Carrying Gas Bottles in or on Defender

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Hi All,
Im considering taking the BBQ away with me on my next trip but arent sure about the laws / regulations for carrying gas bottles here in Oz.

Id like to lay the bottle on its side on the roof rack (strapped down obviously!!). Any problems with that?

Also, if I have the bottle inside the car, presume it makes sense to keep it vertical with valve closed and regulator off, but are there and laws / regs that say you cant carry them inside a vehicle??

What about in the tray of a double cab 110?

Thanks
Jon

[justinc]

I think Jon that as long as it is under a certain size, eg 9kg (?) and it isn't a permenent installation eg caravan oven/ cooktop etc, then you can carry it inside the vehicle or outside in a safe place without any problems. Otherwise if it were a permanent installation, then it will have to meet gas installations in recreational vehicle standards etc etc...

not 100% sure if this is the same australia wide?

JC

[85 county]

get a milk crate, a 9kg bottle fits well. the strap it on the roof rack.

personly not a fan of having the bottle inside

[one_iota]

These are the Qld requirements:

http://www.dme.qld.gov.au/zone_files/petroleum_pdf/info_cylindertransport.pdf

I don't imagine you can go wrong following these elsewhere.

[DeeJay]

There are different "laws" for different states.
AFAIK, across Australia, you can carry 2x 9kg in a seperate vehicle enclosure (ie boot) for the purpose of refilling or exchange. Carriage of cylinders in the passenger compartment is a no no. ( ie Defender wagon) although there is no longer brochures or available data on this. LPG recently went from 2WE to 3YE, so petrol regulations may apply.
Laying down of cylinders is also a no no as the relief valve must be able to vent off vapour, & laying it down puts the relief valve under liquid.
Thats not to say these rules aren't regularly broken. I was with 2 energysafe inspectors before Christmas when a Qld plated 4wd parked opposite us with 2 x 4.5 kg bottles strapped to the roof on thier side. The more senior inspector sure saw it & there was plenty of time to say something but he chose to ignore it. If was to say anything to the driver it would be to put some padding between the cylinder I the rack as it was metal to metal, Lets face it, if you put a 4wd on its side with a correctly stored cyl, its not going to be safe anyway.
You can carry 250 litre gross storage on the tray of an open vehicle before dangerous goods laws kick in. This is so a farmer can take 2x45kg's home from town. It used to be 500 litres.
You can also build in a gas compartment to your vehicle, these vent to the outside.
I've been in the LPG industry for 23 years now.

Edit, I just read the Qld rules & it should really say that carraige in an enclosed vehicle can only happen if the vehicle doesn't have a boot. Certainly that is the only state that publicises the regs.

Cheers, David

[bee utey]

In SA my local gas supplier will not let you load more than one filled 9kg bottle in a vehicle. It must be disconnected and preferably plugged as well. And it has to be carried with the valve upwards.

[CraigE]

The rules are pretty much the same Australia wide. You are allowed to carry up to 2 x 9kg cylinders inside a vehicle. It does state for the purpose of filling or exchange so can be a grey area. The even greyer area is, is your 9kg cylinder allowed?? Some come in bang on 9kg, some come in under and some are over. Generally now a so called 9kg cylinder is actually 8.5ks to come in under the designated limit, so you should be ok. You would be pretty hard done buy to get pinged for carrying them. Where possible you should carry them outside or in and adequate ventilated compartment. Go figure we can have a 100litre LPG vehicle fuel cell in a car though.
Anything over 9kg must be carried in a trailer, truck or ute in the upright and secure position. Failure to secure can mean a fine. Commercial quantities as described in the DG act require suitable cradles for transport.
It is a big no no to transport them lying down. The amount of time I still see people doing so is just ridiculous.
Check you DG act for your state, I have just seen one of the guys state in SA his supplier would not let him carry more than 1. Not entirely conversant with SA DG rules but am sure it is the same x 2 in a vehicle.

[CraigE]

There are different "laws" for different states.
AFAIK, across Australia, you can carry 2x 9kg in a seperate vehicle enclosure (ie boot) for the purpose of refilling or exchange. Carraige of cylinders in the passenger compartment is a no no. ( ie Defender wagon)
Laying down of cylinders is also a no no as the relief valve must be able to vent off vapour, & laying it down puts the relief valve under liquid.
Thats not to say these rules aren't regularly broken. I was with 2 energysafe inspectors before Christmas when a Qld plated 4wd parked opposite us with 2 x 4.5 kg bottles strapped to the roof on thier side. The more senior inspector sure saw it & there was plenty of time to say something but he chose to ignore it. If was to say anything to the driver it would be to put some padding between the cylinder I the rack as it was metal to metal, Lets face it, if you put a 4wd on its side with a correctly stored cyl, its not going to be safe anyway.
You can carry 250 litre gross storage on the tray of an open vehicle before dangerous goods laws kick in. This is so a farmer can take 2x45kg's home from town. It used to be 500 litres.
You can also build in a gas compartment to your vehicle, these vent to the outside.
I've been in the LPG industry for 23 years now.

Cheers, David
David,
The bit about not carrying in a wagon is a contentious one and it actually states should be carried in a boot/tray rather than in the passenger compartment and by this I would take it you can but it is not recommended. Slightly open to interpretation I suppose.

[DeeJay]

David,
The bit about not carrying in a wagon is a contentious one and it actually states should be carried in a boot/tray rather than in the passenger compartment and by this I would take it you can but it is not recommended. Slightly open to interpretation I suppose.

Yes, I was modifying that comment when you posted, it's contentious because the Vic authorities (& NSW) wont go on record. I think the 2WE to 3YE change is relevant.

[kenleyfred]

I have seen a gas bottle carrier on the back of a Defender. Looks like it would only take a 4/4.5 kg bottle. I think it is part of the Dolium range from Opposite Lock.
Could be your answer, secure,upright and out the vehicle.

Somebody on forum has one, I saw it at the Defender day out.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

I have seen a gas bottle carrier on the back of a Defender. Looks like it would only take a 4/4.5 kg bottle. I think it is part of the Dolium range from Opposite Lock.
Could be your answer, secure,upright and out the vehicle.

Somebody on forum has one, I saw it at the Defender day out.

Thanks. Ive seen these before, but I cant use them - I have a double cab and two rear ladders to support the full length roof rack.

J

[Yorkshire_Jon]

get a milk crate, a 9kg bottle fits well. the strap it on the roof rack.

personly not a fan of having the bottle inside

Thanks for this.

How do the milk crates stand up to corrugations? Can they handle the constant vibration?

I suspect that so long as the crate is well strapped to the roof rack and the bottle cant rattle around inside the crate, thus minimising any movement, all will be fine?

[weeds]

its a cylinder........................not a bottle:p

BTW a milk create should hold up no worries, pretty tough these creates.

for touring i would only store outside the vehicle and always store it vertically. if you store a cylinder on its side and it needs to vent it will vent liquid LPG which expands at something like 200:1

[weeds]

forgot to mention, gas goes a long way when camping, i carry 2 x 3kg cylinders (i think they are 3kg) that way when one runs runs out you have time to fill it while using the second one

if you only carry one cylinder i reckon it much like all your eggs in one basket.......but than again i carry all my water in one container:o

[jerryd]

A faulty pilot light for the fridge caused this little mishap :eek:

[Yorkshire_Jon]

A faulty pilot light for the fridge caused this little mishap :eek:

Woopsie!!

I only use leccy fridges, just considering gas for the BBQ.

I cant believe people use gas for fridges in 4x4s 9or motor homes come to think of it) - just seems so open to disaster, as the photos demonstrate.

[Redback]

Woopsie!!

I only use leccy fridges, just considering gas for the BBQ.

I cant believe people use gas for fridges in 4x4s 9or motor homes come to think of it) - just seems so open to disaster, as the photos demonstrate.

They are normally 3way fridges gas/240v/12v and set to 12v when travelling, not left on gas, gas is used only when camped, only a fool uses a fridge on gas whilst travelling.

Seeing as you have a dualcab, you can store them in the rear tub, the milk create is a good idea to put them in.

Baz.

[Disco44]

They are normally 3way fridges gas/240v/12v and set to 12v when travelling, not left on gas, gas is used only when camped, only a fool uses a fridge on gas whilst travelling.

Baz.

You are so right Baz.In my professional fighting days gas scared me ****less.With a leak, no matter how small,that Landy shown is a wake up call..when gas goes bang it goes bang with catastrophic results
John.

[Yorkshire_Jon]

its a cylinder........................not a bottle:p

BTW a milk create should hold up no worries, pretty tough these creates.

for touring i would only store outside the vehicle and always store it vertically. if you store a cylinder on its side and it needs to vent it will vent liquid LPG which expands at something like 200:1

Ok, got hold of a milk crate and gas cylinder.
The pictures arent strapped down yet, but I was thinking strapping the crate to the rack and then the cylinder to the rack, through the crate.

Sound OK for long days on badly corrugated roads???

Thx
Jon

[85 county]

Thanks for this.

How do the milk crates stand up to corrugations? Can they handle the constant vibration?

I suspect that so long as the crate is well strapped to the roof rack and the bottle cant rattle around inside the crate, thus minimising any movement, all will be fine?

easy

i run a strap from the Roof rack up though the handle of the bottle, down then under at 45 back up and though the handle again then down and tighten. all 4 sides are covered. But i have noticed chaffing of the strap. Just bin it an use a new one

[weeds]

two straps has got to be better than one.....

[inside]

Get a dual fuel stove and eliminate gas altogether? A few litres of petrol goes a long way in them.

[Bushie]

Get a dual fuel stove and eliminate gas altogether? A few litres of petrol goes a long way in them.

Probably not much safer though


Martyn

[Barra1]

And probably no "unsafer". :eek:

May I add "unsafer' for the want of better word.:cool:

[jerryd]

My Series III Dormobile has a cage under the drivers seat that carries two gas bottles :eek: I can only assume that it is illegal in Australia to drive around with them connected to the cooker and fridge.Obviously different laws in the uk
I have taken them out as they tended to rattle about a bit. Is it a different law for motorhomes ?? Caravans ??

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Get a dual fuel stove and eliminate gas altogether? A few litres of petrol goes a long way in them.

I have an MSR Dual fuel stove - thats great and is pretty much all we use for short trips, but it wont run the BBQ or gas lantern!!

We are going away for 6 weeks and so want maximum flexibility in the cooking department.

[TwoUp]

Jon,
You need one of those plastic bung, screw in jobbies on the bottle when in transit, it's a law thingy here and outlets won't re-fill without it being there.

If the "bottle" is snug, then it should be OK and the crate will hold up fine. You can use rubber like a section of old push bike tube etc to firm up the bottle in the crate.

In use the crate is good for hanging cooking tools off etc.

Cheers,
PeterW

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Jon,
You need one of those plastic bung, screw in jobbies on the bottle when in transit, it's a law thingy here and outlets won't re-fill without it being there.


OK, maybe Im being stupid but what plastic thingy? Do you mean the bit I ripped off and threw away when I got the bottle so that I could screw the regulator in?

Sorry if its a stupid question!

J

[TwoUp]

Yes that's the one. You can purchase them from any outlet. It should be a screw in type. I have a couple with wing nut style and one that is recessed to take a screw driver or coin.

Cheers,
PeterW

[953]

There are different "laws" for different states.
AFAIK, across Australia, you can carry 2x 9kg in a seperate vehicle enclosure (ie boot) for the purpose of refilling or exchange. Carriage of cylinders in the passenger compartment is a no no. ( ie Defender wagon) although there is no longer brochures or available data on this. LPG recently went from 2WE to 3YE, so petrol regulations may apply.
Laying down of cylinders is also a no no as the relief valve must be able to vent off vapour, & laying it down puts the relief valve under liquid.
Thats not to say these rules aren't regularly broken. I was with 2 energysafe inspectors before Christmas when a Qld plated 4wd parked opposite us with 2 x 4.5 kg bottles strapped to the roof on thier side. The more senior inspector sure saw it & there was plenty of time to say something but he chose to ignore it. If was to say anything to the driver it would be to put some padding between the cylinder I the rack as it was metal to metal, Lets face it, if you put a 4wd on its side with a correctly stored cyl, its not going to be safe anyway.
You can carry 250 litre gross storage on the tray of an open vehicle before dangerous goods laws kick in. This is so a farmer can take 2x45kg's home from town. It used to be 500 litres.
You can also build in a gas compartment to your vehicle, these vent to the outside.
I've been in the LPG industry for 23 years now.

Edit, I just read the Qld rules & it should really say that carraige in an enclosed vehicle can only happen if the vehicle doesn't have a boot. Certainly that is the only state that publicises the regs.

Cheers, David

Hi David, a little off topic but r LPG & propane the same?
I bought a webber baby q & would like to run it off those small propane bottles when I take it camping.
Talking to webber, they say I cant but Ive seen a few USA youtubes where they do this.
I thought it would only be a matter of getting some sort of adaptor & reg?
Any thoughts?
Cheers Dean.

[DeeJay]

Hi David, a little off topic but r LPG & propane the same?
I bought a webber baby q & would like to run it off those small propane bottles when I take it camping.
Talking to webber, they say I cant but Ive seen a few USA youtubes where they do this.
I thought it would only be a matter of getting some sort of adaptor & reg?
Any thoughts?
Cheers Dean.

Propane & Butane are both Liquid Petroleum Gases, however you need to have burners that are designed to operate on which one you use.
Butane is much lower pressure & denser gas & will burn like an oxy acetylene torch without the oxy if used in a Propane appliance.
I'm not familiar with the Webber baby Q, but if it is a propane appliance, the cylinder size is only relevant for vaporisation. The bottle may ice up if the draw is too great, more so the emptier it gets.
Hope that helps,
David

[d2dave]

Thanks for this.

How do the milk crates stand up to corrugations? Can they handle the constant vibration?

I suspect that so long as the crate is well strapped to the roof rack and the bottle cant rattle around inside the crate, thus minimising any movement, all will be fine?

Seems a lot of people use milk crates. I was wondering where can you buy them?[wink11]

Dave.

[alittlebitconcerned]

Seems a lot of people use milk crates. I was wondering where can you buy them?[wink11]

Dave.

Furniture stores that cater for 1st year uni students. I have seen beds, tables and lounges made from them. :D

[Yorkshire_Jon]

Seems a lot of people use milk crates. I was wondering where can you buy them?[wink11]

Dave.

have a friendly word with your local milk delivery man. Worked for me:)

[stallie]

What about like this?

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/04/1266.jpg