Difficult Gear Changes in Defender 130

[wouldbeowner]

I have had a 130 for a few weeks now and have done about 3000km. The first 2,800 were on bitumen. The last 200 have been predominantly on dirt.
Very recently (last 100km) I noticed that it is now almost impossible to change from 5th gear to 3rd gear directly. If I just slot it into 4th on the way it then goes into 3rd without any difficulty - dont even need to take foot off clutch. It's almost as if something gets out of position and by putting it into 4th it forces whatever it is back into position and allows entry to third gear slot again. There is no grating.
One thing and it might be just coincidence, but during the 200km dirt we used low ratio a bit. Some stage after that I noticed this symptom - as I said however it may not be connected at all.
Has anyone bumped into this symptom or have any ideas please?
Thanks

[Freestyler]

hi, I would start by draining the oil into a clean container, let it settle the tip most of it out and check for metal in the oil, small flakes or sluge is usual. Make sure you refill with the correct oil. 80w90 and similar gearbox oils are too thick and will cause this symptom. I use to run Castrol VMX 80 but have changed to Penrite Transaxle 75 in my '85 5 speed county. It is strongly advisable to use the clutch while changing gears with a syncro box unless you wish to be changing the synco's often.
Tim

[wouldbeowner]

Thanks for that Freestyler. Well drained the oil and although I am letting it settle overnight. the magnetic lug on the drain plug had a very nice collection of metal filings :(. Not 100% sure what the implications of this are. Obviously any wear is less than perfect but clearly there is a scale that goes from minor wear to major wear and failure. What I dont know is where on that scale this wear is.

[aew849]

Wouldbeowner,

I wouldn't have though it too unusual for a 'new' gearbox to make metal, as the components bed in. In the helicopter world we even use a running in oil to ensure this happens pronto, before flushing and refilling with normal fluids.

I would keep the debris from the plug and take it into 1) local dealer and 2) local transmission specialist for independant advice. My experience with LR dealers and new vehicles with issues, has been to show them what you have done to get the vehicle to them to fix it. You need the evidence of the fault and also need to ensure they don't see you as fiddling with it....as it will give them cause to dodge warranty repair costs.

I had an intermittant fault with a new clutch master cylinder, where you would loose pressure. By the time I had nursed the bugger to LR shop, the fault had gone.....sorry sir, it appears to be working normally....well, then sunshine, explain the puddle of bydraulic fluid dribbling down the bulkhead!!! Same thing for the 98 Tdi and 02 Td5 110's I had where the rear brake pads ground out after 7000 kms....sorry sir, you seem to be doing too much driving on dirt roads........sunshine, it's only done 7000kms, and probably just 700 on dirt. It's a Land Rover f.f. sake!!

Finger crossed your issue isn't a major problem, but if it is, that LR sort it professionally.


aew 849

[abaddonxi]

1995 300tdi R380 gearbox?

Forum wisdom says change the gearbox oil over to Castrol Syntrans. It might take 500Km+ for the Syntrans to settle in, but expect significantly better gear changes after that.

They're pretty agricultural gearboxes and like to take a long rest in neutral between changes, or double-clutch.

Check out The Good Oil for lots of threads on gearbox oil.

[one_iota]

I can certainly vouch for the improvement in gear changes with a Syntrans rather than the originally specified ATF fluid. It eliminated the grind between 1st and 2nd in my ex Disco.

However I'm a little puzzled by your difficulties in directly selecting the gear.

I had this problem with Disco when the tab (see diagram) between the gearstick bias springs snapped off and wedged itself inconveniently in the gubbins causing similar selection problems. The tab was welded back into place...an easy fix.

https://www.aulro.com/afvb/images/imported/2011/02/811.jpg (http://www.aulro.com/app/showphoto.php/photo/2410/title/gear-change/cat/533)

Now I no longer have the RAVE manual to check the differences between the Disco and the Defender (and there are some) so I can't swear for certain that this might be the problem.

Maybe some one else can shed some light on this?

[wouldbeowner]

Thanks one_iota. I assume there is a panel you can remove on the floor and u would get at that particular mecahnism through the hole in the floor.
Nothing wrong with the inner west - just moved from Stanmore - loved it there.
Cheers

[rick130]

From Ashcrofts website.

My R380 will not cleanly select 3rd or 4th gear, I have to move the stick to the side to get it in gear. Why?Defender
at the bottom of the gearstick is a cone shaped 'turret', if you lift the rubber boot covering it you will see 2 springs which rest on 2 bolts, when you let go of the gearstick these springs return the stick to the 3/4 plane, sometimes the rest position of the stick needs adjusting to agree with the gearbox selectors.
To work out which way to adjust it you will have to drive the vehicle but instead of letting the stick go where it wants to go try holding it a little to the left and then a little to the right, one way or the other it will drop in cleaner, adjust the bolts to lean the stick over accordingly and remove any play in the stick.


Hopefully it isn't this.


The R380 gearbox in my 300 tdi DefenderDiscovery has recently started 'blocking' when I shift from 5th to 4th, to get 4th gear I have to nudge 3rd then it will drop into 4th no problem. Why?A common fault on the early R380 gearboxes was the 4th gear baulk ring. The slot locating the synchro slipper wears and allows the baulk ring to rotate too far. This blocks the synchro assembly. It will be necessary to rebuild the gearbox, and replacing the baulk ring with a later type will eliminate this fault.

[one_iota]

Well my partner is Armidale born and bred...so there must be an exchange program going on. :)

I don't now how you get to that bit of the Defender.

If you don't have one already I can recommend getting the RAVE manual available from this place:

Dave's Interesting Things - LANDYCD (http://www.davesitshop.com/davesitshop/index.php?_a=viewProd&productId=3)

Dave runs the show here and profits from this product help to maintain the AULRO site.

[wouldbeowner]

From Ashcrofts website.

My R380 will not cleanly select 3rd or 4th gear, I have to move the stick to the side to get it in gear. Why?Defender
at the bottom of the gearstick is a cone shaped 'turret', if you lift the rubber boot covering it you will see 2 springs which rest on 2 bolts, when you let go of the gearstick these springs return the stick to the 3/4 plane, sometimes the rest position of the stick needs adjusting to agree with the gearbox selectors.
To work out which way to adjust it you will have to drive the vehicle but instead of letting the stick go where it wants to go try holding it a little to the left and then a little to the right, one way or the other it will drop in cleaner, adjust the bolts to lean the stick over accordingly and remove any play in the stick.


Hopefully it isn't this. me too


The R380 gearbox in my 300 tdi DefenderDiscovery has recently started 'blocking' when I shift from 5th to 4th, to get 4th gear I have to nudge 3rd then it will drop into 4th no problem. Why?A common fault on the early R380 gearboxes was the 4th gear baulk ring. The slot locating the synchro slipper wears and allows the baulk ring to rotate too far. This blocks the synchro assembly. It will be necessary to rebuild the gearbox, and replacing the baulk ring with a later type will eliminate this fault.

I can move up very cleanly through all gears and down through all the gears as well with no crunching or grating. The only issue was going 5th to 3rd - and this doesnt happen all the time.
So I reckon I'll start with those positioning springs.

HOT DOG - thought my mechanicing days (dirty fingernails, grease and oil in the creases of your fingers) were behind me. I must admit I really dont mind it BUT I sure hope I dont have to get under the old girl when wearing collar and tie and on way to tell some CFO how to computerise his distribution network - he'll probably think I've come to service the fork lift!!!!!

[Freestyler]

Thanks for that Freestyler. Well drained the oil and although I am letting it settle overnight. the magnetic lug on the drain plug had a very nice collection of metal filings :(. Not 100% sure what the implications of this are. Obviously any wear is less than perfect but clearly there is a scale that goes from minor wear to major wear and failure. What I dont know is where on that scale this wear is.

Gearbox's will always make metal (more so when new) hence the reason for regularly changing it. Should only be little bits (filings) and less than 1/2 a teaspoon would be ok for aprox 50000ks. Bigger bits or excessive filing would suggest of a failure of a component in the near future. Another check is to smell the oils. Hopfully it dosen't smell "burnt"
Tim