disco 2 bullbar

[brian jack]

hi all so whats the go with the disco 2 .s and bullbars, if i was to make a bar up to siut my requirements, the air bag sensorswill they require some sort of set up cheers
thanks for the help, it may be a dumb question to you all but i dont have the bucks to pay the killer price for a bit of channel

[It'sNotWorthComplaining!]

question is do you have the bucks to get it crash tested to comply with ADR rules re airbags and bullbars?

[Hendrik]

If only it was just a piece of channel...the development work that goes into a bar is substantial that is essentially what you are paying for. I make gear for D2's but will never do a D2 front bar without the right equipment so it complies with the SRS, it's just not worth the risk with the air bags.

[nealo]

If only it was just a piece of channel...the development work that goes into a bar is substantial that is essentially what you are paying for. I make gear for D2's but will never do a D2 front bar without the right equipment so it complies with the SRS, it's just not worth the risk with the air bags.

Ditto

As a boilermaker and fabricator, when you have a look at how the bars are made you appreciate the work that goes into them.

Its waaay more than just a piece of channel

The go is....buy one from TJM or ARB

[nealo]

Oh yeah ...and welcome to the forum Brian....just spotted that it was your first post.

[Hastykiwi]

Understand the need to operate with SRS. DOes this mean they simply have to operate with SRS, or is there something more to the ADR rules? Reason I ask is there are several front bumper replacements available in the UK which, I believe has reasonable strict bumper regs. Are these compliant, or are they just hoping for the best? Or , I guess , does the compliance vary in the two countries?

eg
http://www.mm-4x4.com/discovery-2---tubular-winch-bumper-3177-p.asp

or
Extreme 4x4 Ltd DISCOVERY 2 WINCH BUMPER WITH LIGHTS (http://www.extreme4x4.co.uk/acatalog/copy_of_DISCOVERY_2_WINCH_BUMPER_WITH_LIGHTS.html)

cheers
NIck

[tailslide]

or is there something more to the ADR rules?

Hi Nick,

This is what I found when looking at a bar for my D2: http://www.transport.wa.gov.au/LBU_VS_CI_112.pdf

The ARB bar is designed to meet all of the criteria as are all contemporary bars with ADR compliance markings.

Cheers
Ron

[Hastykiwi]

Appreciate it Ron. However while ARB may well be 'compatable' the issue is wether these are. All the regs say is that it cannot compromise the safety of the vehicle with regards to crumplezone or the workings of the SRS. Or, Landrover endorse it from the go. I guess I'm asking why these would not be compliant, or is it simply that nobody knows the answer one way or the other.

I have emailed the respective vendors.

cheers
Nick

[tailslide]

Yep, it is a hard call. These bars are really bumper replacements not full bull bars.

If they bolt on to the crush cans then there shouldn't be any issues with the SRS system. If not, then there should be some design feature that allows the bar to deform on impact, sufficent to transmit the crash impulse to the chasis before the crash destroys the detectors...

[takdturk]

well the topic is out so i might as well say it...
I took an airbag compatible tjm winch bullbar from a 120 series prado, modified the mounting and wacked it on my D2.
As for the the airbags umm... thing....er..... hmmmm..
:twisted:

[Urban Panzer]

This topic is interesting to me and a topic which crops up all the time.

Just read that PDF posted and to me it seems the Aussie authorities have used a sensible approach, however in the UK and Europe (who seem to call the shots.........which suxxxxx) the fitment of a bullbar to ANY vehicle manufactured after 2005 is illegal unless it meets the new requirements which basically means the soft type bars which A, are usless to protect the vehicle and B useless for mounting stuf like winches etc.

This is why I had to buy my ARB and import it myself from California as the type with the bullbar is no longer available, only the Sahara bar is available but without the chrome tube coz that makes all the difference :angel:

the bumpers linked from the UK dont have to meet any testing tbh, and it is concerning "imo" as you dont know "if" they have an effect on the vehicle and occupants in a crash. Again one of the reasons I chose an ARB as the testing has been done on its design an construction, a shame the Euro idiots dont adopt the same approach.

Also you can make pretty much anything you like in the UK as long as there is no bullbar part to it which is why there is LOADS to choose from.
Im sure "one" day Europe will get hold of it and make some more regs that will pretty much make it impossible to fit any sort of decent protection to the front of your vehicle.

[John W]

If I was lucky enough to have the time and a full workshop to make my own bull bar, I would probably start with getting a couple of ARB bull bar mounts to attach my bull bar to the chassis rails. That way you have some engineered crumple mounts so the air bag thing would be sorted. Next you would need to keep your home made bar weight no more than the ARB one and with about the same rigidity.

Seems easier to get the ARB one but then again you may have a lot of spare time.

[Hastykiwi]

This topic is interesting to me and a topic which crops up all the time.

Just read that PDF posted and to me it seems the Aussie authorities have used a sensible approach, however in the UK and Europe (who seem to call the shots.........which suxxxxx) the fitment of a bullbar to ANY vehicle manufactured after 2005 is illegal unless it meets the new requirements which basically means the soft type bars which A, are usless to protect the vehicle and B useless for mounting stuf like winches etc.

This is why I had to buy my ARB and import it myself from California as the type with the bullbar is no longer available, only the Sahara bar is available but without the chrome tube coz that makes all the difference :angel:

the bumpers linked from the UK dont have to meet any testing tbh, and it is concerning "imo" as you dont know "if" they have an effect on the vehicle and occupants in a crash. Again one of the reasons I chose an ARB as the testing has been done on its design an construction, a shame the Euro idiots dont adopt the same approach.

Also you can make pretty much anything you like in the UK as long as there is no bullbar part to it which is why there is LOADS to choose from.
Im sure "one" day Europe will get hold of it and make some more regs that will pretty much make it impossible to fit any sort of decent protection to the front of your vehicle.


Ok, now we're getting to the nitty gritty of it.
There's a couple of different issues here.
1) a Bullbar, and its associated issues. The extent it protrudes, the angle of the bar protection, etc.

2) replacement bumpers, (and bullbars) insofar as they effect the safety aspects of the vehicle, ie crumplezone and SRS.

I'm not so worried about the bullbar aspects as the straight safety bits.

From what your saying UP, they can make pretty much what ever they like in the UK, as long as it fits?

cheers
Nick

[Tombie]

And we can too as long as it complies :)

Which involves specifications, modeling and crash testing to prove compliance. :D

[Hastykiwi]

And we can too as long as it complies :)

Which involves specifications, modeling and crash testing to prove compliance. :D

Correct. So I was asking if these bumpers do not comply.

cheers
Nick

PS no reply from respective vendors yet.

[greg smith]

Check around my bullbar was manufactured just nth of brisbane looks just the same as the ARB fitted at the factory and saved a few hundred $----all legal:)

[v8dunekiller]

hi guys hay just a question i've got a xrox bullbar on my d1 and im getting a d2 on the weekend would it fit or are the d2 different?

Gray

[Tombie]

hi guys hay just a question i've got a xrox bullbar on my d1 and im getting a d2 on the weekend would it fit or are the d2 different?

Gray

Got a pic?

Xrox don't even list a Discovery bar...

[Urban Panzer]

Ok, now we're getting to the nitty gritty of it.
There's a couple of different issues here.
1) a Bullbar, and its associated issues. The extent it protrudes, the angle of the bar protection, etc.

2) replacement bumpers, (and bullbars) insofar as they effect the safety aspects of the vehicle, ie crumplezone and SRS.

I'm not so worried about the bullbar aspects as the straight safety bits.

From what your saying UP, they can make pretty much what ever they like in the UK, as long as it fits?

cheers
Nick

Pretty much yes, although some companies sell / produce stuff that "probably" should not be sold "officially".

As far as the D2 goes, there is LOTS of choice out there.

[Hastykiwi]

Ok,

got replies from one company. They said the bar has not been tested in any way so cannot be said to meet the ADR regs, and landrover does not endorse it. They said it is just a replacement part.

When I clarified this with regard to the SRS system, they replied that I would have to move the crash sensors so they are not affected by the winch bumper, otherwise they could not garauntee that they would work.

I haven't pointed out to him that there are no sensors to move.

So that is cleared up, however I'm then asking given the way the D2 system works, how could the different bumper really effect it. Surely the car is going to stop in just the same hurry hitting tree with either bumper so DCU will deploy the bags regardless. Any engineers out there?

cheers
Nick

[bluelightdisco]

Ok,

got replies from one company. They said the bar has not been tested in any way so cannot be said to meet the ADR regs, and landrover does not endorse it. They said it is just a replacement part.

When I clarified this with regard to the SRS system, they replied that I would have to move the crash sensors so they are not affected by the winch bumper, otherwise they could not garauntee that they would work.

I haven't pointed out to him that there are no sensors to move.

So that is cleared up, however I'm then asking given the way the D2 system works, how could the different bumper really effect it. Surely the car is going to stop in just the same hurry hitting tree with either bumper so DCU will deploy the bags regardless. Any engineers out there?

cheers
Nick
I had this little rant a little while back when discussing how the system works and from all the litrature i could find on the matter it said to me that no external sensors are used and a decelerometer is used which compares g force to stored values in the computer to access whether to set the srs system off, and all of that in a fraction of a second not bad hey, but the part that makes sense is that if you put a bumper on the car that is stiffer than the factory one then you are changing the readings which are compared to the factory ones stored in the computer, could mean the difference of a few seconds but in a crash a few seconds is all you have!