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View Full Version : Running a Winch rope from the middle?



Mudhog1974classic
31st January 2011, 06:15 AM
Hi,

I'm going to be fitting a winch in to the middle -back of Mudhog.

My question is what have other people done for running the rope?

Pictures would be good.

Thanks

Brett

THE 109
31st January 2011, 06:42 AM
Have a look at foers winch as fitted to Ibex's.

Mudhog1974classic
31st January 2011, 10:55 AM
Hi The 109,

Any chance you have some pic's of the set up's?

Tried Google and couldn't really find any pic's!:(

Has any one in Aussie got one of these set up's?

Cheers
Brett

Loubrey
31st January 2011, 12:09 PM
Not Australia based, but Devon 4x4 in the UK run a competition tray-back with a winch setup.

10 - Rear winch cradle (http://www.devon4x4.com/index.php?option=com_k2&view=item&id=14:10-rear-winch-cradle&Itemid=46)

Might be a bit extreme for your application, but it might give you ideas. There is quite a selection of photos of their comp vehicles.

Cheers!

flagg
31st January 2011, 07:32 PM
I think the LR 101 Forward Control's use a central PTO winch which can be cabled front or rear. Could be worth pointing to this thread from the FC's / REMLR section.

uninformed
31st January 2011, 08:00 PM
due to differences in chassis and vehicle design AND the fact the winch was outboard of the chassis rail, the 101 set up is not really aplicable to normal control rovers

blitz
31st January 2011, 08:44 PM
both Blitz's and Unimogs did. Ok not a landy but it can be done.

I don't have the mag as I usually use them as compost but i remember a 4x4 mag showing a comp rig with a centre winch. Hopefully this jogs someones memory

123rover50
1st February 2011, 07:16 AM
I have 3 centre mounts. A Ramsey hydraulic on the 110 FC. A Thomas hydraulic on the 6x6 FC and a Thomas electric on the 120 ute.

Mudhog1974classic
1st February 2011, 11:19 AM
Hi 123rover50,

How have you run the rope up to the front?

Any chance of some photo's?

Any information would be a great help.

My Rangie has got a 50mm body lift and I have had a good look under neath and can see the way I think the rope will go. I'm just not sure of what to run the rope in?

What about the heat from the exhaust!! Is this going to be a problem?

Cheers
Brett

weeds
1st February 2011, 11:41 AM
are you wanting to winch in both direction or just forwards?

windsock
1st February 2011, 12:17 PM
Hey Mudhog,

Check out this thread on my 8000lb Thomas mid-mount (http://www.aulro.com/afvb/technical-chatter/88840-thomas-pto-12v-electric-winch-3.html). I have used it over the summer as a simple rear facing winch as a temporary firewood gathering job. Over the next little while i may well finish to go both rearward and forward. Bit hard to finish things on part time work wages though.

Cheers

Lotz-A-Landies
1st February 2011, 12:42 PM
I think the LR 101 Forward Control's use a central PTO winch which can be cabled front or rear. Could be worth pointing to this thread from the FC's / REMLR section.The 101 winch is actually a capstan winch that has a limited rope length and can not be fitted with the poly ropes.

Mudhog1974classic
1st February 2011, 02:29 PM
I think just forwards at this stage, if I look at entering a Winch Comp later we may alter it so that we can use it backwards as well.

Cheers
Brett

Mudhog1974classic
1st February 2011, 02:42 PM
Hi Windsock,

I had a Thomas PTO and still have all the spec sheets somewhere.

If they can be of help, just let me know and I'll send you a copy.:)

Cheers
Brett

uninformed
1st February 2011, 08:43 PM
The 101 winch is actually a capstan winch that has a limited rope length and can not be fitted with the poly ropes.

what do you mean by capstan winch?
why would there be any difference in steel or rope if the same dia??? I believe they had a low rating also???

123rover50
1st February 2011, 08:52 PM
Hi 123rover50,

How have you run the rope up to the front?

Any chance of some photo's?

Any information would be a great help.

My Rangie has got a 50mm body lift and I have had a good look under neath and can see the way I think the rope will go. I'm just not sure of what to run the rope in?

What about the heat from the exhaust!! Is this going to be a problem?

Cheers
Brett
The 120 ute runs a crane and only winches from the back.
The 2 FC,s have a pulley on the corner. Not much help on a Rangie but I will get a pic tomorrow.

Mudhog1974classic
2nd February 2011, 04:24 AM
I was hoping that one of the Guy's with a Comp truck might have something like this on there trucks and be able to help .:D

Mudhog has been of the road for two years with some repair work needed.

Here's a list of the things I've done:

New front body mounts we made( old ones had a 60mm rust hole in them)
New rear body mount cross member( the one the back door hinges on)
New sills both sides made by a friend( he own's a truck body building company)
Removed the Lpg plumbing and regulator( including a large 85ltr tank)
Replaced the front brake calipers (1 pistons seized on each side)
Fitted new brake pads and bleed the system
Fitted a 50mm body lift ( From Rovertym in the USA- I would make my own next time!!!)
Replaced both doors with second hand ones ( old doors had rust around the hinges)
Replace the rear lower tailgate with a second hand one ( old one was full of rust)
Fitted rubber flares and cut more away in the guards to fit the 35 inch Silverstone MT-117 Xtremes.( replaced the LRA Fibreglass ones as I kept breaking them!!)
Rebuilt the front passenger side corner after hitting a tree on a club run( this was the final damage that started the repairs)
Replaced rear passenger side corner panel.( had been damaged at sometime)
Replaced the front seat's with second hand one's( I have no back seat)
Rewired the rear lights and tided up the wire at the same time.
I had to panel beat the floor around the hand brake, with the 50mm lift this was the easiest way to get the hand brake handle sitting in the right place.
Low and High lever needs to be lengthened- this didn't come in the kit!!

I'm going to be going for a WOF ( Warrant of Fitness over here) tomorrow, so I'm checking over everything that might be a problem!!!

Thing's still to do once I have a WOF:

Make up rock sliders
Remake the front and rear bumpers
Fit my winch (mid mounted Twin motor job!!)
Work out what sort of rollcage I need
Make up inner door panels and change the inside handles to something smaller(looking at using Disco 1 inside door handles)
Get the truck painted as it is 3 different colours:(

It will be Great to able to go out in the Hog again, my almost 3 year old daughter can't wait. I told here that I couldn't drive Mudhog because he didn't have a WOF and she has been reminding me constantly about the fact!!

Don't you just love Kid's

She now call's Mudhog her and Dad's truck!!

Cheers
Brett

windsock
2nd February 2011, 06:39 AM
Hi Windsock,

I had a Thomas PTO and still have all the spec sheets somewhere.

If they can be of help, just let me know and I'll send you a copy.:)

Cheers
Brett

Cheers Brett, I downloaded the info from Danny on here. Keep the updates coming on your LR. I've noticed you will be trialling the twin motor tigerz thing. Will be interested to see how it goes speed and reliability wise.

All the best,

Phil

Lotz-A-Landies
2nd February 2011, 08:50 AM
what do you mean by capstan winch?
why would there be any difference in steel or rope if the same dia??? I believe they had a low rating also???there are two main types of winches in respect to the rope: the drum winch, the type we know, where the rope end is fixed to the drum and the rest of the rope length stored on the drum by winding in like a cotton reel.
The capstan winch, has it's rope stored somewhere else, is usually like a rotating bollard and the rope is wrapped around the bollard a couple of times and held in tension on the bollard to enable drive. In the 101 capstan, the reason the rope type is important is the clamping mechanism that holds the tension on the bollard. Sailing ships have capstan winches.

An Aeroparts capstan winch for Land Rover - where a hemp or sizal rope is wound around the bollard. (the LR 101 winch is enclosed)
http://img505.imageshack.us/img505/2010/series2winchlf3.jpg

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2013/09/366.jpg

wagoo
2nd February 2011, 02:33 PM
there are two main types of winches in respect to the rope:

the drum winch, the type we know, where the rope end is fixed to the drum and the rest of the rope length stored on the drum by winding in like a cotton reel.
The capstan winch, has it's rope stored somewhere else, is usually like a rotating bollard and the rope is wrapped around the bollard a couple of times and held in tension on the bollard to enable drive. In the 101 capstan, the reason the rope type is important is the clamping mechanism that holds the tension on the bollard. Sailing ships have capstan winches.


The 101 winch I spose could be described as a capstan winch with a driven storage drum. Not 100% familiar with them but beleive that they are sensitive to adjustment of the clutch that drives the light roller chain that in turn drives the storage drum, so as to avoid the drum from being subject to pulling loads.A friend of mine with a 101Camper is replacing his Kockums (SP?)winch with a self built front mounted wormdrive PTO unit mainly due to concerns over kinking the chassis rail in a heavy winching scenario.The pulling loads on a 101 winch are cantilevered outboard of the left hand chassis rail which despite external appearance are not made from railway lines.We believe the winches original purpose was for precise positioning of artillary guns and light self recovery only.The other concern was if you are winching another vehicle or load up a steep hill, and for some reason you need to press the clutch pedal, the load will tend to roll or slide back down the hill because the winch gearing is not self locking like a worm driven unit.

I've searched to no avail the various 4wd forums that i've been involved with for a photo of a Hybrid Rover I built some years ago with an electric centre mounted winch with a pulley arrangement at the rear and guide tubes to the front for 1:1 ratio front pulls and 2:1 rear pulls, without any need to rethread the rope.I'm also agisting a hybrid with a pto centre mounted winch with a similar arrangement, but I'm an Internet retard and don't have the gear to post photos.
Wagoo.

isuzurover
2nd February 2011, 02:58 PM
The 101 winch I spose could be described as a capstan winch with a driven storage drum. Not 100% familiar with them but beleive that they are sensitive to adjustment of the clutch that drives the light roller chain that in turn drives the storage drum, so as to avoid the drum from being subject to pulling loads.

I've searched to no avail the various 4wd forums that i've been involved with for a photo of a Hybrid Rover I built some years ago with an electric centre mounted winch with a pulley arrangement at the rear and guide tubes to the front for 1:1 ratio front pulls and 2:1 rear pulls, without any need to rethread the rope.I'm also agisting a hybrid with a pto centre mounted winch with a similar arrangement, but I'm an Internet retard and don't have the gear to post photos.
Wagoo.

Bill, I think we need to all chip in to buy you a digi cam and give you a tutorial on how to post pics...

I think I can dig up some pics of nigel's vehicle...

Btw - this seems like a complex way to do the same thing (using what appears to be a capstan concept):
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1324.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1325.jpg


EDIT - here you go Bill:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1326.jpg
To save a copy for yourself - right click on the image and then click on "save image as" or "save target as", then save it to your computer.
To post images you can either upload them on here to your post, or do what I and many others do and set up a photobucket account, save them there and post them on here using {IMG}http://image_web_address.xyz[/IMG] (replace first curly brackets with square ones).

wagoo
2nd February 2011, 04:51 PM
Thanks again Ben. I got to page 131 on outerlimits Rover forum before I found the article, only to discover that the photos no longer existed.Had one of those photobucket type accounts once, but it wasn't maintained or viewed within a certain period the account expired and all photos gone to god.
I was surprised that was way back in 2004!:o I'll have to withdraw the digit and get a life before it's too late.:)
Wagoo.

isuzurover
2nd February 2011, 05:12 PM
Thanks again Ben. I got to page 131 on outerlimits Rover forum before I found the article, only to discover that the photos no longer existed.Had one of those photobucket type accounts once, but it wasn't not maintained or viewed within a certain period the account expired and all photos gone to god.
I was surprised that was way back in 2004!:o I'll have to withdraw the digit and get a life before it's too late.:)
Wagoo.

Bill - sounds like you need to improve your searching skills ;)

e.g. go to advanced search, then enter your username in the username box, and a word like "winch" in the search term box. That will bring up every thread where you have mentioned the word "winch". If you leave the search term field blank it will bring up a list of all your posts.

I found the image because I had remembered answering someone's post on OL about a centre mounted winch, and Bush65 had posted that pic which he had obviously saved and uploaded to his photobucket account. So I searched for my username and "winch"

wagoo
2nd February 2011, 05:26 PM
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1324.jpg
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1325.jpg


EDIT - here you go Bill:
https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/1326.jpg


The wire rope feeds itself onto the drum neatly enough on both the electric and PTO winch equipped vehicles.The powered pay out speed of the PTO winch is slow enough for the winch man to keep up in difficult terrain as he is running the rope out to the anchor point, but free spool is easier.The powered payout speed of the 6hp Warn hi mount electric is a bit quick, and recently on a winching exercise the rope outpaced the winchman and got tangled up on something underneath and then snapped when attempting a self recovery.Because the winch is hidden with a full body fitted, paying out should really only be done with the drum at free spool.The hybrid with the PTO winch is a Comp style trayback, and the winch is quite visible to keep an eye on whats happening under there.
Wagoo.

windsock
4th February 2011, 07:13 AM
The wire rope feeds itself onto the drum neatly enough on both the electric and PTO winch equipped vehicles.The powered pay out speed of the PTO winch is slow enough for the winch man to keep up in difficult terrain as he is running the rope out to the anchor point, but free spool is easier.The powered payout speed of the 6hp Warn hi mount electric is a bit quick, and recently on a winching exercise the rope outpaced the winchman and got tangled up on something underneath and then snapped when attempting a self recovery.Because the winch is hidden with a full body fitted, paying out should really only be done with the drum at free spool.The hybrid with the PTO winch is a Comp style trayback, and the winch is quite visible to keep an eye on whats happening under there.
Wagoo.

On my one I am planning to lay a piece of 50mm x 50mm mesh plastic garden netting stretched between the first snatch block and the winch in a tight hammock to catch the rope if it goes slack enough to drop. I had thought about making a plywood cradle but it would be a dust and mud trap. The plastic netting will be fixed in place using cable zip-ties and will be easy enough to replace insitu if damage occurs. It is really only going to come into contact with the rope if the rope goes slack between the winch and the first snatch so as to stop just the problem you outline above. By being plastic only, it will not damage anything if it falls through into the drive train.

nick b
17th September 2013, 09:43 AM
Has anyone been using this style mid mount setup recently?

Has it been wire or Synthetic?

Like the fact the wire won't tangle as easily if being used as mid mount.

Don't like the weight of running wire, would rather run Synthetic rope.

Was thinking of getting a Sherpa 2 speed large drum style winch or a used High mount to gain the extra length lost in running mid mount.