/disengage the diff lock, so its a worthwhile test to do at this stage to make sure its working OK. If it doesn't engage by itself after a decent suck you might have to rotate one of the output shafts slightly to allow the locking collar to engage.
Test the diff lock switch is working correctly while you're at it (should be a circuit between the 2 pins with the diff lock engaged, and open circuit when disengaged)

As well as the clutch release arm and bearing, don't forget to fit the pushrod before refitting the box to the engine. Its a PITA to try and fit once its back in the car - but IS possible :angel:

The bell housing needs some sealant around the 3 selector arm holes at the top of the housing.

BTW - the rubber washer that goes on top of the gear lever ball (red part in photo below) - is it available as a separate part or do you need to fabricate one?
Looks like someone has just made this one up in the past.
If you have to make one - whats the best material type?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/602.jpg

Steve

[Blknight.aus]

yep they can be had. or you can template one up out of any oil stabilised rubber of suitable thickness.

[steveG]

yep they can be had. or you can template one up out of any oil stabilised rubber of suitable thickness.

Anyone know a P/N. Can't find it listed separately in the parts lists I have.

Steve

[Bearman]

Anyone know a P/N. Can't find it listed separately in the parts lists I have.

Steve

I am away from home atm but will dig out the p/n when I get home tomorrow arvo. Most parts manuals don't list it.

[Bearman]

Anyone know a P/N. Can't find it listed separately in the parts lists I have.

Steve

The part number is R622387
The rubber boot that fits over the gear lever and seals around the top of the box is 90576646

[steveG]

Awesome - thanks Brian.

Steve

[rrc80]

hey guys, i know its a old thread but where did you's get the books/manuals on how to rebuild them?

Cheers, Andy

[steveG]

hey guys, i know its a old thread but where did you's get the books/manuals on how to rebuild them?

Cheers, Andy

The LR Rave manuals have the gearbox info in them. LT95 info is in both the RRC manual and the early 110 ones. Buy a CD with them on from the AULRO shop at the top of the page.

[Landie333]

I'm loving this thread. It is helping me out alot in my rebuild (it's current;y sitting in bits on the bench, while I clean all the parts and get seals/bearings) of my LT95, as I'm a newb to the box and to Landys. Thankyou to all.

I have a few questions. What manuals are best inregards to rebuilding the gearbox/TC? I saw in earlier posts some references to manuals, but no real names. Also who are the best suppliers to purchase them from? I'm still trying to build up my Land Rover supplier contacts.

Many thanks.

[steveG]

Easiest way is to buy one or both of these CD's from the Aulro shop:

Dave's Interesting Things - RRMAN70-85 (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=6)

Dave's Interesting Things - LANDYCD (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=3)

First one is only Rangie, but has the parts manual, and the second one also has defender, disco and more, but no parts manual.

Steve

[Landie333]

Easiest way is to buy one or both of these CD's from the Aulro shop:

Dave's Interesting Things - RRMAN70-85 (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=6)

Dave's Interesting Things - LANDYCD (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=3)

First one is only Rangie, but has the parts manual, and the second one also has defender, disco and more, but no parts manual.

Steve
Awsome. Thankyou


Anther question for all and this might be something to add to the thread, what are the possibilities of the clutch and or handbrake shoes being asbestos lined? It is something that was just posed to me. I'm unsure of what year asbestos was removed fom clutch/brake linings in AUS. If they wern't asbestos lined, do the shoes from earlier models fit in the LT95 handbrake that might possibly have asbestos in the shoe linings?

Many thanks

[slug_burner]

Legislation and Exposure Standards

Use of asbestos

Schedule 2 of the National Model Regulations for the Control of Workplace Hazardous Substances allows for the prohibition of use of specific substances where the risks to employees' health are significant and where no other control is adequate. In 2001, Schedule 2 was amended to include chrysotile asbestos so that from 31 December 2003 it is illegal to use, re-use or sell any products containing any form of asbestos in Australia. State and Territory legislation has been updated accordingly. Importing or exporting of asbestos is also banned. The ban does not apply to asbestos products that are already in place but when they are replaced, non-asbestos alternatives must be used. Any stockpiles of asbestos-containing products must be safely disposed of. There are a few exemptions that apply for a transitional period only for some uses of asbestos where no safe alternatives currently exist. Contact WorkCover for further information on exemptions.

[Landie333]

Hmmm. Ok. Thankyou. So I dare say the clutch and handbrake shoe friction material does contain asbestos.

[Distortion]

Bit of a tread bump but this seems like the best place to ask.

I'm in the process of sourcing a TRB conversion for my LT95 in my 110
The GB isn't the factory one(should be an lt85) and I believe is a short shift LT95 from a rangie. I'm trying to work out if this would have the .996 ratio in it. it sits at considerably lower revs than the LT95 in the stage one for an equivilent speed to the point where 1st feels to tall on 32s.

Is the best way to check this
Jack the vehicle up
Drain the oil
Take the cover plate off
Count the teeth on the gear attached to the center diff looking for 45/26
Reassemble in reverse


Cheers
Rob

[captainslow]

Is the best way to check this
Jack the vehicle up
Drain the oil
Take the cover plate off
Count the teeth on the gear attached to the center diff looking for 45/26
Reassemble in reverse


Rob,
Yes, that's how I would check it. This is what I believe are the options:-

LT95 Serial Numbers355-XXXXX Suffix

355 Suffix A & B RRC71-76 1.174:1 47/32 teeth
355 Suffix C RRC77-80 1.113:1 48/31 teeth
355 Suffix C RRC80-81 1.1227:1 43/28 teeth
12C RRC 82-85 .966:1 45/31teeth
Stage 1 Series III 1.336:1 40/31 teeth
Other 1.000:1 50/29 teeth
My Stage 1 (ISUZU) has the 1.336 and this is no-where near tall enough without the overdrive. Still looking for a set of .966 transfer gears.

If you find a source of the TRB kit for the LT95 I'd be very keen to know.

Cheers
Pete

[Distortion]

Just checked

Mine is 12C08533A which would suggest the correct ratio

The set I've located is second hand from a forum member assuming all goes well you could prob get the 996 gears out of my 110 if you wanted them as I won't use the series for cruising any where so there seems little point in putting them into that

also found the following site
http://www.range-rover-classic.com/Home/land-rover-brochures/range-rover---australia

which lists these
Manual Transmission 12C with integrated transfer case LT95
- 4 speed and transfer box, - central differential lockable
high (1.0000 - 12C00001A to 01060A) - From Feb 1981
high (0.9962 - 12C01061A -on) - From Sep 1981
and low (3.32) ratio.
Gear ratios:
1st. 4.069; 2nd. 2.448; 3rd. 1.505; 4th. 1.0; R. 3.664

[Cappo]

Hello all from a Brit who's new to this forum, and new to rebuilding the LT95!

I've a long tale of gearbox woe to tell one day, but I have a short and hopefully easy question:

Does anyone know the bearing reference for the big roller bearing on the input shaft?

At this stage I'm planning just to replace that - the rest of the box works fine, apart from a whine when the clutch is let out (regardless of whether it's in neutral or a gear is selected) so I'm crossing fingers that it's that big roller bearing. I can spin it up once I've changed it and see how it sounds - next step would be layshaft bearings, which I thought would also be easy until I realised that the mainshaft has to come out, with all the selectors and reassembly grief that can bring! Still, at least if I do have to do it, I'll have plenty of reference here.

So, just that bearing ref would be great if anyone knows?

[steveG]

Welcome to the forum!

I've found the following in my notes, but can't confirm 100% that its correct.
Should give you a place to start though, or perhaps someone else can confirm:

593619 ==> pinion bearing

Pinion bearing RHP MJ1.2/2
MJ1.1/2 RHP A MJ1.1/2 E inner diam38.1 --- outer diam95.25 --thickness23.812 Single-row deep groove ball bearing, open type, inch series

Steve

[Cappo]

Thanks Steve, have tracked one down using that RHP reference! :thumbsup:

[westy1]

Howdy Y'all ,I need some guidance ta.
Replaced the lt95 speedo housing rear mainshaft seal recently,and while there replaced drum brake shoes.
The seal was allowing oil into the brake drum area,so handbrake non effective or so i thought.

The speedo housing has always leaked so replaced the gasket and used decent threebond sealant and left it 18 hours to set.
re installed and still seeps when hot.
Twice i've done this gasket replacement with the same result.small puddle on garage floor overnight,,aargh.
Are the mating faces possibly warped 'the lipped speedo housing cannot simply be sanded flat'thoughts..

My dilemma is after doing this work i now have a shudder felt thru steering wheel that definitely feels like driveline out of balance .
Wasn't there before i undertook this work,and havent touched anything else bar front tyre pressure which i will drop back to compare.
I didn't tighten the speedo housing large nut,but will check it for correct torque.
The book talks of shims available to offset the new thicker gasket for bearing pre load.
I couldn't find exactly what they are called,nor a part number to order them,any idea here?

On removing the speedo housing second time i still had the drake drum on so fairly weighty, gently tapped to release the speedo housing while prying it to release the siliconed gasket and the entire presumably centre diff pulled out with it,,crikey

I tried to reseat it to no avail,so removed the entire shaft unit to get a better idea how to guide it back.
A gear fell of the end as i layed it down,i had a close look and looks like and fits like a symmetrical gear,so 50/50 it went back on same side up.
Question if it is symmetrical does it matter if it got flipped?

Guided the shaft and gears back in to a point where the shaft had to pick up the bearing half,and by shear luck by rotating gently it picked up the bearing and reseated ,phew...
q2:Is this a major that it pulled out?


All back together ,and i see the brake drum has been drilled during balancing at factory,and the rear propshaft balanced then also.
As both rotating masses i presume the drum doesn't have to be reset the same orientation to maintain balance?

Is there a way to adjust the handbrake lever throw on an lt95 early range rover classic?
I can adjust the transmission brake shoes so they aren't binding.
If the adjustment screw is backed off further from holding the drum,under heavy normal braking the car still shudders,and backed off further until it doesn't shudder,the handbrake is no longer effective on a slope!

I have seen this before with new shoes but not this bad,so wanted to adjust the handbrake lever throw but it's all linkages and no cable adjustment.
The link arms have two threaded locking nuts,and adjusting these makes little difference,no reference to any of this for adjustment i can find in two door classic manuals or lt95 literature..any experience here?

With the handbrake backed off entirely,negated effectively,the driveline shudder is still there,so wondering if something i have done has thrown the balance out,harmonic at 50km,then again at 85km/h?
Cheers Westy

[350RRC]

Sounds very much like your handbrake is slightly on.

DL

[donh54]

Did you mark the flanges / drum to ensure everything went back the way it was?

[westy1]

Yes the drum seems warm after a run even with the pads released so its turning freely without brake on.
Almost like its catching the drum in a single spot if turned by hand.
Took the drum of today,and the entire transmission brake mechanism swings about that top pivot bolt so thought after some use it should centre.
I didn't re fasten the shaft nor drum myself initially no,the guy who did did not mark the positions,but since have rotated the shaft and drum with markings to try various positions,to no avail as yet.
My transmission mount look seriously squashed on one side,newish tho,may see whether the bolt has snapped which would upset balance,but wasn't doing it prior to rear seal and new pads.
How important is the pre load on the rear main,? would this cause imbalance issues if the clearances are just out?
With drum off today,i cannot feel any forward back movement in the rear shaft.

[Bearman]

Yes the drum seems warm after a run even with the pads released so its turning freely without brake on.
Almost like its catching the drum in a single spot if turned by hand.
Took the drum of today,and the entire transmission brake mechanism swings about that top pivot bolt so thought after some use it should centre.
I didn't re fasten the shaft nor drum myself initially no,the guy who did did not mark the positions,but since have rotated the shaft and drum with markings to try various positions,to no avail as yet.
My transmission mount look seriously squashed on one side,newish tho,may see whether the bolt has snapped which would upset balance,but wasn't doing it prior to rear seal and new pads.
How important is the pre load on the rear main,? would this cause imbalance issues if the clearances are just out?
With drum off today,i cannot feel any forward back movement in the rear shaft.

G'day westy, firstly with the oil leak, it is possible that the oil is coming out there if you have a blocked breather - have you checked it. Also the seal surface on the drive flange should be flat and burr free.Also did you use the later type double lipped seal. There is an oil catcher that is supposed to be under the drive flange to catch any oil that leaks past the seal and redirect it out the bottom front of the handbrake backing plate. It should be bolted in by the 2 bottom bolts that hold the handbrake backing plate onto the rear output housing. And for it to work effectively it should have sealant under it except for the bit that fits over the slot where the oil hole is. In a perfect world no oil should get on the brake shoes even if the rear seal leaks but we all know that doesn't happen. That nut on the rear of the shaft should be tensioned to about 65 ft/lb and also have sealant under the flat washer to seal against the splines otherwise it will leak there. When you pulled the rear housing off and the centre diff came out with it the gear you are taking about that fell out would be the hi range gear that fits on the splines on the front of the diff, then there is a bearing and then another locking collar that operates the diff lock. When you pull them apart you are supposed to "lock" the centre diff first before you pull the centre diff out otherwise the collar will fall off the splines on the front output shaft and make it very difficult to reassemble. The small hi range gear has to go back on with the flat surface of the gear against the shoulders of the splines on the centre diff - you should be able to see the wear marks where they mate together. The front of the gear has a circular flange thingo on it which fits against the bearing. This gear and the bearing should be loctited onto the centre diff assembly. The preload on the centre diff is important and is determined by the shims that fit under the bearing race on the output housing. There is a preload figure but basically the centre diff should have a little resistance to rolling and not be loose or easy to roll. No way it would cause unbalanced issues unless it was very loose. When you refitted the centre diff did you have to rotate it around a bit to get the locking dog onto the centre diff. I'm thinking that maybe the locking dog is not engaged on the splines and has been pushed forward when you refitted the centre diff and is out of balance. Have you tried checking that the diff lock is working correctly. The position of the handbrake drum should not cause any balance problems no matter what spot you fit it back on.

[westy1]

Gidday bearman:) ta for the reply.yes to all the first half,used the double lip seal which is for the lt77 but fits a treat.
Took due diligence as per manual,silicone behind oil catcher and left a channel etc.
and no further leaks anywhere near brake drum:)
That seep from speedo housing looks to always be in the same place.left side facing forward towards pto cover mid oil level.
Although I used 400 sand paper to prep the surface, there is a small scratch in the alloy in that area, did my best but still had a slight burr edge and presumed
the silicone should have filled it easy, not so well it seems.

Many thanks for the detailed explanation of what I had removed.
i reseated the gear on the splines after first trying it against the sprocket to see which way fitted,seemed fine both ways so still 50/50 on this.

Also looked at the gears front edge and saw the flange that the bearing must sit on to centre it,so hopefully have it the right way around, hard to recall exactly when under the car.
Yes, I reseated the centre diff and rotated the unit applying pressure to hopefully pick up the other half of the bearing shell until it slid back in place .
On re installation the slight shudder is no worse than before the initial change out,so hoping that centre diff hasn’t added to it and it does rotate with some resistance but doesn’t spin:)

Good to know that the preload won’t necessarily be the cause,did wonder as new gasket plus a layer of silicone but there’s no push pull free play I can feel.
also Speedo needle is not jumping anymore so the housing nut has to be tighter than it was.

Will test the diff lock tomorrow and report back:)
Do you use a silicone bead spread around the gasket or dry fit.
had good success using it with water pumps etc previously.
Tap and die further holes may be a last resort.like the idea.
Have found a compromise transmission brake setting so car doesn’t shudder hot under brakes and get semi useful hold on slope with handbrake at full on.
Still think it’s binding a tad,maybe brake shoes need to wear down some,or the entire drum isn’t sitting centred exactly any more.
Really like that it is solid linkages to the handbrake lever,classic retro Land Rover,but had hoped there was some adjustment somewhere.
Love the Lt95,it’s crap in traffic but so used to it now,I don’t even think about it,and can have knee replacement before gearbox replacement ;);)
cheers Westy

[Bearman]

I use loctite 518 sealant on all gaskets but only a smidgeon on ones where you have set a preload otherwise you will change the preload. I am thinking that oil leak might be coming from the O ring that seals the intermediate shaft to the casing. It will leak there and follow the edge of the rear output housing down and appear to be coming from the rear housing. Clean the area around the intermediate shaft up with petrol and take it for a run and see if the oil is coming from there. If it is you can either seal it up with a ring of RTV sealant around the shaft or pull it apart and put a new O ring in. I am guessing which way you will go !!!

[westy1]

Just had a good look and it may be exactly where the leak is coming from.
Surprised as that's above the filler level so would be splash only,but was wet below that point ,so good troubleshooting cheers Brian.
The reason I got a landie mate to do it originally was that I didn't have a large enough socket to hand,can you recall the size for the housing nut.
I presume that shaft is on a thread,if so does the o ring seat against the back of the housing,bit gunshy after the last excitement;)
Activated diff lock today,felt like it was working?light on etc not that this guarantees anything,but heard the vacuum pulling the lock into place.
Didn't seem to make it handle any different tho like all four were locked up after a quick test drive 1st/2nd.
Cheers westy

[westy1]

Second try with diff lock on,I have a steep gravel long driveway and in diff lock the outside wheels used to skip around the tightest corner,and steering tightened up,now I cannot deceptively notice a difference,so may not be engaging,,
Distinct possibility when I reseated that centre diff it didn't pick up the collar as Brian pointed out,seeing it was unlocked aaaargh.

[Bearman]

Just had a good look and it may be exactly where the leak is coming from.
Surprised as that's above the filler level so would be splash only,but was wet below that point ,so good troubleshooting cheers Brian.
The reason I got a landie mate to do it originally was that I didn't have a large enough socket to hand,can you recall the size for the housing nut.
I presume that shaft is on a thread,if so does the o ring seat against the back of the housing,bit gunshy after the last excitement;)
Activated diff lock today,felt like it was working?light on etc not that this guarantees anything,but heard the vacuum pulling the lock into place.
Didn't seem to make it handle any different tho like all four were locked up after a quick test drive 1st/2nd.
Cheers westy

30mm is the socket size for the rear output shaft nut. If yours is a RR box it will have a roller bearing intermediate shaft with a pin through the gears/bearings. What you can see sticking out the back is the pin and it has an O ring on it just inside the housing. Believe me you don't want to pull that pin out unless you are doing a rebuild so I would suggest you clean up around the pin and put some RTV sealant around it. That is the easiest way unless you want to spend about a day dropping the sump and removing the intermediate shaft - they are a pain in the proverbial to get back in place. Easiest way to check if the diff lock is working is to jack a front wheel up after you have engaged it and check if you can turn the wheel.

[westy1]

Ta Bearman,ok will sort it and many thanks for the assist here.
Must have been very satisfying to do the full rebuild on one of these I’d say.
Cheers :BigThumb:

[asmit]

Has anyone else considered adding spring washers under the bolts holding the center diff carrier-halfs together?
Seems odd to me that the low range gear bolts have spring washers but not the diff carrier.
Of course all bolts will get the loctite 263 treatment...

[Homestar]

Bearman to Isle 3 - assistance required. [emoji106][emoji16]

[asmit]

nevermind that, for what it's worth loctite is marketed as a replacement for spring washers, and in some cases better performing.
Make sure you clean out the threads before using it though!

After researching to make sure I apply it properly, I have confidence it's not coming apart.

here is my quick-n-dodgey layshaft bearing race removal tool (4mm steel cut with grinder and a m12 thread tapped.) maybe I was lucky it did not put up much of a fight [biggrin]

166287

[asmit]

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier in this thread, but thanks to Brian for telling me what to look for in terms of worn parts on the LT95 mainshaft:
- thrust washers typically don't show wear as they are case hardened, if you can feel a grove at all with your fingernail replace them
- syncro rings, you want the face of the syncro ring to sit as close to the face of the gear cone as possible