Ambulances and red lights.

[pfillery]

Saw something disturbing yesterday at an intersection that got me thinking.

An ambulance was sitting in traffic at an intersection, lights and sirens on, about 4 or 5 cars back from the line. Red light so nobody's moving. also a red light camera. So I know "technically" ambulances etc are not supposed to run red lights, but they often do. Also technically you are supposed to give way to an ambulance with sirens and lights on. All the traffic in front of the ambulance refused to move, nobody willing to run the lights for fear of getting a fine. Sat there for a full minute and a half until the turn lanes got to move, the ambulance drove into the turn lane and went straight through the intersection and continued on its way.

Something about this on all levels stinks. Nobody should run a red light but if it was you, your spouse, your mother etc having a heart attack, one minute is the difference between life and death, so you would want people to move. But if you run the light, get a fine, is it going to be reversed when you say you ran it to allow an ambulance to go through?

[Pedro_The_Swift]

unless the lanes were barricaded the ambo's in a hurry usually use the other lane to get through the intersection.

and yes the fine would be reversed, plenty of witnesses,

[bee utey]

Had a case like that hit the media in SA a few years ago, bloke was fined for running a red light because he moved out of the way. There was a huge stink in the media before the govt backed down, but basically you don't break the law unless you are authorised to do so. :mad:

[THE BOOGER]

I have moved forward through a red light to let fire truck pass have never been booked the camera that gets me also gets the fire truck or ambo/cops car so someone must use common sense when looking at the photos.:D In nsw all emergency services under reds and blues are supposed to stop at red lights then procced if safe if its a real emergency i have seen them drive up the wrong side of the road and I know RFS drivers can report people for failing to give way:mad:

[zulu Delta 534]

A simple solution is for all emergency vehicles to be fitted with a sensor that overrides the lights. Could still be awkward though if two emergency vehicles approach the same lights from different angles.
Many moons ago when I used to drive Greyhound out of Brisbane and we had coppers on point duty, we (buses of any description) never got held up at red lights. Unfortunately now that we, as a people in general, are handled by automated devices, all theses little decencies are long forgotten.
Regards
Glen

[digger]

The red and blue lights and sirens are considered paramount,
if you enter an intersection, make sure that first you have checked it is clear or safe to do so, if no othr choice but to pass across then do so, but the ambos/firies or police passing thru will also activate the camera, that will then negate all those considered as reasonably moving out of the way.

The one Beeutey is reffering to (if I recall correctly) moved thru to allow an approaching ambo thru, he was basicly preempting what was going to happen anyway and as said the matter was dropped when finally the press really jumped on it ...sadly what this did achieve was to make more and more people think twice before moving out of the way.

*it is an offence to fail to move out of the way or to fail to give way to an emergency vehicle -(emergency vehicle= any vehicle used by emergency services displaying activated red/blue /emergency lights and or sirens) but nothing will exempt a driver (emergency services or general driver) from exercising due care and attention.

The old "rule" (general behaviour) of pulling over to let the emerg serv pass still stands as a good one, make sure you indicate clearly you are pulling to left and DONT slam on brakes etc in front of the vehicle (a lot do!-they look in mirror see emerg veh all lit up right behind them and slam on brakes, this increases greatly the chance of accidents and creates skids on roads (and in pants of emerg serv staff!!)

If nowhere to stop-maintain speed with indicator on to show your intention and get out of way asap (keep right over to left so emerg serv vehicle can assess and pass if they decide its safe to do so)

I have been a volly in ambos and still am in CFS and SES, so I have gotten a good look at how it all goes.

under lights and sirens when travelling:
*- in CFS vehicle ,I find most people are pretty good.:D
*-When I was with ambos and driving ambo ,I find most people were really good.:)
*-in SES vehicle ,I find less people are complying.:mad:
*-in my 'work' vehicle ,I find most people are pretty dangerously good!! (or get a visit and a "stinger" later on!):twisted:

cheers
Digger

[numpty]

I concur with what others have said, especially Digger. In my job too, I have had the need to run red lights and stop signs, but driving the largest Fire Vehicles in existence (overwidth and height) prompts people to move regardless.;)

[3toes]

If you are over here in the UK do not move forward to let an emergency vehicle through as this is not considered an excuse. They have fined people for this media outcry or not.

While no points if not on a UK license they will chase you for the fine. The last government outsourced the chasing of traffic fines for foreign drivers. This has changed the attitude to collecting them from the previous too hard basket.

Do not know the outcome but here they were attempting to enforce a speeding camera fine on an ambulance driver who was taking a transplant organ from donor to donee. Was on the basis they were not carrying a person so did not have right to use lights and break speed limit. Ambo would have lost job as the speed was a manditory disqualification.

[101RRS]

This is the government's fault - it is an offence not to give way to emergency vehicles but is also an offence to go through a red light - moving out of the way of an emergency vehicle is no excuse (according to NSW law).

This very thing happened in NSW about 2 years ago - a guy moved out of the way of an emergency vehicle and was pinged by the red light camera - was fined and went to court - the magistrate applied common sense but could not find him not guilty (because he was) but did not apply a penalty or have the conviction recorded. However under a quirk of NSW law demerit points are still lost - in NSW if you plead guilty as this guy did - irrespective of the decision of the magistrate - ie Not Guilty or no conviction recorded etc the law says the de merit points must still be deducted - so in NSW if you plead guilty but are subsequently found not guilty you still loose your points.

Garry

[weeds]

keep in mind that there would be a % of drivers out there that would panic/freeze or just not know what to do or make the right decision when an emergency vehicle approaches........

i have witnessed a couple of times where drivers have paniced

[Basil135]

The red and blue lights and sirens are considered paramount,


under lights and sirens when travelling:
*- in CFS vehicle ,I find most people are pretty good.:D
*-When I was with ambos and driving ambo ,I find most people were really good.:)
*-in SES vehicle ,I find less people are complying.:mad:
*-in my 'work' vehicle ,I find most people are pretty dangerously good!! (or get a visit and a "stinger" later on!):twisted:

cheers
Digger

Except if it is let out time at school...

I have been blocked (on more than 1 occasion) by parents that just stopped because their little one was waiting by the kerb. Air horns and siren did little to convince them to move.

Mind you, I think the visit from the local Sargent with a fine in his hand for them has made them think twice about doing it again.

And if we had a job on a Saturday morning, we took the long way round, cause it was quicker than trying to get up the main street. Sea Changers just didn't get it, and caused us more problems than the delay was worth.


The exception to this, are the real country towns. The locals know what a siren means, and you can run the entire main street without being hindered.

[Michael2]

In Vic we (ambulance) go through red lights when driving with lights or sirens. The advice here is to slow down and proceed through. Compulsorly stopping on approaching the intersection actually increases danger, as cars that have right of way and are about to stop and give way, think you're letting them through. It's best to enter the intersection (if safe) at a low speed.

We don't force drivers into intersections (sometimes just turning the sirens off till the lights change) because they are liable for breaking the law.

In Vic, if you did break the road rules, but did something that was safe, you could argue that you abided by the Road Safety Act, but contravened Road Rules Vic - good luck with that.

[Drover]

In nsw all emergency services under reds and blues are supposed to stop at red lights then procced if safe if its a real emergency i have seen them drive up the wrong side of the road and I know RFS drivers can report people for failing to give way:mad:


Fire & Rescue NSW ( NSW Fire Brigade) appliances are only required to slow to 8kmp/h to proceed through a red light or stop sign.

Cheers

[MickS]

The various emergency services Australia wide would have similar forms of a "safe driver policy". If anything goes pear shaped, say at an intersection, that's one of the first things they will look at, among others.

The problem these days with cars failing to yield to an emergency vehicle is two-fold. Late model cars are so well sealed these days; and combined with 8 speaker surround sound stereo systems, or the driver listening via ear plugs to his/her ipod; along with the air conditioning running - the sirens are barely audible. This, coupled with the low decible sirens used on Police cars - in NSW at least - creates serious problems.

Not sure about the ambos or firies, but when a police vehicle goes through an intersection on urgent duty and activates the camera, the radio operator is informed and it is then logged. That way, if and when the fine goes through, it gets pulled.

And it is correct when it comes to demerit points...the beak cannot pull them..it's an RTA thing regardless of the court's decision. So knowing that, and if you are a bit skinny on points - would you proceed through a red light camera controlled intersection, to yield to an emergency vehicle?

[pfillery]

The problem these days with cars failing to yield to an emergency vehicle is two-fold. Late model cars are so well sealed these days; and combined with 8 speaker surround sound stereo systems, or the driver listening via ear plugs to his/her ipod; along with the air conditioning running - the sirens are barely audible. This, coupled with the low decible sirens used on Police cars - in NSW at least - creates serious problems.


Or those of us who drive series landrovers - can't hear a bloody thing even with the windows open!

[MickS]

Or those of us who drive series landrovers - can't hear a bloody thing even with the windows open!

You know I thought that exact same thing when I typed that :lol2:

[CraigE]

We are allowed to go through red lights provided it is safe. It can be a bit of a catch 22 because if you are involved in an accident it will then be deemed that it was in fact unsafe.:mad:
Same thing applies if you are driving on the wrong side of the road.
Yes cars should move, but traffic is a fact of life and we know we may get caught in it.
Vehicles should move, but are only expected to do so if safe and not likely to cause damage.
Our roads are designed all wrong. There should be a centre lane for emergency vehicles.

[101RRS]

We are allowed to go through red lights provided it is safe. It can be a bit of a catch 22 because if you are involved in an accident it will then be deemed that it was in fact unsafe.:mad:
Same thing applies if you are driving on the wrong side of the road.
Yes cars should move, but traffic is a fact of life and we know we may get caught in it.
Vehicles should move, but are only expected to do so if safe and not likely to cause damage.
Our roads are designed all wrong. There should be a centre lane for emergency vehicles.

Of course cars are required to move over only if it is safe to do so. At a major intersection a fire engine was held up by a car stopped at a red light and the truck had vehicles on either side. The fire engine driver thought the car could have moved out of the way and got a bit close and gave the car a bit of nudge - needless to say the fire engine did not get to the fire and spent about 30min with the car driver and the boys in blue explaining why he tried to push the car out of the way - I did see the cop with the infringement pad in his hand doing most of the talking to the engine driver - I assume that the car driver was able to convince the cop that it was not safe to get out of the way of the fire engine.

I do not know if an infringement was given out.

[ant_schomacker]

Here in QLd, our driving code of conduct has just recently been changed to force us to stop before proceding through a red light / stop sign. Also whether we like it or not, we can not force anyone through a red light... the infringement will not get waived just because you had us sitting behind you with lights and sirens.

I agree with the comment about people not hearing us coming... particularly on the highways, but the biggest issue in my opinion is that people are not taught what to do when they have a emergency vehicle coming up behind them... I've had many near misses on the roads because at least half the time the driver's first reaction is to brake (hard) or swerve sideways without looking :eek:

I'm not a crazy or reckless driver, but I regularly see things through work that scare me and make me ask WTF?

It's really simple... Lights and sirens means move over if possible, if not we'll try to come around you!

[j_nake]

The trouble with common sense is that it aint that common! but many of these issues could be avoided with just a little awarness of what is going on around them. Drivers these days with their cruise control and proximity detectors seem to be getting less aware of their surroundings. the odd mirror check and scan of the road ahead might just inform some drivers of the emergency vehicle coming their way.

[mike 90 RR]

I agree with the comment about people not hearing us coming... particularly on the highways .... at least half the time the driver's first reaction is to brake (hard) or swerve sideways without looking :eek:

That's because half the time, you've scared the **** out of us ..... :twisted:

[UncleHo]

G'day Folks :)

Many years ago in Brisbane the Metropolitan Fire Brigade (MFB) used to drive LHD Macks,all equipt with a large brass bell,this even if one was driving the noiseiest of trucks would be clearly audiable, maybe it was the frequency of it, but it was much clearer than the sirens used on the Ambulances and Police cars,coupled with the fact that if you didn't get out of the way one would get a slight shove, I have seen (and followed) a Mack going to a fire at Mt.Gravatt along Logan Rd round up a tram on the wrong side, with us following in an FJ :eek:

There are people on this site that can well remember "Healey's Red Devils" ;)

All this was in an era before flashing lights and strobes, the ambulances just had one steady red/white maltese cross light above the windscreen.
cheers

[Homestar]

This has already been tested in the courts. 2 motorists moved into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get through. They were both booked by a red light camera, and appealed to the courts, and lost....:(

So as sad as it is, the only ones to blame if someone dies due to a delay like this, is the government for putting the cameras in, and not allowing any tolerence on them. I feel sorry for the person or people waiting for the ambulance, but I understand why the motorists did what they did.

[MickS]

This has already been tested in the courts. 2 motorists moved into an intersection to allow an ambulance to get through. They were both booked by a red light camera, and appealed to the courts, and lost....:(

So as sad as it is, the only ones to blame if someone dies due to a delay like this, is the government for putting the cameras in, and not allowing any tolerence on them. I feel sorry for the person or people waiting for the ambulance, but I understand why the motorists did what they did.

I'd make sure I was on the front step at the autopsy with my ticket in hand :mad: Better still, at the coronial.

[Homestar]

I'd make sure I was on the front step at the autopsy with my ticket in hand :mad: Better still, at the coronial.

Unfortunatly, It's probably the only way that you would get them to listen...

[Treads]

The advice here is to slow down and proceed through. Compulsorly stopping on approaching the intersection actually increases danger, as cars that have right of way and are about to stop and give way, think you're letting them through. It's best to enter the intersection (if safe) at a low speed.


Fire & Rescue NSW ( NSW Fire Brigade) appliances are only required to slow to 8kmp/h to proceed through a red light or stop sign.


I've been arguing this point with the powers that be in the RFS for years :mad: Our driving SOP's say we must slow to a safe speed at a give way sign; but must stop at a red light or stop sign. There's not too many experienced response drivers that actually come to a halt for exactly the same reason as Michael2 has stated.

That said, we had a pretty big wake up call here late yesterday:


<http://www.news.com.au/national/woman-dies-after-crash-with-police-van/story-e6frfkwi-1226003653393>

A SELFLESS woman who spent a month helping Queensland flood victims has been killed in a car accident with a police vehicle.
Gillian Harman, 48, was driving towards her home in Guyra, near Armidale, NSW, when a police vehicle responding to a Triple-0 call collided with her car.

The impact of the collision flipped Ms Harman’s Toyota sedan onto it’s side, and she died at the scene from horrific injuries.

Her mother Jan Harman told The Daily Telegraph Ms Harman was a hard-working and adored woman, who had just returned from a month of volunteering in QLD.

"She works for Centrelink ... they asked for volunteers to go up to QLD, and she said yes straight away," Mrs Harman said.

For four weeks, Ms Harman worked long days helping the thousands of people in the Chincilla region to restore their lives after the devastating floods.

"That’s the sort of person she was," Mrs Harman said.

Ms Harman was driving home from work in Armidale on Wednesday night, when the accident happened at the intersection of Faulkner and Newton Sts in Armidale.

Police said two officers were on their way to an "urgent domestic dispute".

"The two male officers in the police van were able to get out. They tried to help the 48-year-old woman from Guyra who was the sole occupant of the sedan. She sustained fatal injuries and died at the scene," police said in a statement.

A critical incident team is investigating the circumstances surrounding the accident.
Sources told The Daily Telegraph they believe police were travelling at high speed and there was a question of whether police were using their lights and sirens.



:(

[Basil135]

I saw this on News.com.au

What really got my goat going, was all the idiots having a shot at the coppers saying they shouldn't be driving fast without lights & sirens.

They were responding to a 000 call for a domestic, and it is well known that the sound of a siren approaching can have the effect of inflaming an already volitile situation.

It is extremely sad that this woman lost her life. But, until the full investigation is done, no-one will know for certain what happened.

[jake]

Something to think about, If we get caught in this situation in our trucks, we turn sirens off and wait if there is no way around. It is dangerous to push a vehicle through a red light so to speak. It would be an offence for a normal vehicle to run a red light. Also dangerous, as other road users from another direction would or may not be aware. Simple - don't run the red light. Emergency appliances have rules on this and will only go through a red light under lights and siren if safe to do so. If traffic has totally blocked the intersection, they should keep their lights on but turn the siren off. We get this quite often, on some occasions we may mount the medium strip and go around, again only if safe to do so. Our biggest problem is flowing traffic where people fail to pull over. The other main problem we face is coming into an accident scene where people decide to U- turn as we are coming up.
Afraid it's not the perfect world. on another note in rescue we often find people trying to get patient out of the car. Leave them where they are to prevent further injury, unless they are in a life threatening position, ie car is on fire, this is fairly rare.

Just a note for those in the Melbourne area, We will be conducting a Scene Awareness for 4WD groups later in the year, possibly Mid August to give people a view on accident scenes and what process is involved in vehicle rescue. What not to do etc. This will cover not just general accidentss but also how to make things safe if this occurs in remote areas such as the outback or the high country.

Jake

[Disco44]

I concur with what others have said, especially Digger. In my job too, I have had the need to run red lights and stop signs, but driving the largest Fire Vehicles in existence (overwidth and height) prompts people to move regardless.;)

When I had to use the RAAF firies,it was betoken on me to arrange an escort for their Oskoshs (sic I think),which they had at the time.
They are over width and it was impressed on OIC's that they were illegal on the roads in Queensland without the said escorts.
I've had a visit to the airports not only here but also in Sydney and Melbourne and yes they are big mothers.
John.

[Disco44]

G'day Folks :)

Many years ago in Brisbane the Metropolitan Fire Brigade (MFB) used to drive LHD Macks,all equipt with a large brass bell,this even if one was driving the noiseiest of trucks would be clearly audiable, maybe it was the frequency of it, but it was much clearer than the sirens used on the Ambulances and Police cars,coupled with the fact that if you didn't get out of the way one would get a slight shove, I have seen (and followed) a Mack going to a fire at Mt.Gravatt along Logan Rd round up a tram on the wrong side, with us following in an FJ :eek:

There are people on this site that can well remember "Healey's Red Devils" ;)

All this was in an era before flashing lights and strobes, the ambulances just had one steady red/white maltese cross light above the windscreen.
cheers

You are right Uncle they had a gearbox that I think was designed by a drunken yobbo.Because they were LHD all the driver could see was the side of the road going past him rapidly and the Firie sitting on the right hand side was virtually his eyes and ears.They were Mack Thermodines,took a little time to get up speed but when they did ,they got rolling.Not all drivers were qualified drivers.One has been kept , it originally had a Bailey Ladder on it.It is used( or was used when I was still in) for Funerals and special commemorative occasions.As for the bells I think in this modern environment ( air cons on etc) they would not be heard.That was the reason Appliances in Queensland( At least) use flashing High Beam lights in the day time,and yes again a gentle nudge was more then sufficient to alert the driver in front of you that a big red truck wants right of way so get out of the way.Not used now though times have changed.
John.

[999]

I've moved on to the medium strip, pulled into the pedestrian zone at lights, and always move to the left for emergency vehicles. Even driving in HOV lane on LA motor way I've slowed and moved left towards the barrier (probably should have moved right being in the states) to let a motor cycle copper past that I could see rapidly approaching in my rear view (bear in mind I was doing 85 mph) I was greeted with a wave as he flew past.

I think today in Victoria people are so conditioned and selfish that they think the most important person on the on the road is themselves, they will not yield for anything. (especially the right lane hogs)

[CraigE]

What annoys me is not when people dont have room, that is not their fault, but when they do have room and do not move or pull out into the right lane in front of you.
Even on site, had a bus driver pull out in front of me on a mine site. The bugger sat and watched us coming from about 300metres away (station) and then waited until we were about 20metres away and pulled out causing us a 2 minute delay. Let us just say he did not work there by that afternoon.

[Disco44]

We ,in the emergency services in Queensland,have had 2 criminally prosecuted for criminal charges that I can remember.One was an Ambo in Central Qld the other was a firie in Brisbane's south west.Both were acquitted.However it made the powers to be, issue an edict that all vehicles under turnout conditions stop at Red lights and stop signs.To come to a standstill caused more problems then it was designed to eliminate.I'll explain why...To start with on all Fire Appliances in Queensland their are 3 different sounds for the siren.."The yelp" "the wailer".and one I called "star wars", I cannot remember it's official term.The idea is to try and make enough noise to warn motorists on an on-coming Emergency Vehicle.At red lights and stop signs If the vehicle came to s a complete standstill,some motorists thought that the emergency vehicle in question was stopped so that they could then resume their right of ( the motorist) and took off accordingly which more often or not resulted in the big red truck and motorist coming to grief with the motorist coming off second best.Now because of the accident one firie was taken off crew and left at the scene of the accident( standing orders).We argued with our powers to be that a complete stop was folly all that was needed was to slow down and just keep the wheels removing check that the intersection was safe and clear to cross do so and proceed.It took us a while but we convinced the powers and the order was changed.
In reply to another answer on this thread on moving through heavy traffic caused by the incident to which the Emergency Vehicle is proceeding ,is to run the middle line of the road.There is sufficient width on our modern Australian roads for the vehicle to progress. I can remember one turnout in Sydney where 3 children were reported trapped in a housefire and the responding vehicle was hindered by narrow streets with cars parked on each side.The OIC made the decision because of impending loss of life and that kids were involved to smash his way through as there was no other way.Now the kids were as reported trapped and the lot were bought out by the firies.There was a furore afterwards by the enraged car owners but the act in NSW was followed by the OIC and in a subsequent investigation he was exonerated.I think the lesson in all this is " you can be damned if you do and damned if you don't.The same as applies to Emergency Vehicles when confronted by Red lights and stop or give ways signs.Commonsense should prevail on both sides.Remember it might, one day , be you the emergency vehicle is coming to assist.
John

[MickS]

I can remember one turnout in Sydney where 3 children were reported trapped in a housefire and the responding vehicle was hindered by narrow streets with cars parked on each side.The OIC made the decision because of impending loss of life and that kids were involved to smash his way through as there was no other way.Now the kids were as reported trapped and the lot were bought out by the firies.There was a furore afterwards by the enraged car owners but the act in NSW was followed by the OIC and in a subsequent investigation he was exonerated.

That was in Newtown. Cleaned the whole street up, both sides from memory. Typical inner city street, very narrow :BigThumb: And as usual, the press had a field day :toilet:

[UncleHo]

G'day Disco44 :)

Yes, there are a couple of estates in the Caboolture area that would be similar in width, as some of the previous council's have allowed developers to build narrow streets, there is little hope of getting an appliance down them,that in turn with close proximity of houses leads to area destruction and injuries :( very similar to old inner city Sydney,they too will probably be gettos in 2089.



cheers

[mudmouse]

Emergency vehicles (Ambo's, Firies, Police, SES and RTA) have an exemption under the Road Rules so that the Road Rules don't apply. The catch is that their breach of the Rules is reasonable and they are taking care - all a bit grey, but there you go - if it was too specific life for these guys would be a nightmare, so they kept that bit simple.

If 'you' decided to breach a Rule in order to allow an Emergency vehicle pass, then that's up to you and you too have to take care and deem your action to be reasonable. So in the scenario posed, it would be fair and reasonable that the Rule (Stopping at a red light) would not apply.

IF you copped a pill from a red light camera, then your best approach would be to have a copy of the job record from the Ambo's and write away to the issuing Authority (in NSW, the State Debt Recovery Office - SDRO) seeking a caution. If this fails (they say no) then, have the matter heard before a local court. You'll have your first day (a Mention) for the matter to be 'mentioned'. This is your opportunity to tell the Magistrate 'i did it' (plea of guilty) and offer an explanation for your actions. I'd also offer the letter you sent and its reply from the SDRO and hopefully the Magistrate will pop a gasket at the insanity and have the matter dismissed.

The process is a PITA but that's the only go we have in 'camera' land. Secondly, you are required by law to move out of the path of an Emergency vehicle that is displaying red and/or blue lights whether or not it is sounding an electronic siren - so that would also be in your favour.

At the end of the day, what ever we do, for whatever reason, you are responsible for your actions when driving....you just need to be able to justify them.

As for people not moving out of their path - some (lots) don't know what to do, some freak out and can't make the decision, and some don't give a crap. Either way, the offence of 'not move out path of emergency vehicle' is rarely enforced because (for Police) they're usually on the way to an urgent job and can't stop and book the dope for not getting out of the way.

It's comforting? to hear its not just Sydney drivers....

Matt.

[Ace]

I just did the pursuit and urgent duties driver training in Goulburn just before xmas, not at all fun :angel:. We are taught that if the lights are red and there is no path through the traffic because the lights are red we turn the siren off but keep the lights flashing and as soon as the lights go green the sirens go back on and off we go. If its super urgent we have to seek permission from the Duty Officer on Police radio to cross to the wrong side of the road.

There is no requirement for you to move through the red light to let the ambulance, police or fire vehicle through. If you look both ways and there are no cars in site then by all means move to the left and let the emergency vehicle through as Mudmouse said, otherwise you wait until the light goes green and then move to the left as quick as you can.

[mudmouse]

Congratulations Matt.

It just highlights the contrast between the Legislation (Law - Road Rules) and a departmental policy. If the lights are left on, then they have to get out of the way (safely of course) and if you need to drive on the opposite side of the road to potentially save someones life, the Rules say you can, but a policy says you have to wait for a break in radio transmission, make the request, have someone in an office consider the 'risk' from the perspective of a 'desk' and get back to you to say 'ay or nay' - precious time when you're the one making the decisions based on your observations.

The Firies and Ambos don't have such a policy largely because EVERY job they respond to is urgent. I'm not critical of the policy, however it does leave some Police hamstrung and unable to, or delay the execution of their duty according to Law.

...would've been hot in Goulburn too I'd imagine.

Matt

[dullbird]

well thanks for all this clarification...as much as it pained me to say it I would not move out of the way on a red light simply because the description you have given its easier to justify not moving then it is too move.

Don't get me wrong I'm very aware of the emergency services and when I first came to OZ it really infuriated me that no bastard pulled over for them and when they did it was like a rush to be the first person to pull out jump the que and get a free sail through the traffic while driving behind them.

Big lack of respect for what you guys do if you ask me.
in the UK you only have to hear (not see) and people are already pulling over. I guess the problem in the UK is though the roads are so narrow if they didn't they would never get through but at least the people in the UK respect that they pull out in exact same position as what they pulled in at:(

[Ace]

the Rules say you can, but a policy says you have to wait for a break in radio transmission, make the request, have someone in an office consider the 'risk' from the perspective of a 'desk' and get back to you to say 'ay or nay' - precious time when you're the one making the decisions based on your observations.

By which time the light is green anyway :mad: Stupid really.

[Ace]

Don't get me wrong I'm very aware of the emergency services and when I first came to OZ it really infuriated me that no bastard pulled over for them and when they did it was like a rush to be the first person to pull out jump the que and get a free sail through the traffic while driving behind them.

Big lack of respect for what you guys do if you ask me.
in the UK you only have to hear (not see) and people are already pulling over. I guess the problem in the UK is though the roads are so narrow if they didn't they would never get through but at least the people in the UK respect that they pull out in exact same position as what they pulled in at:(

If you think its infuriating, imaging how we feel on a daily basis. It is frustrating. When people hear the sirens and see the lights they freeze, thats if they arent suffering from tunnel vision and dont hear or see us at all. I personally think that using an Ipod or MP3 player with the earphones when you are driving, like I see more and more these days, should be illegal. how can people hear whats going on around them? Driving has alot to do with what you can see but part of being a good driver is using your other senses aswell, in particularly your hearing. Taste isnt so usefull :D. I was going code red behind an ambulance who was also code red, the car moved over for the ambulance and the minute it passed she moved over on me nearly pushing me into oncoming traffic. Regardless of the situation if she had done a head check and used her mirrors she would have seen me.

[Disco44]

I was going code red behind an ambulance who was also code red, the car moved over for the ambulance and the minute it passed she moved over on me nearly pushing me into oncoming traffic. Regardless of the situation if she had done a head check and used her mirrors she would have seen me.[/QUOTE]
The number of times this type of thing happens is mind boggling.In a Fire Truck the OIC sits on the front left next to the driver.Which is hard enough as he does not have a steering wheel and foot pedals (LOL) even though you go looking for them in sticky situations.Many a time my driver would say to me." you can open your eyes Boss we somehow missed that stupid bastard" Also another problem that was always in the back of your mind was the reports about reports that the OIC and the driver had to produce because the Big Red Truck was involved.Police and AMBO's will appreciate that.Another thing I was unaware of is that SES had that right of way. only vehicles with blue and red lights have the power under the ACT ( in Qld anyway) which applies to the traffic Act not the criminal code as I have pointed out previously.Drivers should realise why we are using our warning systems and also realise that we too love life and would like it to stay that way.

[Ace]

I was going code red behind an ambulance who was also code red, the car moved over for the ambulance and the minute it passed she moved over on me nearly pushing me into oncoming traffic. Regardless of the situation if she had done a head check and used her mirrors she would have seen me.
The number of times this type of thing happens is mind boggling.In a Fire Truck the OIC sits on the front left next to the driver.Which is hard enough as he does not have a steering wheel and foot pedals (LOL) even though you go looking for them in sticky situations.Many a time my driver would say to me." you can open your eyes Boss we somehow missed that stupid bastard" Also another problem that was always in the back of your mind was the reports about reports that the OIC and the driver had to produce because the Big Red Truck was involved.Police and AMBO's will appreciate that.Another thing I was unaware of is that SES had that right of way. only vehicles with blue and red lights have the power under the ACT ( in Qld anyway) which applies to the traffic Act not the criminal code as I have pointed out previously.Drivers should realise why we are using our warning systems and also realise that we too love life and would like it to stay that way.[/QUOTE]

Its not hard to move as far left as safely possible. if you cant clear the road way for what ever reason, maintain speed and keep as far to the left as possible until you reach a spot where you can move over. To many people panic in a situation where simple common sense should prevail. Sadly it often doesnt.

[THE BOOGER]

A question about what is an emergency vehical under the act when was the RTA give reds and blues I know its only in the last few years they used to and still do have purple light bars on inspectors cars, can they respond like the "real" emergency services?

[MickS]

A question about what is an emergency vehical under the act when was the RTA give reds and blues I know its only in the last few years they used to and still do have purple light bars on inspectors cars, can they respond like the "real" emergency services?

No....that is, AFAIK, they activate them when they set up roadside vehicle inspection stations. They are not an emergency vehicle. Same as these..

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/94/RTA_TEP_unit_Sydney.jpg

Can be used for traffic diversion with lights activated etc..but not as an emergency vehicle when it comes to driving contrary to the road rules...

[THE BOOGER]

There is a large depot at yennora with "traffic emergency" trucks with reds and blues they turn out when lights are damaged or set up detoures around accidents the inspectors still have the purple light bars:( I agree with Police ,fire and ambos even the SES in some instances but fixing traffic lights is not what I would call an emergency if they give them to everybody them people will not take them as seriously as they need to:)

edit: was typing when you posted the pic thems the trucks and there is a larger one as well

[Disco44]

There is a large depot at yennora with "traffic emergency" trucks with reds and blues they turn out when lights are damaged or set up detoures around accidents the inspectors still have the purple light bars:( I agree with Police ,fire and ambos even the SES in some instances but fixing traffic lights is not what I would call an emergency if they give them to everybody them people will not take them as seriously as they need to:)

edit: was typing when you posted the pic thems the trucks and there is a larger one as well

Up here mate they would have purple lights and the same with amber,they are not classed as emergency vehicles under the act.
John.

[George130]

I have only failed to give way once. That was because I saw the house fire on a turning to the left at the same time the cop appeard. Choice was simple pull over and stop him getting through or put my foot down till past the street he clearly wanted so I chose the later.
I have watched rural fire units with the lights flashing on the freeway fail to catch up with me for several km's till I turn of. Again no point pulling over for them when they are under the speed limit and clearly doing long distance runs.

[Treads]

I have watched rural fire units with the lights flashing on the freeway fail to catch up with me for several km's till I turn of. Again no point pulling over for them when they are under the speed limit and clearly doing long distance runs.

That's because all the new Category 1 Isuzu 4x4's are speed limited to 107Kph :censored:

Our Hino Pumper is not...... :twisted: :wasntme:

[Disco44]

I have only failed to give way once. That was because I saw the house fire on a turning to the left at the same time the cop appeard. Choice was simple pull over and stop him getting through or put my foot down till past the street he clearly wanted so I chose the later.
I have watched rural fire units with the lights flashing on the freeway fail to catch up with me for several km's till I turn of. Again no point pulling over for them when they are under the speed limit and clearly doing long distance runs.

Common sense by the Rural boys should prevail here .They should turn off the lights etc until they can get up to speed.

[CraigE]

The question was asked about purple lights being used, They are RTA and recognised and can be used to pull vehicles over but they are not emergency lighting for response and have no validation in an emergency. Some of them will run combination LEDs now. Red/Blue/White or combinations of or individual colours are emergency lights. There are also green lights that dont get used much any more for clearing stations at an emergency scene.

[MickS]

The question was asked about purple lights being used, They are RTA and recognised and can be used to pull vehicles over but they are not emergency lighting for response and have no validation in an emergency. Some of them will run combination LEDs now. Red/Blue/White or combinations of or individual colours are emergency lights. There are also green lights that dont get used much any more for clearing stations at an emergency scene.

In NSW, the RTA vehicle inspectors have the power to pull over trucks...anything over 4.5 tonne I think. Not cars.

If they were following me and tried to pull me over, I would politely wave :2up: and continue, as they have no stop and detain powers. Unless, as part of an environmental enforcement (modified vehicle enthusiasts) operation, a police officer pulls you over..then they, or an EPA inspector, have the power to inspect your vehicle. It may happen that they record my number and send me a letter to have it inspected though.

The oscar crews...the transit vans etc similar to above, cannot exceed the posted speed limit, nor chase. Their siren (and lights) can be activated if attending an MVA, so a path can be cleared. Again, they cannot exceed the speed limit. If stuck in traffic, it's siren off and wait.

[Ace]

Common sense by the Rural boys should prevail here .They should turn off the lights etc until they can get up to speed.

Or only use them when the traffic is going slower than they can travel at.

Had a vehicle fire on the highway today, they were going code red at 80km/h with cars overtaking them. Not really much point in having them on. They are only used to let vehicles know they need to move over, if the traffic is going faster than them why bother?

[Bushie]

There are also green lights that dont get used much any more for clearing stations at an emergency scene.

Green lights should be designating a command post and only be displayed on a stationary vehicle.


Martyn

[Ace]

Green lights should be designating a command post and only be displayed on a stationary vehicle.


Martyn

Thats right Bushie, NSW police still use them, the Duty Officers vehicle has one in it for use in these situations. We just did the mandatory lectures on this.

[CraigE]

In NSW, the RTA vehicle inspectors have the power to pull over trucks...anything over 4.5 tonne I think. Not cars.

If they were following me and tried to pull me over, I would politely wave :2up: and continue, as they have no stop and detain powers. Unless, as part of an environmental enforcement (modified vehicle enthusiasts) operation, a police officer pulls you over..then they, or an EPA inspector, have the power to inspect your vehicle. It may happen that they record my number and send me a letter to have it inspected though.

The oscar crews...the transit vans etc similar to above, cannot exceed the posted speed limit, nor chase. Their siren (and lights) can be activated if attending an MVA, so a path can be cleared. Again, they cannot exceed the speed limit. If stuck in traffic, it's siren off and wait.
RTA can actually pull over any vehicle and check them for weight and compliance, my Father used to be RTA. Though generally they will only stick to heavy vehicles.

[CraigE]

Green lights should be designating a command post and only be displayed on a stationary vehicle.


Martyn
Termed a clearing station or command post in WA, generally not used over here any more. I know there was discussion a year or two ago about abolishing them in WA altogether, I dont think that has happened yet, so they still can be used.
The only time I have actually seen them used is at Hazmat emergencies for decontamination zones.

[pando]

Hi Guys,

Personally, I pull over no matter what. I make sure my intentions are very clear (a carry over from the yachtie days) and make the clearest route possible for the RED AND BLUE disco lights, after checking it's safe of course.

To be honest, weather it's a red light camera intersection or not wouldn't even factor into my decision to move aside, to the point where I don't take it into account even in normal day to day driving.

If i got fined I'd cop it sweet, and fight the good fight later on knowing I'd possibly helped some one.

[Disco44]

RTA can actually pull over any vehicle and check them for weight and compliance, my Father used to be RTA. Though generally they will only stick to heavy vehicles.

Not in Queensland they cannot.They need real coppers on site and they do the pulling over.I understand that to be the same in NSW.

[MickS]

RTA can actually pull over any vehicle and check them for weight and compliance, my Father used to be RTA. Though generally they will only stick to heavy vehicles.

Not in NSW.