things you find in the rubbish...!

[discowhite]

a normal day for me..going through some boxes sorting out whats to be recycled..and i come across a box that says Rolls-Royce/merlin:eek:
this could be interesting!
crap thats a heavy box,
inside is a 400mm dia bearing:eek:
from the FAG part number on it all i get is a listing to an aerospace bearing mob..? so i wonder where it comes from in a merlin? if, thats what it for?

BNIB
http://inlinethumb58.webshots.com/20729/2133266520100509853S600x600Q85.jpg
i really should find a home for it, get it to someone who could use it as i reckon its worth a weeks wages or two!
anybody with contacts?

cheers phil

[p38arover]

Try Temora Aviation Museum:

Temora Aviation Museum (http://www.aviationmuseum.com.au/)

[LandyAndy]

Surely the RELMR people would have contacts.
Andrew

[justinc]

What a find Phil!

Give a Spitfire, Lancaster or Mosquito restorers 'club' a call, they may be looking for just this part to get one going again!!:o

JC

[harry]

just you hang ten there phil,
don't chuck anything old aeroplane'ish away.
this might just be a jigger that was scrapped due to an improved bit coming along, or the real mc'koy.
can you send me some better pics, and i can have a look and point you in the direction of some possible recipients.

i should point out that the part no. sticker and the cable ties don't give me much enthusiasm as to it being what it sounds like it should be.

also can't see anything on a merlin that would be 16 inches dia.

what else is called a merlin nowadays?

[85 county]

Easy

Out put bearing, reduction drive, top. Big dia to counter act the gyroscopic effect of the prop. There is nothing else in there that big. Add to that there were so many Mks with so many both major and minor changes. Being in aussie I would suspect its from a 61, but I have never rebuilt a 61

IE just behind the prop, there are 2 of them if I remember correctly.

The reduction drive was always a bit of a week point, well the casting was.

pity all the Australian spits got shot down or wrecked ( mostly) totally useless in the pacific.
And the aussie built Mosquitoes were done so with steel nails, Which rusted.

poms used copper or brass or some thing??

[85 county]

oh and I forgot, basically worthless with out the docs. may be of interest for a static display build up on a failed block but then these bearings don’t fail as a rule, well not unless the pilot tried to use it as a post hole borer

BUT DOINT BIN IT, ITS HISTORY

[aew849]

Don't forget the crabs at RAAF Point Cook for their museum aircraft. Merlins were also in Mustangs (Allison licence built the engine too!).

Otherwise Temora would snap it up!!

aew849

2004 130 DCPU The Truck
2007 Disco3 SE 2.7...

[discowhite]

just you hang ten there phil,
don't chuck anything old aeroplane'ish away. i wasnt i rescued it for the rubbish
this might just be a jigger that was scrapped due to an improved bit coming along, or the real mc'koy.
can you send me some better pics, and i can have a look and point you in the direction of some possible recipients.
will do..soon

i should point out that the part no. sticker and the cable ties don't give me much enthusiasm as to it being what it sounds like it should be.
im dubious too as the sticker has jun 2006 on it, but the pt#'s are etched into all the parts...so who knows..

also can't see anything on a merlin that would be 16 inches dia.

what else is called a merlin nowadays?

cheers phil

[isuzurover]

oh and I forgot, basically worthless with out the docs.

Aren't there plenty of Merlins still in use on race boats???

Without docs the part may still be of interest to boaties using merlins.

[ramblingboy42]

Don't forget the crabs at RAAF Point Cook for their museum aircraft. Merlins were also in Mustangs (Allison licence built the engine too!).

Otherwise Temora would snap it up!!

aew849

2004 130 DCPU The Truck
2007 Disco3 SE 2.7...

hahaha havent heard anyone use the term "crabs" for years, thanks for the laughter.....
Dennis

[harry]

Aren't there plenty of Merlins still in use on race boats???

Without docs the part may still be of interest to boaties using merlins.


at 100grand for a merlin, or allison, and the smart fellas that can get 1200 hp from a chev or other ****,
i doubt it.

[discowhite]

some more pic's

sticker on the main sealed bag
http://inlinethumb23.webshots.com/24662/2494876100100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

the bearing as a whole
http://inlinethumb03.webshots.com/45570/2743837420100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

serial number, same as the sticker
http://inlinethumb41.webshots.com/45608/2453457970100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

part number and ???
http://inlinethumb44.webshots.com/25387/2194063890100509853S600x600Q85.jpg


FAG part number, nothing on google.
http://inlinethumb62.webshots.com/39357/2223088930100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

side on
http://inlinethumb29.webshots.com/44636/2605951830100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

end float spec's
http://inlinethumb13.webshots.com/44812/2992055920100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

http://inlinethumb16.webshots.com/47823/2757298950100509853S600x600Q85.jpg

so looking at the crossed out serial and the finishes on some parts of the bearing ide say (as a machinist) that its been reco'd there are polish marks from a biscut/flap wheel on some surfaces and the machining marks arnt consistant either..so i spose i'll be doing some ringing around.

cheers phil

[isuzurover]

at 100grand for a merlin, or allison, and the smart fellas that can get 1200 hp from a chev or other ****,
i doubt it.

Looks like you are right - seemed they died out by the mid 80's. However someone may have a "historic" race boat that needs parts?


The Rolls Royce Merlin, although designed as an aero engine, was used in other applications both on land and at sea.

Automotive

Michael Wilcock of Sussex, England built the Swandean Spitfire Special[1], using a Merlin XXV engined acquired from a scrap yard for one hundred and forty pounds. The engine was installed in a home-brewed chassis confected from two Daimler Dingo scout car chassis. The car was run in the Brighton Speed Trials[2] in 1953, and was sold to James Duffy of St. Louis, Missouri in 1956. As of 2005, the vehicle is still in St. Louis, where it is undergoing restoration.

In the 1960s, Paul Jameson put a Merlin engine into a chassis he had built himself.[3] He did not get around to building a body, and sold the car to Epsom automatic transmission specialist John Dodd, who fitted a fibreglass body based on the shape of a stylized Ford Capri and named the machine "The Beast".[3][4] The Beast, the engine of which came from a Boulton Paul Balliol training aircraft[citation needed], driving a General Motors TH400 automatic transmission, was once listed in the Guinness Book of Records as the world's most powerful road car.[5] "The Beast" has used two different fibreglass bodies during its life; the first, in the shape of a stylized Ford Capri, was destroyed in a fire although the engine, running gear and chassis survived. Dodd rebuilt the engine and commissioned a new body, this time a tan 2-door "Shooting brake".[6] In both incarnations the car used Rolls-Royce grilles, badges and hood ornaments, none of which were authorised by the company. In 1974 "The Beast" was brought to the attention of Rolls-Royce, who took Dodd to court after he refused to remove their radiator grille, badges and "Spirit of Ecstacy" mascot. After appearing before court nine times, and serving a six month jail sentence for contempt of court, the Rolls-Royce trademarked features were removed and the grille was replaced with one bearing Dodds' "JD" initials.[6][7] Dodd now lives in Spain and still owns the car, occasionally driving it to automotive shows.[6] In the 1970's, Jameson built a second Merlin-engined car, this being a mid-engined six-wheeler. [8] The engine of this vehicle was two-stage supercharged and was in 1988 reportedly in a museum in The Netherlands[9].

Recently in Australia, Rod Hadfield, of the Castlemaine Rod Shop, used the Merlin engine in a 1955 Chevrolet BelAir Sports Coupe, which was named "Final Objective."[10]

Boat Racing

In the mid-forties and early fifties, aviation engines gained in popularity as powerplants of choice for unlimited hydroplane racing, given their relatively high power-to-weight ratio, reliability and availability. Starting with the MISS WINDSOR raceboat at Detroit in 1946, several ever-more-powerful variants of the Merlin were so used, over the next decades, in a heated battle against the equally popular Allison V-1710. In unlimited hydroplane racing, both were eventually supplanted by gas turbine engines, which exhibit even more favourable power-to-size and power-to-weight ratios.[11]

Some of the most significant Merlin-powered hydroplanes include:[citation needed]

* Slo-mo-shun V (from 1954 on, 1954 Gold Cup winner, first for Merlin power)
* Miss Thriftway (converted in 1957, 1957 Gold Cup winner)
* Hawaii Kai III (1958 Gold Cup and National Champion, first Merlin powered National Championship)
* Miss Thriftway/Miss Century 21 (Gold Cup 1961-1962, National Champion 1960-1962)
* Miss Bardahl (Gold Cup and National Champion 1963-1965, 1967-1968)
* Miss Budweiser (Gold Cup 1969-1970 and 1973, National Champion 1969-1972, 1977)
* Atlas Van Lines (Gold Cup 1972, 1977-1979, 1982-1984, National Champion 1972, 1976, 1978- 1979, 1982-1983
* Pay 'n Pak (Gold Cup 1974-1975, National Champion 1973-1975).

[discowhite]

how close are the merlin and the meteor motors??
i know a bloke with a centurian tank:angel: think they have the meteor v12's?

oh and


Recently in Australia, Rod Hadfield, of the Castlemaine Rod Shop, used the Merlin engine in a 1955 Chevrolet BelAir Sports Coupe, which was named "Final Objective.



the engineering that rod did on that was astounding, i have the build up of it here somewhere in an old muscle car mag.

cheers phil

[Bigbjorn]

Australian Mosquitoes used Mk. 20's. Allison never built Merlins. Merlins were built by Rolls Royce, Ford at Manchester, Packard, and Continental.

[UncleHo]

Caboolture Warbirds Museum or their engineering workshop Sandora Aviation may be interested also, as they have a Merlin somewhere as well as a damaged block, they also have an operational Mustang with an Allison in it.

[JDNSW]

Australian Mosquitoes used Mk. 20's. Allison never built Merlins. Merlins were built by Rolls Royce, Ford at Manchester, Packard, and Continental.

And Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation, Lidcombe. (My father was a toolmaker there)

John

[85 county]

Caboolture Warbirds Museum or their engineering workshop Sandora Aviation may be interested also, as they have a Merlin somewhere as well as a damaged block, they also have an operational Mustang with an Allison in it.

if orginal that will be an XP51

[newhue]

My father in-law has a Mrelin 61, and a Griffin something, maybe 58 but not sure. He has a passion for engineering and Rolls Royce things.

Not sure if he would need this bit, but will send him an email.
I think owning a Merlin could be a bit like owning a series, the owners like to collect all sorts of bits and pieces....just in case.

[Bigbjorn]

And Commonwealth Aircraft Corporation, Lidcombe. (My father was a toolmaker there)

John

I forgot about the Oz made ones. Kirby's reckon they made them at Lidcombe. The Australian aircraft industry was almost incestuous in its intertwined companies then.

[Bundalene]

Hey Phil,

If you can't find a home for it, it would make a great base for a lazy Susan on the table in the gazebo, :D:D



Erich

[discowhite]

Hey Phil,

If you can't find a home for it, it would make a great base for a lazy Susan on the table in the gazebo, :D:D



Erich

bloody wife said to turn it into a a coffee table! is that a sign that i can now have ''shed'' parts in the house??

cheers phil

[JDNSW]

I forgot about the Oz made ones. Kirby's reckon they made them at Lidcombe. The Australian aircraft industry was almost incestuous in its intertwined companies then.

Not entirely, but CAC was set up just before the war as a consortium of companies, none of which had previously been involved in aircraft manufacture, including BHP, GMH, Broken Hill Associated Smelters, ICI, Orient Steam Navigation, and Electrolytic Zinc. I presume Kirby joined the consortium later, probably when the factory at Lidcombe was established(1942?), and they may have donated the factory. Lidcombe built engines, and Fisherman's Bend built airframes.

Unrelated aircraft manufacturing companies set up shortly thereafter, but also part of the war effort, were GAF at Fisherman's Bend and De Havilland at Bankstown. But they all talked to each other.

De Havilland actually still hold the record for most aircraft built in Australia (1035) with the DH82A Tiger Moth. Engines for this (over 10,000) were built by GMH (who built the one in the Auster I used to own) and, I understand, Tasmanian Railways. Before this rush into aircraft manufacture in the late thirties, aircraft had previously been series manufactured in Australia by Genairco and Qantas, and Vickers had considered it, as well as a number of one off examples.

John

[Bigbjorn]

Not entirely, but CAC was set up just before the war as a consortium of companies, none of which had previously been involved in aircraft manufacture, including BHP, GMH, Broken Hill Associated Smelters, ICI, Orient Steam Navigation, and Electrolytic Zinc. I presume Kirby joined the consortium later, probably when the factory at Lidcombe was established(1942?), and they may have donated the factory. Lidcombe built engines, and Fisherman's Bend built airframes.

Unrelated aircraft manufacturing companies set up shortly thereafter, but also part of the war effort, were GAF at Fisherman's Bend and De Havilland at Bankstown. But they all talked to each other.

De Havilland actually still hold the record for most aircraft built in Australia (1035) with the DH82A Tiger Moth. Engines for this (over 10,000) were built by GMH (who built the one in the Auster I used to own) and, I understand, Tasmanian Railways. Before this rush into aircraft manufacture in the late thirties, aircraft had previously been series manufactured in Australia by Genairco and Qantas, and Vickers had considered it, as well as a number of one off examples.

John

There were entwined directorships and shareholdings and the govt. had through the course of WW2 the Air Ministry, Government Aircraft Factory, Dept. of Munitions Production, Dept of Aircraft Production, etc. Tooling was made in places as diverse as South Australian Railways, BHP Whyalla and Wollongong, and Sutton Bros. Tool and Gauge, Melbourne.

Peter Pugh, the Rolls Royce historian, does not mention CAC in his work, referring only to the James N. Kirby Company as the Australian maker of Merlins, and mentions that James Kirby himself and Lord Hives, Chairman of Rolls Royce, were close friends.

[JDNSW]

There were entwined directorships and shareholdings and the govt. had through the course of WW2 the Air Ministry, Government Aircraft Factory, Dept. of Munitions Production, Dept of Aircraft Production, etc. Tooling was made in places as diverse as South Australian Railways, BHP Whyalla and Wollongong, and Sutton Bros. Tool and Gauge, Melbourne.

Peter Pugh, the Rolls Royce historian, does not mention CAC in his work, referring only to the James N. Kirby Company as the Australian maker of Merlins, and mentions that James Kirby himself and Lord Hives, Chairman of Rolls Royce, were close friends.

My father was employed in that factory for over fifteen years (1942-1957), and made tooling for merlins and other engines. His payslips (I have one somewhere) were from CAC, and he never mentioned any other company name. He became headmaster of the factory's trade school after the war. One of my prized tools is a large screwdriver he made from a (failed QC) merlin headbolt, with a cast on machined alloy handle. One of the interesting displays they had in the factory (I saw on a visit there as a kid) was a merlin that had uncovered a faulty crankshaft drilling when it seized suddenly during a full power test and came to pieces. The remains were hung on the wall of the shop floor as an object lesson on accurate work.

I would guess that because of the link between Kirby and Hives, that Pugh got his information from Kirby, probably indirectly, through Hives or even more indirectly via staff who got their information from Hives.

John

[Homestar]

Looks like you are right - seemed they died out by the mid 80's. However someone may have a "historic" race boat that needs parts?

Maybe a bit later - I saw a Merlin powered hydroplane in lake King about 11 or 12 years ago during some Easter race meet - sounded awesome, but it wasn't competitive agains the V8's, and it didn't prove very reliable the day we were watching. In the 2 races we saw it in, it conked out both times...

[Bigbjorn]

My father was employed in that factory for over fifteen years (1942-1957), and made tooling for merlins and other engines. His payslips (I have one somewhere) were from CAC, and he never mentioned any other company name. He became headmaster of the factory's trade school after the war. One of my prized tools is a large screwdriver he made from a (failed QC) merlin headbolt, with a cast on machined alloy handle. One of the interesting displays they had in the factory (I saw on a visit there as a kid) was a merlin that had uncovered a faulty crankshaft drilling when it seized suddenly during a full power test and came to pieces. The remains were hung on the wall of the shop floor as an object lesson on accurate work.

I would guess that because of the link between Kirby and Hives, that Pugh got his information from Kirby, probably indirectly, through Hives or even more indirectly via staff who got their information from Hives.

John

Kirby was appointed manager of CAC in 1940 when he was already a successful businessman. No doubt a war appointment. The Powerhouse Museum has a sectioned Merlin 46, sectioned by James N Kirby Ltd. In 1963 I put a couple of Merlins together from an accumulation of complete and incomplete engines & parts for a Sydney boat racer, and I acquired Merlin specific tools from a storeman at James N. Kirby for a few dozen Resch's Pilsener. So obviously Kirby's were up to their necks in the Merlin business. CAC was formed under the auspices of Essington Lewis with BHP, Broken Hill Associated Smelters, GM-H all involved. Kirby, Lewis, Hartnett, Wackett were all directors of wartime companies producing aircraft and munitions. James Kirby's biographer also gives credit for Merlin production to Jame N Kirby Ltd. So who did what and when could take some research.

[The ho har's]

A very interstng read thanks guys;)

Mrs hh:angel:

[andrew e]

what a coincedence. I saw 2 rr merlins today. One as a static display, and the other wrapped in a spit fire, sitting under a B52 wing.

Andy

[Pedro_The_Swift]

when it seized suddenly during a full power test
John

now that would have been exciting:eek:

[3toes]

Seem to remember that the 'Merlins' were also used post war in the Lincolns. There was a hold up in the manufacture of the newer engines for these aircraft resulting in the initial installation being two of the newer engines and two engines recycled from Spitfires. When production of the engines caught up with production of the aircraft the Spitfire 'Merlins' were replaced.

[p38arover]

what a coincedence. I saw 2 rr merlins today. One as a static display, and the other wrapped in a spit fire, sitting under a B52 wing.

Andy

Are you in Darwin?

[Tote]

Are you in Darwin?

Beat me to it :D

Regards,
Tote